Plan for an audio system

[the fat bastid]

When I was younger I had an $800 honda with a $1000 sound system in it. But for the Marauder I never wanted to mutilate it so I had a mild upgrade of infinity speakers in all 4 corners (forget if they are kappas or whatever) and a jl 6W3v3-4 in the stock sub box (perfect sealed size volume for it!).
I've had it that way for more years than I can remember now but the bug has bitten once more thanks to all the advances in tech and years learning more about electronics and whatnot.
So here is my plan for my second audio system upgrade, let me know what you guys think and if there is a problem in my logic.

50719

Headunit:
Made from a 7" touch screen, oem connectors and radio chassis, power control hardware, and a raspberry pi 4 running open auto pro. Will use the hdmi output to run a digital signal to the trunk of the car, avoiding electrical interference.

Extractor:
In the trunk, this will take the HDMI audio and convert it to 5.1 RCAs. This part is a home audio part, will need a buck converter for the 5v needed as well as a trigger switch.

DSP:
The RCAs will be super short connecting the extractor to minidsp's c-dsp-8x12 (https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-8x12). This active crossover's output is then 12 channels to the amps. One reason I picked this dsp (and the amp chips) was because of their use of new chips. a lot of class-d amps and dsp use really old tech. The chips can be 15+ years old but if it sells they still make it and never update it.

Amps:
The amps should be close to the DSP as well, again keeping the RCAs short. One thing I've learned over time is that commercial amplifiers can be a rip off. A $3,000 amp hailed as sounding great can have $15 digital chip at its heart.
I was really impressed with texas instruments TPA3251 (https://www.ti.com/product/TPA3251) chip when it came out. It is a class-D that is 90% efficient and not many external components needed, keeping the size small. I made their design for a 700 watt amp (https://www.ti.com/tool/PMP11769)
but it lacked a remote turn on lead and a few other problems. I couldn't quite figure out how to alter the pcb well enough. I didn't want to fool around with all that again so I found http://www.3e-audio.com/ who make a 4 channel 100x4 tpa3251 based amp. Problem is this is for home use so it needs a
boost converter and a trigger switch for each one. 3 of these handles the 12 channels. Side note, you know how everyone raves about the ICEpower stuff? those are tpa32XX based as well.

Speakers:
what to do with 12 channels? I'm thinking 3 way component speakers up front. 1" tweeter in the sail panel, convert the stock speaker location to a 3.5", and use a custom door pod to add a 6.5" https://www.customspeakerpods.com/1998-2012-crown-victoria.
It will take a lot of work to get everything to look nice. Some people don't use any rear fill but I'd like to build this for rear seat passengers as well so 2 way components in the rear. Not sure where the tweeter will go yet but will convert the stock location to 6.5".
I'll keep the jl 6W3v3-4 in the stock sub box, it will use 2 of the channels summed (and bridged from the amp) and feed it 150w, all other speakers get 100w.

So it should , in theory, sound great and be way cheaper....in theory...

[Invective]

When I was younger I had an $800 honda with a $1000 sound system in it..

Interesting writeup. My first excursion into HiFi was a Craig 8 track/FM unit mounted in the glove compartment of my 1966 Ford Fairlane with Jensen 6x9 dual cone speakers on the rear package tray. I was in heaven. FM was next to useless due to lack of FM rock stations at the time - they were still on the AM band. Grand Funk Railroad never sounded better! Some time and a few cars later, I moved up to a nearly new 1979 Sedan Deville with the factory AM-FM 8 track (first year of the digital display), along with the optional, dealer installed Cadillac/Delco Symphonic Sound Package. This option included speaker upgrade and an under dash booster-equalizer. AC-DC never sounded better.

Next experience at HiFi wasn't until 1999 when I bought a nearly new 1998 Mustang GT with the Mach 460 Sound System. Nirvana never sounded better. My first car to have a factory installed CD player - loved this car until I wrapped it around a power pole one early saturday morning in 2011 (fell asleep at 0330). One month later I buy my current Mustang from the original owner, a like new 2005 GT with the Shaker 500 system. Only 6k miles and the price was right. Disappointed that it didn't have a cassette player - found out that 2004 was the last model year a cassette player was available in a Mustang. I'm stepping up in the world audio wise. Stone Temple Pilots never sounded better.

