My Testing of Pauls HP Air Kit

[Dennis Reinhart]

OK weeks back there was the thread of where some got no gain on his Marauder with Pauls kit, so I had one sent here its a 100 degrees here in Jacksonville today, I used my N/A Marauder, and I did a base run of 249.4 RWHP and 261.3 RWT

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/paulsairkitbaserun.jpg

Next I installed Pauls kit. I made no timing or AF Corrections, with the install of the kit the car gained 6.8 RWHP and 8.5 RWT Now look at the AF Below.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/paulsairkit.jpg

What happened is with Pauls kit the AF went richer by about 8% this is caused by a slight change in the air meter transfer function, this is no big deal so I leaned the car out by 8% added NO timing and the car gained, 12.3 RWHP and 15.7 RWT

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/paulsairkitwithafcorection.jpg

So the kit does work and make a good power, as I said weeks ago when you have a N/A Marauder making 301 RWHP you will not see the gains I have here today but as that member stated the car had better throttle response and it accelerated better, so this is just my input.

[sailsmen]

Thank you Dennis.

I am curious as to the end result of the "Monster Marauder".

[duhtroll]

Dennis, thanks for the work on this. Did you say you were going to be selling these in the near future?

Thanks
-A

[Dennis Reinhart]

Thank you Dennis.

I am curious as to the end result of the "Monster Marauder".

Right now it made 585 RWHP it needs a bigger bypass I am doing that now and installing my new power pipe and a extrude honed lower intake, with that I should get the car to 600 RWHP that is 720 at the flywheel, they would not allow me to run the car at Fun Ford in Gainesville :down: after the car ran one pass of 11.5 at 118 MPH, so it set on dilsplay at the SCT Booth

[CRUZTAKER]

So the kit does work and make a good power, as I said weeks ago when you have a N/A Marauder making 301 RWHP you will not see the gains I have here today but as that member stated the car had better throttle response and it accelerated better, so this is just my input.
Well, your test appears to be professional and accurate.

The only question that remains is: Is this kit only going to show improvements to a bone stock Marauder? And if this is the case, why wouldn't it show similar improvements to ANY Marauder. I don't understand the rational to this....:confused:

Meanwhile, I will see Jerry next Saturday, and I will print this data for him to review. He made no adjustments to my A/F after the PHP install pulls. We left the program "as was".

[tmac1337]

Dennis, I assumed you leaned out the AF with the program to double the HP and TQ. For those of us with Pauls Box and your program should we do the same to see your results?

[Petrograde]

Can I lean the mix mechanically? Like a 750 Double-Pumper?

...or does it have to be done with the programming.

If it is programming, I wonder if my SCMT can do that?... hmmm,.. where'd I put the manual for that thing?....

[TAF]

The only question that remains is: Is this kit only going to show improvements to a bone stock Marauder? And if this is the case, why wouldn't it show similar improvements to ANY Marauder. I don't understand the rational to this....:confused:

Yep...that's the same question I have...why would more, "cool' air not make a difference no matter whether it's at 240 RWHP...or 640 RWHP???:confused:

Thanks Barry, "Inquiring minds want to know..."

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Yep...that's the same question I have...why would more, "cool' air not make a difference no matter whether it's at 240 RWHP...or 640 RWHP???:confused:

Thanks Barry, "Inquiring minds want to know..."What he said ??? :cool:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Barry I do not have a Marauder that is bone stock, and if I did this would not be my first Mod. I would do a stage 1 first. Yes I feel any one will see comparable numbers, both my self and Jerry told you that with your numbers you will Never see the gains I have, Your car is making as much power as any Marauder both of us has seen with out N2O or going into the engine.

The gains I have posted should be relatively the same for any normal N/A Marauder, that has not reached a peak RWHP like your car, any time you change a stock induction system the air meter transfer function can change, for example we have seen a C&L air meters lean Mark 8's out by more than 12% so in that case the car will show a big gain any time the car is lean its going to make more power, but its UNSAFE power, if that was the case here I would have seen more RWHP but I would have corected the AF back to the base run so I can show a fair comparison.

Now will every Marauder need the same AF changes as I have seen here maybe not. I have no way of knowing till I do more cars or other members here, have it tested as I have on the dyno, but with that said, the car gained power even before the AF correction. As far as me selling these, Paul is a Vendor here I am sure if someone PM's or calls him he would do a group buy.

[CRUZTAKER]

Thank you for the wonderfull explaination Dennis.

