I installed front Moog springs and cars sits too high

[metro1998]

I installed front Moog springs (same thickness and coils) and cars sits too high (drivers ball joint was shot and then found passenger side spring broke at bottom) , the car was only done today, even if it settles an inch in the next month that ain't gonna be where I was when I started, I can fit my fist (thumb up pinky down) between the tire and wheel well. And that's with rear tires all around. I thought Moog was the way to go, now what do I do, I don't even see Motorcraft springs available. Years ago I could call Moog and go over spring options, I lower my 84 MCSS 1.5" with Chevy S10 springs, I worked out perfect, Now I don't see a phone number to do that with a tech, someone else has the number I had.
I couldn't find Bilstein shocks for this car so I went with the KYBs but they seam a little jumpy like when put them on my 84 MCSS, I would get launched off a sharp hill, when I went to Bilsteins, I came out of the seat, the car stayed on the ground.
....that was a little long ... I need help

[RubberCtyRauder]

i dont believe bilstein makes any to fit 03 +, panthers, cut a coil off the spring

[stevengerard]

^^ yep, just cut a coil off the ones you have. maybe just 3/4 of one

[Turbov6Bryan]

I just did the black 03 with 214k

Cut 1 full coil and it's sitting fine, even with 235 55 18, yes 55 up front

[tutbo2256b]

I HAVE Always looked up the spring rates then the front and rear weights of the vehicle to figure ride heights before purchasing springs. currently in my 87 grand marquis run 1000 lb street stock springs in the front and coil overs with 350 lb springs in the rear. the set up actually lowered the car a bit.

[blazen71]

I just did the black 03 with 214k

Cut 1 full coil and it's sitting fine, even with 235 55 18, yes 55 up front

Overall is the ride better? I put new struts and shocks in but reused the 272k mile front springs. I'm not happy with the ride and feel the front springs are just worn out. I'm thinking of doing what you did. Buy new springs and cut a coil. I have the same size front tire as you. If you get a chance can you post a pic of the ride height?

[NATEHAWK]

I recently put in the Monroe HD strut shock/spring combo in the front. This was a upgrade from the stock shocks and stock coils with one coil cut. I felt like the one coil cut looked cool but made the front of the ride sloppy.

I added QA1 adjusted shocks in the rear from the factory rear shocks and I have those set at 5. From the ground to center of the lip of thw wheel well all around my car sits about 29.5in, which I love the ride height. I've had everything done for a month now, the norm "settle" time frame is 4k-5k miles or depends on hows much bounce and rebound the springs have to deal with. I'll get a picture this weekend of how it looks when I pull it out the garage.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/94acbc4f29597616107721d0d3f5db 93.heic

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/9db16c76c04287b09e068060c7996a 8a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/c5a4c4d66dc8379428dbd8299e0515 10.jpg


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[Turbov6Bryan]

Overall is the ride better? I put new struts and shocks in but reused the 272k mile front springs. I'm not happy with the ride and feel the front springs are just worn out. I'm thinking of doing what you did. Buy new springs and cut a coil. I have the same size front tire as you. If you get a chance can you post a pic of the ride height?

It rides great, it feels stock just lowered 1 coil.

The tire does not rub... I posted this earlier and my post disappeared

[blazen71]

It rides great, it feels stock just lowered 1 coil.

The tire does not rub... I posted this earlier and my post disappeared

Perfect. That how mine looks now with worn out springs. I want to keep that same height with the new springs. Thanks for the pic! Did you happen to install without cutting first?

[blazen71]

I recently put in the Monroe HD strut shock/spring combo in the front. This was a upgrade from the stock shocks and stock coils with one coil cut. I felt like the one coil cut looked cool but made the front of the ride sloppy.

I added QA1 adjusted shocks in the rear from the factory rear shocks and I have those set at 5. From the ground to center of the lip of thw wheel well all around my car sits about 29.5in, which I love the ride height. I've had everything done for a month now, the norm "settle" time frame is 4k-5k miles or depends on hows much bounce and rebound the springs have to deal with. I'll get a picture this weekend of how it looks when I pull it out the garage.