Fast forward to 2019. I trade my 2006 Ranger Supercab 4X4 for a brand new 2019 Ranger Lariat 4X4 Super Crewcab. The Lariat comes with the Bang & Olufsen 10 Speaker Sound System (B&O Play). 675 watts of total amplifier power. Johnette Napolitano/Concrete Blonde never sounded better.

https://i.imgur.com/sUzfR2Ol.png


Regarding Marauder, I'm content with the stock Alpine manufactured Symphonic Sound System with single CD player, CD changer and a cassette player (top of the line Panther sound system at the time). Lately, I'm listening to a lot of Channel 35 XMU on Sirius XM from my phone through Marauder's radio using a ROAV bluetooth adapter. I've never been a true audiophile of sorts - not hard to please.

https://i.imgur.com/gAeuuPLl.jpg

[Peace2Peep]

I love your plan!

I have had many a sound system with extensive mods in several of my vehicles (I'll edit this post with more details later today). I would say that the active crossover/eq setup is the way to go for today's automobiles. It is astounding the audio perfection that can be achieved with time alignment and proper equalization with such a setup. People that would hear these modern tuned vehicles are usually blown away at how fewer watts/speakers can turn into audio that destroys ALL (and I mean ALL) factory setups. In 30 years of sound system playing and hobby, I have never heard a factory sound system outperform a properly tuned aftermarket system.

You've got a good setup...Although I would learn heavier toward the bass side of the equation. If your system were my system, I would at least put two ten inch subwoofers in the package tray where the spare tire sits. Two tens with about 250-500 watts apiece would be amazing. My former Marauder (God rest her poor totaled soul) had Focal 5-1/4" components up front and Focal 5x7 coaxials in the rear with two JL audio 10w7 subs in the trunk. I ran a JL Audio 450/4 for the front (150 watts x 2) and rear (75 watts x 2) and a 1000/1 for the two subwoofers (500 watts each). It was amazing!

You may need an upgraded alternator, since our vehicles are a bit anemic when it comes to adequate amperage from the power plant.

I'm sure Kenny (BAD MERC) will chime in here, he built an amazing system in his silver beast that put all (in my opinion) to shame. Of course, we are sound quality fans...the boom system crowd has another manner of producing what their ears like to hear. Enjoy the ride!

[Mr. Man]

:confused: With your proposed set up how do you plan on dealing with the inverse Marx-Klaxon wave feedback oscillation? You will need to incorporate some sort of a philharmonic sine cornish eliminator. :)

[musclemerc]

Well planned TFB.

[decipha]

I think youd be much better off with a nice 6.5" component set in the doors and dedicated 8" mids mounted up front. Tweets in the sails is a horrible idea IME Ive never once heard it sound right at all and pulls the imaging too far from center. I never understood why some some vehicles come like that stock.

two sealed 10s on the back deck and leave the kappas or what you have for the rear fill.

I have some JBL 6.5 components up front and just though alone with a boom mat was a significant improvement over the stock setup with the puny 6.5" sub.

[sailsmen]

How do you plan on dealing with Sideway, Radiated, Engine and Alternator Noises?

[the fat bastid]

How do you plan on dealing with Sideway, Radiated, Engine and Alternator Noises?

Alternator noise is either picked up in the RCAs out of the head unit or a bad ground. I'll run the HDMI cable on the opposite side of the car from the power cable, (like done normally with RCAs) and since it is a digital signal any induced voltage shouldn't cause any 0s to turn into 1s in the mind of the extractor. Induced voltage should be in the mV, not enough to trigger a high bit.
As for a ground, hum, we will see. Our cars don't have great grounds. That is why so many of them get the flickering gauges thing going on. I'll scrap the paint and try for the best on the stock locations first and start drilling if that doesn't work.

[daddyusmaximus]

I like those door pods. I wish I had seen them when I was doing my system. I did all JL Audio C-3 components (doors/deck) but would loved to have gone with a 3 way in front, and I really like a strong front stage. In fact, I'd rather have a better front, and no rear at all, than a middle of the pack all round. The one thing I wish for was better imaging from the tweeters. Not a fan of the mid door placement. I'd like a dash placement, way up front by the glass. I did consider the sail panels, but decided against it. I do think you may need a bit more bottom end though. I went with the JL Audio 12W3v3-2 in a down firing sealed box. It's small enough to be placed right under the package tray where the original sub used to hang. I welded bolts to the floor, then bolted it down, so do drilling into the fuel tank, and I still have the entire trunk. It hits hard enough to sound real good, but it's not mushy and boomy like a ported box. It's tight, and accurate.

Take factory sub out...

https://i.imgur.com/sZT11Bv.jpg

Weld bolts to floor. No drilling into fuel tank.

https://i.imgur.com/pRDL1rq.jpg

Sealed, down firing enclosure.

https://i.imgur.com/xPONu90.jpg

New sub, and brackets.

https://i.imgur.com/Hfa2lXN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ekW9HUZ.jpg

Bolt it down. It's not going anywhere...

https://i.imgur.com/NhKxTKk.jpg

Good strong bottom end, and I still have entire trunk, that I use... a lot... (she's a daily)

https://i.imgur.com/SRDgYF9.jpg

I can't remember what vehicle that box was made for. I got it from a stereo shop that was going out of business, (they couldn't even remember) but you can always custom make an enclosure. Thing is, you can fit a 12" sub in the same space as the factory sub... just not with a big ass stupid ported box.

[burt ragio]

Looks like you did your homework . Don't forget the sound deadener.

[the fat bastid]

So here is the initial fitment of one of the amps and its parts.

The TPA3251 4x100 amp on the black pcb. The boost converter is the red pcb. The trigger switch is the small blue one.
The amp inputs are connected to the rca jacks. The boost converter output is connected to the amp. Nothing else is hooked up yet.
The yellow wires are not hooked up to anything, they are the negatives for balanced differential inputs. I used the ultimate box maker off of thingyverse as a base for the case. I had to modify the .scad file to add more mount points as the file is really just for a single pcb.
Each case half takes about 10 hours to print and this is like the 4th version I've had to test haha
Case size is ~224 mm X 125 mm X 50 mm
https://imgur.com/7PgrCoS.jpg

These white plates are monoprice home audio electrical outlets. Kind of a strange choice for car audio speaker termination but I wasn't really happy with other choices such as barrier strips and phoenix plugs. These allow for banana plugs or bare wire connection
https://imgur.com/f07VSde.jpg

On the input side I used nvx xqdc4 power plug for the positive, negative, and remote turn on lead. I was just looking for mountable screw downs but for some reason the only replacements i could find where those 45 degree ones that pivot the wire up, that is the style these days on car amps. I hate those. This is probably the
janky-est part as it is just hot glued into the case. The hole you see is for fuse holder that should be coming soon. They are stuck in quarantine. Not a joke.
https://imgur.com/gbB9Ooz.jpg

Stuff not needed:
High level inputs. Since I know I'll be using low levels there is no need to include them.
Frequency cutoffs. All that will be handled by the active dsp.
Gain control. Set at 20db by design.

[the fat bastid]

I've designed and 3d printed some tweeter cups for the sail panels.
The ID is 48mm, OD 54mm. 19mm depth before the 'turn'
I need to aim them, glue them down, then use a grill cloth, resin, and body filler to smooth it all together.
50801

[Peace2Peep]

I've designed and 3d printed some tweeter cups for the sail panels.
The ID is 48mm, OD 54mm. 19mm depth before the 'turn'
I need to aim them, glue them down, then use a grill cloth, resin, and body filler to smooth it all together.
50801


What!?? You ALSO 3D print? Wow! Man! I am watching this build! I am also considering a 3-way component set. I'm considering a version of what you're considering. any more updates? Pics?

[the fat bastid]

Progress has been slow because of the coronavirus screwing up shipping and work.
I've finished 2 of the 3 amps. 3rd almost done. (need to print one more top)
Also, I resined the tweeter cups on to the sail panels. One thing I found out is that the left and right sail panels are different sizes!
The passenger one is larger than the driver's side. This is my first time with resin and it came out decent enough. The passenger one looks great but the driver's side has a few waves in it. Hopefully fixable with the next three steps, fiberglass+resin then body filler then sanding. I've never worked with body filler so this will be something! At least they are small!


50802

[Peace2Peep]

If you make a set for me I will pay!!!!!

[marauderfan9]

I second that, if you make tweeter pods out of the sail panels I’d buy some!

[Peace2Peep]

Which component speakers are you considering?

[the fat bastid]

Thanks for the enthusiasm! This is the first time I'm trying this so I'm not a pro. I want to finish this set and make sure everything is good before I even think about trying to make more.
When I was a poor high school guy I had the budget system and always dreamed about going top of the line. Now is the time I finally get to live the dream. I'm going with JL audio's C7 component speakers. the c7-100ct is the tweeter, c7-350cm is the mid range, c7-650cw for the woofer.

[Peace2Peep]

Wow! Those are some serious high-dollar beauties! Whoohooo! I cannot wait to see this! I've then gotta figure out a way to hear it! (If you're ever willing) This sounds just too cool! Keep on keeping on brother!

[the fat bastid]

Small update this time:
Originally the idea was to use a hdmi break out to get 5.1 audio if needed when watching a movie or whatever. I wondered why there was no support for that in the car world. After talking to some veteran installers, the reason is because 5.1 sucks in a car for everyone listening and don't try to use home stuff in a car. Mixing it to stereo is a better option for everyone involved. Well, ok. (I considered a usb dac as well but the pi's usb ports are rather noisy). So now I'm getting a allo digione (https://allo.com/sparky/digione.html) transport board, which means it adds digital outs. I'll run the spidif rca to the c-dsp. Toslink's are too bandwidth limited which is why they don't even have that connector on the board. The allo seems to be a little better than hifiberry's offerings but you pay for it. The digione signature is too expensive, too large, and requires 2 external power sources. Just too much for this project.

Next, I bought some sosche SA68 6x8 speaker adapters. They claim to be able to convert out 6x8s to 5.25" and 6.5". That is a joke. There is no way in hell a 6.5" can fit. Even if you shave off material to make it work the sides would be so thin as to just break in half. I scanned the adapter and used tech specs from JL to make a new adapter in adobe illustraor then used svg2stl to make it a .stl. Then I took it to tinkercad for some quick finishing and tweaking. Below are pics of the side by side. The left is the SA68, right is my adapter prototype. The screw holes are messed up here and still need to be punched out. The next version will look like the adapter's counter sunk holes.

https://i.imgur.com/UE2Rvrj.jpg

Next is some fitment shots of the pods. The left has the sail panel removed but the right side doesn't. Haven't done anything else with them yet. Body filler taking years to get here...

https://i.imgur.com/EGK9Ljk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GDcBtbg.jpg

[boom boom]

I'm really digging the tweeter pods, cant wait to see them finished.

[Peace2Peep]

This is looking really good! I actually just got the custom speaker pods in the mail today. I am watching your tweeter pods with great earnest! I think I'm going with the Audiofrog 3-way speaker set.

https://www.audiofrog.com/category/car-audio/

I can't wait to hear your impressions of the JL's...I've never heard those!

[musclemerc]

JL audio has been making high end audio for decades.

[the fat bastid]

Audiofrog was definitely in the running for me. They should sound great.

[the fat bastid]

Still working on this. I'm just lazy. Started to piece together the head unit itself finally.
https://i.imgur.com/zqT4BAU.jpg
From top to bottom of the stack is:
Raspberry Pi Automatic ON/OFF V2.1 (https://www.tindie.com/products/picotouch/raspberry-pi-automatic-onoff-v21-new-version/)
the allo digione (https://allo.com/sparky/digione.html)
raspberry pi 4. (https://www.microcenter.com/product/609038/raspberry-pi-4-model-b---4gb-ddr4)

The thing sticking out the side is a nvme ssd hard drive in a usb adapter. The foundation finally released a beta update for the pi to allow it to boot from usb. Since it has usb 3 connections the load times are much much better than from the sd card. I'm still working on it as betas can be a little fiddly.
You can see the connector on its own pcb there as well.

