You're being watched!!!

[uwsacf]

We need your help on this one guys - and I mean a lot of help... phones and written letters (email will not work)

Senator Larry Craig has put up a bill called the Safe Act

If you read the following LA Time article - it should finally start becoming apparent that what we have been saying for a while is not smoke from right wing wackos...and 1984 is not on the way - IT'S HERE...

It is about your Liberty... and the misuse of all your tracking data for other than terrorism...

The Patriot Act (boy, talk about NewSpeak) has been used and abused by Ashcroft for all the wrong reasons...

Even Rummy's Defense Dept says this needs to stop and encourages Congress to fight the privacy issue full court.


But a soon-to-be-released report from a panel created by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld recommends that the Defense Department take steps to ensure privacy when mining data to fight terrorism.

The report also urges Congress to pass stronger privacy laws and calls on the courts and the president to take action to protect Americans in the face of new information-gathering technologiesIf this doesn't convince you - I don't know what will...

So read the article and help us try and get the SAFE Act passed BEFORE the election...

We can get their attention now and Larry knows it - after the election - all we will get is lip service and more Big Brother nonsense as you will read below...

We have the help of these guys:


The SAFE Act bill has received the endorsement of such diverse groups as the ACLU, the Gun Owners of America and the American Conservative Union.

It's long - but unless you are registered at the Times the link won't do you any good.

[uwsacf]

______________________________ ___________________

You're being watched
Voices on all sides are raising concerns about post-9/11 security laws and the interpretation of those measures. How much privacy can we lose?
By Anne-Marie O'Connor
Times Staff Writer
May 26, 2004

It's a simple task: renewing a bank check card. But first, the Wells Fargo Bank clerk requires personal information, "to help the government fight the funding of terrorism."

How long have you been at your current address? he asks. Are you a U.S. citizen? What are your Social Security and driver's license numbers? Your date of birth? Your home phone number?

"It's part of the USA Patriot Act," explains Sherry Kamkar, the manager of the Santa Monica branch.

Since new security laws were introduced following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, information-gathering has crept into the most basic transactions of American life. Mortgage brokers' identification procedures must, in the words of one Treasury Department directive, help "determine whether the customer appears on any list of suspected terrorists." American Airlines recently became the third airline, after Northwest and JetBlue, to acknowledge giving the personal records of millions of passengers to the government.

But other unprecedented information demands are unrelated to the national security drive. Earlier this year, for example, the Justice Department unsuccessfully attempted to subpoena abortion records from hospitals and Planned Parenthood offices, ostensibly to scrutinize enforcement of late-term abortion laws, saying consumers no longer had a "reasonable expectation" of medical record confidentiality.

These forays into areas previously deemed off-limits are part of a growing culture of official information gathering that has some critics calling for scrutiny.

A chorus of concerned citizens, local officials and organizations — ranging from municipal and state governments to the American Civil Liberties Union, gun rights groups and conservative Republican legislators — is calling for a rollback of portions of the Patriot Act, the sweeping law enacted by Congress to fight terrorism six weeks after Sept. 11 that critics contend erodes basic civil liberties.

Technology for accessing personal data has grown by leaps and bounds, creating concerns over the potential misuses of immense troves of personal data — from addresses and birth dates to Social Security and home phone numbers — routinely relinquished by consumers everywhere from supermarkets to video and auto-parts stores.

Yet at a time when Western Europe and Canada are responding to this information boom with stricter privacy laws, U.S. privacy guarantees are actually being weakened under the banner of national security, experts say.

The Bush administration says the sweeping new investigative powers are needed to prevent terrorist attacks that could imperil thousands of lives and threaten one of the most basic civil rights: to live without fear.

But a soon-to-be-released report from a panel created by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld recommends that the Defense Department take steps to ensure privacy when mining data to fight terrorism. The report also urges Congress to pass stronger privacy laws and calls on the courts and the president to take action to protect Americans in the face of new information-gathering technologies that make anti-terrorism privacy issues "not the tip of the iceberg, but rather one small specimen in a sea of icebergs."

Never before has so much information on private American citizens been available to so many, said Mark S. Frankel, the director of the scientific freedom, responsibility and law program of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, which co-sponsored a forum on the issue in Washington a few weeks ago called "Can Anonymity Survive in a Post-9/11 Society?"

"There seem to be more and more efforts to collect information on the assumption that it is going to help protect me against terrorists or provide better business to my customers," Frankel said. "It's happening in different sectors, some private, some government and some state. No one is really looking at the whole picture and saying, 'Wait a minute.' Slowly but surely, and in different ways, we are giving up our private information."

One of the greatest risks, he said, is identity theft, which victimized 10 million Americans last year.

Expanded powers

Another concern is that information collected under the banner of national security could be misused to monitor or stifle dissidence, Frankel said. Last summer, when Texas Democrats famously took off for Oklahoma in a successful attempt to kill a congressional redistricting plan, Texas officials requested a small unit of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security help search for the plane of one of the filibustering legislators.

The FBI can now gather information on businesses suspected of financing terrorism without informing the businesses. In Washington, D.C., video security cameras monitor protest marches, but they can also be used to keep track of who participates, Frankel said.

"The potential for abuse is not insignificant at all," Frankel said. "The Nixon administration's enemies list was well known. We know that the IRS, in the past, has been accused of collecting data on people requested by the White House, saying, 'Let's see if we can get them on their taxes and make trouble for them.' " A number of Americans are growing more protective of their privacy. The telemarketing "no-call" list was met enthusiastically by more than 58 million subscribers. While a Harris poll conducted in March found that 76% of respondents were confident that U.S. law enforcement agencies will use their expanded surveillance powers properly, some 57% also believed the airlines should have received travelers' permission before handing over their data.

But in many ways the cat is already out of the bag. A vast amount of information once stored in dusty boxes under the bed is now freely available, thanks to information services that mine supermarket files and real estate and court records.

To show the ease of obtaining personal information, Barry Steinhardt, the director of the ACLU Technology and Liberty Program, paid less than $40 online to obtain the home address and phone number of Adm. James M. Loy, now the deputy secretary for the Department of Homeland Security. Steinhardt raises the possibility that rogue government employees might push political agendas — or even help terrorists.

Steinhardt said the potential for misuse "has been greatly accelerated by 9/11, because protections have been weakened at a time we should be developing new protections to keep pace with technological advances.

"America has very primitive privacy laws," he said. "There is a pitched battle going on now in the courts, and in the courts of public opinion, about what is a reasonable expectation of privacy in 20th century America. How that battle is resolved is going to determine how much privacy we have left."

Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig says it has become a "constant struggle to preserve our right to privacy." Craig, a board member of the National Rifle Assn., has co-written bipartisan legislation, called the SAFE Act, that would restrict or reign in some aspects of the Patriot Act that allow for the secret government surveillance of medical, financial and library records.

"Libraries were a source of information on political dissidence in the McCarthy era," Craig said. "It led to blacklists and false convictions. If patrons knew the government knew what they were reading, it would have a chilling effect, which is in itself a form of censure."

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft vehemently opposes the SAFE Act. Craig, who counts Ashcroft among his personal friends, says he generally supports the Patriot Act and does not believe it has been abused.

But having pushed for the investigation of the 1992 confrontation between federal agents and the Randy Weaver family in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, Craig says his state has firsthand experience with the potential excesses of "zealot" agents.

"I am one of those who has a healthy suspicion of my government. If it costs one person their reputation, their business or their family based on false information, then shame on us."

