Engine Build

[TraV8]

Hello To All

I have a 04 MM with an Eaton supercharger and everything that goes along. It has a stock bottom end and tranny.
Unconditionally this past spring the motor got a knock :violin: so the car has been sitting since. I am pulling to motor out next weekend and starting to pull the engine apart.

My thoughts at this point were to rebuild the bottom end with good parts. Build the tranny. Convert the car to E-85; run the same blower for now.

What are your thoughts? What parts would you recommend the the bottom end?

[RubberCtyRauder]

Cobra block, forged crank, rods and pistons

[95chickn]

Cobra block, forged crank, rods and pistons

Do you have to use a cobra block? MM block with forged internals wouldn't cut it? Ask because I was planning a boost build and planned to use Aviator block

[Zack]

You don't need an iron block

[cer0413]

Do you have to use a cobra block? MM block with forged internals wouldn't cut it? Ask because I was planning a boost build and planned to use Aviator block
You're probably goin to spend more rebuilding the original MM engine with the necessities that Rubb mentioned. Locating a low mileage cobra engine would be your cheapest route (my opinion). I know a couple of high boost guys using these.

[RubberCtyRauder]

I only mentioned it as alot choose that route. Mine is the marauder block, but it was purchased this way.

Zack, what is the limits for marauder block and the marauder crank? I think the weak link is the rods/pistons?

[Red Rum]

RubberCtyRauder is correct. A Terminator Cobra block is the right way to go. Those bitten ends. Are pretty much Bullet proof. Or if your budget allows you. Get a Boss 323 block stroker. My cousin put one of those. In his 04 2 valve GT. With TFS heads and a big Kenny Bell. And it has me very impressed. With how it is running. And the amount of boost it is taking. Or you can go on a budget and get a Cobra crank. And some nice aftermarket rods. Because I believe those are the weak spots. In our 4.6 Mercury Marauder motors. Either way Good Luck with the process.

[TraV8]

Would i be better off with just buying a short block?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6009-b53
OR
http://www.mhpengines.com/46_shortblock

[RubberCtyRauder]

what are your rwhp goals and planned use of car? the more hp you go the more other mods you need, trans, suspension, brakes, drivetrain,

What is your estimated budget or hopes of budget? $5k, 10, 15?

[TraV8]

I wanted to stay under 8K
650 RWHP is probably the most i will ever go.
I would need a different blower to get there. I was going to try and reuse the Eaton M112 that i have on it now.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Youll need more than $8k to get to 650 rwhp. You can use the eaton but it is prolly maxing out in the 450 -470 or so range depending on pulley combination. I'm basing that on my trilogy at 455, but could have been closer to 480 but that was pushing the tune, plus injectors and fuel pump are near max. The short block you posted is $5500 without internals..you'll blow past $8k in no time. A 2.9 or greater blower will be needed and those are $4k. plus then you will need add in brakes, trans mods etc..

My information is not golden, just going onmy observations of what people have here. Some more replies from those in the know will be needed to assess it fully.

[TraV8]

Without internals?

[Zack]

I only mentioned it as alot choose that route. Mine is the marauder block, but it was purchased this way.

Zack, what is the limits for marauder block and the marauder crank? I think the weak link is the rods/pistons?

There is no limit to the aluminum block. I'm pretty sure there are still no documented failures to this date.

The cast Marauder crank has been known to hold 600rwhp or more.

[RubberCtyRauder]

$8k using your block I see as very probable, but not for 650 Rwhp. Ask Jerry, Darren, Cwright, Zack, justbob, anyone with 600+ Rwhp their costs to get there

[Zack]

Built engine: $3500 and up
Blower to get you to 650rwhp: About $3500 and up
Fuel system: $800-1000
Trans/Converter to handle it: $2500
Dyno Tuning: $500
Odds and Ends: Usually a LOT

[TraV8]

Zack
What would you recommend that i get the existing engine built or go with a short block?

[Zack]

Zack
What would you recommend that i get the existing engine built or go with a short block?

It's always a great idea to have a good running engine in the corner of the garage. Also less down time by having a spare engine built.