[the fat bastid]

Finished the amp rack. It is 15"x20" so it will slide into the shelf next to the spare tire. Had to double stack it to make all the components fit.
I'm pretty happy with it. It isn't pro levels as you can see many small errors with it like things not centered right, wires too long or too short, cuts not square etc but this is my first build since high school and it is leagues better than screwing everything into the back of the seat in my 1983 honda (and then having everything just pull out and flopping around...)
https://i.imgur.com/IOgOUiB.jpg

[Peace2Peep]

Wow! That's some good work man!

I see you have your CLD on the floor there...did you already do your panel dampening? Any pics?

What's next for this project? Mine has been in paint/body for three months...it's killing me!

[the fat bastid]

I pulled everything out of trunk, did like 3 squares then noticed some rust on some seems so off to the body shop it goes for now, which is why I started with the amp rack. The next step once it gets back is to take out the interior and deaden everything. I'll take pictures of that.
Then install speakers with adapters, run speaker wires, finish the tweeter pods, install the door pods (blend and make them not look like crap), then finish and install the headunit and its wires. I think that is it. ya know, not too much :P

[Mr. Man]

Looks good. What do you listen to that requires all this sophistication? Your home set up must be amazing.

[Peace2Peep]

Ok, it's time for an update...looks like I won't get to stereo upgrades until next year, too much mechanical/electrical stuff needed right now. Whatcha up to with your project now? Back from paint/body?

[8UWITH6]

Looks like quite the setup you have going on there. I have always enjoyed a high powered component set in the doors with very little rear fill in my vehicles. But, that is obviously my preference. I don't think you will be happy with the JL in the factory enclosure. I did the same thing early on and was not very pleased with it. The nice thing is that you can always try it first and if you don't like it you can build an enclosure later on. Good luck with your project it is quite interesting to me!

[the fat bastid]

Yeah, back from the body shop. Did the rust on the roof and trunk, did the S55 thing (which was done on aftermarket already smoked lens haha), installed a spoiler.
https://i.imgur.com/0VHBJqc.jpg
Then I installed sylanvia zevo 5000k white leds in the tail lights as well. Here is a comparison, LED on the left, normal bulb on the right. I might cut out the plugged up holes on the bottom level and install lights in there too...
https://i.imgur.com/8BnIwui.jpg

[Peace2Peep]

Yay!!!! It's back! Now I get my car audio fix while you install this incredible setup! I probably won't be able to do my planned install until Spring...so I'm living vicariously my friend.

Paint's looking good! I love the S55 tailight look, and the spoiler is one of the finest spoilers Ford ever installed...imo. Now! Let's do some stereo gear!!! ("Let's" really means you, while we spectate and cheer!)

[Peace2Peep]

Any updates?

[the fat bastid]

Two things are that I managed to get a slide out half tray for the trunk so the whole amp setup can sit on that buuuuuut it is badly bent and needs some work. The metal is so thick that i need to take it to a machine shop or something.
Also, custom gauge pods released this: https://www.customspeakerpods.com/product-page/a-pillar-2-tweeter-pods-03-12-crown-vic-grand-marquis-mercury-mariner
Wondering if I want my sail pod locations or these a-pillar locations.
They also released some 8" stuff for the rear door. pondering which way to go for the rear now...

[BAD MERC]

https://i.imgur.com/uxre6le.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7ts6ArW.jpg

[the fat bastid]

Looks great, Bad Merc!
Recently, I made a small shelf from ABS to hold the circuit breakers for the audio system and the alternator. What is funny is that this is my 2nd breaker for the alternator, the first one was too close to the engine block and since a circuit breaker is a bi-metal strip in the inside, the engine block heat would cause it to trip early as well as permanently screwing it up, dropping it from a 250 amp breaker to 70 amp. Oops.
I put in 2 right angles to clear the hood. All holes are threaded nut rivet inserts which allows it to be secured by the coolant reservoir bolts. If I had the tools I'd round the corners to sexy it up a bit.
https://i.imgur.com/v13TwKs.jpg