I'm lining them up and I'm going to KNOCK them down

[Dan]

Today I met a guy with an Impala SS. He was all happy to see my car and wanted to look under the hood right away. I said yes but we never got around to it. (NOTE: My official policy from today on is to never open the hood to anyone that I might race.)

Anyway, the guy owns a 96 SS and is one of the few guys in town with one. Another guy owns an nitrous charged Impala. The first thing he asked me was if I wanted to race and I said, "Sure, let's go, right now!"

Unfortunately, he couldn't go since he was working at the time but he did say that he wanted a "piece of that car." It started out friendly but when he said that I began to wonder. Then he said, "Yeah, Ford copied my car" and..."I hate Fords."

Ohhhhhh. Some people don't know how to keep their cards face down, do they? He went on to talk about his LT1 and that it was still stock and that he had 3.08 gears.

So, I have a guy in an SS and a GTO who want a piece of my MM. Well, GET IN LINE! The MM don't race until the MM is a sleeper. Then I will go out and kick but on the unsuspecting.

BTW- what type of race can I expect from a 96 Imp? Please don't make me research all the back posts on this. Just give it to me straight. :)

Best,

Dan

PS: I joined the BillyG motorcycle runners club yesterday but I won't tell that story here since I know that it might get some folks riled.

[RF Overlord]

BTW- what type of race can I expect from a 96 Imp? Please don't make me research all the back posts on this. Just give it to me straight.

Dan:

In GENERAL (no pun intended), a stock '94-'96 Impala SS will pull away from a stock MM at the green, but, again in general, the MM will catch up and frequently pass the SS right around the ¼ mile mark...

[Dan]

Music to my ears. I figure with the SCT tuner I have a small edge. If I can get the Kooks in before we fine each other it won't be a race.

If it all happens after the charger I figure I can give him the first 60 feet without an issue. :) It would be nice if my only concern was making it look close..

Best,

Dan

[unixadm]

Good luck! I've been driving LT1 B-bodies since 1997. I have 2 LT1 Caprice 9C1's in addition to my Marauder. A stock LT1 will SMOKE a stock Marauder off the line. The LT1 in the Caprice/Impala is tuned more for low end torque, and thus it doesn't breath as well up top. You might take him in the 1/4 mile, but some of the LT1's were factory freaks and faster than others. Remember you've got several years of technology updates, 42 more hp more stock, better gears and a car that probably weighs less. It depends on how well the car is running honestly. Most SS's will have over 75k miles on them, if not 100k or more. So if he does take you, give him a little credit. :)

In reality, the cars are very different. The Marauder winds out to 6k and feels like it's still pulling, while a LT1 feels like it's falling on it's face after 5k. Now put your foot into an LT1 from a stop and you'll be up at Discount Tire getting new rear tires put on in a jiffy. :)

[BlackHole]

Good luck! I've been driving LT1 B-bodies since 1997. I have 2 LT1 Caprice 9C1's in addition to my Marauder. A stock LT1 will SMOKE a stock Marauder off the line. The LT1 in the Caprice/Impala is tuned more for low end torque, and thus it doesn't breath as well up top. You might take him in the 1/4 mile, but some of the LT1's were factory freaks and faster than others. Remember you've got several years of technology updates, 42 more hp more stock, better gears and a car that probably weighs less. It depends on how well the car is running honestly. Most SS's will have over 75k miles on them, if not 100k or more. So if he does take you, give him a little credit. :)

In reality, the cars are very different. The Marauder winds out to 6k and feels like it's still pulling, while a LT1 feels like it's falling on it's face after 5k. Now put your foot into an LT1 from a stop and you'll be up at Discount Tire getting new rear tires put on in a jiffy. :)


Well the MM is about around 50 pounds more. Wheres it at I have no Idea Mine is about 4377 with me in it and 1/2 tank of fuel vs. a friends
96 Dark Cherry at 4320same set up with me in it.

[BillyGman]

Dan, most of the members on here might already know this, but I drove my brother's LT1 equipped 94 Buick Roadmaster for several days while I was installing the Trilogy S/Cer on my Marauder, and despite the Roadmaster weighing 300 LBS more than the Marauder does, and also more than the Impala SS does, that car is just plain quicker from 0-80 MPH than my Marauder was when it was factory stock. The Marauder does have more up at the high RPM range though. However it has nothing to do w/the way it's tuned. it has to do w/the fact that it has more displacement under the hood, and that it's a 16 valave engine rather than a 32 valave one like the Marauder has. With four valves per cylinder the Marauder's cylinder heads can breath a lot better which means more power for high RPM driving.


But since the Caprice, Impala SS, & Roadmaster's LT1 engine has 70 more cubic inches of displacement than the Marauder engine, it has more Low-end torque. But if the driver of the car in question hasn't perfected his take-off technique by walking it out with half-pedal for the first 20 feet, then the LT1 equipped car will just sit there and spin. Just keep in mind that a lot of guys still call their cars "stock" even after they've had the computer re-flashed, or installed a chip. So if he's one of those, then you might not win. I also raced the Impala SS guys last year on the track and what I've learned from that experience is that if they modify the car at the same level as we modify our Marauders, then they will win the race because of the extra displacement they have under the hood. I raced them before my car was S/ced, and the only Impala SS cars that I beat were the ones that weren't modified as much as my Marauder was at the time.

[Directedby]

I raced a white LT-1 (96 or 97) and took him off the line and pulled on him for the full 1/4 mile. Beat him by 2 car lengths.

He later pulled up alongside and asked if I had a blower on my car. He said I had him beat. He said he was sotck with hi-performance exhaust.