[MOTOWN]

Rebuild your aluminum block thats in the car with forged pistons, and forged rods , you do not need an iron block, and the stock crank is good for 600+ hp , and a stroker motor is a total waste of money.

[TraV8]

Is there a good book or documentation for this engine rebuild that you would recommend?
Or just pay someone to rebuild it.
I have never rebuilt a motor before not to say i can't learn but.....

[Zack]

Is there a good book or documentation for this engine rebuild that you would recommend?
Or just pay someone to rebuild it.
I have never rebuilt a motor before not to say i can't learn but.....

Do you have an engine block boring machine? A machine to deck the heads?
A machine to re-surface the valve seats?
A crank cutter?

The fact you even asked this question is scary. I suggest you get very educated before spending your money with the wrong people, or on the wrong parts

[TraV8]

Do they sell that stuff at Home Depot.... Kidding

I know i would have to get machining done elsewhere i was just saying assembly.
Where would be the best place to educate myself on the right parts? That was the intent of this post.

[fastblackmerc]

I have this book https://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Build_Max_Performance_4 _6_Liter_F.html?id=G_xnXEB3Q7k C

[RubberCtyRauder]

Motown knows

[Spectragod]

$8k using your block I see as very probable, but not for 650 Rwhp. Ask Jerry, Darren, Cwright, Zack, justbob, anyone with 600+ Rwhp their costs to get there

Mine only cost me pennies a day, if broken down over 40 years, but that's what I tell the wife.:D

[WPG_Merc]

:bows: Great Advice :bows:
I also plan to rebuild my block in a year or so but up to 500HP Adding 100 or 125 NOS shots. :rolleyes:

[Ourobos]

I'm building a short block right now. Stock WAP block, Cobra crank, Cobra rods, ARP 2000 bolts, Wiseco Pistons, all ARP studs, new rings bearings etc. Sourcing parts I have $2300 in PARTS. Machine shop costs should run me about $1000 on the low end as well. Zack's $3500 was spot on.

[RacerX]

If you really feel like reading, here's a list: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84637&highlight=books

[Bradley G]

Mine went something like this;
2700.00 Cobra Longblock used (was told it was good running condition)
Truck rental and expenses to Louisville Kentucky to retrieve It. 500.00 (gas wasn't < 1.50)
Towing ( 3X's) storage, 700.00
Rebuilding charges 4025.00 (heads and complete timing set)ARP studs, bearings , etc.
Parts for motor upgrades Including missing pieces , parts
Spare tire , bolts, bolts , bolts.


Upgraded;
injectors, MAF, water pump , 7 qt.oil pan,
starter, battery, belts, flexplate,hard bolts, gaskets, fluids, Tensioner, gauges, bung labor,
I'll take a, w a g @ 3500.00 , prolly way more!
Mechanical
Labor & tuner labor, 2 start up tunes,
SCT 4 flasher, 3000.00
Someone add it up for me (squinting)

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[justbob]

Built engine: $3500 and up
Blower to get you to 650rwhp: About $3500 and up
Fuel system: $800-1000
Trans/Converter to handle it: $2500
Dyno Tuning: $500
Odds and Ends: Usually a LOT


Now just add 30% and cross your fingers.

Do you really need 650? I only ask as my 93 tune is only 588 and even with all the goodies on my car it gets STUPID really quick! I know the manual trans creates a good deal of the power transfer, but even the right converter on an auto will pin you flat in the seat at any speed.

You should build the block with what your budget allows and just get it drivable again. Then come to Louisville in April and take plenty of test drives in all ranges of power.

There is a world of difference in 450-550, three worlds from 450-650..


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[TraV8]

No i definitely don't need 650 HP, right now anyways... But the cost difference for building a motor that will handle the difference in powers are minimal. The labor is whats expensive. i just figured do it right the first time.
Right now i'm leaning towards just buying a short block from mmr.

[TraV8]

When building a motor is it nessisary to rebuild or replace anything to do with the timing chain?

[Ourobos]

I agree with your philosophy, do it once and do it right. If I'm digging into the bottom end of my engine, I'm upgrading it.

Always upgrade / refresh the timing components, it's cheap insurance and if yours has 100k or more on it, it's probably time anyways.