Former Assistant Atty. Gen. Viet Dinh, who drafted and negotiated the Patriot Act on behalf of the Bush administration, dismissed the SAFE Act as "politics." He said criminal investigators already had legal access to such records before the Patriot Act, through grand jury subpoenas and other legal avenues. "We're in this la-la land where people are insisting on extreme readings of [the act]," said Dinh, now a Georgetown Law School professor. "It may well be that all the attention focused on the [act] should be directed at … other laws relating to privacy."

Mount Holyoke professor Chris Pyle, a former Army intelligence officer who is now one of the nation's foremost experts on domestic surveillance, said many of today's privacy woes date to the Privacy Act, which was passed in 1974 before the creation of major electronic databases. He said corporate lobbying limited the act's privacy protections to information held by government agencies.

[uwsacf]

New federal laws that took effect last year restrict access to medical records. But for the most part, Americans are protected unevenly by a patchwork of privacy laws, many of them at the state level.

California, which has some of the nation's strictest, has banned the wide sharing of data collected by supermarkets. In many other states, that information is sold to third parties. Data collected by pizza parlors, motels and hotels, however, is unprotected nationwide, Pyle said.

The advent of the computer age in the 1980s made it possible to easily access such information. As a result, vast amounts of up-to-date personal data on Americans are available and easily tapped by the government.

Sharing information

Worried about preventing a terrorist attack over the New Year, government agents, for example, subpoenaed hotels and airline passenger records in Las Vegas — worrying casino owners whose Sin City ad campaign promises that "what happens here stays here." Commercial data can also be cross-referenced, Pyle said, with new federal watch lists with names of people deemed suspicious though not charged with any crime. Names can be added by participating local police forces and shared by authorities as far away as Italy or the Middle East — whether the information is correct or not, he said.

"These are secret databases. You can't correct them like you could a false credit report," Pyle said. "This means you and I can be caught up in that kind of information swapping."

One particular component of the Patriot Act, Section 215, has touched off a national movement. The provision empowers federal agents to obtain permission from a secret court operating under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to review records — theoretically, everything from a person's academic and medical files to bookstore purchases and library use — and obtain a gag order that binds the store or agency providing the material to secrecy.

Opposition to the provision has mounted steadily, with nearly 300 U.S. communities and several states passing resolutions against it. Last year, officials in Arcata, Calif., warned of a $57 fine for those who don't "promptly notify the city manager" if federal agents request such assistance.

Legislation pending in Congress would amend Section 215. The SAFE Act bill has received the endorsement of such diverse groups as the ACLU, the Gun Owners of America and the American Conservative Union. Some Republican supporters say the surveillance powers could be used against conservatives by a future Democratic administration.

The American Library Assn. joined with the American Booksellers Assn. and PEN, the writer's group, to collect a million signatures in support of amendments to Section 215.

"It doesn't matter to our customers whether federal agents are marching in and out of our stores. It's that they could," said Phillip Bevis, the spokesman for the coalition's Campaign for Readers' Privacy. "That's all it takes to have a chilling effect."

Bevis, a lifelong Republican who volunteered for two Reagan campaigns, has other concerns. He is the owner of Arundel Books in Los Angeles, which was served by FBI agents in August 2001 with a subpoena for six years' worth of customer records for books purchased for Democratic Sen. Robert Torricelli.

"It was a blatant political fishing expedition," Bevis said. "What if they found out he was buying novels by gay writers or something? It can be extremely damaging. It's got nothing to do with national security. It's about dirt."

Section 215 has also raised international concerns.

The Canadian province of British Columbia halted its acceptance of a bid from a U.S. company to manage its Medical Services Plan records while officials studied whether their records could be accessed by the FBI. "We will not go into an arrangement that puts patient information at risk," Health Minister Colin Hansen said in March.

Washington's request for Europe's airline passenger data for flights into the U.S. was initially opposed by the European Parliament. But last week, the European Union agreed, saying the pact provides consumers "adequate protection."

Privacy advocates say the increased tracking opens a new area of concern: from stalkers, criminals or even terrorists themselves, hacking into the information systems.

"You can hire mercenaries that can do things with technology," Frankel said, "if someone is really intent on doing evil."

Surveillance expert Pyle agreed. "If somebody dislikes you and wants to drop a bomb on your house, they can find you very quickly on the Internet."

http://www.latimes.com/la-et-oconnor26may26,1,234277.story

[uwsacf]

Sorry - it took 3 posts to make it all there...

sorry - its wordy, but necessary...

That is - if you are concerned about your liberty and that of your children.

[woaface]

Yeah, I'm willing to read the bill and see what it's about, but I will not read/trust an article on the bill from a news outlet. You got the bill?

[Marauderman]

Yeah, I'm willing to read the bill and see what it's about, but I will not read/trust an article on the bill from a news outlet. You got the bill?
Yeah..James ....I like your way of thinking--"-unless blues eyes sees it....blues eyes..don't believes it!!! One of my motto's going thru life that I have always used--expecially when giving training or instructions in a class mode......your making a good impression on us older fellows.....Tom

[Patrick]

I am with James on this one :up: And I will leave it at that before I get into trouble.

[woaface]

Patrick, I am diggin' the new sig:up:

So this bill is gonna get posted soon right? :rolleyes:

[RCSignals]

long before the patriot act, private information has been gathered by non government entities, insurance companies, finance companies, marketing companies, etc, and shared between them. That frankly almost concerns me more than what the patriot act allows the government to gather.

Separate of the patriot act, the federal government now requires states to gather Social security numbers when drivers licences are issued or renewed. Not to put on drivers licences, but to track "dead beat" parents.

I can't go to my local DMV, and get information on the history of my own car, but almost any company for a small fee, can and more.

[Patrick]

Patrick, I am diggin' the new sig:up:

So this bill is gonna get posted soon right? :rolleyes: When it gets posted then we sill we will talk!

[BillyGman]

Yeah, I'm willing to read the bill and see what it's about, but I will not read/trust an article on the bill from a news outlet. You got the bill?
That's the James we all know and Luv:up:

[Patrick]

That's the James we all know and Luv:up:
:up: :up:

[rookie1]

point:

The Patriot Act was passed less than a year after 9/11 when everyone from both parties was falling all over themselves trying to look like they were doing something in regards to prevention. At the time it was the subject of much controversy and obviously still is. Everything that the article talks about is indeed possible under this heinous act. It was an assault on our liberties when it was passed and remains so today.

Counterpoint:

The other side of the coin is that terrorism is unconvential warfare and must be fought unconventionally. There are provisions and practices allowed under the act that would have helped prevent 9/11 if someone new what to look for.

[woaface]

Well I have a copy of the Patriot Act and it is REALLY long. I'll post it shortly after I finish all of some work I have to do later today and a dance class. (No, tap is Wednesday)

But since there's an article already up, I thought I'd post one by my favorite, Michelle Malkin. Part interpretation, and a little bit of background on the guy who wrote the Patriot Act. But like duncan said, this kind of thing isn't new. You know, here at the local Bilo grocery stores (owned by Ahold, a dutch company) they're going to, or already are, logging everything you buy with your "bonus card" (to give discounts at the register) and they send it to your insurance company. If you buy lots of meat and ciggarets or such for a period of 2 years, they raise your rates.



Grateful for Patriot Acts
Michelle Malkin (back to web version (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/mm20030702.shtml))


July 2, 2003

To civil-liberties alarmists, Viet Dinh is a traitor. To me, he is an American hero.

Dinh, 35, is widely known -- and reviled -- as the primary architect of the Patriot Act. Until May, he was an assistant attorney general for the Office of Legal Policy in John Ashcroft's Justice Department. (He stepped down to return to his law school post at Georgetown University.) Since the Sept. 11 ist attacks, Dinh told The Christian Science Monitor, "our nation's ability to defend itself against has been not only my vocation but my obsession."

