Deja Vu? with the GTO.

[2005Marauder]

"The Pontiac GTO, a pet project of General Motors product czar Robert Lutz, is off to a slow start. Dealers say the GTO - touted as a halo car for Pontiac - suffers from bland styling, a high sticker price and no incentives. So far this year, Pontiac has sold just 2,451 units. Discounting seasonal differences, that amounts to an annualized rate of 7,300 units - well below Pontiac's 16,000-unit target."

Sounds like they didn't learn from the MM introduction.

[jerrym3]

And the TBird.

[Racerx88]

No wonder I've only seen 1 on the road since they started arriving at the dealers. And it was a dealer demo.

[duhtroll]

I see one just about every day for months now.

It's the same fugly yellow one sitting on the dealer's lot.

All this WITH the loads of advertising they have poured into it.

Now if I can just get my car into the 13s so I can compete with one my life will be complete. Help me out, TooManyFords!

I don't need to beat one. I just need the race to be close enough for me to show them how much they wasted their money on the GTO.

Actually, I don't give drivers around here enough credit to handle the manual tranny well enough, so I might even win.

-A

[2003 MIB]

No wonder I've only seen 1 on the road since they started arriving at the dealers. And it was a dealer demo.

We ran with a silver one at TMS. It wasn't ugly but it looked plain- I really thought it was a Grand Prix until I was right next to it. If I've seen them on the road, I'm not sure I knew what it was....

[muslhed]

They look like an over-inflated Cavalier from the rear and side, and a Grand Prix from the front! Aside from ther power, I don't like it at all. The ones I see every day are still collecting dust at the dealerships.

[stevengerard]

in my opinion it just isn't a mean American muscle car. It may in fact have been what GM calls the real evolution of the GTO. But I believe that's BS, look at how the last Firebirds and Camero's looked. I wouldn't have bought either of those myself but certainly appreciated them and felt they were emblematic of the muscle cars of yesterday. It sounds as if the new GTO offers a lot, but to me its just that it looks like a Honda Prelude or any of the other compacts. It doesn't differentiate itself enough and is too small for those of us who dreamed of owning one of the original ones. Beleive me if the MM came out with as much spunk as Ford promissed there would be more of them sold.

[BillyGman]

I absolutely agree w/Steven on all points. Even if you gave me a new GTO, I'd simply sell it in order to buy a second Marauder. The GTO has that same lame jelly bean/egg shape to it that most cars today have. Can you say "UGLY"??? I wouldn't care if it was an 11 second car that sold for 15K. I still wouldn't buy one because of how lame the body style looks.

[dwasson]

One of the problems with marketing Marauders and GTOs is that "Halo Cars" lose their effect if they are too widely sold. Who wants a "Halo Car" that you pass 10 times per day. One of the fun things about the Marauder is that seeing another one on the road gives your whole day a little lift. Unless it's that forest green POS with the 22" spinners and all of the extra crap stuck on it. That one is just wrong.

[Silver_04]

Another problem with the GTO is that the Crocodile Hunter is the parts guy. I considered one for about a week but having to wait three weeks or more for parts from down under didn't appeal to me. I would hope that a lot of people take that into consideration before purchase.

[MENINBLK]

A BIG problem with the GTO is the Gas Guzzler Tax...

Most dealerships have ordered Automatic GTOs which are subject to the GG Tax.
The 6 speed didn't qualify for the extra fee...

The GG Tax adds $1,000 to the price of the GTO.

[TripleTransAm]

The GTO's biggest problem, in my opinion, is CONFUSION.

The car is marketed towards the MUSCLE car crowd, and in my opinion has the guts to back up that claim. However, the styling is SO bland it's frightening... I used to think I could look beyond the optical boredom, but to be honest I couldn't be less interested in any magazine with a new GTO on its cover.

Truth be told, I used to feel the same way about Pontiac's new-for-1982 Trans Am and it took another 4 years before a red 1986 Trans Am on the cover of a High Performance Pontiac magazine reignited my interest in the car (in a big way, I might add). There will have to be some significant emphasis on visual design if this car is ever going to interest me.

To be perfectly honest, I do adore the drivetrain enough (in 6 speed guise) to consider owning one of these, but with styling like this it would only be as a commuter car (albeit a kick-a$$ one). I certainly wouldn't feel like taking it to a musclecar cruise, if only to satisfy curious passers-by.

Lutz himself said 3 things sell cars: design design and design. Unfortunately, the marketing department must have been out on a group retreat at the time he said this, because the wires are certainly crossed when it comes to the car's target audience. I still believe it could teach BMW a thing or two about performance coupes but I think they're scaring off that potential market with their advertising approach.

