Thanks Jerry Barnes!!!! [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 02:38 AM

To Jerry Barnes, and all others who this might concern, I want to thank Jerry, as well as the entire Trilogy company for enabling me via their Trilogy Supercharger kit, to have one of the fastest cars on the street. My primary reason for Supercharging my Marauder is NOT to race people. It was, and is for simply making the car a lot faster to enjoy that power where ever I believe the risks associated w/doing so are at a minimum.

On an open, and completly empty highway in the wee hours of the morning I recently tested my car from 0-60MPH and got an impressive 4.25 seconds!! That's with the P305 drag radial tires installed on the widened back wheels. Not bad for a 4200LB car, uh? And that was done w/out loading up the torque converter nor starting out w/a two foot driving technique at all.

And I won't get into the details, but I've just proved to a challenger, that a Trilogy equipped Marauder (namely mine) can and will out do a 1998 LS-1 engine equipped Camaro SS that has had the cylinder heads ported as well as the intake manifold, and has a bigger than stock camshaft installed also, along with Long tube headers, Flowmaster mufflers, and 3.42 gears in the rear. And that car also has a 6 speed transmission giving him the edge in the transmission department along with the fact that the Camaro is a significantly lighter car.

Everyone who witnesses how great my Marauder moves w/the Trilogy S/Cer now installed, is shocked and surprised. I've hurt some feelings of those who thought that their cars were faster. To the entire Trilogy comapny, I must say that you have a very impressive product, and I will tell car enthusiasts that where ever I go w/my car!!!!

martyo

06-10-2004, 02:43 AM

Let me add this: Jerry, Trilogy and all others who helped out Billy, thank you for making my good friend Billy so happy!! He is a guy that truly deserves it.

Oh yeah, Billy, what time should I pick you up in my new GT?

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 03:19 AM

Just let me know when you want me to come over to wash it for you Marty. (Uhmmm, that is IF it's really a Ford GT, and not a Mustang GT like I've heard that you have).

TAF

06-10-2004, 06:06 AM

Just let me know when you want me to come over to wash it for you Marty. (Uhmmm, that is IF it's really a Ford GT, and not a Mustang GT like I've heard that you have).The only thing "GT" that Marty has at his house...is his "Gut Trimmer" ...which he OBVIOUSLY doesn't use...however, he DOES say he can hang about 6 pairs of pants on it...:D

http://www.zyworld.com/LandonEnterprises/tfw/preowned%20pics/nordic%20track%20skier.JPG

TAF

06-10-2004, 06:10 AM

Sorry for this in your thread Billy ^^^^ but, it was there and I hope it made you smile, my friend.

I want to add, in the spirit of the thread, that I'm thrilled as well for your happiness with your car, my friend. :up:

studio460

06-10-2004, 06:35 AM

WOW! What a GREAT post, Billy!!! BOY, I JUST CAN'T WAIT UNTIL I GET TRILOGIZED!!! Will order my kit in about two months. CAN'T WAIT! CAN'T WAIT! CAN'T WAIT! Oh man, all I've EVER wanted to do in this car was to beat a Camaro SS!!! That was my dream car (the SS) until I met a girl with kids and it was no longer and option. I had it all picked out . . . a black 2002 SS with EVERYTHING. Bilstein suspension, SLP center exhaust, etc. EVERYTHING, out the door was only gonna be about $31K from NBC's fleet dealer. But when I took the kids to the dealer, they wouldn't fit in the backseat!!! So it's GREAT to hear your story about whooping the SS! A 4.25-second 0-60?!?!?!?!? That's ******ing AWESOME, BillyG!!!

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 08:50 AM

Todd, that's quite alright that you jumped in here pal. No biggie. Marty deserved that anyway. I haven't any problem w/keeping things lighthearted around here.

