Rienhart Feedback

[Dan]

As many of you know I am shopping for a charger. My mind is nearly made up on a particular manufacturers charger but I don't want to make a purchase without getting feedback from owners of the DR charger first.

So, will the owners of the DR charger please post their comments here. I want to know about the characteristics of it, how it pulls, how long you have had it for, dyno and track results, etc.

Yes, I am sure that a lot of this has been posted around but my thought is that with the time that has gone by I can get a different set of opinions that are based on living with the car verses the "just got it charged" types of thoughts.

If you feel the need to make a "comparison" please don't do it here. Please PM me.

Thank you very much.

Best,

Dan

[Marauderman]

Well, I surely must post a reply here--I have DR's # 7 Vortec V-2 ,S-Trim Model ...and I just love it--- I was like you and had the fortunate opportunbity to drive several different types in the same day--namely Sarge's KB # 1 and Bob Mathis's Trilogy and then Dr's new '04 he had just installed --all this back in Nov.'03 in Alt.Ga.

OK--I chose the DR set up for me because I wanted a little more time (A few seconds actually --but still more seconds) for me to catch up to the cars ability to go wild!..I felt the Roots set-up , with an aggressive low in torque so immediate at the touch of the gas was to quick for me--I'd rather feel the car graduating up the scale --of course age may have a factor in this too as well--I see your younger--so you may want that --which brings us back to the beginning--

It is best for you if you can drive one of each--but the real diff over all in my opinion is that the roots vs the Votec is this --the roots is immediate and the Vortec is a few seconds behind initial thrust... and again it all depends on alot of other factors as well--like your style of driving--frequency of use for the car--daily vs weekend or special events --- and others of course.....
but the Vortec takes a few seconds longer to get into the power band vs the roots---which I prefer personnally---

Ok..And...I've had mine since Dec.'03 and have put 5,200 miles on the S/C'er since install.....hardly a time out that she doesn't hit 100 even by mistake.. hopefully this has helped out- Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have further--

Dr's set up is GREAT and I'm a happy customer as are many others of his.....Tom

[BigMerc]

I have the DR #8, and It's (in my opinion) the only way to go, For me the whole was a two part deal, I like the Vortech and keeping it around 450 Hp is still safe for the engine, Dennis is the other part, he runs himself ragged trying to keep all his customers happy. He has put a lot of time into the kit, and stands behind what he does, He'll swap out, replace or go with something entirely different, if need be, the system is a winner, reliable, powerful and pretty!
Dennis works the phone daily and he's never more than a phone call away.

I'm having a 625-640 HP engine built by Jim O'neill and Dennis is doing the install, frankly because I trust him, so don't forget, its not all product its what happens after you get the product.

[Dan]

How would driving frequency affect this decision?

Dan

[Marauderman]

I have the DR #8, and It's (in my opinion) the only way to go, For me the whole was a two part deal, I like the Vortech and keeping it around 450 Hp is still safe for the engine, Dennis is the other part, he runs himself ragged trying to keep all his customers happy. He has put a lot of time into the kit, and stands behind what he does, He'll swap out, replace or go with something entirely different, if need be, the system is a winner, reliable, powerful and pretty!
Dennis works the phone daily and he's never more than a phone call away.

I'm having a 625-640 HP engine built by Jim O'neill and Dennis is doing the install, frankly because I trust him, so don't forget, its not all product its what happens after you get the product.
.and to add to my previous. what he says^^^^^^^^^^^ditto^^^^^^^

[Marauderman]

How would driving frequency affect this decision?