This Fourth of July holiday, I will give thanks for those like Dinh who have worked tirelessly to ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, and secure the blessings of liberty that no other country in the world can match.

A constitutional law expert, Dinh's office had been mostly concerned with judicial nominations before Sept. 11. After the mass of 3,000 men, women and children on American soil, Dinh became an instrumental member of the brain trust that designed the Bush administration's anti-terrorism policies. Most importantly, the Patriot Act revised outdated rules that ly hampered surveillance of suspected ists in America. Dinh also helped craft plans to monitor the entry and exit of foreign students and to register and track non-immigrant visitors from high-risk Middle Eastern countries.

An immigrant himself who escaped from communist Vietnam a quarter-century ago aboard a rickety boat, Dinh notes that foreign visitors to our shores are guests obligated to obey the laws -- some which "have not been enforced for 50 years." It was time, Dinh and his colleagues decided, to start enforcing them.

The results speak for themselves:

-- The feds have busted more than 20 suspected al Qaeda cell members from Buffalo, N.Y., to Detroit, Seattle and Portland, Ore.

-- More than 100 other individuals have been convicted or pled guilty to ist related crimes.

-- The United States has deported 515 individuals linked to the Sept. 11 investigation.

-- Hundreds of foreign criminals and suspected ists, plus one known member of al Qaeda, were prevented from entering the country thanks to the National Entry-Exit Registration System -- which Sen. Ted Kennedy attempted to sabotage earlier this year.

-- Long overdue fingerprint cross checks of immigration and FBI databases at the border have resulted in the arrest of more than 5,000 fugitives, wanted for crimes committed in the United States.

-- And nearly two years after the Sept. 11 attacks, there has not yet been another mass ist attack on our homeland.

Opponents of the Bush administration's homeland defense and immigration enforcement efforts complain that the war on has eviscerated civil liberties and constitutional rights. They have falsely portrayed the Patriot Act as allowing the feds to spy on library patrons without a warrant or criminal suspicion -- a lie perpetuated by the truth-challenged New York Times.

They have hysterically compared the detention of illegal aliens from -friendly countries to the World War II internment of Japanese. And they have likened Ashcroft, Dinh, and the Justice Department to the Taliban and s. Never mind that the courts have so far upheld every major initiative and tactic from keeping immigration deportation hearings closed, to maintaining secrecy of the names of illegal alien detainees, to allowing use of the Patriot Act surveillance powers.

Dinh is refreshingly unapologetic and to the point in response to the alarmists: "The threat to liberty comes from Osama bin Laden and his ist network, not from the men and women in blue who work to uphold the law." Drawing on Edmund Burke's theory of "Ordered Liberty," which argues that liberty cannot be exercised unless government has first provided civil order, Dinh observes: "I think security exists for liberty to flourish and liberty cannot exist without order and security."

On July 4th, this fundamental lesson of Sept. 11 must not be forgotten. The charred earth, mangled steel, crashing glass, fiery chaos and eviscerated bodies are indelible reminders that the blessings of liberty in America do not secure themselves.

[BillyGman]

Looks like an excellent article to me. Everything I've read from Michele Malkin is excellent stuff. She's a class act, and has her head on straight. Thanks Jimmy.

[woaface]

Ya'll do not want me posting the act here...but a link instead will be sufficent.

Thanks for enjoying some Michelle Malkin...gotta love Republican chicks:up:



http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/20011025_hr3162_usa_patriot_bi ll.html

[MM03MOK]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_17_11.gifYa, pretty neat, Patrick! ;)
Patrick, I am diggin' the new sig:up:

[BillyGman]

Thanks for enjoying some Michelle Malkin...gotta love Republican chicks:up:

YES!!! And unfortunately for me, they're hard to come by here in my neck of the woods (I'm burdened w/this liberal homestate of mine!)

[Patrick]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_17_11.gifYa, pretty neat, Patrick! ;)
;) ;) :bows:

[woaface]

YES!!! And unfortunately for me, they're hard to come by here in my neck of the woods (I'm burdened w/this liberal homestate of mine!)There's always Lockheed Martin, near about my place. Lot's of nice Republican ladies around the SC area:up:

[BillyGman]

Yeah, if only my employment that includes a halfway decent paycheck and 23 years of seniority wasn't in Connecticut......

[woaface]

Too bad, if only..CT is good then I guess.

Hey, come down south (pick any state) and get you a woman and come on back:P

[uwsacf]

1 . Security and Freedom Ensured Act of 2003 (SAFE) Act (Introduced in House)[H.R.3352.IH]
2 . SAFE Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.1709.IS]

you will have to go to www.thomas.gov and do a search on

Security and Freedom Ensured Act of 2003

You believe Rummy don't cha'?


But a soon-to-be-released report from a panel created by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld recommends that the Defense Department take steps to ensure privacy when mining data to fight terrorism. The report also urges Congress to pass stronger privacy laws and calls on the courts and the president to take action to protect Americans in the face of new information-gathering technologies that make anti-terrorism privacy issues "not the tip of the iceberg, but rather one small specimen in a sea of icebergs."

Sen Craig is on the NRA board and...

Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America is endorsing...

so which part are you having trouble with?

[woaface]

My point was, and I was sided with here...there should be a bill or a link to a bill posted not a news article on it. I don't care about what the LA Times thinks the bill says. ;)

[Bluerauder]

My point was, and I was sided with here...there should be a bill or a link to a bill posted not a news article on it. I don't care about what the LA Times thinks the bill says. ;)
Are you absolutely sure that you are 17 years old??? I was almost 30 before I had that kind of insight. Tell 'em, James. :up:

If anybody is watching me ... they must get a charge out of watching paint dry or seeing grass grow.
:lol:

[Marc]

1. No one should ever confuse the LA Times with one engaged in unbiased reporting.

2. I have read the Patriot Act, as well as what seems like an infinite amount of other legislation, and its the first Act I've seen in awhile that actually has some teeth to it. Every other Act that some political hack puts his name on doesn't do squat but get said hack re-elected.

3. Why don't we discuss the Marauder and related car issues here and leave the furthering of one's political agenda to other boards? The least that could happen is that you continue to make yourself look ridiculous.

4. I've been "over there." It's not perfect, but we're doing a good job and it needed to be done.

[woaface]

1. YES!
2. 100 something pages? I'll get around to it one day.
3. Eh...ok.
4. Yes indeed.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Thanks for enjoying some Michelle Malkin...gotta love Republican chicks:up:



I sure do, James... like Ann Coulter! http://www.anncoulter.org/

[BillyGman]

I sure do, James... like Ann Coulter! http://www.anncoulter.org/
Ann Coulter, yeah, another chica that I LUV to hear!!!!!

I admire her, and respect her views.....

[MARAUDERCHICK]

That's the James we all know and Luv:up:
Yep!! That's why I'm claiming him as my "future-son-in-law!!":bounce:

[woaface]

Why thank you Kathy! I'm much obliged:)

Ann Coulter is AWESOME! I have 2 of her 3 books. Treason I've yet to finish because I lended it to a teacher.:rolleyes:

[rookie1]

I sure do, James... like Ann Coulter! http://www.anncoulter.org/

especially hot republican chicks!

[sailsmen]

I am concerned about my privacy and big government. I am also concerned about terrorists.

The much maligned Patriot Act has several provisions that expire, this is to allow Congress to rexamine it and determine if our Liberties are being overly curtailed. Less than 75 people have been arrested or detained as a result of the Patriot Act, so there would appear to be limited use.

A far greater threat to our freedoms are the 750 new laws the average state passes every year, not to mention the local ordinances. In a neighboorhood in our city it is illegal to trick or treat past 9:00pm. Heaven forbide if I bring the kids to grandmas house @9:05 pm, we may get arrested!