SHOOTER, yeah, Camaro SS=toast when it comes to a Trilogy S/Ced Marauder. I KNOW that for certain because of what I experienced merely 48 hours ago. And keep in mind that the 98 CamaroSS that I'm speaking of is NOT even stock either. The owner has put $6,000 of modifications in it to make it faster. For that amount of $$ he shoulda just S/Ced it, and then he would've beaten me, since that is a 350 cubic inch engine the Camaro has w/excellent flowing cylinder heads. His mistake. I would have no reason to say this if it wasn't true. I'm merely a Trilogy customer. That's all. And the mighty modified LS-1 equipped Camaro SS fell in defeat. Drag radials,6 speed manual transmission and all.

And keep in mind that all is I have is the stock Supercharger pulley that came w/the Trilogy kit, and even though I've had it dyno tested, I've never even had the car Dyno tuned by anyone. I have nothing but good to say about the Trilogy Supercharger kit. And for those of you who have been around here awhile, you know that I usually am outspoken and pull no punches when it comes to mods that I don't like.

drgnrdr33

06-10-2004, 10:54 AM

BillyGman - you are killing me. Every time I read your S/C posts I have to clean the drool off my keyboard.

I got a few pobs with getting a Trilogy:
1) cash
2) Wife and 16 yr old son I'd like to keep intact, along with the MM. I'd rather not unwrap them from a tree. I'm not sure I'll ever let my son drive the Marauder, even N/A, but the wife does about once a week.

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 11:01 AM

I don't think allowing your son to drive the Marauder when it's S/Ced would be a good idea either since he lacks experience behind the wheel. But you can always remove the S/Cer belt before giving him the keys, and it will be a N/A Marauder until you put it back on. As far as your wife sriving it, the car is perfectly the same to drive when you give it less than half pedal. It's only when you get into the gas pedal halfway and more that you're into boost, and you feel that POWER!!! otherwise your car is completely the same and is as tame and driveable as it always was.

This is a class set-up. This modification will do nothing negative to your driveability on the street. This isn't like having a lumpy camshaft that causes your engine to stumble at low-end RPM or the car's computer to be thrown off or any of that. There's nothing like Supercharging for a serious HP increase when it's done correct. And the Trilogy kit will give your engine more power and acceleration in ALL RPM's. When I brought my car to get it dyno tested after the Supercharger install, the guy at the Local Dyno place after performing two dyno pulls w/my car turned to me and said "This car is NO JOKE!!"....and this guy doesn't even know about Trilogy Motorsports nor Lidio.

drgnrdr33

06-10-2004, 11:18 AM

There you go again. Gotta clean the kbd.

Ahh Trilogy :rolleyes:

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 11:20 AM

LOL.....remember what that old NIKE commercial used to say? "JUST DO IT".......

I'm sure glad that I did...... I wasn't dissapointed.

sailsmen

06-10-2004, 11:43 AM

Nice kill on the SS.

I raced one at the track and on a hot 90+* nite he ran a 12.6. I don't think his was 100% stock, but I don't know what he had.

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 12:06 PM

I believe the mags list them as running 13.2 bone stock. That's prbably also w/street tires too.

darebren

06-10-2004, 01:37 PM

billy, i used to live in Easton, CT, and worked in Stamford.. you around that area? you'll get alot of chances against those Porsches around there man..

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 04:24 PM

Nope, closer to New Haven. Not many Porsches around here.

MikesMerc

06-10-2004, 04:39 PM

Nice win on the SS Billy :up:

I think a few folks thought Dave (MI2QWK4U) and myself were a bit over the top with our praise of the Trilogy kit. But, we were only being honest. You can attest to that I'm sure:D

The "kills" I've enjoyed here around the Motor City have been nothing short of awesome!! Like you, I don't go out looking for races, but when the opportunity to set the record straight with the ricers, pony cars, vettes, porches, and muscle cars of yor, I take it.

Nothing sweeter than a vette kill either. The look of complete shock and dejection is great. Nothing more sweet the kicking a little sand in the face of the guy whose used to doing all the kickin...know what I mean?