[Merc-O-matic]

Give 'em hell Billy G.

Gotta Love It! :bounce:

[2005Marauder]

I don't even know what a new GTO looks like! Guess I'll check it out. At my age, buying a GTO would be like reliving my childhood. I hung out with the GTO, Shelby Mustang, RoadRunner, Barracuda, Doge R/T 440 six-pack, Olds 442, Chevy 427 Impala, crowds in High School. One of my buddies dad was the GM at the Plymouth dealership and they'd let us drive the demos on the weekends to show them off. I drove a big-bad 428cid, which is about 7.0 liters, '67 Pontiac Executive that I traded with my Uncle on the Weekends. He had a '69 Burnt-Orange Hemi RoadRunner with a white convertible top with nearly 500 hp. He'd take my Pontiac to Dallas because it had A/C and I'd run around town stomping everybody. My uncle was a week-end track racer and his buddies ran a speed shop. Had too many close calls in those High-performance cars. I wanted that car real bad but the insurance was way too much.

After I left town and joined the Navy the first car I bought was a 6 banger Mercury Comet GT complete with hood scoop and chrome wheels. It looked bad but was a wimp--top-end was 80 m.p.h down a mountain in Idaho. Getting married and having kids tempered my need for speed.

P.S. No one, including GTOs, every beat my Uncle's '69 RoadRunner.

[junehhan]

The problem as I see it, is that the new GTO doesn't look like what you might expect the next generation GTO to look like. GM seems to have a serious problem with this, as they screw cars up a LOT by doing this. It looks like a cheap rental car, and that's bad since people in the market for a car like that often want something that looks unique. GM has started airing GTO commercials on FOX, so who knows what will happen. When you look at the upcoming Mustang, it looks like what you would expect the next generation Mustang to look like. Ford unlike GM, didn't make it look like some cheap rental car by giving it a unique design.

[Amsoil_Dealer]

One of the fun things about the Marauder is that seeing another one on the road gives your whole day a little lift.

I agree with this point. Marauders really do turn my head.... I guess I also agree about the mundane look of the GTO. They are hard to tell apart from Pontiac's other cars. Pontiac will probably change this with a wheel package, decal package, bolt on scoop, etc. (as they did the 80's-90's Trans Ams, Formulas) and eventually attract the crowd they want. The numbers on this car are too hot for it to fade away.

I like the concept of the car and I really enjoyed Speed's "Test Drive" show. with the economy still down, and gas prices skyrocketing, it seems like a poor time to introduce an expensive, gas guzzling muscle car to the market. They will eventually sell.

At 47, I was also from the era that 2005 Marauder describes. I had a 68 Pontiac LeMans convertible and while it was a very nice car, I wished it were a GTO so bad. At that age I could not understand why a GTO could be sooo much faster with only 50 more cubic inches. My 350, 2 bbl, 2 speed power glide, and probably a 2.73 gear or so what such a PIG relative to the GTO. It looked good and sounded good (I installed rally wheels and GTO duals) but I shyed away from stoplight drags.

Don

[rookie1]

Read an article somewhere , maybe in Crains that GM can make a good profit on this vehicle even in low numbers due to currency valuations and production costs being cheaper down under. If it flops like the Allante look for huge discounts.

[duhtroll]

The less popular the car, the more obnoxious and desperate the salesmen are.

After I got home yesterday I decided to go drive the GTO. I like to know our competition, hence the reason I drove the 300C and will drive the Magnum at some point. I have this need "to know" (insert your own comparison language here). Besides, I was looking at 4 cars before I bought the MM. The Subaru WRX (tiny, TINY econobox), the 300C (promo pics made me vomit), and the GTO (if it were bigger and not so ugly I would probably own one instead of the MM).

I call the dealership to find out what kind of tranny is in the fugly yellow GTO that I drive by every day for the last 8 weeks or so. I am on hold for 15 minutes. I could have driven up there, looked, and been back just as fast. (I did not because I was looking for an auto tranny - personal reasons - and going up there to be hassled if I don't even want to drive it was out of the question).

When I finally get him on the phone, he sounds annoyed that someone would even be asking. I'm also annoyed at this point at having to wait to ask a simple question.

Me: "I just need to know how many GTOs you have on the lot and what kind of transmissions they have."

"Curt": "Well we have a new yellow one with a 6-speed in it but I'm not sure that's still here. Some guy was really into that hot and heavy this afternoon and I'm not sure he brought it back so you may be out of luck."