What's really scarry is the IRS own admission that it gives out incorrect information 50% of the time. If they don't know the tax code how are we suppose to know it? :shake:

[Smokie]

Politics . Not a good topic to discuss here, the passions will flare.

This will be; I hope the first and last time I make a comment on this topic.

Nothing that a California newspaper and the A.C.L.U agrees on will ever be in the best interest of The United States of the America.

[Fourth Horseman]

Politics . Not a good topic to discuss here, the passions will flare.

This will be; I hope the first and last time I make a comment on this topic.

Nothing that a California newspaper and the A.C.L.U agrees on will ever be in the best interest of The United States of the America.

That said, I'm mailing off my annual contribution to the ACLU tomorrow, I think. That's all I've got to say on this thread. ;)

[MapleLeafMerc]

Politics . Not a good topic to discuss here, the passions will flare.

This will be; I hope the first and last time I make a comment on this topic.

Nothing that a California newspaper and the A.C.L.U agrees on will ever be in the best interest of The United States of the America.

Hi Smokie!

Yours is not the first post to warn about the dangers of discussing politics here. I haven't said this before, but your (and others') fear of political discussion at MM.net makes me wonder what is talked about when MM owners get together. Is it Marauder/Nascar/garage talk, all the time?

I think that MM.net members are all wise enough to know how to keep it civil, whether it is about politics, modifications... or even oil ;)

[hitchhiker]

Politics . Not a good topic to discuss here, the passions will flare.

This will be; I hope the first and last time I make a comment on this topic.

Nothing that a California newspaper and the A.C.L.U agrees on will ever be in the best interest of The United States of the America.
I have sat patiently waiting for this thread to go away...

This particular post (see quote) is entirely inappropriate.

What backwards kind of place are you from anyway.

Have you ever read any newspaper on a regular basis?

Even 'car guys' like us are supposed to think!

Put that bottle of ole number 7 down, get off your sister, and wake up!

California is the 6th largest economy in the world and pays the freight for a lot of the 'fly-over' states.

California gave us our best president of modern times, Ronald Wilson Reagan, a true Republican and a warm and decent man.

If you want to bash liberals, focus on the North East types like 'Teddy' who have inflicted on our great nation the very worst that the liberal agenda has had to offer. According to the state of Mass. it will soon be okay for people to marry anything that breathes!

With the stooge Bush and his CEO buddies we have greedy lying, sell-out, silver-spoon, neo-con, hiding behind false-patriotism, corporate bought and paid for, middle-class destroying, spend us into ruin, send our jobs overseas, economic traitor who works for India, China, Wal-Mart, and Halliburton, not America and certainly not working people!

Government policy now goes to the highest bidder, not the will of the people!

I can hardly wait for Bush's tenure to be over so that the Republican party can return to its decent America first roots!

Those of you out there who fit into a post middle age comfortable or comfortably retired status had better remember that you were successful in spite of men like Bush, not because of them!

Those of you still trying for a comfortable retirement or who have hopes for your children's future had better wake up and smell the coffee.

It isn't going to happen for you or your children with these
thieving economic traitors in office. No way, no how, not ever!

Today it was announced that the Bush people were awarding
Accenture, a foreign corporation, the contract for national security work!

If you listen you can hear Cheney's minions wheeling gold out of our treasury right now!

How's that for a political post.

Take care and respect each other.

Civilized peoples do that!

[David Morton]

What Hitchiker said.

Add to that a Trilogy Eaton Intercooled Supercharger!
Bwaaaahaahaahaa!

[hitchhiker]

What Hitchiker said.

Add to that a Trilogy Eaton Intercooled Supercharger!
Bwaaaahaahaahaa!
Is that a Howard Dean immitation?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[David Morton]

Is that a Howard Dean immitation?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You have to see it in person, it loses a lot in the type.

[sailsmen]

We are no longer in an isolated economy, everyone is only one click away.

We are the worlds most productive workers.

Either we reduce our lifestyle, i.e. stop buying things at discount stores and work for less, or we learn to do things others cannot.

[hitchhiker]

We are no longer in an isolated economy, everyone is only one click away.

We are the worlds most productive workers.

Either we reduce our lifestyle, i.e. stop buying things at discount stores and work for less, or we learn to do things others cannot.

If the 'WE' you refer to is the current bunch of greedy CEO's and neo-cons, I'm all for it. Everybody else is getting screwed!

[BillyGman]

Politics . Not a good topic to discuss here, the passions will flare.

This will be; I hope the first and last time I make a comment on this topic.

Nothing that a California newspaper and the A.C.L.U agrees on will ever be in the best interest of The United States of the America.Well Smokie, you said the passions will flare, and I can see that they have. So you're right. But just to let you know that I for one understand what you meant by this statement above. Some organizations are just too extreme for America to be following their lead.

So maybe I'll stir up the pot here w/this question:

why is it that it's acceptable for a group like the A.C.L.U. to support one part of the Bill of Rights (allegedly), while some think that it isn't acceptable for a group like the N.R.A. to support another part of the Bill of Rights??? Is the First Ammendment more important than the Second Ammendment is? if so, then what parts of the Bill of Rights should we allow the government to pick and choose?

[BillyGman]

Yep!! That's why I'm claiming him as my "future-son-in-law!!":bounce:
I wonder if your daughter has any say in this.

[RCSignals]

That said, I'm mailing off my annual contribution to the ACLU tomorrow, I think. That's all I've got to say on this thread. ;)
American Car Lovers United?

[BillyGman]

American Car Lovers United?
LOL....good one RC.....very appropriate for a board like this.:up:

[Patrick]

I have sat patiently waiting for this thread to go away...

This particular post (see quote) is entirely inappropriate.

What backwards kind of place are you from anyway.

Have you ever read any newspaper on a regular basis?

Even 'car guys' like us are supposed to think!

Put that bottle of ole number 7 down, get off your sister, and wake up!

California is the 6th largest economy in the world and pays the freight for a lot of the 'fly-over' states.

California gave us our best president of modern times, Ronald Wilson Reagan, a true Republican and a warm and decent man.

If you want to bash liberals, focus on the North East types like 'Teddy' who have inflicted on our great nation the very worst that the liberal agenda has had to offer. According to the state of Mass. it will soon be okay for people to marry anything that breathes!

With the stooge Bush and his CEO buddies we have greedy lying, sell-out, silver-spoon, neo-con, hiding behind false-patriotism, corporate bought and paid for, middle-class destroying, spend us into ruin, send our jobs overseas, economic traitor who works for India, China, Wal-Mart, and Halliburton, not America and certainly not working people!

Government policy now goes to the highest bidder, not the will of the people!

I can hardly wait for Bush's tenure to be over so that the Republican party can return to its decent America first roots!

Those of you out there who fit into a post middle age comfortable or comfortably retired status had better remember that you were successful in spite of men like Bush, not because of them!

Those of you still trying for a comfortable retirement or who have hopes for your children's future had better wake up and smell the coffee.

It isn't going to happen for you or your children with these
thieving economic traitors in office. No way, no how, not ever!

Today it was announced that the Bush people were awarding
Accenture, a foreign corporation, the contract for national security work!

If you listen you can hear Cheney's minions wheeling gold out of our treasury right now!

How's that for a political post.

Take care and respect each other.

Civilized peoples do that!

CANT TOPP THAT!!!!!!

[woaface]

What backwards kind of place are you from anyway.

Have you ever read any newspaper on a regular basis?

Even 'car guys' like us are supposed to think!I have an uncle who has a very decent position in one of the largest news outlets in the world, and he'll admit, even though he says he's not worried about it, that the media does definitely lean towards the interests of the left.