Congrats again...I'm glad you decided to go with the kit. I've not heard of anyone disappointed in it.

Glenn

06-10-2004, 05:20 PM

Enjoy reading your posts as always. My only regret is that I will never be able to own a S/C MM. The only real Mod any MM owner needs is ONLY a S/C MM and nothing else. But, I have to settle on trying to achieve 300 RWHP and be satisfied. I have finally decided on the MS shortly headers and hi-flow "X" pipe after only changing my mind 3 complete times between Kook's, DR and MR. S/C MM is the only way to go, forget everything else. If I can only win the Lotto. Good luck with your S/C and keep posting.

Glenn

BillyGman

06-10-2004, 05:26 PM

Thanks for the kind words Glenn.

studio460

06-11-2004, 12:56 AM

Hey, BillyG!

Okay, I know you have the 4.56s on still, right? Do you think I'll be able to whoop a stock Camaro SS with ONLY my 9.5 PSI Trilogy blower, the Stallion TC, and my (effective) 3.76 rear end (due to the lower-profile Nittos) and ONLY the 255/45/18s on my unwidened rear wheels?

BillyGman

06-11-2004, 01:17 AM

That would depend on how much traction those tires supply. I doubt the car will hook as good as it would w/the P305's, but who can tell unless they try it? If the Camaro in question is stock, I believe you'll stil beat him as long as your tires supply better traction than the factory stock ones do.

Jerry Barnes

06-11-2004, 06:22 AM

BillyG,

I really enjoyed reading your post!!! When I post my experiences with our cars it always sounds self-serving, but I really enjoy driving our cars and the fun I have with other people. You have now entered into a serious fraternity of gearheads that get off on a 4,200lb car whooping butt!!!

Our guys at Trilogy are some of the best engineers in the business and the results speak for themselves. I cannot thank Michal, Mirek, Ben, Chenna and Jiri for all of their help in making this package such a great engine modification. And I cannot forget our partner Lidio for the outstanding work that he has done in tuning this thing to be a giant killer!!!

Everyday someone relays a story about their experience with a Trilogy Marauder and it really bring smiles to our faces. We continue to give test drives to people that live locally and the response is always the same, "this is unbelieveable!!!!!!" or "this is the fastest car I have ever been in". I love hearing that from people.

We have had such a great time and made so many new friends as a result of doing this project. Words can't describe the experience.

I should also mention, that because of the kind words many of you have given us, we are selling these things like hot cakes. Who knows, we might even make a profit some day!

And who can forget our loyal customers like Dave, Mike, Nathan, Dante, Rick, Logan, Bill, Virgil, Bob, etc., etc., etc. Everyone has been great and we have built great friendships, some cool car clubs and planned some outstanding events as a result. So, Logan keep up the great work on the site, we love to continue to share our experiences.

All I can say is, Billy, start looking for bigger giants, it only gets better!!!

Congratulations,

Your buddies at Trilogy

Logan

06-11-2004, 06:49 AM

We love you too Jerry. :up:

MARAUDER S/C #5

06-12-2004, 10:29 PM

We love you too Jerry. :up:
:up:..........:burnout: :banana2: :P

David Morton

06-15-2004, 11:52 PM

... But you can always remove the S/Cer belt before giving him the keys, and it will be a N/A Marauder until you put it back on.... Can you do that? Have you actually done that? I thought the Eaton M113 was a roots type blower so removing the belt would cause the engine vacuum to have to drive the vanes essentially making the unit a pretty big restriction to intake air flow. Is the chip designed to handle that kind of restriction?

Just a thought.

BillyGman

06-16-2004, 12:21 AM

I think you must have typed that wrong. it's a Eaton M112 S/Cer. There is no "M113" one. Anyway, you'll never catch me w/the blower belt off my car. it's too much fun driving the car w/it on for me to want to take it off. But to answer your question, the Eaton generation IV S/Cers (which includes the M112 model) all have a bypass valve which stays open until you're into boost, so ordinarily your engine doesn't have to work to turn the S/cer vanes. but mybe you would have to disconnect one of the vacume lines leading to the blower in addition to the blower belt. I guess Jerry would be the one to answer that question. But as far as I know, it can be done.

