14" of fun

[Todd TCE]

Hello everyone.

Thought I'd put an offer on the table.

As you know I did the 14" rotor kit on Logans car with some 'non spec' rotors which I chose not to put into production. However I do have the proper ones on the shelf and would like to fit the final kit to a car. This kit will NOT clear the factory wheels (despite the fact that Logans do) and you'll neeed a bit more room behind the spokes due to the rotor being 1.25" wide rather than the narrower 1.10 of the 13" kit.

The price of this kit is upwards of $1850 due to the caliper change, rotor change and bracket change. In fact it's so limited I don't have it on the web page as I'm not sure there's really a market for it given wheel issues.

That being said, if you have aftermarket wheels and we can verify clearance I'll offer this package: 14" kit, gas slotted, zinc'd and shipped to you (ground UPS in cont USA) for $1600. That's nearly $400 off the the price of this with the options. Why the offer? This is currently the only kit to use these rotors and calipers. That being the case it costs money to keep the parts on the shelf. Lack of interest in this size (and price, and wheel fit) makes it dead inventory. Future orders on this one will be by special order only.

If you have wheels to fit, want a smokin' deal and big ol' brakes this is an offer to consider. It's a one off deal. Please give me a call and we'll discuss the details. :D

[jspradii]

Hello everyone.

Thought I'd put an offer on the table.

As you know I did the 14" rotor kit on Logans car with some 'non spec' rotors which I chose not to put into production. However I do have the proper ones on the shelf and would like to fit the final kit to a car. This kit will NOT clear the factory wheels (despite the fact that Logans do) and you'll neeed a bit more room behind the spokes due to the rotor being 1.25" wide rather than the narrower 1.10 of the 13" kit.

The price of this kit is upwards of $1850 due to the caliper change, rotor change and bracket change. In fact it's so limited I don't have it on the web page as I'm not sure there's really a market for it given wheel issues.

That being said, if you have aftermarket wheels and we can verify clearance I'll offer this package: 14" kit, gas slotted, zinc'd and shipped to you (ground UPS in cont USA) for $1600. That's nearly $400 off the the price of this with the options. Why the offer? This is currently the only kit to use these rotors and calipers. That being the case it costs money to keep the parts on the shelf. Lack of interest in this size (and price, and wheel fit) makes it dead inventory. Future orders on this one will be by special order only.

If you have wheels to fit, want a smokin' deal and big ol' brakes this is an offer to consider. It's a one off deal. Please give me a call and we'll discuss the details. :DTodd, I'd be game for this IF I could find aftermarket wheels that would fit this beast to accomodate them. I need the stopping power. Baer and Wilwood offer front systems that aren't as good as the package you have, except that they fit the stock rims. I've been beating my head over the rims issue for over a year, and so far, nothing useable.:depress:

[Todd TCE]

Todd, I'd be game for this IF I could find aftermarket wheels that would fit this beast to accomodate them. I need the stopping power. Baer and Wilwood offer front systems that aren't as good as the package you have, except that they fit the stock rims. I've been beating my head over the rims issue for over a year, and so far, nothing useable.:depress:


No problem, I'm here to help.

Two thoughts; First the larger kit and its wider rotor is only .080" 'fatter' than the standard kit. That means that in fact one could actually run a fatter wheel spacer and get it to clear. Not such a good idea. Reason is that the minimal gain of .080" is also at a larger radius so it's not double the spacer=double the clearance. On the good side however this does mean that the proposed wheel won't have to be some mondo spoke design such as 5zigens for example where the wheel falls over on its spokes....

Luckily I have contacts with Discount Tire Direct who may aide us in the required wheel. I can send Josh some numbers and he can spit out some ideas. In a nut shell, you need 1.25" from the back hub face of your wheel measured down to the back side of the spokes. Pull your wheel, lay a flat edge on the inner hub face and at a radius of about 6.5" measure down form that flat edge to the spokes. You'll hit. But this is the X-Y coordinate of the caliper body relative to the wheel. Keep in mind these are narrow body calipers and not the all out big boys. We can do more if you have the room.

[jspradii]

Thanks! Let me know what Josh comes up with. I am desperate to get some wheel/brake combination on this that I can feel comfortable with in a 125-130 !/4 time.


Jim

[Petrograde]

have you checked out the ROH wheels? they make 18" rims with the proper offset. The Furys, Drift Rs or Adrenalins are the names of the models.