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Thanks for the measurement. I'm going to check mine when I get home but am pretty sure its right around 28.5" with uncut springs :eek: Thats how worn they are.

[NATEHAWK]

Thanks for the measurement. I'm going to check mine when I get home but am pretty sure its right around 28.5" with uncut springs :eek: Thats how worn they are.



Cool. Think the average is 29.5-30


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[Turbov6Bryan]

Perfect. That how mine looks now with worn out springs. I want to keep that same height with the new springs. Thanks for the pic! Did you happen to install without cutting first?

No, I knew it was going to look like a 4x4 without cutting the coil.

This car had the worn out springs and was about 1/4 inch taller, so I bought assemblies off rock auto, cut, put back together and installed.

It really rides great.

[blazen71]

No, I knew it was going to look like a 4x4 without cutting the coil.

This car had the worn out springs and was about 1/4 inch taller, so I bought assemblies off rock auto, cut, put back together and installed.

It really rides great.

What is the ride height at now?

[metro1998]

I was able to get in touch with a Moog technician he said the Springs I put in 80668 are for a taxi the correct one is 81098. cutting a spring would be my very last resort it's gotta ride rougher sloppier I see those little cars on the road bouncing all over the place if these don't work I may have to I hope not it'll be awhile but I'll let you know how it works out what a pain in the ass

[blazen71]

Interesting. I see 81098 listed for Grand Marquis and 80668 for Marauder on Rock Auto

[NXSBOB]

I am curious why you thought old springs needed be replaced?

[tutbo2256b]

IF ONE lets their shocks go bad coil springs go south fairly quickly.
I have found lots of mistakes in rock autos listings.

[blazen71]

IF ONE lets their shocks go bad coil springs go south fairly quickly.
I have found lots of mistakes in rock autos listings.
I checked Moog's website. Those are the correct listings. Basically 80668 is the police/taxi version and 81098 is the standard passaenger car version. The airbags also have the same 2 options, standard and Police/Taxi. The Marauder came from the factory with the Police/Taxi version front and rear.

[Turbov6Bryan]

I was able to get in touch with a Moog technician he said the Springs I put in 80668 are for a taxi the correct one is 81098. cutting a spring would be my very last resort it's gotta ride rougher sloppier I see those little cars on the road bouncing all over the place if these don't work I may have to I hope not it'll be awhile but I'll let you know how it works out what a pain in the ass

Rougher and sloppier because of a cut coil?

Fake news

[metro1998]

Started off for wheel alignment and confirm balljoint was going then found the passenger spring was broke (at the bottom coil) sway bar links bad shape/rusted and broke with only a little pressure.... the 80668 make the car look like it's going to the moon, nose is way up in the air (it's raked to the back), The Moog guy seamed to understand right away, I hope the front isn't going to be soft, I'll find out next week. I'll try to upload a picture, can I copy/past onto the quick reply.... as far as cutting the spring, you have to feel a difference in the ride, I see the imports (granted) chopped down (alot maybe two or more coils) and look like a bouncing crappy ride. I haven't trying to get the springs from Ford probably because of cost, I'll call them next week and the Motorcraft dealer by me says the only pair of shocks are in Illinois and $189 each and he don't carry springs....
Question how long do the original shocks last?... to me springs should be changed at 100K at 90K mine were not as strong anymore anyway, so once everything was apart I figure to just replace it all... now headache

[metro1998]

If you have (example) 800lb. spring and cut a coil, it's not 800lbs anymore (it's not fake just reality), maybe it only drops to 750 I don't know and I may have to do it, but as a last resort... I drive my car into turns and don't want a soft left front on a right hand turn... it's not good for my 'pursuit of happiness'. That's just me, if your happy with the cut, then that's all that really counts.

[1Marauder]

I have four panthers (2 Marauder's and 2 Sports) and they all sit at different ride heights stock, which I find bizarre.

I would think the spring coil and strength itself (compression strength) would not change too radically by cutting 1/2 to 1 coil, unless you heated the last coil or two to tap it and flatten the end.

By simply cutting the coil, you are only shortening the coil, not changing its overall thickness and structural rigidity of its spring quality/matric. Of course the coil is now shorter so you are diminishing the overall or total amount of possible compression...

1/2 coil cut netted my MM 3/4 of an inch lowering (max) which was perfect. I installed KYBs... I may try Monroe super duty shocks on next. I noticed no change whatsoever soft/hard/sloppy wise (except the improved lowered center of gravity improvement) due to cutting coil. *Note: If I did diminish my spring from 800 to 760 by cutting 3/4 coil, maybe the firmer shock offset? Car rides a little firmer, I assume due to the shock.

Next week I am cutting 3/4 coil off the RedSled because it sits so high that w 235/50 front and 265/50 rear their is almost negative rake like OP's car. Looking for it to drop 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch (only) in front so that it will simply look like stock Panther.

All of this was to say... Don't worry about cutting the coil. Just don't cut too much.

Btw I did test drive a MM that was "slammed". I recall guy said he cut 1.2 to 2 coils. It drove like a POS! I hated what they had done. And I swore if I ever cut... I'd rather it be .5 inch high, than .5 inch too low.

[tutbo2256b]

If you have (example) 800lb. spring and cut a coil, it's not 800lbs anymore (it's not fake just reality), maybe it only drops to 750 I don't know and I may have to do it, but as a last resort... I drive my car into turns and don't want a soft left front on a right hand turn... it's not good for my 'pursuit of happiness'. That's just me, if your happy with the cut, then that's all that really counts.

cutting THE LENGTH increases the rate i used 650 ish rate springs from a 69 429 torino in many of my old mustangs a third of a coil would raise the rate to 720 i might be off a bit as i have used 1/3 , 1/2 and a full coil cut offs. cutting with a torch can end up weakling the spring

Also increasing the rate might require much heavier shocks to control springs from bouncing.

My 1000 lb rate front springs i use double adjustable QA1 shocks. I had them rebuilt a while back and had forgotten my settings. I set them up at to low of an compression and rebound. Yesterday while installing my summer tires dropped the front shocks and went 2 clicks up on compression and rebound.
now the front end dosent bounce around hitting woopies.

[tutbo2256b]

my summer and winter tires also affect the ride
Winter using 265 x 50 x 15s F and 295 x 50 x 15s R.
Summer 285 x 30 x 18 F and 295 x 35 x 18 R
the winter tires ride best due to the taller rubber section both sets are the same diameter

[metro1998]

Thanks ALL comments are greatly appreciated. I don't know how to get a picture on here... 'URL of your image http://' ?? I have a PNG File (.PNG) or a JPG File (.jpg). I'm not really computer literate.

[metro1998]

Attached file?

[1Marauder]

This exactly what my Sport looks like.

[justbob]

Attached file?




I would be too embarrassed to drive that truck. And after already spending the money already and seeing the outcome I would have slid the jack right back up under there and got my grinder ready..

Did you torque down the A arms with the car in the air by chance?


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[metro1998]

Someone else is doing the work, He should know that but I'll tell him to do that first before changing the springs, but do you really think that's going to lower the front 3"... I'm thinking.. nope.

[RubberCtyRauder]

I don't believe you want to crank the control arms when thry are suspended in air, you want weight of car on them to tighten

[Aerocoupe]

You basically clamp the UCA and LCA in that position when you torque them. Think about it, to remove the factory coil over assembly it is much easier to loosen the LCA bolts so that it will drop more. These are not bearings. You absolutely torque the bolts on the control arms when the suspension is loaded.

And yes cutting the springs does increase the spring rate:
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs/

And if you want the math behind it here you go:
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/

Also, when you cut a spring you need to understand that the factory dampers were designed with a specific spring rate. Now that you have cut the spring you may very well have screwed up the damper/spring combo. If you are going to tinker with spring rates you need to understand how this will affect the damper or have the $$$ to get adjustable dampers. Even then you can get crazy and get custom valved dampers so you can mess with different spring rates but that is usually on race cars. Think Penske here:
https://www.penskeshocks.com/

[justbob]

Someone else is doing the work, He should know that but I'll tell him to do that first before changing the springs, but do you really think that's going to lower the front 3"... I'm thinking.. nope.



Depends on just how tight he tightened the bolts.. and yes it could lower it an easy 1 1/2”. Keep in mind you had new uncut springs installed so matter what it is going to sit tall.

Smashing the bushings down on unsprung suspension and expecting them to simply maneuver back into static ride height isn’t going to happen. It will also chew up the bushings if left and create a stiff ride.


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[tutbo2256b]

LOwering or raising the suspension often requires different length shocks as well as stiffer shock valving. so its best to measure between the shock mounting points with the vehicle sitting on the ground.
tightening the control arms without the vehicle on the ground issue is the factory style bushings metal sleeve has teeth on the ends that engage when the bolt is tightened. Because of this the rubber acts like a torsion spring. it adds enough to the spring rate that installing poly bushings (have no teeth) with stock springs one could find they might want heavier rate springs

[Turbov6Bryan]

When I did the car above, cut one coil, put back together and slid a jack under the lower control arm and jacked it up enough to lift that side off the jack stand a CH
Then tightened up the upper control arm bolts.

It took a week to settle completely

Just put 2000 miles on it going to Woodward..

[Turbov6Bryan]

What is the ride height at now?

The black car with 235 55 18s up front sits at 27.5 and my thumb sideways barely fits between the tire and fender lip

I have a 72k silver birch with a vortech and stock suspension with stock size firestone tires and it sits at 28 inches.

Hope that helps

[blazen71]

The black car with 235 55 18s up front sits at 27.5 and my thumb sideways barely fits between the tire and fender lip

I have a 72k silver birch with a vortech and stock suspension with stock size firestone tires and it sits at 28 inches.

Hope that helps
Yes it helps, thanks! I'm not sure if you said, what springs did you use?

[nopropslaw]

It rides great, it feels stock just lowered 1 coil.

The tire does not rub... I posted this earlier and my post disappearedDid you use regular moogs or the p71 moogs?

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[1Marauder]

You basically clamp the UCA and LCA in that position when you torque them. Think about it, to remove the factory coil over assembly it is much easier to loosen the LCA bolts so that it will drop more. These are not bearings. You absolutely torque the bolts on the control arms when the suspension is loaded.

And yes cutting the springs does increase the spring rate:
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs/

And if you want the math behind it here you go:
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/

Also, when you cut a spring you need to understand that the factory dampers were designed with a specific spring rate. Now that you have cut the spring you may very well have screwed up the damper/spring combo. If you are going to tinker with spring rates you need to understand how this will affect the damper or have the $$$ to get adjustable dampers. Even then you can get crazy and get custom valved dampers so you can mess with different spring rates but that is usually on race cars. Think Penske here:
https://www.penskeshocks.com/


What ends do our springs have?

[Aerocoupe]

The fronts are a tangential end on the bottom and more of a pigtail end on the top. This makes it where you would only remove coils off the bottom of the spring.

I have disassembled the front strut assemblies on my CV IFS to install adjustable coil overs so I am looking at the springs.

[blazen71]

The fronts are a tangential end on the bottom and more of a pigtail end on the top. This makes it where you would only remove coils off the bottom of the spring.

I have disassembled the front strut assemblies on my CV IFS to install adjustable coil overs so I am looking at the springs.

You got it backwards. Bottom is pig tailed. Remove coils from the top.

[Aerocoupe]

I stand corrected. I have parts out to powder coat and got the spring top and bottom backwards. Appreciate the correction and apologies for the misinformation.

[Spectragod]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/c5a4c4d66dc8379428dbd8299e0515 10.jpg


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Uhhhhhhhh, wtf???

[NATEHAWK]

Uhhhhhhhh, wtf???



???? QA1's don't come with the proper spacers you have to either fab up some or use stainless steel nuts. Many guys have done this.


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[1Marauder]

You got it backwards. Bottom is pig tailed. Remove coils from the top.

Recutting 3/4 coil on Wednesday. Looking for 1 inch drop.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Recutting 3/4 coil on Wednesday. Looking for 1 inch drop.

Oem springs?
Do a full coil

[Turbov6Bryan]

Yes it helps, thanks! I'm not sure if you said, what springs did you use?


Did you use regular moogs or the p71 moogs?

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Sorry for the delay, i didnt know you guys posted.

Rockauto is where i got these, these are the ones i purchased.

FCS 1336349 (Economy) Info
Front

$69 BUCKS EACH

[1Marauder]

Sorry for the delay, i didnt know you guys posted.

Rockauto is where i got these, these are the ones i purchased.

FCS 1336349 (Economy) Info
Front

$69 BUCKS EACH

Just so I understand:

So you bought this $69 set... Took it apart and cut 1 coil off top, put it back together, and installed it and car sat 1inch above rubber, and rides great? And you have done two panthers this way?

[Turbov6Bryan]

Just so I understand:

So you bought this $69 set... Took it apart and cut 1 coil off top, put it back together, and installed it and car sat 1inch above rubber, and rides great? And you have done two panthers this way?

I bought them 69.00 each

Took apart and cut 1 full coil out, I cut the TOP COIL and put back together. edited, got top and bottom mixed up

The black car has 55 series up front

I have done this on just the one car, but typically 1 full coil on a mm oem spring too.
If your going to do it, buy new sway bar end links and possibly new upper control arms too.

[1Marauder]

I bought them 69.00 each

Took apart and cut 1 full coil out, I cut the bottom and put back together.

The black car has 55 series up front

I have done this on just the one car, but typically 1 full coil on a mm oem spring too.
If your going to do it, buy new sway bar end links and possibly new upper control arms too.

What rear size tire are you rolling?

[Turbov6Bryan]

Stock rear tires

[1Marauder]

I installed front Moog springs (same thickness and coils) and cars sits too high (drivers ball joint was shot and then found passenger side spring broke at bottom) , the car was only done today, even if it settles an inch in the next month that ain't gonna be where I was when I started, I can fit my fist (thumb up pinky down) between the tire and wheel well. And that's with rear tires all around. I thought Moog was the way to go, now what do I do, I don't even see Motorcraft springs available. Years ago I could call Moog and go over spring options, I lower my 84 MCSS 1.5" with Chevy S10 springs, I worked out perfect, Now I don't see a phone number to do that with a tech, someone else has the number I had.
I couldn't find Bilstein shocks for this car so I went with the KYBs but they seam a little jumpy like when put them on my 84 MCSS, I would get launched off a sharp hill, when I went to Bilsteins, I came out of the seat, the car stayed on the ground.
....that was a little long ... I need help

Please update... What did you do?

[Chi Stallion]

I have the Moog 80668 springs in my MM with Monroe’s and the front never sat that high. Bob had installed it back in 2012 when the car was at 120k. Car now is at 186k. If I could do it all over again I would never get Monroe’s ever again. Don’t really like the Moog Constant rate springs either. Only reason I had got them was because that’s the only Moog Springs rockauto has listed on their site for the MM.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180913/e4d425c2f62f98fbdd23f5adabe476 5c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180913/e5a30a06c7f73c112e54a077551be6 4e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180913/62a28140771cd90c7b83e569b2646a 8b.jpg