I welcome Jerry or anyone else who knows otherwise to correct me on this if I'm mistaking.

MikesMerc

06-16-2004, 05:13 AM

Nope....cannot be done.

As long as the supercharger belt is on, the screws are turning and the blower is producing boost. Even if you are not in the boost and are running in vaccum the blower is compressing.

What the by pass valve does is allow the compressed charge to exit the blower without having to enter the motor, and instead the air is recirculated through the blower. Because the engine cannot use the boost when under part throttle (vacuum) conditions, extreme heat build up can result as there is no place for the compressed charge to go and "backs up" back into the blower causing the blower to work much harder. By recirculating the air charge, the back pressure on the blower is alleviated and cooler temps result.

Old superchargers used to have what is called a blow off. This would evacuate the unused boost under part throttle condtions. However, because most new motors are Mass Air motors, the air is measured by the PCM and is used to calculate fuel and timing curves. If the air was just "blown off' the PCM could not provide the right fuel/timing and the engine would not run right becuase of the "missing" air.. The by pass, on the other hand, just recirculates the air, so no air exits the system and the formulas in the PCM remain intact.

When your foot goes into the pedal, and the motor sees no vaccum, the by pass closes and the air charge goes fully into the motor. It's the vacuum that holds the by pass open.

To run the car without the belt on would not work. The blower would become a major air restriction. Without the screws turning (which would NOT turn much at all, if at all, due to the air being sucked through it) the SC is a huge bottleneck.

BillyGman

06-16-2004, 11:51 AM

That isn't in accordance w/what I've read about the Eaton generation IV S/Cers (which is what the model M112 is). The rors or vanes are turning all the time, but merely free wheeling when the bypass valve is open. therefore the engine is NOT receiving any increased volume of air while that valve is open. However, there might be a restriction when it closes IF the belt isn't on to drive them. I'm not sure about that part.

MikesMerc

06-16-2004, 03:56 PM

The rors or vanes are turning all the time, but merely free wheeling when the bypass valve is open. therefore the engine is NOT receiving any increased volume of air while that valve is open.

Actually, a properly designed By Pass does not completely eliminate all boost pressure. The By Pass in question is just there to prevent the blower from seeing significant (heat generating) back pressure. Some small amount of compressed charge is always there....this is readily apparent with roots blowers that have boost available "at the crack of the throttle" which they are famous for.

The bottom line is that as long as the belt is on, the screws are turning...period. As they turn they produce an equal amount of air flow regardless of whether or not the by pass is open or closed. The by pass does not change that. The By pass only allows for boost to "build up" or "beeld off" inside the blower discharge.

When under part throttle, the vacuum holds the By Pass open and bleeds off (some but not all ) of the air charge and the air is recycled back through the blower in a loop. When the throttle is opened to the point of zero vacuum, the By Pass closes and all the air charge builds inside the blower discharge area which creates significant boost.

I suppose what you mean by "free wheeling" is that the By Pass allows for significantly reduced back pressure on the blower rotors allowing them to turn "easier". Although this is indeed true to an small extent, there is always some parasitic horsepower loss on the motor having to turn the rotors of the supercharger and pump the air. The by pass isn't there to relieve the blower from "pumping", it's there to reduce back pressure (boost) inside the blower discharge thereby significantly reducing blower temperatures.

It is never recommended to run the car without the blower belt as it acts as a significant bottleneck.

BillyGman

06-16-2004, 04:13 PM

It is never recommended to run the car without the blower belt as it acts as a significant bottleneck.