This next dyno session is dedicated to the LS, so next time around, we'll have to do another A/F tune on the MM and see if we have tweaked absolutely every ounce of power we can.

We were have having some serious issues with my tune on the last visit, it was late in the day, we were all tired, and the MM was having a mind of it's own. We basically gave up in frustration and confusion.

Next time, I'll be further forward in line, and try with fresh minds!

[Petrograde]

Well,.. I checked the SCMT manual and confirmed my suspisions. It doesn't do anything for the AF. :(

Does the SCMT 9100 do that? Crap, I just got my 1725 this past Xmas.

...sigh

[TAF]

Barry I do not have a Marauder that is bone stock, and if I did this would not be my first Mod. I would do a stage 1 first. Yes I feel any one will see comparable numbers, both my self and Jerry told you that with your numbers you will Never see the gains I have, Your car is making as much power as any Marauder both of us has seen with out N2O or going into the engine.

The gains I have posted should be relatively the same for any normal N/A Marauder, that has not reached a peak RWHP like your car, any time you change a stock induction system the air meter transfer function can change, for example we have seen a C&L air meters lean Mark 8's out by more than 12% so in that case the car will show a big gain any time the car is lean its going to make more power, but its UNSAFE power, if that was the case here I would have seen more RWHP but I would have corected the AF back to the base run so I can show a fair comparison.

Now will every Marauder need the same AF changes as I have seen here maybe not. I have no way of knowing till I do more cars or other members here, have it tested as I have on the dyno, but with that said, the car gained power even before the AF correction. As far as me selling these, Paul is a Vendor here I am sure if someone PM's or calls him he would do a group buy.I'm sorry Dennis...I guess I'm the only one still confused. :confused:

Why would the appreciable gains only be recognized on a bone-stock Marauder getting more/cooler air with this PHP kit? I recently witnessed a heavily modded Marauder on a dyno that with just a slight "misting" of NOS (not even a 50 shot) it picked up around 55 RWHP and 65 RWTQ on that particular run. It has been established that our engines LOVE colder air (most of the best track-runs have been under cold temps)...if the above have been established...why would it matter what level of mods are on a car to receive the gains from this intake mod? Please help me understand.

Thanks,

[Dennis Reinhart]

Barry on you car it might be better to try a 90 MM LM on your car, the Marauder Maf does strange things on the SC cars the maf can float on the AD count causing it to stall, this can make the AF look like a square wave I have never seen this on a NA car but very few make the power you are so I would ask Jerry about this, I have them in stock if you want to try one, I also only use these in my SC Kit, I posted a good article here on how Mafs work, do a search and pull it or I will try and post it later.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I'm sorry Dennis...I guess I'm the only one still confused. :confused:

Why would the appreciable gains only be recognized on a bone-stock Marauder getting more/cooler air with this PHP kit? I recently witnessed a heavily modded Marauder on a dyno that with just a slight "misting" of NOS (not even a 50 shot) it picked up around 55 RWHP and 65 RWTQ on that particular run. It has been established that our engines LOVE colder air (most of the best track-runs have been under cold temps)...if the above have been established...why would it matter what level of mods are on a car to receive the gains from this intake mod? Please help me understand.

Thanks,


Tod I never said you would only get appreciable gaines with a bone stock Marauder, I said if you read it since its up there in three places if you have a car with 300 RWHP you are NOT going to see the gaines, that some one else has with a midly modified Marauuder. There comes a point that no matter what you do to this car in a N/A setup you are not going to gain much more power unless you go in the engine, Barry has reached that point he is never going to gain 12 more HP over his curent 301, with this kit, and you cannot compare nitrous in the equation, when were talking about gaines with the Maf only,

I said I would never recomend an air filter kit as as first mod, I dont consider a stage 1 kit a heavy mod, colder air is dencer it will make more power, now I am sure this kit would make a power gain with no other mods, but you still have sloppy shifts a top speed limiter and 30 less RWHP with out a stage 1 kit, so I guess if this is all some one wants to do is add the kit go ahead.

[CRUZTAKER]

Barry on you car it might be better to try a 90 MM LM on your car....MMM...ok, so what is a 90mm LM? Are you suggesting a new MAF?
I am willing to try this, but I have limited resources as far as mechanics I can utilize for an install. If however, this is something I can do myself, should it be done onsite where Jerry is so that computer adjustments can be made immediately? Or will the car run ok for the meanwhile?