Will they accomodate Todd's big a$$ brakes? I don't know,... but it's a place to start.

BTW- the Drift R rim looks pretty damn good! link! (http://www.groupawheels.com/prod01.htm)

[Todd TCE]

Will they accomodate Todd's big a$$ brakes? I don't know,... but it's a place to start.


Actually these are pretty tame! The caliper is that of the WW Corvette kit and has an outer body width of only 1.79". This compares to my 'normal' BSL6 of 2.35". That's over half an inch narrower behind the spoke. How you ask? Thinner pads and shorter pistons. It's a world of compromise.

[JET]

Except for the Sean Hyland car i have yet to see anyone that has aftermarket wheels on this car that actualy fit. Is the Marauder the only car in the world that is incapable of fitting aftermarket wheels?

[chrish]

Todd what size do you have that will stop the car better that fit the factory rims?

[Todd TCE]

Todd what size do you have that will stop the car better that fit the factory rims?


13.1 x 1.10 with six pots. Clear the wheel WITH the supplied .065" spacer.

[Marauder8]

Todd,
Ron here on Cape Cod, Ma. Just wanted to say thanks for all the help and so far the Wilwood 13.1 is doing just great. Will call you next week after I do some miles.
Ron

[MarauderMark]

here is one of dennis's cars that have aftermarket wheels.i dont know anything about them but thought this was the place to show em..

[Bradley G]

here is one of dennis's cars that have aftermarket wheels.i dont know anything about them but thought this was the place to show em..Those look pretty close to the factory wheels

[Todd TCE]

Those look pretty close to the factory wheels

I agree. But the real issue is spoke location. Note that you see some 'rim' before you get to the spokes.

Here are a couple of shots from a customer who has my kits on two of their cars.

http://www.ctamotorsports.com/project_svt/svtpicssept0603/IMG_0797.jpg
http://www.ctamotorsports.com/project_srt4/srt4picsmay2904/IMG_1343.jpg


You'll note the wheel design for brakes pretty quickly.

[Petrograde]

wow,... I really dig those rims!!! :up:

Todd,.. I hoping to send some business your way in the future, maybe when I'm done buying all the stuff for the baby. :banana:

[Todd TCE]

wow,... I really dig those rims!!! :up:

Todd,.. I hoping to send some business your way in the future, maybe when I'm done buying all the stuff for the baby. :banana:



Wheel info from Discount Tire Direct. (I'm a dealer too)

"Todd,
Here you go:

18x8 Armano Maebach (chrome)
18x8 ATS Saturn
18x8 ATS DTM 2000
18x8 Club Linea Mysterio
18x8 Enkei CP1
18x8 Enkei LM1
18x8 Fondmetal 9A
18x8 G-Games Falcon 2pc
18x8 G-Games Wolf 2pc
18x8 Konig Blatant
18x8 Konig Theory
18x8 Konig Trouble
18x8 Privat Fahren
18x8 Privat Profile
18x8 TSW Sting
18x8 Voxx Fioriano

These all have 33mm(1.3") of forward clearance from 100-160mm up the wheel
spokes.
All of these wheels are somewhere between 40-45 offset and will put the
wheels 1/4" inside the fender well (appx 1/4" farther out than the O.E.
wheels)"


To see some samples of these go to their web page.
And given they are local, after picking one, I could do a test fit here in the shop also.

[Bradley G]

Todd TCE those are very Bling. I do love the stock rims . the only way I like that wide open look through the spokes is to have rotors & calipers finished Painted or Zink coat if the are rusty or dirty I think it really detracts from the WOW factor thanks for the info / pics

[Todd TCE]

Todd TCE those are very Bling. I do love the stock rims . the only way I like that wide open look through the spokes is to have rotors & calipers finished Painted or Zink coat if the are rusty or dirty I think it really detracts from the WOW factor thanks for the info / pics



I pulled the engineering numbers on calipers and such again while at the shop today. Seems the 1.25 wide 14s are not as bad as I had thought.

The difference between them and the standard kit is actually only .020". BUT that's at a much greater (.500") radius. I'm pretty certain that it won't clear on the stock wheels still, even with the supplied spacer. Still, a slightly wider spacer might work. I'm not too into wheel spacers unless they are minimal. Better to fix the problem right than to mess up something else.