Put that bottle of ole number 7 down, get off your sister, and wake up!I cannot believe you'd say that, and then tell us how to act like civilized people. That assumption goes along with this one...


California is the 6th largest economy in the world and pays the freight for a lot of the 'fly-over' states.

California gave us our best president of modern times, Ronald Wilson Reagan, a true Republican and a warm and decent man.

If you want to bash liberals, focus on the North East types like 'Teddy' who have inflicted on our great nation the very worst that the liberal agenda has had to offer. According to the state of Mass. it will soon be okay for people to marry anything that breathes! The assumption that we're talking about California being a liberal state. No one said crap about Ca-la-fo-ne-ah, so don't assume so.


With the stooge Bush and his CEO buddies we have greedy lying, sell-out, silver-spoon, neo-con, hiding behind false-patriotism, corporate bought and paid for, middle-class destroying, spend us into ruin, send our jobs overseas, economic traitor who works for India, China, Wal-Mart, and Halliburton, not America and certainly not working people!Wait, let me grab my violin!


Government policy now goes to the highest bidder, not the will of the people!Now that's very astute of you David! I'd agree with this...yes yes.


I can hardly wait for Bush's tenure to be over so that the Republican party can return to its decent America first roots!Right again! He's just not conservative enough IMO.

I don't have time to finish the rest...Tap class is soon:lol:

Yes, excuse me while I leave my fat-cat upper middle-class home and drive around in my overblown Ameri-nadian car designed to symbolize all that is wrong with America on my overblown budget eating massive amounts of food along the way and just being wastful in general. All because my father got me to where I am. Boo hoo.

[BruteForce]

I have an uncle who has a very decent position in one of the largest news outlets in the world, and he'll admit, even though he says he's not worried about it, that the media does definitely lean towards the interests of the left.

Lemme guess... Fox Network.

[sailsmen]

I don't think everybody is getting screwed, we have the highest stock and home ownership (over 1/2 of families) at any time in our history.

The over whelming majority of CEO's work extremely hard ( 80 hour weeks is not unusual ) and earn the money they are paid. If the CEO's fail many more loose their jobs then just the CEO.

[Haggis]

Yes, excuse me while I leave my fat-cat upper middle-class home and drive around in my overblown Ameri-nadian car designed to symbolize all that is wrong with America on my overblown budget eating massive amounts of food along the way and just being wastful in general. All because my father got me to where I am. Boo hoo.

James shouldn't that read:

...on my overblown budget eating massive amounts of fastfood along the way and just being wastful in general.

It could be worse, he could be lying about smoking pot and having sex with every intern in D.C.

[hitchhiker]

I have an uncle who has a very decent position in one of the largest news outlets in the world, and he'll admit, even though he says he's not worried about it, that the media does definitely lean towards the interests of the left.

I cannot believe you'd say that, and then tell us how to act like civilized people. That assumption goes along with this one...

The assumption that we're talking about California being a liberal state. No one said crap about Ca-la-fo-ne-ah, so don't assume so.

Wait, let me grab my violin!

Now that's very astute of you David! I'd agree with this...yes yes.

Right again! He's just not conservative enough IMO.

I don't have time to finish the rest...Tap class is soon:lol:

Yes, excuse me while I leave my fat-cat upper middle-class home and drive around in my overblown Ameri-nadian car designed to symbolize all that is wrong with America on my overblown budget eating massive amounts of food along the way and just being wastful in general. All because my father got me to where I am. Boo hoo.
Basicly, I like you James and I will excuse your comments due to your age and the fact that you have not yet been out on your own working for a living instead of spending daddy's money.

You will find, in time, that the world is not such a simple place and that simple
cut and dried, all or nothing, political positions rarely make sense.

You are probably better educated and well read than most your age, but experience is a great teacher too.

Whether or not you agree with the content my post is not as important as the fact that it made you think!

Enjoy your Tap class!
:lol:

Best Regards,

David

[woaface]

Lemme guess... Fox Network.Nope, he was talking about his news outlet in fact.

David, I appreciate that. I don't live out on my own yet but I was kidding about my dad's money. My dad, in the last year has bought me two things only. 1 tank of gas and a new TV for christmas.

I know how hard it is to keep my money straight and I've had to pay for almost every thing that I WANT with my own EARNED money. I work for my mother in her business and I also wash cars for my neighbors, which will in the next month spread to a neighborhood business that I've planned, funded, and worked for my self.

But I get what you're sayin'. Thanks again...I'm barely ready to rippen. But soon I'll be out and about myself.

Yes Gordon, fast food, loads and loads and loads of McDonalds!

I can only stand Arby's by the way, I gave up on fast food when I got sick off of some Jack In The Box.

[Smokie]

Hi Smokie!

Yours is not the first post to warn about the dangers of discussing politics here. I haven't said this before, but your (and others') fear of political discussion at MM.net makes me wonder what is talked about when MM owners get together. Is it Marauder/Nascar/garage talk, all the time?

I think that MM.net members are all wise enough to know how to keep it civil, whether it is about politics, modifications... or even oil ;)
I made a statement about a newspaper and an organization
This was the response:

What backwards kind of place are you from anyway.

Have you ever read any newspaper on a regular basis?

Even 'car guys' like us are supposed to think!

Put that bottle of ole number 7 down, get off your sister, and wake up!

If this is your idea of civil; I disagree. This is a personal attack, vulgar, highly offensive and uncalled for.

[hitchhiker]

I don't think everybody is getting screwed, we have the highest stock and home ownership (over 1/2 of families) at any time in our history.

The over whelming majority of CEO's work extremely hard ( 80 hour weeks is not unusual ) and earn the money they are paid. If the CEO's fail many more loose their jobs then just the CEO.
The majority of CEO's work other people hard! Who sold you a bill of goods?

Because they (CEO's) typically spend much of their time traveling, eating, socalizing, speaking, and lobbying, their work and private lives often blend.

You are correct in the historical sense. Under previous administrations we have enjoyed amazing wealth and prosperity. However, previous administrations were working for Americans, not India, China, and Halliburton.

The policies and practices in place under this administration will soon mitigate past success as CEO's continue to send well paying jobs overseas and relocate corporate charters to foreign countries to avoid paying a fair share of taxes. They are very busy with their agenda of privitizing wealth and foisting all debt and responsibility upon the public!

Just as the current crop of neo-cons denied unemployment benefits to those out of work and are right now trying to pass CAFTA which is NAFTA on steroids. Bush's proposal to open all jobs to world competition will assure that American workers are the primary victims in the global race to the bottom.

The neo-cons assault on the standard of living enjoyed by the last two generations of Americans is now just hitting its stride. Another term for Bush will ruin American lives for decades!

You will commonly find this disclaimer on most prospectus statements:

Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Rome and England were great once too!

Best Regards,

David

[MapleLeafMerc]

I made a statement about a newspaper and an organization
This was the response:

What backwards kind of place are you from anyway.

Have you ever read any newspaper on a regular basis?

Even 'car guys' like us are supposed to think!

Put that bottle of ole number 7 down, get off your sister, and wake up!

If this is your idea of civil; I disagree. This is a personal attack, vulgar, highly offensive and uncalled for.

Smokie, the timing of that comment, shortly after mine, made me feel a little foolish for saying we could be civil toward one another. I agree that it was offensive. How about it, hitchhiker? No one intended to impugn an entire state.

[hitchhiker]

Smokie, the timing of that comment, shortly after mine, made me feel a little foolish for saying we could be civil toward one another. I agree that it was offensive. How about it, hitchhiker? No one intended to impugn an entire state.