__________________I've never read that anywhere, but since I cannot say for certain that it isn't true, and because I guess it really doesn't matter since I don't know if there's anyone on here who's actually planning on doing that anyway, I won't claim that you're wrong about that. However you do bring up some intersting points. But I will add that according to my studies concerning the bypass valve it was developed to allow for some decent gas mileage on a daily driven car while not under boost. The air charge is allowed to flow around the rotors within the S/Cer by "Bypassing" them. Thus the term "Bypass" valve. But I guess we've beaten this to death already, and in the longrun, it really doesn't matter cuz I'm leavin the belt on regardless. Now that I have that power under the hood of my Marauder, I wouldn't want to part w/it even temporarily. I'm sure you can relate to that yourself.

Thanks for your input. It's been very thought provoking.

MikesMerc

06-16-2004, 04:50 PM

A SC guru I am not...I admit that:) But I have picked up a thing or two about the subject as this Trilogy MM is my fourth supercharged car I've had in the last 8 years. The first 3 I installed myself as well as had professional tweaking and tuning along the way. I've done just about all of it now...boost retards, boost pumps, By passes, blow offs, inter coolers, and all the other neccessary supporting goodies to keep blowers happy and efficient.

....Not that I am trying to say that I am right....but I am:D

By passes recirculate boost (by bypassing the motor)
Blow offs let boost discharge into the atmosphere.

No air flow ever by passes the helix rotors on an eaton blower. That is fact.

Just FYI and for anyome else doing blower research.

BillyGman

06-16-2004, 05:54 PM

okay Mikey......that definately is something that you've had that many S/Ced vehicles. What were they? And where does the Marauder rank among them as far as power to the wheels? It was challenging for me to install the Trilogy kit on my car myself, but that instruction manual it comes with is great! Did you install your by yourself?

I thought I remembered Jerry Barnes somewhere on here saying that the belt can be taken off, but I could be wrong about that.

David Morton

06-17-2004, 10:13 PM

BillyGman

06-17-2004, 10:20 PM

Thanks Billy and Mike for picking up on this subject. I was trying to get some discussion going because 'somebody' had commented that they could just take the belt off and let the 16yr old drive the car as if it had never been modified. I remember the days of the GMC 6-71 and 4-71 blowers and am quite familiar with the roots type Buick is using as I worked for them in 93-94. I don't think you could get the car to start with the belt off. Billy, why not take the belt off and try? i was the one who said that, and i thought that you could. I'm still not convinced that you can't. I'll tell you what, why don't you S/C YOUR Marauder, and then you can take the belt off if you want to and get back to us as to what happens if anything. I've already previously stated that now that I have had a S/ced marauder for a couple months, I wouldn't want anything less.

I didn't mean any harm by my statements. And I don't expect anyone here to take my word nor anyone else's word about S/cers or about anything else unless they do their homework like I did mine before my S/Cer purchase.

David Morton

06-18-2004, 11:25 AM

i was the one who said that, and i thought that you could. I'm still not convinced that you can't. I'll tell you what, why don't you S/C YOUR Marauder, and then you can take the belt off if you want to and get back to us as to what happens if anything. I've already previously stated that now that I have had a S/ced marauder for a couple months, I wouldn't want anything less.

I didn't mean any harm by my statements. And I don't expect anyone here to take my word nor anyone else's word about S/cers or about anything else unless they do their homework like I did mine before my S/Cer purchase.We cool. I might try it when I get my T-S/C, but it would only be to prove a point. Although the idea of a Jekyl and Hyde car is appealing (I would be stretching it to call a stock Marauder 'Jekyl') I think I'll just be getting my daughter a used Crown Vic when she turns 16. She's only 13 now and likes riding with daddy. You ought to see her face when I shift it into manual low at 35mph in traffic and leap around somebody like a, well, a panther! I'd worry about her driving this thing to the store for some item I need to finish supper. I can see it now, "I'll be right back dad." three minutes later, "I'm back!" and I can smell the adrenaline on her skin. :eek:

mdmarauder

07-16-2004, 10:54 AM