[Joe Walsh]

Todd, I couldn't agree more about the use of wheel spacers... my brother used wheel spacers to mount Cobra 'R' rims on his 2000 CV and has had nothing but problems! (vibration problems) I am interested in the Drift 'R' 18 x 8" rims offered by Group A Autotrends. They have a 49mm* offset and should fit great on my MM, but I don't want to spend all that $$$ if the Drift 'R' rim's spokes offer no better caliper clearance than the stock rims. Have you seen/measured the Drift 'R' Wheels?( www.groupawheels.com) They are in Chandler, Arizona..close to you? I would consider being your 14" Big Brake "Guinea Pig" with the Drift 'R' Wheels. Also, on another note; We had spoken on the phone a few months ago about a 13" Rear Brake Kit but you had not solved the rear axle movement problem..any update? I am looking into having Ford 9" rear axle tube ends welded onto my 8.8" axle tubes. This will allow use of much larger bearings plus the "C" clips can be eliminated from the 8.8" differential and hopefully any axle movement will be eliminated as well. It will create another problem though...the 9" axle tube ends might change all the brake hardware attaching points.
Oh well, nothings easy. *I think the stock rim is 50.8 mm offset
Joe

[Todd TCE]

Todd, I couldn't agree more about the use of wheel spacers... my brother used wheel spacers to mount Cobra 'R' rims on his 2000 CV and has had nothing but problems! (vibration problems) I am interested in the Drift 'R' 18 x 8" rims offered by Group A Autotrends. They have a 49mm* offset and should fit great on my MM, but I don't want to spend all that $$$ if the Drift 'R' rim's spokes offer no better caliper clearance than the stock rims. Have you seen/measured the Drift 'R' Wheels?( www.groupawheels.com) They are in Chandler, Arizona..close to you? I would consider being your 14" Big Brake "Guinea Pig" with the Drift 'R' Wheels. Also, on another note; We had spoken on the phone a few months ago about a 13" Rear Brake Kit but you had not solved the rear axle movement problem..any update? I am looking into having Ford 9" rear axle tube ends welded onto my 8.8" axle tubes. This will allow use of much larger bearings plus the "C" clips can be eliminated from the 8.8" differential and hopefully any axle movement will be eliminated as well. It will create another problem though...the 9" axle tube ends might change all the brake hardware attaching points.
Oh well, nothings easy. *I think the stock rim is 50.8 mm offset
Joe



Good speak here.

If you are serious on the wheels, I'll put the burdon on you to contact them and arrange for me to perhaps borrow one for a quick test fit. Remember I do have the 'corner' here in the shop so doing this is not that difficult. The way I see it; if they expect you to purchase some $ wheels they'd cerainly want to be sure you're happy with the final result. A company rep can come by with it and hang for a bit while to do it if they wish even.

Re the rears, I still have the one prototype in the shop which I've spoken to a few folks about taking. The offer is on the table for $1000 outright. Although I'd wish to get the plates back from someone. I have NO doubt that it will work and work quite well. The big hurdle has been the issue of axle float. This is all too common on such rear ends. It was suggested that some 8.8 rear end axle clips from maybe the Mustang crowd could cure the problem. I don't mean to dodge the issue but the float is ultimately a problem to be resolved by the end user as each of the cars will be different to a degree. However I would certainly welcome more info from one who can and will do the work to install this in hopes of pointing others in the right direction to source the required clips. Still, the big issue here is that the rear kit is NOT a Saturday afternoon project. It's more a 'qualified installer'. That alone chases off prospective buyers. And the cost....which if I do go to production will be in the $1500+ range.

Get back to me on the wheels and I'll look it over!



BTW, those wheels look a 'maybe' for 14s but doable for 13s. Depends where the spoke roll sits relative to the caliper.

And the vibration on the other car is most likely a lack of a hub centric wheel?

[Petrograde]

I really like those Drift R's! I'll be watching this thread closely.

Hey Todd,.. would a pic of the inside of the rim give ya better idea with the fitment of the brakes?

[Todd TCE]

I really like those Drift R's! I'll be watching this thread closely.

Hey Todd,.. would a pic of the inside of the rim give ya better idea with the fitment of the brakes?


Maaaybe. But it's really a matter of the distance from the hub mounting face to the back of the spokes that matters. That will change by the offset you order depending upon how much they mill down the hub face.

Think of it as a flat edge on the hub face, as X and the distance 'down' (assuming the wheels flipped over on the floor) as Y. The X is a radius of about 5.5-6.5" from center and the Y about 1.25" down at that point.

This amounts to the caliper outer body relationship to the hat surface where the wheel sits. Currently the Y distance is probably about 3/4" for the factory caliper? Put a flat edge on the hub between the spokes and see how proud the caliper sits.

[Joe Walsh]

Todd, I'll call Group A Autotrends on Monday and see if we can work out something on a LENDER Drift 'R' for you to measure. I may buy the Drift 'R' wheels anyway because I really like the look. Nothing against the stock rims but I feel that they look a little too 'Urban'.
Talk to you soon, Joe

[Petrograde]

I may buy the Drift 'R' wheels anyway because I really like the look. Nothing against the stock rims but I feel that they look a little too 'Urban'.

ah,... a kindrid spirit. Nothing against 'em really,.. just a bit too bling for my taste.

[Joe Walsh]

Hey Petrograde, what Movie is your avatar from? and who are you beating the h_ll out of??? I hope its not a poor RICER. Joe

[Joe Walsh]

UH OH! Rims DIDN'T FIT!!!, Well I'm glad you are willing to do anything to satify your customers. Are you sure you want me to try those Drift 'R' Rims??? Joe

[Todd TCE]

UH OH! Rims DIDN'T FIT!!!, Well I'm glad you are willing to do anything to satify your customers. Are you sure you want me to try those Drift 'R' Rims??? Joe

NO! I'm kidding, its Sunday, I haven't layed my hands on them yet. I said "first pick"....never mind.

[Todd TCE]

Got the 411 on the wheels today. They will drop off one of the this week to do some test fit on. And bring another style as well.

[Joe Walsh]

Todd, Nice talking with you yesterday...I will check the rear axle 'float' on my MM later this week (I've got to get my Dial Gauge back from my brother). Also, I will give you any updates once I talk to the 8.8" rearend guys that I had mentioned. Hopefully the 'C clip' issue won't be a major problem.... Regards, Joe

[Todd TCE]

I'm sorry to say that Joe's wheel plans as they are now are a bust.

The wheel of choice ROH Drift R will NOT clear the 14" brake kit. The intersection of the spoke and inner wheel section hits pretty bad. It would take nearly 3/4" of spacer to work. We're not going there...

There are three solutions;

1. Go to the 13" kit (we would test fit again to double check)
2. Go to a 19" wheel.
3. Consider an alternate wheel such as the ROH Fury which was test fit and clears with gobs of room. It's all about where the spokes are.

[Petrograde]

I'm sorry to say that Joe's wheel plans as they are now are a bust.

The wheel of choice ROH Drift R will NOT clear the 14" brake kit. The intersection of the spoke and inner wheel section hits pretty bad. It would take nearly 3/4" of spacer to work. We're not going there...

:cry: :shake:

well,... I guess I'll going with a 13" setup when the time comes.

Drift R :rock: :cool4:

Fury :lol: a bit too BLING for me

[Todd TCE]

:cry: :shake:

well,... I guess I'll going with a 13" setup when the time comes.

Drift R :rock: :cool4:

Fury :lol: a bit too BLING for me

The Fury is not as bliing as it first looks in the pic. IF you do it as the one Jeff brought here. That was the "black ice" finish. Kinda polished but dull, like stainless, and a fog of black over it. Interesting look for a MM. Won't show brake dust that I can tell you. Not sure if their web page as a pic or not.

[Joe Walsh]

Petrograde, I agree, I spoke to Todd today while the Group A guy was there and they told me about the FURYs working great..I pulled up the Fury pix on their website while I had Todd on the phone...I don't think that the Furys look that good, I like the factory rims better. I'm going to do some research on 19" Tire sizes because Todd & Jeff (Group A guy) said that the Drift 'R' Rims are available in 19 x 8 & 19 x 9 which WOULD clear the Big 14" Brakes. I really want the 14" Brakes, but I will settle for the 13" brakes and 18" Drift 'R' Rims if I have to.
P.S. I saw 'Michael Bolton' lose it on the fax machine last night, pissed my pants!!!
Joe

[Petrograde]

I really want the 14" Brakes, but I will settle for the 13" brakes and 18" Drift 'R' Rims if I have to.

same here,...


P.S. I saw 'Michael Bolton' lose it on the fax machine last night, pissed my pants!!!
Joe

:lol: Glad ya liked it! Office Space is one of my favorites! :baaa:

[Petrograde]

The Fury is not as bliing as it first looks in the pic. IF you do it as the one Jeff brought here.

Todd,..did ya get any pics of the installed rims by any chance?

[Todd TCE]

Todd,..did ya get any pics of the installed rims by any chance?

Sadly, no. I tried, but the smart media card was at home. Arrgh NO film!

Two thoughts;

1. The shine on the other rim is greater than it appears on the web page, but style wise that's up to you.

2. There is still no promise of the 13" kit fitting even the 18" wheel of choice. There's still some room to question. I'm happy to help test fit again if the option of 19s or alternate wheels is out.

Anyone look over the list I put up from DTD?? Jeeze, that's a mess of wheels...

[Todd TCE]

Seems the demand for the 14" rotor package is just not what it was shaping up to be. No problem as I'm confident that the 13"s are very capable parts without the wheel fit issues of the bigger caliper set up.

So, with that in mind I'm bringing this one down to $1500, gas slotted, and zinc'd. NO DRILLING.

When it's gone, it's gone. I've been sitting on some of the inventory for this for just way too long. I may well keep it on the web page 'by special order' only status and jack up the price a bit for the custom work to build it.

If you've been thinking on this one, get a move on. First one to call and say 'I do' can have it!

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Seems the demand for the 14" rotor package is just not what it was shaping up to be. No problem as I'm confident that the 13"s are very capable parts without the wheel fit issues of the bigger caliper set up.

So, with that in mind I'm bringing this one down to $1500, gas slotted, and zinc'd. NO DRILLING.

When it's gone, it's gone. I've been sitting on some of the inventory for this for just way too long. I may well keep it on the web page 'by special order' only status and jack up the price a bit for the custom work to build it.

If you've been thinking on this one, get a move on. First one to call and say 'I do' can have it!
"sigh" So many opportunites so little money. :depress:

[FiveO]

Sorry Todd.

I do understand peoples hesitance...as this is alot of $$.

I may be in the market but its going to be early spring....

I'm getting a s/c installed and will be in the market for a larger
front set of brakes in the spring....just not now...

Unfortunately...because I know you have a great business going.

[Todd TCE]

No need to be sorry.

I took the risk in doing it. That was my choice. Luckily I have only about half of the kit here on the shelf, but I do have about 30 steel mounting brackets and just selling this 'one off' won't recoupe the cost of those.

I've learned over the years that you just don't jump when people say 'make a xxx kit' or 'I want a bigger one like brand Z' or my favorite; 'I'd buy one if you made a rear to go with it'.

No matter how you slice it, when push comes to shove any product that passes the $600-700 range gets a long look. In the case of brakes you just don't produce kits like this for much less than $1500. And I'm on the low end of the scale! This 14" kit should run about $1800-2000 in the real world. Then again it makes you wonder what a brembo $3500 kit reeeeally gets you? Not twce the product I'll tell you. What it does is place them in a market where they sell one and it pays for things, sell two and they make money. I tend to spread out my long term potential and sometimes it bites me.



* 100 posts?!
:woohoo: :party:

[Todd TCE]

Still looking for a home.
:hide: :director: :cry:

[Todd TCE]

Wow, been a whole month?

Can't believe I'm still sitting on these mondo parts! Similar in nature to what Dennis has been offering this kit goes beyond that with full size six pot calipers and for only a few bucks more!

Nobody out there has larger wheels that can fit these kits? I'll knock off another $100 just to get them off the shelf and on a car.

Take it all; gas slotted or plain, zinc or not, shipped for $1500.

[Todd TCE]

Wow, been a whole month?

Can't believe I'm still sitting on these mondo parts! Similar in nature to what Dennis has been offering this kit goes beyond that with full size six pot calipers and for only a few bucks more!

Nobody out there has larger wheels that can fit these kits? I'll knock off another $100 just to get them off the shelf and on a car.

Take it all; gas slotted or plain, zinc or not, shipped for $1500.


Parts on hand STILL for this one!
A 'smokin' deal for someone.
Bigger, badder, bolder than any other brake option for the MM, could be you.