OK

I did over-do it a bit. Your point and Smokies are well taken.

I just get tired of the constant California bashing.

Actually I like a little ole number 7 brain cleaning about twice a year!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I did make some points in my post which I think are quite valid.

I did not initiate this thread, but after the 'California bashing' I felt I needed to jump in. I have relatives in central and southern states and I know full well what they think of California and we have some rather lively discussions at times.

I am not going to contribute further to this thread and I assume that Logan will probably delete it when he has time. It really does not belong on this forum.

Best Regards,

David

[rookie1]

I did not initiate this thread, but after the 'California bashing' I felt I needed to jump in. I have relatives in central and southern states and I know full well what they think of California and we have some rather lively discussions at times.
Best Regards,
David

Your governor can beat the crap out of their governors any day of the week!!

[MapleLeafMerc]

Thanks for that, David. Many would not bother to clear the air as you have. I still believe that it is possible to have conversations like this without things getting out of hand. After all, how hard can it be to make posts as though you were going to meet the person next week?

Having said that, I do believe we shall disagree about George W. Bush. I think he has been as good for America in the war on terrorism as Ronald Reagan was in defeating the evil empire known as the Soviet Union.

[BillyGman]

Having said that, I do believe we shall disagree about George W. Bush. I think he has been as good for America in the war on terrorism as Ronald Reagan was in defeating the evil empire known as the Soviet Union. I agree w/Mapleleaf on that. I DO think that there's more that should be done about our borders being so porous, but many presidents have been guily of not doing enough about that. So Bush isn't the only one.

[sailsmen]

12 month GDP growth 5.0+% vs EU of .4%. 12 month Unemploment lower then the past 3 decades.

If you think more government or protectionism is the answer look at Japan or New Zeland or South America.

http://www.hillsdale.edu/newimprimis/2004/april/default.htm

How many CEO's bring their children to these "social" funtions?

[MapleLeafMerc]

Thanks for that link, sailsmen!

"When a reform government was elected in 1984, it identified three problems: too much spending, too much taxing and too much government"

Beginning, middle, and end of the biggest problem facing civilized, freedom loving societies today.

[junehhan]

Maybe i'm jumping on late, but what kind of credibility does a paper like the LA Times have? That paper is probably one of the most biased and furthest to the left on the political spectrum than hardly any other paper out there. Hitchhiker, as far as this goes, what kind of backwards place are you from? With some of those comments you make, are you calling a bunch of us white trash? I find this humerous, but liberal social elitists like yourself seem to be more interested in calling people names, and saying all manner of inappropriate things against them instead of doing what real civilized people do. I thought this thread was pretty civilized for a political thread till you came along and turned it into a nasty 4th grade level argument. BTW, what in the hell are you, some sort of politic police on this forum? Anytime a political thread seems to pop up, you seem to have some sort of critisicm about it like we are too frickin dumb to hold a civilized conversation. In your post, I have seen nothing more than a bunch of name calling and nasty stereotyping instead of logical debate. Go ahead and call someone a fat-cat not knowing a single DAMN thing about their life at all. A lot of successful people became successful because they worked their frickin asses off. You obviously don't know these people, and yet you spew all manner of invective against them. If you plan on critisizing and calling someone a name, I think it's time that you justify it with facts.

[Patrick]

Maybe i'm jumping on late, but what kind of credibility does a paper like the LA Times have? That paper is probably one of the most biased and furthest to the left on the political spectrum than hardly any other paper out there. Hitchhiker, as far as this goes, what kind of backwards place are you from? With some of those comments you make, are you calling a bunch of us white trash? I find this humerous, but liberal social elitists like yourself seem to be more interested in calling people names, and saying all manner of inappropriate things against them instead of doing what real civilized people do. I thought this thread was pretty civilized for a political thread till you came along and turned it into a nasty 4th grade level argument. BTW, what in the hell are you, some sort of politic police on this forum? Anytime a political thread seems to pop up, you seem to have some sort of critisicm about it like we are too frickin dumb to hold a civilized conversation. In your post, I have seen nothing more than a bunch of name calling and nasty stereotyping instead of logical debate. Go ahead and call someone a fat-cat not knowing a single DAMN thing about their life at all. A lot of successful people became successful because they worked their frickin asses off. You obviously don't know these people, and yet you spew all manner of invective against them. If you plan on critisizing and calling someone a name, I think it's time that you justify it with facts.
:up: :up: :up:

[merc406]

You guys are doin way to much thinkin here.

About being watched, who gives a crap, if your not doing anything wrong their's nothin to worry about, and if you think your being watched, I say give 'em something to watch. :rasta: :rasta: :bandit:

[woaface]

That was well said Junehan. That was good!


Now I don't want everything to go to a Brave New World the government knows what you do where you go when and what kind of coke cans you buy. I mean, for the sake of all things great and small it's a waste of GOOD taxpayer money and a lot of people don't need to be watched anyway. But I'm not going to run around wearing an aluminum hat waving a sign causing mass hysteria over it.

[hitchhiker]

Maybe i'm jumping on late, but what kind of credibility does a paper like the LA Times have? That paper is probably one of the most biased and furthest to the left on the political spectrum than hardly any other paper out there. Hitchhiker, as far as this goes, what kind of backwards place are you from? With some of those comments you make, are you calling a bunch of us white trash? I find this humerous, but liberal social elitists like yourself seem to be more interested in calling people names, and saying all manner of inappropriate things against them instead of doing what real civilized people do. I thought this thread was pretty civilized for a political thread till you came along and turned it into a nasty 4th grade level argument. BTW, what in the hell are you, some sort of politic police on this forum? Anytime a political thread seems to pop up, you seem to have some sort of critisicm about it like we are too frickin dumb to hold a civilized conversation. In your post, I have seen nothing more than a bunch of name calling and nasty stereotyping instead of logical debate. Go ahead and call someone a fat-cat not knowing a single DAMN thing about their life at all. A lot of successful people became successful because they worked their frickin asses off. You obviously don't know these people, and yet you spew all manner of invective against them. If you plan on critisizing and calling someone a name, I think it's time that you justify it with facts.:bs: :bs: :bs:


Junehhan must have just discovered this thread and thinks that bashing me will alter the truth about George W. Bush.

This is funny!

I am not a liberal. I am a Republican calling George Bush et al. the lying thieves and false patriots that they actually are!

Shall I assume that you are nothing more than a dupe of the neocons?

Hypocrites like Newt Gingritch, etc.

I am a Republican in the tradition of Reagan, bless his soul, not the thieving neocons like Bush who are driving this country into ruin.

It's too bad that you (Junehhan) can't think for himself and has to resort to attacking me to vent his frustrations.

As for Junehhan's recent cheerleaders in today's posts to this thread. You are mostly quite young and are mostly just parroting the opinions of your parents.

When you begin working in the real world instead of just living off of Daddy
you will have more appreciation for those who's lives are being ruined by the neocons sending out jobs to China, India, and elsewhere; and by the wholesale transfer of debt to the middle class while raiding the United States Tresury for themselves.

When this bunch of Halliburtonesque thieves are out of office, I will again embrace my Rebublican roots.

How many Billion will they (Bush et al.) steal before we get them out?

Best Regards,

David

[woaface]

......sigh:alone:

[hitchhiker]

That was well said Junehan. That was good!


Now I don't want everything to go to a Brave New World the government knows what you do where you go when and what kind of coke cans you buy. I mean, for the sake of all things great and small it's a waste of GOOD taxpayer money and a lot of people don't need to be watched anyway. But I'm not going to run around wearing an aluminum hat waving a sign causing mass hysteria over it.

Sad!

:shake:

Think for yourself James!

Best Regards,

David

[woaface]

Well David, my dream car is a Marauder, that's pretty damn close:lol:

[HotrodMerc]

Thanks for the info. and insight on an important, hopefully bipartisan, issue, particularly the article by MM, and the pt./counterpoint by Rookie1. CJH

[junehhan]

I'm not the one critisizing other people here. What I however am doing, is exposing you for the hypocrit and social elitist snob that you are making yourself out to be. You keep calling people thieves and false patriots, but let's see some evidence to back up your claim? I'm not the one here claiming a conspiracy here, and you my friend, are the one who needs to defend your baseless accusations IMHO. Face it, there are some people that are more or less known as "RINO's." These are people who are more or less republicans in name only, who use the title to try to belong, but share no ideals or views with them. Like I said, this reply only represents the shallow-ness of your character as I tried to expose something you've been doing for a long time, and now you go to your traditional ways of attacking people who expose your hypocritic ideals. Pretty original, by trying to say I don't think for myself, since I guess according to how you think, I must be too dumb to think for myself. Oh yeah, and pretty original for attacking some of the younger members of this forum like they are too young to be able to think for themself. According to you, they must be too dumb or something to have an independant thought process.

Oh, and while you are on your high horse of arrogance pretending to be socially elite to everyone else, many of us here live in the real world, and work in the REAL frickin world dude. I'm still a student, but I have worked some of the crummiest labor jobs out there and still hold a real job to get through school, and pay for my Marauder, and to pay to maintain MY Marauder, and to pay for other costs, and to pay to insure in Marauder. Don't tell me that I don't live in the real ****ing world, or that I can't ****ing think for myself. You also state all of these accusations and don't quote any facts to prove them. What you fail to realize is that many of these issues go a lot deeper than what you seem to think. I have sat by watching you spew baseless accusations against other individuals on this forum like Sherriff without posting any facts, so I say either frickin PUT UP, or SHUT the **** up. I'm not the one spewing accusations at everything here, and when you accuse someone of doing something, you need to support it with facts, because talk is cheap.

:bs: :bs: :bs:


Junehhan must have just discovered this thread and thinks that basking me will alter the truth about George W. Bush.

This is funny!

I am not a liberal. I am a Republican calling George Bush et al. the lying thieves and false patriots that they actually are!

Shall I assume that you are nothing more than a dupe of the neocons?

Hypocrites like Newt Gingritch, etc.

I am a Republican in the tradition of Reagan, bless his soul, not the thieving neocons like Bush who are driving this country into ruin.

It's too bad that you (Junehhan) can't think for himself and has to resort to attacking me to vent his frustrations.

As for Junehhan's recent cheerleaders in today's posts to this thread. You are mostly quite young and are mostly just parroting the opinions of your parents.

When you begin working in the real world instead of just living off of Daddy
you will have more appreciation for those who's lives are being ruined by the neocons sending out jobs to China, India, and elsewhere; and by the wholesale transfer of debt to the middle class while raiding the United States Tresury for themselves.

When this bunch of Halliburtonesque thieves are out of office, I will again embrace my Rebublican roots.

How many Billion will they (Bush et al.) steal before we get them out?

Best Regards,

David

[RCSignals]

But I'm not going to run around wearing an aluminum hat .......
That's good, because a copper hat would be better

[woaface]

I'm not the one critisizing other people here. What I however am doing, is exposing you for the hypocrit and social elitist snob that you are making yourself out to be. You keep calling people thieves and false patriots, but let's see some evidence to back up your claim? I'm not the one here claiming a conspiracy here, and you my friend, are the one who needs to defend your baseless accusations IMHO. Face it, there are some people that are more or less known as "RINO's." These are people who are more or less republicans in name only, who use the title to try to belong, but share no ideals or views with them. Like I said, this reply only represents the shallow-ness of your character as I tried to expose something you've been doing for a long time, and now you go to your traditional ways of attacking people who expose your hypocritic ideals. Pretty original, by trying to say I don't think for myself, since I guess according to how you think, I must be too dumb to think for myself. Oh yeah, and pretty original for attacking some of the younger members of this forum like they are too young to be able to think for themself. According to you, they must be too dumb or something to have an independant thought process.

Oh, and while you are on your high horse of arrogance pretending to be socially elite to everyone else, many of us here live in the real world, and work in the REAL frickin world dude. I'm still a student, but I have worked some of the crummiest labor jobs out there and still hold a real job to get through school, and pay for my Marauder, and to pay to maintain MY Marauder, and to pay for other costs, and to pay to insure in Marauder. Don't tell me that I don't live in the real ****ing world, or that I can't ****ing think for myself. You also state all of these accusations and don't quote any facts to prove them. What you fail to realize is that many of these issues go a lot deeper than what you seem to think. I have sat by watching you spew baseless accusations against other individuals on this forum like Sherriff without posting any facts, so I say either frickin PUT UP, or SHUT the **** up. I'm not the one spewing accusations at everything here, and when you accuse someone of doing something, you need to support it with facts, because talk is cheap.I'd give you a up, but I might not be thinking independantly.:D:rock:

[Haggis]

I'd give you a up, but I might not be thinking independantly.:D:rock:


James remember if you don't flow with the masses your wrong :rolleyes: , we can't have anyone voicing their opinions if they have not been preapproved.

Oh and James you are being watched by Kathy and myself and everyone eles here who cares about you. Keep up the good work. :up:


I'd give you a up, but I might not be thinking independantly.

I'll do it for you then James. Junehhan nice reply :up:

[hitchhiker]

I'm not the one critisizing other people here. What I however am doing, is exposing you for the hypocrit and social elitist snob that you are making yourself out to be. You keep calling people thieves and false patriots, but let's see some evidence to back up your claim? I'm not the one here claiming a conspiracy here, and you my friend, are the one who needs to defend your baseless accusations IMHO. Face it, there are some people that are more or less known as "RINO's." These are people who are more or less republicans in name only, who use the title to try to belong, but share no ideals or views with them. Like I said, this reply only represents the shallow-ness of your character as I tried to expose something you've been doing for a long time, and now you go to your traditional ways of attacking people who expose your hypocritic ideals. Pretty original, by trying to say I don't think for myself, since I guess according to how you think, I must be too dumb to think for myself. Oh yeah, and pretty original for attacking some of the younger members of this forum like they are too young to be able to think for themself. According to you, they must be too dumb or something to have an independant thought process.

Oh, and while you are on your high horse of arrogance pretending to be socially elite to everyone else, many of us here live in the real world, and work in the REAL frickin world dude. I'm still a student, but I have worked some of the crummiest labor jobs out there and still hold a real job to get through school, and pay for my Marauder, and to pay to maintain MY Marauder, and to pay for other costs, and to pay to insure in Marauder. Don't tell me that I don't live in the real ****ing world, or that I can't ****ing think for myself. You also state all of these accusations and don't quote any facts to prove them. What you fail to realize is that many of these issues go a lot deeper than what you seem to think. I have sat by watching you spew baseless accusations against other individuals on this forum like Sherriff without posting any facts, so I say either frickin PUT UP, or SHUT the **** up. I'm not the one spewing accusations at everything here, and when you accuse someone of doing something, you need to support it with facts, because talk is cheap.

:bs: in the extreme!

Your slip is showing Junehhan!

:nono:

For all we know you could be Sherriff!

He (possibly you) has distinquished himself on several sites, NOT!

You really shouldn't call other people hypocrites when you so clearly demonstrate what it is to be one with your own actions. If you really feel a compelling need to have the last word, you will because I am no longer going
to dignify this thread with more posts. This thread is political in nature and should not be here. I did not start it, I merely put in my bit.