(NOTE: I had just driven by the dealership on my way home from work, and the goat was sitting in the exact same spot it was before - out on the lawn in front of the dealership. They either had to drive it over a large curb to get it into the street, or move several cars behind it. I surmise that the car had not moved since at least Friday.)

Me: "Really? The one that has been on your lot for at least a month? That's a shame. I was interested in taking a look at it. Guess I won't be doing that." <click>

WHY are sales people such a****les? I know this is only one person at one dealership, but I am running into this everywhere I go. The guy did not know me, had no idea what my intentions were, and he had dismissed me before he had even spoken to me about anything. Then the first thing out of his mouth is an outright lie. It's a wonder this dealership ever sells a car.

I'll go to the other Pontiac dealerships in the area for this purpose I guess. Who knows? My wife will need a new car sometime, and she likes smaller cars. Too bad we have to include a salesperson somewhere in the mix.

Thanks -rant over.

-A

[QWK SVT]

Let me start by saying that I personally do not like the new GTO looks... The fact that they are not willing to sell them, this side of the border precludes me from ever actually sitting in, or driving one.

Having said that, I find it funny how the new GTO is getting so much flak about looking too much like the other Pontiac models and not being aggressive enough, yet that is the history behind the car. Hell, all Pontiacs look pretty much the same, regardless of model. The original GTO looked just like its to other Pontiac models of the time, and didn't really get styling to set it apart until '68.

Personally, any RWD V8 is welcomed in the market... Even though I'm not a huge fan of the styling of the GTO, it may help bring some other V8 RWD cars out, from the other manufacturers.

[2003 MIB]

The fact that they are not willing to sell them, this side of the border precludes me from ever actually sitting in, or driving one.

I'm shocked- I thought all North American cars were the same. Do we have other cars in the US that y'all can't have or do you have cars we can't have?
I don't mean to derail the thread- I find this very interesting...

[Dr Caleb]

I'm shocked- I thought all North American cars were the same. Do we have other cars in the US that y'all can't have or do you have cars we can't have?
I don't mean to derail the thread- I find this very interesting...

There are a few. Ford GT comes to mind. Mitsubishi only recently started selling cars in Canada. Quite a bit of the high end stuff is hard to find or even import - Bently, Lotus etc.

It's not that we *can't* have them, it that some models don't come with requirements for Canada, speedo in KM/H, daytime running lights for example. The GTO I assume was built for the US market, so it most likely doesn't have the speedo in KM/H or daytime running lights. The speedo would be easy, as the car is made by Holden in Australlia, so they most likely had to make a new Speedo for the US market, but I don't know the AU laws on DTR's.

I think we have some that aren't for sale in the US. The <a href='http://www.thesmart.ca/'>Smart Car</a> comes to mind, but it should be available in the US in 2006.

Edit:

Forgot to add, this doesn't apply to only cars. XM radio for example is illegal in Canada, along with DirectTV, TiVo's etc. Not because Canada bans them, but because the US government refuses to export them.

[Silver_04]

GM puts DTR's on all of its cars in the US.

[2003 MIB]

The car stuff was amazing- I'll be filing that under "things I never thought about before" but it all makes sense.
The XM radio, DirectTV, TiVo's etc...the US government refuses to export them...Doesn't make sense- more market, more dollars, right? I respect Logan's political discussion ban so if the answer has to do with the political relationship betwwen our two countries... let's let it lay...Thanks for the info though, you may have sparked me to do some independant research.

[Silver_04]

Are we sure Tivo, Direct TV, XM and the GTO aren't in Canada because the companies don't want to invest in getting the necessary government approvals instead of the US gov't blocking companies from selling outside the US? With the first three companies there are all of the FCC regulations that have to be abided by. Companies have to pay for those certifications. As for the GTO, there is NHTSA, EPA and who knows who else GM has to pay to certify the car (it's why we don't see all of the engine/gear/transimssion combinations from back in the day). I'm sure Canada has government bodies that perform much the same functions as those aforementioned US ones so for low volume products it probably doesn't make sense to the manufacturers to pay for further qualifications outside the US.

[TripleTransAm]

Forgot to add, this doesn't apply to only cars. XM radio for example is illegal in Canada, along with DirectTV, TiVo's etc. Not because Canada bans them, but because the US government refuses to export them.

Not correct... we don't have access to these because the CRTC is controlling what we are permitted to have access to. DirecTV does not carry enough (any?) Canadian programming to satisfy Canadian content requirements, and I suspect the same thing applies to XM radio. As for TiVo, I believe Bell ExpressVu has a similar product available (as well as some digital cable providers), it's just that TiVo itself is a DirecTV-specific item (and hence the lack of availability).