Dan
here again --a personal preference thing-- the best way again to get a good answer is to maybe PM those who use theirs as a daly driver--I do not however--- but say ---like BillyGman..for example--I think he is a daily driver...although he has a roots...but other than gas consumption..not much I suppose---the major diff being extending the life of the car if not used frequently...there may be other reason..but maybe I'm stiring you in the wrong direction--so best to forget the frequency thing alltogether....it's fun no matter what or when you drive it--..the type is your question--so with that - I recommend to try and drive each kind if possible--cause reading each owners version of theirs is like trying to hear the sound of our exhaust tips from reading our explanations of them..it ain't gonna happen! so drive other S'C ones--even if not MM's to get that feel difference...then you can make a decision you will feel comfortable with I think...my .02..Tom

[Dan]

Yeah, I am trying to keep this focused to the DR setup because I want to avoid the whole "issue" that gets people so spooled up. :)

Even though driving it is so important it still is valuable to hear the personal feedback and that is what I want. So, while I will agree with you about the need to drive it I should clarify that I WANT the DR owners to chime in and give me their feedback. And I am sure that I chose the correct forum for it, too. :)

Is there a DH car that is within driving distance of the CT area? I have driven Billy's car so, in all fairness, I should try and drive a DH car.

I will say this, either way, I am going to use the thing. It is how I drive. No two ways about it. For the the MM is a pleasure car. Putting on a charger just takes the pleasure from one level to the nex. For me, at least, I know it will.

I also drive the car daily.

Best,

Dan

[MarauderMark]

Hey Dan !!
I have DR #18.and so far so good i have been using the car as a daily driver as i had this installed @20k and now have 25k.i allways look foward to getting in my car like a kid w/a new toy :rock: gas mileage? :lol: :lol: i spend alot more now..you can look at my garage for what you'll get w/ the vortech and my timeslip for times.oh timeslip is w/o drags as i need to save $$$$.Dennis is the man! he will take care of you as he's done for so many of us..Good luck with your decision.either way your going to love your car more :rock: :rock:

[MikesMerc]

Is the thread about Dennis, or the supercharger of choice? There is a difference as Dennis is also an authorized Trilogy installer and can install both kits.

I do beleive this is an important point. You'll have the "same man" standing behind either kit.

[Marauderman]

Is the thread about Dennis, or the supercharger of choice? There is a difference as Dennis is also an authorized Trilogy installer and can install both kits.

I do beleive this is an important point. You'll have the "same man" standing behind either kit.
I had heard he was going to do both but I haven't heard much on any of his roots installs...anyone else..or did he opt out of doing that?.Tom

[Marauderman]

Hey Dan !!
I have DR #18.and so far so good i have been using the car as a daily driver as i had this installed @20k and now have 25k.i allways look foward to getting in my car like a kid w/a new toy :rock: gas mileage? :lol: :lol: i spend alot more now..you can look at my garage for what you'll get w/ the vortech and my timeslip for times.oh timeslip is w/o drags as i need to save $$$$.Dennis is the man! he will take care of you as he's done for so many of us..Good luck with your decision.either way your going to love your car more :rock: :rock:
Oh yeah!!......What he says^^^^^^^^^ for sure ^^^^^ always looking forward to hear #7 roar to life ........it's a moving drug addition.......Tom

[pacammer]

I went through the same process you are going through. Both the Trilogy and the Reinhardt blower kits are fine units. The difference is how they present their power. A Roots Eaton (Trilogy) gives immediate bundles of torque, lots a go at the start. A centrifugal blower (Reinhardt) must wind up before it produces torgue. In the long run when running equally prepared cars at the same boost, the centrifugally supercharged car will out run a Roots Eaton car because it will pass more air. I am only comparing the Trilogy to the Reinhardt and how they are set up. I drive my car everyday in N.E. PA.. I need to drive in snow and ice. The trilogy is not ideally suited for my conditions. If I lived in a different climate, or put up my car for winter, I may have made a different choice. Both are excellent choices. Do you want torque immediately or upon demand of the right pedal?

[Dan]

OK, I want to take a moment to clarify. This thread is about feedback from owners of the DR kit. It is not about Mr. DR himself, or Trilogy or the supercharger of choice.

I am not trying to sound like a moderator here but, knowing the history of this topic on this board, I think we can all agree to the wisdom of staying on topic.

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

To answer some other questions...

I don't and won't drive it in the snow. It is not my only vehicle. I have a 4X4 for the sticky stuff. I think that I am looking for a car that will give me the most power in the ranges of speed that I commonly drive. Those speeds are from 0-60 (around town) and 65-110 (highway).

Top end is not all that important to me. I am sure that I could build a car that does well over 150 but I will admit that I don't have the skill set to handle that speed and I am not sure that I have the desire to drive that quickly either.

I am still open to other comments about experiences with the CR kit and I wish to thank all who have PM'd me with their comments on the matter. :)

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

A question... how high does the DR kit need to wind up before it begins to really bring on the boost?

Will someone please post a dyno link?

Thanks,

Dan

[BigMerc]

Quote:"OK, I want to take a moment to clarify. This thread is about feedback from owners of the DR kit. It is not about Mr. DR himself, or Trilogy or the supercharger of choice."


Well you did ask about the DR kit, so DR must come into the conversation, because its his kit!! And because of that, the "kit" does include DR himself, you get him as part of the kit. He and what he does is as much as the kit as the supercharger itself.

[Dan]

The question was asked as to what the thread was about and, since I started the thread, I felt that I should answer it. Just refer back to post one where I asked
So, will the owners of the DR charger please post their comments here? I want to know about the characteristics of it, how it pulls, how long you have had it for, dyno and track results, etc.


If I buy a Kooks set up I am confident that Kooks comes with the set up. If I buy a Trilogy I am sure that I get Jerry Barnes. It is all pretty much relative.

That being the case, I think that I can safely say that the thread is about the experiences/etc of owners of the DR kit. :) :lol:

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

On another note... I have gotten a PM or two from folks who were willing to tell me why they went with the DR kit vs any other kit. Just as an FYI - those PMs are very, very welcome.

Best,

Dan

[crom]

I am also getting ready to make the plunge and get a s/c. I feel either way you can't go wrong. I too am interested in hearing owners of the dr kits input on it. I too use my car as a daily driver, do not plan on going to the track but once in awhile. Basically I want to be able to flip a quarter in the back seat, scare the @#$% out of my wife and have some fun. I have read just about every thread on just about everything here. I don't talk much, but have absorbed a vast amount of knowledge about the mm and cars /performance products in general. I understand the differences between a roots/centrifugal/twin screw/turbo setup. To me, it's all good. I've already made my list(LONG) of upgrades I plan on doing, but the more 411 the better. I have not had the opportunity to drive the different options available, wish I could. If anyone has any input, please feel free to pm me. It would be greatly appreciated.

[Dan]

More questions for the DR kit owners.

What is your power delivery like? I am interested in seat of the pants feel off the line as well as roll on acceleration. I hear a lot of comments about how other chargers bring it on linearly from the bottom on up. I am not sure that is what I want. Please feel free to tell me what your impressions are of the Vortech.

When power comes on, at what RPM range do you really begin to notice it?

What "delay", if any, is there to your power delivery?

How much does the power come on once it begins to come on? What I mean is, how different from "linear" is it? Non linear can cause problems for the driver when powering out of corners in that it give the driver one more thing to try and plan for.

Has anyone done any top end stuff with the Vortech SC? Could someone time a 70-100 sprint for me?

Is anyone willing to let me go for a ride with them in their DR set up car? I am in CT.

I know, I know, a lot of questions. Feel free to answer one or all. But please, let's keep this about vortech and DR and not about other chargers/companies.

This is a very hard decision for me to make. I can use all of the help that I can get.

Thanks,

Dan

[MikesMerc]

Since you mentioned "vortech owners" (which I am) I'll chime in.

The power delivery of the vortech is like this: No real gains on the low end, power comes on in the mid range, and power rushes on hard in the top end.

Check out these dyno sheets. Max power tells only a tiny bit of the story. Focus on the boost provided at various engine rpms as well as the torque and HP curves themselves. They tell the story.

Vortech Car:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/487000-487999/487512_68_full.jpg

Trilogy Car:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/504000-504999/504356_23_full.jpg

This sheets should give you a clear picture of how the car will feel and where in the rpm ranges the power can be found. Just look at the torque provided under 4000 rpm between the two. It's night and day.

I know you did not want comparisons, but it is impossible to judge performance of a mod in a vacuum.

[Dan]

Mike,

Thanks for the input.

Anyone else with info on the DR kit which touches on some of the things that I asked about is welcome to chime in. :)

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

Mike,

You said, "This sheets should give you a clear picture of how the car will feel and where in the rpm ranges the power can be found. Just look at the torque provided under 4000 rpm between the two. It's night and day."

I would like to know more about the statemen but am afraid to open pandoras box.

Please PM me with what you mean by it being "night and day". I admit to not being to familiar with reading Dyno slips.

Thanks,

Dan

[Dennis Reinhart]

I beg to differ and again I thought this post was info on Vortech, but since you have made your opinion here is mine, this car has a 3.78 pulley making 9 PSI and 458 RWHP.

now compare the sheets. your runninng almost 11 PSI and just making 400 RWHP Your Air fuel is far leaner than mine, it never gets to the 11,s way past 4000 RPM you may feel ok with that I don't.

Yes the torque does really not start climbing till about three grand, but I have had other cars show this a lot sooner this car is just a little diferent none really show the exact same sheet, but with 4:10's the car pulls hard all the way to 6000 RPM. But I am making more RWHP at a lot less boost, and look at my AF its almost a flat 11.0 the entire run. l and I feel its a far lot safer. And the car will run a faster ET in the 1/4 mile

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/kieth.jpg


http://www.marauder57.com/Reinhart%20SC%20Banner%201.gif

[Dan]

Yes, this thread is about Vortech. I have seen too many threads closed due to emotions getting the better of us when doing comparisons.

Thanks for the clarifcation, Dennis. But threads like this are always one step away from getting "warm" and then closed, eh?

With the said, both the boost and the power curve of the dyno sheet you posted look very linear.

Which of the two lines is power?
Also, it seems that there is a drop at 3300-3400 rpm and then it seems to climb more steeply. Why is that?

Thanks,

Dan

[MikesMerc]

Mike,

You said, "This sheets should give you a clear picture of how the car will feel and where in the rpm ranges the power can be found. Just look at the torque provided under 4000 rpm between the two. It's night and day."

I would like to know more about the statemen but am afraid to open pandoras box.

Please PM me with what you mean by it being "night and day". I admit to not being to familiar with reading Dyno slips.

Thanks,

Dan


I'll PM you.

[MikesMerc]

I beg to differ and again I thought this post was info on Vortech, but since you have made your opinion here is mine, this car has a 3.78 pulley making 9 PSI and 458 RWHP.

now compare the sheets. your runninng almost 11 PSI and just making 400 RWHP Your Air fuel is far leaner than mine, it never gets to the 11,s way past 4000 RPM you may feel ok with that I don't.

Yes the torque does really not start climbing till about three grand, but I have had other cars show this a lot sooner this car is just a little diferent none really show the exact same sheet, but with 4:10's the car pulls hard all the way to 6000 RPM. But I am making more RWHP at a lot less boost, and look at my AF its almost a flat 11.0 the entire run. l and I feel its a far lot safer. And the car will run a faster ET in the 1/4 mile
[/img]

Dennis,

What do you beg to differ about?

No where in this thread is "my opinion". All I said was that the Dyno sheets speak for themselves about power delivery. That's about the shape of the power curves....it's not about comparing max power output. I even went so far as to say that "Max power tells only a tiny bit of the story". Frankly, I'm just not sure why you are so paranoid Dennis.

The Trilogy dyno sheet is just one I pulled from the forums here. It's not my car so I cannot speak about the set up in detail. Nor is the vortech car. But, be aware that the boost level being run by the Trilogy car is not what comes with the stock kit. Those who choose to run more boost have been doing so quite safely I might add though.

As far as what car would run quicker ETs...well, clearly its the Trilogy cars as of now. The fastest stock motored SC maurader in the land is a Trilogy car. In fact, 4 of the top 6 are Trilogy cars. But, I'm not going to go any further than that. Its irrelevant as most folks don't live on the drag strip anyway.

Street power and daily driving is what most folks want to know about.


SO....now, if everyone is done worrying about max power numbers, ETs, and all the other apples to oranges comparisons that can be made on those two dyno sheets, let's turn our attention to the only thing that can be compared.... the shape of the torque, HP, and boost curves (said yet again for those who did not get it the first time).

"the torque does really not start climbing till about three grand" is an understatement with the Vortech. Look at the curve. The torque of the vortech car even at 4000rpm is abysmal compared to the Trilogy car. The very fact that Dan cannot tell which line is HP and which is Torque says something about centrifugal blower power delivery folks.

Again, I am not saying anything bad about the vortech kit. If you want the power up on the high end of the rpm range, go for it! God bless you. But if you want more power down low (which is undeniably where most street cars find themsleves every day) the roots blowers are better.

You shouldn't have to install tall gears and a big stall on a street car just to get the motor into the higher rpm band so that boost can be found. Now that is my opinion:)

BTW, sorry about going on, I had no idea Dennis was goinna get worked up about a few dyno sheets that Dan asked to see.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

HERE WE GO..........:argue: :nono: :bounce: :P

[MikesMerc]

Don't pin this one on me, I didn't start this :nono:

Dan asked for dyno sheets, and no one helped him out. Finally I did, and then Dennis decided to get himself all worked up again.

:help:

[Zack]

Hey I got a bright idea Dan...
Go get a ride a car with each S/C and decide for yourself.
How can you base a $6000 purchase off of feedback from 'names' on an internet forum?
Ride in the cars, let this thread go, huh?

[Dan]

I am going to try to line up a ride in a car. So far, no one has gotten back to me with an offer but I will wait. To answer your question, owner feedback is a very effective metric of a product. It isn't the only avenue of research that I am doing. It is one of many. I understand your frustration in asking me to let this go but I see no reason to, at least right now. I am just trying to get usable information from the highest concentration of owners who are like me. Isn't that good reason to ask here verses anywhere else?

Zack, I would love to hear from you on the matter but so far I haven't gotten much from you. Especially since your Marauder is the fastest in the quarter barring nitrous. Please PM me with your opinions. I would think that you would have more to say than anyone. :)

Mike, thanks for your feedback. I do appreciate it.

As a newer MM owner I am disappointed that this topic gets people so defensive, so quickly. It truly makes it a lot harder for a person with genuine interest, such as myself, to get a read on what folks feel. I am going to be spending almost $12,000.00 on my car and I want to make the right decision - a fair and open minded one.

In my area a DR car is pretty hard to come by. If I had the chance it would help greatly. If it doesn't come along then I guess I will have to decide from the numbers. My hope is that the holiday weekend is keeping that benevolent person who will offer me a ride in one from speaking up. I don't even need to drive it.

Let's please let this subject continue and cool off a bit. I would hate to see Logen feel the need to lock it.

Best,

Dan

[sailsmen]

Mike, read thru Dan's post, he keeps asking for feed back on the DR Kit. This is a Reinhart forum.

Dan is not asking for feed back on the Trilogy Kit.

[MikesMerc]

That is quite true. That is also why I have been keeping most of my comments limited to PMs.

That said, Dan was asking to see dyno sheets. No one "with a DR kit" obliged him did they? Furthermore, Dan is asking intelligent questions about how to read a dyno sheet. And, frankly, there is no way to understand what a dyno sheet is saying if you don't look at different sheets. Performance is a relative term that needs comparison to offer any value.

When I posted those dyno sheets, I said nothing about "which blower was better". He wanted to know about how the power delivery would feel, and I answered him.

So, get off my back please.

[Bigdogjim]

Dan: If you get your butt to Indy you will be able to see the cars in action on the track!

I can not speak for any member here but you stand a better chance driving one at a meet like this one:)

I know last year at MVI Jerry was taking people for "test" drives in Trilogy car #1.

Just a thought:)

[Dan]

LOL. You said, "Your Butt!"

I don't think that Indy is in the cards for me this year. I get one trip and it will either be to Florida or Michigan.

Best,

Dan

[sailsmen]

I am just tired of all the unpleasantness that has resulted on this board as a result of the Triology vs Reinhart. Like you said he asked for a Reinhart Dyno and feed back on the Reinhart kit.

Dan, I suggest reading "Supercharged!" by Corky Bell.

[Dan]

I am just tired of all the unpleasantness that has resulted on this board as a result of the Triology vs Reinhart. Like you said he asked for a Reinhart Dyno and feed back on the Reinhart kit.

Dan, I suggest reading "Supercharged!" by Corky Bell.

Great suggestion but for almost a hundred clams I am not quite sure. :)

Thanks,

Dan

[JET]

Great suggestion but for almost a hundred clams I am not quite sure. :)

Thanks,

Dan

Dan, get your a:censor:s in your car & drive to Indy. It doesn't matter if you can only stay for a coulple of hours. There is no better place this years & there may never be again a place as good to get feedback & drive all the different DR setups. You are crazy if you can spent $7k plus but can't take a two day trip to make sure that your making the right decision. IMHO i've driven DR's setup & it kicks b:censor:tt however in your questioning it seems like you are looking for someone make your mind up for you. No one can do that. It's like a virgin asking what sex feels like. It can be explained forever but until you expierence it for yourself you really don't know how it feels.

[CRUZTAKER]

I agree John...one can only achieve so much with feedback. If this issue is THAT hard to make a personal decision, it's time to go drive one yourself.

This thread has turned into non-sense....and did you actually expect unadressed users to stay out out of the dialogue when it comes to S/C questions??:rolleyes:

Just drive one already....:sleepy:

[Dan]

Guys,

Please understand that the only thing that I can expect from a BBS is feedback. Therefore, it is logical that feedback is what I am requesting.. I am trying to arrange a test drive as well.

As far as getting input from other supercharger owners, I DO expect to get feedback ONLY from the DR kit owners. Why? Well, for one, it is what I have requested. Two, this is the Reinhart forum (the appropriate place) and three, asking for feedback from the owners of the other types of kits will not give me the feedback that I want.

I am sorry if it sounds like I want someone to make up my mind for me because that is not the case. As I have said before, I am looking for feedback and data from people about the DR kit. I don't know how much more clear I can make this.

Thanks for your feedback and comments, guys. While I am not sure how constructive or on topic they were they were still appreciated. :)

Post #2, 3 and 8 in this thread were perfect and pretty much the type of feedback that I want.

Thanks,

Dan

[HwyCruiser]

Sorry, going against better judgement here.

Dan,

It looks like all the DR owners who felt like taking your bait have. Like suggested previously, the only way you (I, and other fence-sitters) are going to be able to observe the irrefutable evidence we seek is to show up when and where the rubber meets the road. It looks like Indy is where it will be. Can't go? Then I hope you do get a chance to drive a DR MM, but that and a flip of the coin will be all the info you need.

- JD

[Dan]

I might fly down to Florida to drive one. Like someone said, 7K is a lot to spend without driving it. We'll see.

FYI - It was very hard to not take your last sentence the wrong way. If you look at it at face value it is very condescending. Nonetheless, I did. I just figured I would let you know for your own purposes. :) (Peace, Brothah)

Dan

[MM03MOK]

I might fly down to Florida to drive one. Like someone said, 7K is a lot to spend without driving it. We'll see. Fly out to Indy. That's where Dennis will be!! Zack and Keith will be there too with their DR S/Cs!

[Bigdogjim]

Fly out to Indy. That's where Dennis will be!! Zack and Keith will be there too with their DR S/Cs!

Dan: If you don't want to listen to the Big Dog......

then listen to the Bunny:)

Fly/drive to Indy :up:

[HwyCruiser]

I might fly down to Florida to drive one. Like someone said, 7K is a lot to spend without driving it. We'll see.

FYI - It was very hard to not take your last sentence the wrong way. If you look at it at face value it is very condescending. Nonetheless, I did. I just figured I would let you know for your own purposes. :) (Peace, Brothah)

Dan

There you go. All better.

- JD

[MarauderMark]

Vortech Car:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/487000-487999/487512_68_full.jpg





Hey ,thats mine sheet..Yaaaayyyyyy :banana: :)

[sailsmen]

Mike is right. You need to drive different MM's w/ different S/C to decide. Perhaps MMville II. The info we are giving you does not describe the experience.

The book "Supercharged!" retails for $35. It will give you insight as to the technical pros/cons of the different S/C systems and how to evaluate the components of the different kits.