If you think that shouting the same chourus as the rest of the sheep who have had the wool pulled over their eyes by George 'the traitor' W. Bush then
knock yourself out. I guess you 'Bushies' take great comfort in reassuring yourselves that being part of a pack, albeit mis-informed, somehow makes you right!

You even have the audacity to speak of RINO's as if you are the arbiter or true Republicanism. Your are truely a legend in your own mind!
:lol:

I am a Republican in the tradition of Goldwater and Reagan, not a delusional Bush supporter - Big difference!

Like I said before, If you listen you can hear the Bushie-Halliburton-Enron-Tyco folks wheeling the gold out of our tresury right now! Very Sad!

The best part is that despite you and yours, The truth will still be out there!
:up:

Best Regards,

David

[junehhan]

Again, you are assuming what I am without even knowing who I am yet. You have not met with me, and you have certainly not talked over the phone with me, yet you pretend to know what my political affiliation is. I am true democrat in the old school style who has gotten tired of the BS that has engulfed the party. However, I now consider myself an independant if you really care to know. I'm tired of a political party that has reversed itself on everything they used to be known for. Instead of fighting against the status quo, it has become a party tha protects the status quot. Instead of fighting for the rights of real hard working people, they don't seem to care for that anymore as their ideals have changed in the "types" of people they feel they need to protect. Once being champions of freedom of speech, this group seems more interested in restricting freedom of speech unless your opinion coincides with theirs. However buddy, that is more about me than you really need to know. Now you are calling me delusional! I don't know how to respond to that, but it appears that instead of providing pure hard facts, you are going back to name calling. Anyone who is a Bush supporter must happen to be wacked, and delusional according to you, huh? To use your own words, since when did you become the arbitrer that decides who is delusional or not? If I support someone, they will have to have earned my trust and confidence before I decide to give them my vote. Of course, you probably think that i'm too delusional to make sound decisions for myself. Fat cat, neo-con or not, this is one president that has done more in his 3 years, than certain presidents did in their 8 years, unless you consider their extra-marital scandels to be part of their daily work routine. Whether you agree with what our president has done or not, one thing you can agree is that things got done instead of sitting around in stalemate.

BTW, nice job thinking that I might be Sherriff. I have exposed you for being a nasty person to a good individual on the forum, a person who happens to be a good voice for common sense, a person who you have spewed baseless accusations against, and now you are saying that me and him are the same person. One thing you will find out about me, is that i'm a fair person, and I DO NOT sit by while some individuals slander innocent people with no facts to prove that this individual did. Oh, and for a person that seems to act like the politics police on this forum, you sure have a lot to contribute in a controversial manner. There are other ways to add in your opinion of a matter without calling people dumb, delusional, or assuming they are white trash who drink bottles of ole number 7(whatever in the hell that is), and who **** their sisters. The way you entered yourself into this debate, is how you set yourself up buddy. If you would have entered like a civilized person instead of like a 4th grader, then this debate would still have been civilized like it was before you jumped in. I've got news for you buddy, you don't know most of the people here, and while I don't know myself, I don't think anyone here ****s their sister and many will find statements like that highly offensive.


:bs: in the extreme!

Your slip is showing Junehhan!

:nono:

For all we know you could be Sherriff!

He (possibly you) has distinquished himself on several sites, NOT!

You really shouldn't call other people hypocrites when you so clearly demonstrate what it is to be one with your own actions. If you really feel a compelling need to have the last word, you will because I am no longer going
to dignify this thread with more posts. This thread is political in nature and should not be here. I did not start it, I merely put in my bit.

If you think that shouting the same chourus as the rest of the sheep who have had the wool pulled over their eyes by George 'the traitor' W. Bush then
knock yourself out. I guess you 'Bushies' take great comfort in reassuring yourselves that being part of a pack, albeit mis-informed, somehow makes you right!

You even have the audacity to speak of RINO's as if you are the arbiter or true Republicanism. Your are truely a legend in your own mind!
:lol:

I am a Republican in the tradition of Goldwater and Reagan, not a delusional Bush supporter - Big difference!

Like I said before, If you listen you can hear the Bushie-Halliburton-Enron-Tyco folks wheeling the gold out of our tresury right now! Very Sad!

The best part is that despite you and yours, The truth will still be out there!
:up:

Best Regards,

David

[woaface]

Yeah yeah yeah!
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32 31
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32 32

[woaface]

James remember if you don't flow with the masses your wrong :rolleyes: , we can't have anyone voicing their opinions if they have not been preapproved.

Oh and James you are being watched by Kathy and myself and everyone eles here who cares about you. Keep up the good work. :up:



I'll do it for you then James. Junehhan nice reply :up:
Why thank ya Gordon! And Kathy, and everyone else:D Hey I'm almost to the 2,000 post mark.:eek: I'm all growing up!

[hitchhiker]

Again, you are assuming what I am without even knowing who I am yet. You have not met with me, and you have certainly not talked over the phone with me, yet you pretend to know what my political affiliation is. I am true democrat in the old school style who has gotten tired of the BS that has engulfed the party. However, I now consider myself an independant if you really care to know. I'm tired of a political party that has reversed itself on everything they used to be known for. Instead of fighting against the status quo, it has become a party tha protects the status quot. Instead of fighting for the rights of real hard working people, they don't seem to care for that anymore as their ideals have changed in the "types" of people they feel they need to protect. Once being champions of freedom of speech, this group seems more interested in restricting freedom of speech unless your opinion coincides with theirs. However buddy, that is more about me than you really need to know. Now you are calling me delusional! I don't know how to respond to that, but it appears that instead of providing pure hard facts, you are going back to name calling. Anyone who is a Bush supporter must happen to be wacked, and delusional according to you, huh? To use your own words, since when did you become the arbitrer that decides who is delusional or not? If I support someone, they will have to have earned my trust and confidence before I decide to give them my vote. Of course, you probably think that i'm too delusional to make sound decisions for myself. Fat cat, neo-con or not, this is one president that has done more in his 3 years, than certain presidents did in their 8 years, unless you consider their extra-marital scandels to be part of their daily work routine. Whether you agree with what our president has done or not, one thing you can agree is that things got done instead of sitting around in stalemate.

BTW, nice job thinking that I might be Sherriff. I have exposed you for being a nasty person to a good individual on the forum, a person who happens to be a good voice for common sense, a person who you have spewed baseless accusations against, and now you are saying that me and him are the same person. One thing you will find out about me, is that i'm a fair person, and I DO NOT sit by while some individuals slander innocent people with no facts to prove that this individual did. Oh, and for a person that seems to act like the politics police on this forum, you sure have a lot to contribute in a controversial manner. There are other ways to add in your opinion of a matter without calling people dumb, delusional, or assuming they are white trash who drink bottles of ole number 7(whatever in the hell that is), and who **** their sisters. The way you entered yourself into this debate, is how you set yourself up buddy. If you would have entered like a civilized person instead of like a 4th grader, then this debate would still have been civilized like it was before you jumped in. I've got news for you buddy, you don't know most of the people here, and while I don't know myself, I don't think anyone here ****s their sister and many will find statements like that highly offensive.



There you go again...:bounce: Jumping up and down!


You have not exposed anything Junehhan other than yourself!

:lol:

Remember, You initiated the current dialogue.

This dialogue has gone way too far.

Stop trying to analyse me and focus on yourself.

I am sure that all on this site will appreciate it!

I hope you find peace with yourself soon.

Best Regards,

David

[Macon Marauder]

I suggest that this thread be closed/deleted. This sort of thing just attracts the trolls and can bring out the worst in our members.

What's it got to do with Marauders anyway?

[Logan]

Ugh... How the heck did I miss THIS trainwreck?

CLOSED.