I'm not TOTALLY against the idea, just how it's being implemented. It's unfortunately a quick-patch type of solution when trying to deal with avoiding cultural assimiliation. Our friends south of the border will understand if I provide a parallel situation: imagine the average family in a Southern state (Florida, Texas, Louisiana, etc.) being provided with TV programming consisting of 50 Mexico-based spanish channels and only 1 or 2 english-speaking US-based channels. The level of frustration over the outcome would be understandable.

[2003 MIB]

Our friends south of the border will understand if I provide a parallel situation: imagine the average family in a Southern state (Florida, Texas, Louisiana, etc.) being provided with TV programming consisting of 50 Mexico-based spanish channels and only 1 or 2 english-speaking US-based channels. The level of frustration over the outcome would be understandable.

NOW, I get it...Okay, a common language doesn't really mean a common culture...A couple more ignorant questions- if y'all would indulge me: Do Canadian TV broadcasts have French subtitles for Quebec? If there a certain amount of regulated French language in radio broadcasts?

[TripleTransAm]

Having said that, I find it funny how the new GTO is getting so much flak about looking too much like the other Pontiac models and not being aggressive enough, yet that is the history behind the car. Hell, all Pontiacs look pretty much the same, regardless of model.


I might get flak myself over this... but consider that maybe at the time of the original GTOs, other Pontiac models were attractive to begin with? ;)

Styling is subjective, to be sure. In my case, even though I think the '64 Tempest wasn't the sexiest thing on the block, it was still a trim handsome little package that looked even better with some GTO-specific items (blacked out grille, fake hood scoops, twin exhaust outlets w/ splitters, fancier wheels, nice taillight treatment). And yes, you're right that there was a divisional "look" that was shared... the traditional (since the late late 50s) split grille and basic proportions and body panel shapes. And performance.

And even when the GTO sort of split off the main Pontiac path in the late 60s, the rest of the Pontiac crop (not counting the A-bodies) was pretty horrible looking (of course, once again in my humble opinion)... the '67-'68 Grand Prix still scares me when I look at one, and the Bonnevilles of those years were fairly frightening until the early-mid 70s.

Nowadays, when you've got the Bonneville looking edgy (especially in the newer cleaner GXP look), and the new Grand Prix looking rather futuristic and angled, and the upcoming G6 Grand Am-replacement.... and then all of a sudden there is this really plain-looking Cavalier-like thing stuffed with 350hp of darling engine. WTF?? A year or two ago, the GTO might have integrated more seamlessly with the Pontiac fold, but it seems the "lesser" models have gotten the jump on the big Goat styling-wise.

Let's think about it... size notwithstanding, if we were to imagine the GTO emblem on what is today known as the Bonneville GXP (and imagining it as a RWD instead), wouldn't it seem just a little more appropriate-looking?

[TripleTransAm]

NOW, I get it...Okay, a common language doesn't really mean a common culture...A couple more ignorant questions- if y'all would indulge me: Do Canadian TV broadcasts have French subtitles for Quebec? If there a certain amount of regulated French language in radio broadcasts?


No subtitles unless it's originally-english material being played on a french-language TV station and there was no overdubbed version available. Think of all those alternate-language settings on the commercial DVDs you purchase... that's what gets played on TV stations of that country (and film theaters too). Smokey and the Bandit played a heck of a lot more often on French TV stations in the 80s, and I almost knew the dialogue by heart... imagine my surprise when I selected the french-language version on my recently-purchased DVD and heard that familiar soundtrack!

No subtitles on french radio here, either, by the way... ;)

I'm not sure about french language regulations, but I do notice that some obscure listening hours (ie. Sunday night at 9pm, etc.) on french-language pop stations seem to play more of the obscure french pop... the more popular big-name french pop/rock gets airplay with all the rest of the english material, but I think it still doesn't meet some predetermined minimum content, so they have to lop all this extra stuff somewhere, just to meet the requirement.

Some stations (english or french) even resort to hour-long weekly "Made in Canada" type programs that focus on up-and-coming Canadian bands, etc.

Yep... common language does not necessarily mean common culture. I drove across Canada in late 2000 (from Montreal to the edge of BC, stayed in Edmonton for a few days, then back down the Rockies through Calgary and back home) and it was a real eye-opener... made me a little more sensitive to the concerns and viewpoints of a Canadian living 3 time zones away from me. Coupled with my previous trek to Nova Scotia, I realized our greatest unifying strength lies in our diversity.

[dwasson]

It's unfortunately a quick-patch type of solution when trying to deal with avoiding cultural assimiliation.

Two points come to mind.

One, we were driving around Lake Superior and stopped for the night in Wawa ON. The motel TV had a cable feed that included the US network affiliates from Detroit. Eek! Imagine sitting in Wawa and listening to the reports of murders and other mayhem from Detroit. That will keep the kids home!

Two, I guess I understand the Canadian Content laws have a purpose for you. But, what did the US ever do to Canada that was bad enough to make you export Gino Vanelli?

[2003 MIB]

I guess I understand the Canadian Content laws have a purpose for you. But, what did the US ever do to Canada that was bad enough to make you export Gino Vanelli?


We let Tina Turner duet with Bryan Adams and released that South Park movie.

[TripleTransAm]

Two, I guess I understand the Canadian Content laws have a purpose for you. But, what did the US ever do to Canada that was bad enough to make you export Gino Vanelli?


Easy... revenge for Captain and Tennille.

[2003 MIB]

Easy... revenge for Captain and Tennille.

OH! THAT'S HOW IT IS?!?!? YOU GRUDGE HOLDIN' HOCKEY LOVIN' DOUGHNUT MUNCHERS!!! You are aware that this nation has issued numerous formal apologies for the export of the Captain and Tennille. It was certainly the darkest time in our history and no one can defend the vile nature of our past-we have wallowed in our collective shame and we are a better people for having survived!! :mad2: :mad2:

[Dr Caleb]

Not correct... we don't have access to these because the CRTC is controlling what we are permitted to have access to. DirecTV does not carry enough (any?) Canadian programming to satisfy Canadian content requirements, and I suspect the same thing applies to XM radio. As for TiVo, I believe Bell ExpressVu has a similar product available (as well as some digital cable providers), it's just that TiVo itself is a DirecTV-specific item (and hence the lack of availability).


From what I rememeber of the tech rags at the time, I had the understanding that Direct TV and later XM radio had strong encryption that was not exportable under US law. Express Vue does have a really snazzy PVR function, but it's not as easily hackable as the TiVo, and complies with recording laws - ie if I record a movie, timeshifting that movie is only for a set period - 24 hours or so. Not sure why Tivo isn't here, might just be lack of market . .

But the lack of Canadian content makes sense. It must be a similar reason that Fox news isn't allowed here ethier (too many news channels already).

Not to say you can't Get XM and Direct TV here, you just have to go through a 3rd party in the States as a billing address. :)

I really do enjoy the differences between local cultures too. For your next experience Steve, go North :) Major culture shock!

[Dr Caleb]

OH! THAT'S HOW IT IS?!?!? YOU GRUDGE HOLDIN' HOCKEY LOVIN' DOUGHNUT MUNCHERS!!! You are aware that this nation has issued numerous formal apologies for the export of the Captain and Tennille. It was certainly the darkest time in our history and no one can defend the vile nature of our past-we have wallowed in our collective shame and we are a better people for having survived!! :mad2: :mad2:

Hey, we've aplogized numerous times for Alan Thicke, Ciline Dion and Tom Green. I guess we had the SouthPark movie (you know Tres Parker is a Canuck too, right?) C&T and the Osmonds coming.

But Chris Benoit, Terri Clark and Shania Twain make up for it - riiiight! ;)

[junehhan]

Hey, we've aplogized numerous times for Alan Thicke, Ciline Dion and Tom Green. I guess we had the SouthPark movie (you know Tres Parker is a Canuck too, right?) C&T and the Osmonds coming.

But Chris Benoit, Terri Clark and Shania Twain make up for it - riiiight! ;)


Hey, leave Celine alone! I don't see why so many people seem to dislike her. Sure she married someone that appears to be twice her age, but the important thing is that the love is there. Her singing voice is also very pretty. As far as Trey Parker goes, I had no idea he was a Canuck. You guys can keep Tom Green and the Osmonds...........

Wanna trade? We'll give you Shania Twain for Celine Dion. I personally cannot stand Shania for some reason............

[Patrick]

My 2 cents! First GM is trying to cash in on a Name. And most dealerships go thru salesman like I go thru well "underwear" Sorry but its a sad fact. They are just looking for the money, BOTTOM LINE! I thought I saw a GTO today, or a Gran Prixx, Maybe a Grand AM. Turned out Grand Am!! So sad!!~!! But atleast Ford left us with this MM!!! Cant miss it, and people just go Damm!!!! Yes they could have made it better off the lot. 5.4 6 speed or whatever! I still cant belive the looks I get in MM! Ford Almost got this car right! We will make it live! And right!

[RCSignals]

No subtitles on french radio here, either, by the way... ;)


you sure about that? I'm sure it's something the Government of Quebec would have legislated........

[RCSignals]

I'm not sure i've seen a GTO yet.
From what I've heard though, some dealers are marking them up (this type of action is partly what hurt the Marauder's sales too)
Also, like the Marauder, the advertising campaign for the GTO seems to have wained. Maybe ran longer than the Marauder campaign though.

As for looks, well it seems GM knew about that before they even released it, but in typical GM fashion said they'd fix it with the next version. Great incentive to go and by the current one!

[Haggis]

I'm not sure i've seen a GTO yet.
From what I've heard though, some dealers are marking them up (this type of action is partly what hurt the Marauder's sales too)
Also, like the Marauder, the advertising campaign for the GTO seems to have wained. Maybe ran longer than the Marauder campaign though.

As for looks, well it seems GM knew about that before they even released it, but in typical GM fashion said they'd fix it with the next version. Great incentive to go and by the current one!


There is going to be a new show on the USA channel featuring the gto and other Pontiac cars called "The last Ride" or something like that. They have been advertising it heavy the last week or two and have even been doing specials on the making of the show.

I'm still looking for a new gto. Here little gto, here little gto I know your out there don't hind I'll make it nice and painless for you. Yea right just like a cat with a mouse painless. Play with it for a while and when I get tired...SQUISH!!

[BillyGman]

My 2 cents! First GM is trying to cash in on a Name. And most dealerships go thru salesman like I go thru well "underwear" Sorry but its a sad fact. They are just looking for the money, BOTTOM LINE! I thought I saw a GTO today, or a Gran Prixx, Maybe a Grand AM. Turned out Grand Am!! So sad!!~!! But atleast Ford left us with this MM!!! Cant miss it, and people just go Damm!!!! Yes they could have made it better off the lot. 5.4 6 speed or whatever! I still cant belive the looks I get in MM! Ford Almost got this car right! We will make it live! And right!Well put Patrick. I fully agree w/you on that. I can't think of more than a couple new cars that look as good as the Marauder does, and both of them are well over 80K.

As for the GTO, it doesn't bother me that it looks like other Pontiacs, but just that it's shape (just like all new Pontiacs) isn't what I consider nice looking.

[QWK SVT]

There are a few. Ford GT comes to mind. Mitsubishi only recently started selling cars in Canada. Quite a bit of the high end stuff is hard to find or even import - Bently, Lotus etc.

It's not that we *can't* have them, it that some models don't come with requirements for Canada, speedo in KM/H, daytime running lights for example. The GTO I assume was built for the US market, so it most likely doesn't have the speedo in KM/H or daytime running lights. The speedo would be easy, as the car is made by Holden in Australlia, so they most likely had to make a new Speedo for the US market, but I don't know the AU laws on DTR's.

I think we have some that aren't for sale in the US. The Smart Car (http://www.thesmart.ca/) comes to mind, but it should be available in the US in 2006.
Actually, the reason that the GTO can't be sold here is that it doesn't pass our more restictive bumper laws. This is also the case with Mitsu's turbo-charger, AWD Lancer, the EVO.

We also have the ho-hum Optra available. Chevy's answer to a question never asked.
http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/chevrolet/optra/optr_overview.html
and in 5 door:
http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/chevrolet/optra5/opt5_overview.html

[QWK SVT]

Hey, leave Celine alone! I don't see why so many people seem to dislike her. Sure she married someone that appears to be twice her age, but the important thing is that the love is there. Her singing voice is also very pretty. As far as Trey Parker goes, I had no idea he was a Canuck. You guys can keep Tom Green and the Osmonds...........

Wanna trade? We'll give you Shania Twain for Celine Dion. I personally cannot stand Shania for some reason............
While I don't listen to her music, I guess she's recognized as a good singer... But, if you have ever have the pleasure of eating at Celine's restaurant, you'd be throwing her back, too. How can a 50's-style diner be unable to make a decent hamburger? :rolleyes:

PS - Shania is also one of ours :pimp:

[Bluerauder]

There is going to be a new show on the USA channel featuring the gto and other Pontiac cars called "The last Ride" or something like that. They have been advertising it heavy the last week or two and have even been doing specials on the making of the show.

I'm still looking for a new gto. Here little gto, here little gto I know your out there don't hind I'll make it nice and painless for you. Yea right just like a cat with a mouse painless. Play with it for a while and when I get tired...SQUISH!!
Gordon,

I saw the commercial last night for "The Last Ride". It features Dennis Hopper as the older guy with a '68/'69 (??) Pontiac GTO Judge --- in the original orange and black trim. The younger sidekick is driving the new GTO. The TV ad was kinda catchy ... and the link of the old to new GTO is a straight marketing ploy. Now if I can figure out when it is on TV, I will probably be watching.

Saw a silver GTO in heavy traffic several weeks ago; but have not encountered one on the open road.

[Marauderman]

I absolutely agree w/Steven on all points. Even if you gave me a new GTO, I'd simply sell it in order to buy a second Marauder. The GTO has that same lame jelly bean/egg shape to it that most cars today have. Can you say "UGLY"??? I wouldn't care if it was an 11 second car that sold for 15K. I still wouldn't buy one because of how lame the body style looks.

Say --Billy-That must be why I can't find one to play with--they look like all the others in their style--duh!!..how do you tell ---!!

[Haggis]

Gordon,

I saw the commercial last night for "The Last Ride". It features Dennis Hopper as the older guy with a '68/'69 (??) Pontiac GTO Judge --- in the original orange and black trim. The younger sidekick is driving the new GTO. The TV ad was kinda catchy ... and the link of the old to new GTO is a straight marketing ploy. Now if I can figure out when it is on TV, I will probably be watching.

Saw a silver GTO in heavy traffic several weeks ago; but have not encountered one on the open road.


I think the show was made by Pontiac (GM) to advertise the new gto and all the other upgraded Pontiac cars comimg out. In one scene (previews) they show a gto skidding under a Tractor Trailer sideways, what they don't show you is that the Semi was jacked up to give clearance.

Yea, yea I know clearance Clarance...etc.!?!? :rolleyes:

[jgc61sr2002]

You must admit General Motors is advertising the new GTO on TV, movies etc. Too bad FMC didn't advertise the Marauder as well. Advertising = car sales. Ask Jim Wangers.

[Ladyhawke]

Gordon,

I saw the commercial last night for "The Last Ride". It features Dennis Hopper as the older guy with a '68/'69 (??) Pontiac GTO Judge --- in the original orange and black trim. The younger sidekick is driving the new GTO. The TV ad was kinda catchy ... and the link of the old to new GTO is a straight marketing ploy. Now if I can figure out when it is on TV, I will probably be watching.

Saw a silver GTO in heavy traffic several weeks ago; but have not encountered one on the open road.


The show, The Last Ride, airs on USA this Wednesday, June 2nd at 8 pm. It's 2 hours long and will replay at 10 pm.

[Bluerauder]

The show, The Last Ride, airs on USA this Wednesday, June 2nd at 8 pm. It's 2 hours long and will replay at 10 pm.
Thanks, Chris :up:

[duhtroll]

Actually, I am now glad that Mercury DIDN'T advertise the MM.

If they did, I probably wouldn't own one. Why?

1) Lack of advertising = slow sales = lower prices (i.e. I can actually afford)

2) Slow sales = no one has one = mine is more distinctive

3) No one has one = no one knows what it is = catches rice burners off guard at the light and they never know what hit them until it's all over.

Being the only one around is FINE with me. Everyone else can drive a Mustang. :P

Thanks,
-A

[FastMerc]

:banana2: Well I must say the new so called GTO, This car deserved its owne IMAGE which it does not have.Ive seen 3 all female drivers henc Fiero.I still have my 1st car from high school which is a 67 Pontiac LeMans origionally a326 powererd car.Now is under construction with a 468 cubic inch 571 blower when finished I will not hesitate to take on a GTO or any 300 counton it.

[duhtroll]

I saw a guy with his brand new fugly yellow GTO the other day as he pulled into the gas station. I made a point to pull up right next to him.

The eyes weren't on the GTO. :D

-A

[jerrym3]

Starting to hear GTO ads on the radio quite frequently. Roaring exhaust, and 0-60 times quoted. Surprised they are doing this, since it's a fairly low volume vehicle.

Maybe the goal is to start people thinking that Pontiac is out to be a performance brand again.

[MENINBLK]

Starting to hear GTO ads on the radio quite frequently. Roaring exhaust, and 0-60 times quoted. Surprised they are doing this, since it's a fairly low volume vehicle.

Maybe the goal is to start people thinking that Pontiac is out to be a performance brand again.