I am currently experiencing an odd thing lately(since the PHP install. When the car is warm, and at a dead stop. If I tap the gas and immediately let off, it stalls. Really embarrassing....

[schuvwj]

MMM...ok, so what is a 90mm LM? Are you suggesting a new MAF?
I am willing to try this, but I have limited resources as far as mechanics I can utilize for an install. If however, this is something I can do myself, should it be done onsite where Jerry is so that computer adjustments can be made immediately? Or will the car run ok for the meanwhile?

I am currently experiencing an odd thing lately(since the PHP install. When the car is warm, and at a dead stop. If I tap the gas and immediately let off, it stalls. Really embarrassing....

Barry I also have the same problems on my MM after the PHP install when its warm. I cleaned the MAS with electronic spray cleaner and had no change. I have also noticed the engine idles slower with PHP's install than it did with the stock air filter box when warm.

Maybe we need to install the spacer and get them re-tuned?

[Petrograde]

I haven't stalled but sometimes when the light turns green, my MM bogs really bad, then ,... like it's catching up,.. then it kicks in hard. :confused:

[CRUZTAKER]

Barry I also have the same problems on my MM after the PHP install when its warm. I cleaned the MAS with electronic spray cleaner and had no change. I have also noticed the engine idles slower with PHP's install than it did with the stock air filter box when warm.

Maybe we need to install the spacer and get them re-tuned?
You hit the nail on the head....that's what mine does. Not consistantly, but occationally. Sometimes she runs like a bat out of hell, others...she stalls....

I ordered the spacer, but damnit if PHP isn't on a one month hiatus....I mean who closes the ENTIRE shop w/o ANY representation for a month at a time?:shake:

[sailsmen]

Probably because it is running 8% richer.

[Dennis Reinhart]

The 90 MM LM is just that, its a 90 Millimeter Lighting Maf, that is used on the Lighting trucks they also make in 80 MM its a very good Meter, we use it in almost all of our SC kits for any ford product up to 500 HP, I have been driving my car all weekend and have not had any stalling issues, Barry's car was tuned by Jerry with the PHP kit I doubt if its 8% rich, I am sure Jerry can help with the issues described I will do further testing of my car and see what happens, Barry send Jerry an email and see what he has to say, I hope every one has a good weekend.

[CRUZTAKER]

Thanks Dennis, and I would like to add that I really appreciate your taking time to check in here and assist some of us 'no talents'. Your input is truely exclusive.

[tmac1337]

I've been experiencing similar problems since my install. After I first start it if it's been sitting for a while the car idles much lower and wants to stall but doesn't if I rev the engine a couple of times. Definately differn't than the stock box. Also bogs down slightly first from a stop.

Dennis please respond to this directly. It obviously has something to do with the airflow change from stock. What would make it idle lower at startup and want to stall?

I'm glad someone else posted this problem as I now realize it is a problem that is occuring on the other kits as well.

I know that I'll probably be replacing it when a superior product comes out soon or I'll be changing it back to my stock box.

[CRUZTAKER]

Dennis please respond to this directly. It obviously has something to do with the airflow change from stock. What would make it idle lower at startup and want to stall?

Good point....but in my case, I am sure Jerry can fix this. Dennis can too, as well as Lidio....it's just a case of getting ones car to the 'tuner man' Any issue can be fixed with the laptop with the right person at the keys!

Too bad the LS is scheduled for the 19th.....but I promised mommy!

[tmac1337]

Cruztaker, It's great that you have someone nearby who can put your car up, see how lean its running, and do a fix. Most of us however do not have that option. We cannot even have an updated file emailed because the car has not been tested to know what to accurately adjust.

Lets talk some facts:

1. The product is shoddy quality with misaligning casing screws, too large bolts that back up onto the filter making it hard to clamp it down, and with a paper thin gasket (whatever that thing is).

2. The gains are nowhere near as advertised.

3. No mounting instructions came with mine.

4. Stalling/low idle problems.

I have spent a lot of money on upgrades to my car so far. This is the only mod that I have purchased that is highly suspect in my opinion. Some people may differ. I'm sure these kits are not flying off the shelf anymore by MM.net members if they have been reading the posts.

[CRUZTAKER]

Lets talk some facts.....
I am gonna have to agree with all of the above. However, I do notice a change in my ET speeds at the track.

[Marauder57]

Dennis good info on the test....overall a good informative thread...exactly why I am here.... :up: