Engine ticking up top,right side, is it time to panic?

[Shinker]

Bought an 03 3 months ago. Wasn't running. Replaced tires,starter,air bags,pcv valve and fuel filter. Changed oil and antifreeze. Removed old fuel from tank and line, removed plugs (looked good) cleaned coil boots and plug wells. Drove it for the 1st time yesterday. Has a noticeable tick at idle coming from the passenger head and timing cover area. Doesn't idle very good at stop lights either but never stalled. Misses intermittently at idle,more so on right bank. Didn't floor it once on test drive but was impressed with how much power it had. Put a 100K on it yesterday to check for any other issues and no error codes yet. It's a Canadian marauder with 170,000 kilometres. Any ideas or suggestions?

[Curless]

Def want a good mechanic to listen to it BEFORE you keep driving it. No destruction has happened yet. You may need timing chains / guides / tensioners replaced. TOW IT to a shop you trust. ONLY RUN IT WHEN YOU HAVE TO... Plenty of people have made the mistake of thinking it will be o.k. and then....

[Shinker]

Ok thanks for the input. Wish I knew a good automotive mechanic that I trusted. I haven't taken any vehicle I've owned to a shop in 30yrs. Haven't had to do any major engine or trans work on my vehicles since high school. Went to school for heavy duty mechanic in 87 and an instructor told us that a good mech is someone who ( if they screw up while repairing customer's equipment) convinces customer it was their fault and gets them to pay for it. No doubt that's still the case. Been trying to educate myself on this engine for 3 months now. Bought Sean Hyland's book as well. Just looking for more insight on the idiosyncrasies of the 4.6 dohc.

Thanks to all of you. Great forum

[Curless]

Take a video of it with your phone and post a link...

[Shinker]

https://youtu.be/cGYGFXtZRYY

[Shinker]

Wish I knew how to do that it. Took video but no luck sending GF is workin on it cause I'm not computer savvy at all. I suppose I'm in denial it's obvious what I need to do. Timing chains for sure. Was just super excited to finally get to drive it.

[The_Dude]

That doesn't sound good. :(

[RubberCtyRauder]

you live on a dirt road? does not sound very good, would not drive it.

[MERCURY 2003LSE]

Does not sound good , running it is likely doing more damage :beer:

[Chevyguy]

Best case is dropped valve seats and some roller followers have popped out

[Shinker]

Yeah I live out in the sticks. Won't drive it till I fix it. Guess I'll do a compression check now to see how the rings and valves are sealing and determine how deep I gotta go. Hope it's just loose chains. Thanks for the help

[MERCURY 2003LSE]

That noise is not loose chains .
:beer:

[Curless]

I'm afraid that is not loose chains... time for a rebuild.

[Bradley G]

free diagnosis :bunny3:

[Thomas C Potter]

Could the head casting issue be a part of his issue??

[Zack]

Could the head casting issue be a part of his issue??

No it cannot

[Shinker]

I still haven't found source of noise but did a compression check
Left side all at 175
Right side 185 165 165 185
Getting that right valve cover off is proving to be difficult though.

[RubberCtyRauder]

there is a sticky thread in this section with how to remove cam covers

[Shinker]

Thanks. Cover is off now and don't see any obvious damage to valve train.
Looking down inside front cover Chain guides seem pretty thick and were tight but when I rolled engine over about 1/2 a revolution it went slack. I thought the motorcraft filter has an anti-drain back valve to prevent that ?
A local guy I recently talked to has much more experience with panthers than I do is coming over to have a look at it this afternoon so looking forward to that.
Appreciate all the help, thanks

[justbob]

Perfectly normal. It's just valve springs working against each other.


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[Shinker]

Got the front cover off and both primary chains are loose but passenger side is much more noticeable. When I turn cranckshaft with a wratchet the chain whacks the guide and makes the ticking sound I believe I was hearing. I put a wrench on the big cam gear bolt when chain is at its loosest point and I can rotate the secondary gears taking up slack on primary chain which I think is why I heard slight knocking on passenger side when I stepped on it half throttle. Passenger side would go out of time a bit I think. .600 thousandths space between chain and guide at loosest point. Chain droops so much on right side that it's not touching the top guide at all. Guides are in good condition which I was not expecting. Wanna pull lower intake next and clean it up. Lots of oil down inside.

[Gerry24]

Post some pics.... If you can, good luck.

[Shinker]

Here's a picture

[Pat]

why is this area so clean? I would expect to see a lot of oil clinging to the parts. Is there an oil orifice blocked?

[Shinker]

https://youtu.be/hbZY1Q3nAYk

Here's a video I took of ticking noise I think I heard from passenger head.

[Zack]

Those guides were recently changed

Install some steel tensioners and call it a day

[Zack]

https://youtu.be/hbZY1Q3nAYk

Here's a video I took of ticking noise I think I heard from passenger head.

Never rotate the engine backward.

Just install steel tensioners

[Shinker]

Steel tensioners and that's it? Sweet. Wish I knew the maintenance history on this car. original owner either doesn't know or is being secretive.

[Zack]

Doesn't mean it's gonna solve the noise problem, but the plastic tensioners can fail

[CRUSIN']

Where can one find the steel tensioners?

[Shinker]

I'm gonna look into steel tensioners today. Primary chains too. My plastic tensioners seem to be stroked out a lot. Just guessing but I think last person who working on it replaced guides and that's it

[F1erceK]

I may have an extra set of steel tensioners. I will look when I get home. If I do you can have them free.

[F1erceK]

I do have a set of iron tensioners if you want them. PM me your address

[Shinker]

Wow! Was not expecting that kind offer. Bought car last November, spent $1500 to buy it and tow it home. $1500 to get it roadworthy and sort of running, drove it 2 days for a total of 100kilometers only to find it had serious engine issues. Been researching the engine for 4 months, found some great parts and tools online in the States only to see they don't ship here. MMR for instance. Got impatient and ordered stock tensioners (plastic) and primary chains from Ford dealer today$500. Zero luck on steel tensioners here. Performance parts for modulars are nonexistent in town or this province for that matter. I'm set to retire in 3yrs and plan on a frame off restoration. Will yank drivetrain and freshen it up then. Found out today a buddy has an address in North Portal on the border between Saskatchewan and North Dakota so I'll try that route eventually. Plastic tensioners should suffice till then. I don't drive much. Have a 2013 gmc with 29000k, 2008 Boyd Coddington f150 with 53000k. Thank you for the offer F1erceK but I must respectfully decline

[justbob]

Wow! Was not expecting that kind offer. Bought car last November, spent $1500 to buy it and tow it home. $1500 to get it roadworthy and sort of running, drove it 2 days for a total of 100kilometers only to find it had serious engine issues. Been researching the engine for 4 months, found some great parts and tools online in the States only to see they don't ship here. MMR for instance. Got impatient and ordered stock tensioners (plastic) and primary chains from Ford dealer today$500. Zero luck on steel tensioners here. Performance parts for modulars are nonexistent in town or this province for that matter. I'm set to retire in 3yrs and plan on a frame off restoration. Will yank drivetrain and freshen it up then. Found out today a buddy has an address in North Portal on the border between Saskatchewan and North Dakota so I'll try that route eventually. Plastic tensioners should suffice till then. I don't drive much. Have a 2013 gmc with 29000k, 2008 Boyd Coddington f150 with 53000k. Thank you for the offer F1erceK but I must respectfully decline



$500??!! The Ford Racing timing kit has everything even includes new front cover bolts for $500! Doesn't Summit or Jegs deliver to you??


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[Shinker]

I think they do ship to Canada but I have never ordered anything from them so that route was a bit of an unknown to me and at a 35% exchange rate plus shipping costs I figured I'd just order from Ford in town here and get the parts next day. Really want to get it going asap. I'm starting a month long shutdown in a week

[old timer]

Knock Knock, its me, Rod bearing!
Those guides look brand new, that noise to me sounds like a spun rod bearing and not timing related.

[lji372]

I think they do ship to Canada but I have never ordered anything from them so that route was a bit of an unknown to me and at a 35% exchange rate plus shipping costs I figured I'd just order from Ford in town here and get the parts next day. Really want to get it going asap. I'm starting a month long shutdown in a week

36% exchange rate? wowza!!! didn't realize is was that high anymore.

i'm about to start shopping for kitchen cabinets. maybe it's time to run across the border. i did that years ago for composite decking material, quite the savings. :banana2:


edit: just looked it up. only appears to be 25% as of today.

[RubberCtyRauder]

36% exchange rate? wowza!!! didn't realize is was that high anymore.

i'm about to start shopping for kitchen cabinets. maybe it's time to run across the border. i did that years ago for composite decking material, quite the savings. :banana2:


edit: just looked it up. only appears to be 25% as of today.

Ontario might be 25%, Saskatchewan might be another rate

[MERCURY 2003LSE]

Ontario might be 25%, Saskatchewan might be another rate

The Canadian dollar is the same in all provinces , The exchange rate today it is worth 75 cents to 1 dollar US.:beer:

I agree with old timer it is rod knock not tensioners .:beer:
Your engine is not ticking it is Knocking .

AMERICAN MUSCLE has the Ford Racing kit for a good price and ships to your door.

[Shinker]

Just picked up tensioners and chains so starting on it tomorrow. Rich buddy who has a place in Arizona told me 35% exchange rate at local bank so that scared me off. Plus the fact I have never bought anything online or over the phone using credit card. Old habits die hard. Hope it's not a rod bearing. Drove 100k with it makin that noise. I would think engine would seize up or grenade completely? After fixing cranes for 25yrs the marauder is actually fun to work on so it is what it is and I'll have to deal with it either way.

[Mr. Man]

Does the knock go away when the engine heats up or is always there?

[Shinker]

Most noticeable at idle warmed up. Didn't hear it when driving. Highway or in town. Rev it up a bit and it's barely audible. Start it after sitting overnight and can't hear it till idle drops down.

[Shinker]

Clearly I'm in denial. Lol Really didn't wanna get into the bottom end yet.

[mm svt]

Pull the oil filter and pan plug look for shiny parts

[Shinker]

That's an idea. Only have a 100kilometers on the oil but should see some shiny stuff if rod bearing is gone. Have a filter cutter at work. Open it up to inspect the filter media. Be nice to pull oil pan too. Have both motor mount nuts off. I didn't seriously look into it but has anyone tried pulling pan with engine in the car?

[sparker_1982]

Im pretty sure you raise the engine and you can sneak it outta thereRemoval



Remove crossmember No. 2.


http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155915813





Remove the transmission cooler tube retainers and position the cooler tubes aside.


http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155915814





Drain the engine oil.





Install the drain plug when finished.




http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155915816





Remove the oil pan bolts in the sequence shown.
Remove the oil pan and the gasket.

Installation

CAUTION: Do not use metal scrapers, wire brushes, power abrasive discs or other abrasive means to clean the sealing surfaces. These tools cause scratches and gouges which make leak paths. Use a plastic scraping tool to remove all traces of old sealant.




Clean and inspect the mating surfaces.

NOTE: If the oil pan is not secured within four minutes, the sealant must be removed and the sealing area cleaned with metal surface cleaner. Allow to dry until there is no sign of wetness, or four minutes, whichever is longer. Failure to follow this procedure can result in future oil leakage.


http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155915818





Apply silicone gasket and sealant at the rear oil seal retainer-to-cylinder block sealing surface.

NOTE: If the oil pan is not secured within four minutes, the sealant must be removed and the sealing area cleaned with metal surface cleaner. Allow to dry until there is no sign of wetness, or four minutes, whichever is longer. Failure to follow this procedure can result in future oil leakage.


http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155915820





Apply silicone gasket and sealant at the engine front cover-to-cylinder block mating surface
Install the oil pan and gasket and loosely install the bolts.


http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155725319





Tighten the bolts in two stages, in the sequence shown.





Stage 1: Tighten to 20 Nm (15 lb-ft) .
Stage 2: Rotate an additional 60 degrees .




http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO%7EV479812419%7EC37591%7ER0 %7EOB0%7EP3R0H%7EN/0/89012112/94698271/94698276/94698278/34853741/100411974/34853743/34872056/34855639/158698022/155725320





Position the transmission cooler tubes and install the retainers.
Install crossmember No. 2.
Fill the engine with clean engine oil.
Start the engine and check for leaks.

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[sparker_1982]

The labor time calls for 4.6 hours but if you know your way around cars you should be able to get it done faster.

[mm svt]

Why mess with struggling with the pan. It comes out with the engine

[justbob]

Either engine out or lower the crossmember. It will not clear if you don't do one of those...


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[Shinker]

Yeah I suppose I should just dissect the oil filter and if it's sparkly inside then pull engine. If not I'll button it up and see if noise is gone. Replaced chains and tensioners yesterday. If noise still there then pull engine.

[Shinker]

Engine not running yet but spun it over with starter long enough to build 70psi with a quad gauge hooked up to filter housing and oil was spewing on chains and cardboard under car. No slack in chains at all now. Yet. Bad tensioner? Cut filter open and no metal at all. Cautiously optimistic at this point

[mm svt]

Button it up and start it

[Shinker]

I'm working on it

[Sask_Mrdr]

I'm working on it

Looks all good after looking at it with you button her up and lertr rip!!!!:beer:

[Shinker]

Got it going today. Had a few problems cause I'm flyin by the seat of my pants but no more ticking or knocking. Replaced an idler pulley bearing and 1 fuel injector o-ring. Its throwing a 0353 error code now so I musta messed up on #3 cyl coil or damaged the wiring harness. Not sure. Went for a short drive and had a big smile on my face the whole time. Goes around corners like it's on rails

[mm svt]

Zack strikes again, he nailed it

[Shinker]

All fixed up now. No more ticking or detonation after replacing primary chains and tensioners. After I got it running yesterday also replaced rusty idler pulley bearing and had an P0353 code cause I was in a hurry and didn't get #3 coil plugged in properly. Runs smooth now. Just got back from a nice long cruise on the highway and no problems. My thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions I couldn't have done it without you

[The_Dude]

Nice work :cool:

[Shinker]

Put 1300k on it since I replaced chains and tensioners. Had a long trip last weekend 22mpg(mostly Hwy) seems ok but not sure what is average. Sure is nice to drive. Had it fishtailing going around a corner this morning. Those 6000rpm up shifts scare me a bit but sound impressive