Maybe it is because Pontiac went and built about 18,000 of these vehicles and NO ONE WANTS THEM !!!

[buckyboy]

I drove by a pontiacdealer the other day to check out the GTO, not impressed. Actually the salespeople all gathered around my blk mm..it was funny. One of them said, "yours has 302 hp?..you know the gto has 340hp!"..I just looked at him and laughed..and said..how many have you sold since they came out?...He just truned around and walked away. YEAH..WHAT I THOUGHT...:coolman: :shot: :shot:

[BillyGman]

Yep, I hear what you guys are saying. Fast will never make up for UGLY......

[jerrym3]

The red GTO in the local Pontiac dealer's showroom was sold in one day.

The point was at least Pontiac is trying to beef up sales. That's better than what Ford did with the MM (and the TBird)-nothing. They just decided to kill them.

Maybe that's what GM will do to the GTO. But, if they can get sales up by advertising, maybe they'll spend some bucks for a body re-style.

Look at the Lincoln LS. Ford doesn't even bother to offer a maual shift with a V8, while GMotors bites the bullet and brings out the CTS-V.

But, hey, how about that new Escape?? And what about the 500 and Montego where Ford already admits that they will announce larger motors for both cars? Haven't they learned that you never get a second chance to make a good first impression?

The Mustang is the only Ford beam of light.

(Wayne L&M, Wayne, NJ, website says 19 Marauders in stock.)

[buckyboy]

the dealer i went to had 2 automatics..side by side by the front door...why would you buy a gto, let alone a gto with a automatic?..the guy said everyone tells him to call them when the 6 spd shows up...

[RCSignals]

But, hey, how about that new Escape?? And what about the 500 and Montego where Ford already admits that they will announce larger motors for both cars? Haven't they learned that you never get a second chance to make a good first impression?

I agree, however, it's exactly what GM is doing with the GTO, announcing that they will make up for deficiencies in styling etc with the next version. They said that before the current GTO even hit the streets. Cadillac did also with the CTS before the CTS-V

[Vortex]

As a former owner of an 04 GTO (Black over red leather/M6) I have to add my two cents. The new GTO is a hellofa good automobile but as of now it has been a sales disaster. What happened goes back about a year and a half, Pontiac took orders on the cars sight unseen by the car-crazy public (willing to pay MSRP; ie: me) but then delivered the first cars to their favorite dealers, irrespective of the advance orders. So the dealers that did get them that did not have firm orders tried to gouge the first customers by asking 4-5k over MSRP. Their cars sat on the lots. By the time those of us who had pre-ordered our cars finally got them there were so many at other dealers sitting on the lots that could be bought for lots less. A totally screwed up marketing job. Lutz should roll some heads. Compared to the MM, the GTO is a much more powerful road car, and handles totally different to a (stock) MM. The Blaupunkt stereo puts the buzzing subwoofer in my MM to shame. That said, I had one main problem with the car, Im a big guy and it was just too damn small inside, not to mention getting in and out. The back seat was fine once you got anybody into it but that was a chore because the GTO is basically a Catera coupe and the doors are even with the front seats. Also, the trunk was the size of two golfbags as they had to relocate the gas tank over the rear axle. I did look at the MM originally but was swayed to the new GTO because I own a 67 hardtop. Well, I have to say my MM, though not nearly as quick, is quick enough and about 100 percent a more enjoyable day-to-day driving experience. I will add the GTO was pretty generic looking and Ive had many more onlookers staring at my MM. Nobody even noticed the GTO unless they were a car person. You can get a new 04 today for around 26k, which is a heck of a deal for a car that sold for 35k less than a year ago. Just my opinion for what its worth...

[mdmarauder]

I looked at the GTO before buying my '04. I drove it but thought the ride was bad and couldn't get over the looks. The engine is strong but I do like the feel of an overhead cam motor. So, in the end bought another MM. Don't regret my decision at all.

[2005Marauder]

Vortex, thanks for the input. That's why I started this thread. Mercury flubbed the MM introduction also. They have the same crappy distribution plan as GM. I put deposit down Months, and Months before you could even order one. Mercury Sales manger didn't even know what it was and then called me back and told me they probably weren't going to make it. Many other dealers got one before me--I did get the first one they sold in Memphis as I had in my contract to get the first one they sold or the deal was off. To my advantage I was able to get a little off the MSRP because they knew I could drive to say St. Louis and get one. I think that on new model introductions, that the allocation should go to the customer and not to the dealer. If I place the first order for a car BEFORE it's produced, I should get the first car--not some dealer in Los Angeles.