He was a little shocked when I told him my car was completely stock.

[BillyGman]

To my knowledge, those three cars only came w/the LT1 engine for three years (94 thru 96) so if the one you raced was a 97, then it wasn't as fast.

[Directedby]

To my knowledge, those three cars only came w/the LT1 engine for three years (94 thru 96) so if the one you raced was a 97, then it wasn't as fast.

96/97 was a guess.

I actually thought it was an Impalla SS without the markings. Another member in an earlier post pointed out to me it was not an SS if it was white.

Maybe it was a 94 or 95 or 96.

[BillyGman]

One indication is dual exhaust. If it had single exhaust then it definately was NOT an LT1 equipped car.

[Directedby]

One indication is dual exhaust. If it had single exhaust then it definately was NOT an LT1 equipped car.

It had dual exhaust.

If it will make you happy, I now think it was a Honda. A four banger. I beat a four banger 1994 Honda.

[BillyGman]

yep, that's what I thought.........

Dan, another thing too is that many of those cars have well over 100K on them since they are about a decade old. So if the one in question was driven hard, and never rebuilt, then it might have seen it's better days. especially in the way of performance.

[Dan]

Wow! Did his car actually beat a 4 cylinder Honda that he thought was an Impala? That is so cool! I hope that my car can beat Honda's, too. :lol:

By the way, it wasn't a 4 cylinder Honda if it had a 1.5 inch exhaust pipe. Did it have a 1.5 inch exhaust pipe? If it was bigger it could have been a 6 cylinder. :lol:

You always need to be sure about these things.

Best,

Dan

[BillyGman]

It must have been this........

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1019big_pipe-thumb.jpg (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/3434/password/ca66a98a00c09c4685fdcfb9de4612 57/sort/1/cat/500/page/1)

[67435animal]

It must have been this........

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1019big_pipe-thumb.jpg (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/3434/password/ca66a98a00c09c4685fdcfb9de4612 57/sort/1/cat/500/page/1)

Now that is one butt ugly POS.

Bob

[BillyGman]

Now that is one butt ugly POS.

Bob
But hey, it has to be fast.......I mean look at the size of that fart pipe. It's gotta add like 100 HP to that thang.........

[Mad4Macs]

But hey, it has to be fast.......I mean look at the size of that fart pipe. It's gotta add like 100 HP to that thang.........

So now it's pushing 150 HP :lol:

[BillyGman]

Lol............

[RCSignals]

To my knowledge, those three cars only came w/the LT1 engine for three years (94 thru 96) so if the one you raced was a 97, then it wasn't as fast.
If there was a '97 it would have been a '96 equipped with a LT1 anyway....

[Joe Walsh]

Maybe that Honda has a JATO assist... something all Hondas need.
He could be that guy from the DARWIN AWARDS who put a JATO on his car.....

[RCSignals]

It had dual exhaust.

If it will make you happy, I now think it was a Honda. A four banger. I beat a four banger 1994 Honda.
Don't worry, Billy will just never believe that a stock Marauder beat any LT1 equpped Impala, Caprice, or Buick.....

It may have been a LT1 equipped Caprice, or a LT1 Police package Caprice.

[BillyGman]

If there was a '97 it would have been a '96 equipped with a LT1 anyway....You mean that there were no Impala SS cars, Caprice classics, nor Buick Roadmasters made in 97. Right? I'm not sure that I was following what you meant. I mean I wasn't sure if there was, but it kinda threw me off when he said that it was a 97 that he raced.

[RCSignals]

Unfortunately, he couldn't go since he was working at the time but he did say that he wanted a "piece of that car." It started out friendly but when he said that I began to wonder. Then he said, "Yeah, Ford copied my car" and..."I hate Fords."

Ohhhhhh. Some people don't know how to keep their cards face down, do they? He went on to talk about his LT1 and that it was still stock and that he had 3.08 gears.



Dan, sounds like the ramblings that may posted on the Impala boards
"Yeah, Ford copied my car" and..."I hate Fords."
Typical scrub guy BS.


He went on to talk about his LT1 and that it was still stock and that he had 3.08 gears.
That was to either scare you away, or set you up for excuses after you beat him....

It has been well established (with the exception of Billy's brother's Buick of course) that stock for stock the Impala SSs (and LT1 Brothers ) and the Marauders are a fair match.

[RCSignals]

You mean that there were no Impala SS cars, Caprice classics, nor Buick Roadmasters made in 97. Right? I'm not sure that I was following what you meant. I mean I wasn't sure if there was, but it kinda threw me off when he said that it was a 97 that he raced.yes '96 was the last year, although I've heard some claim there were a few '96s built in '97, but that seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

To me the '96 Impala SS was the nicest of the lot, and finally had a floor shift...

[BlackHole]

yes '96 was the last year, although I've heard some claim there were a few '96s built in '97, but that seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

To me the '96 Impala SS was the nicest of the lot, and finally had a floor shift...

Really GM extended the Impy SS into 1997 to cover all the orders they received for the last year run. I know over 60,000 was made for 1996 model year.

[RCSignals]

Certainly possible Blackhole. I know many were left over though, and some dealers had them sitting around for a while

[BillyGman]

2 things here RC:

First, I wouldn't neccessarily argue about the two cars being a close match. I tend to get into the debating mode when, and if, some Marauder owners come across like Marauders are all superior in performance to Impala SS cars. As much as I simply Luv our Marauders (including my own) and as much as I think that Marauders look waaay better than any Impala SS, Caprice, or Buick Roadmaster does, I know that the performance that those cars deliver are very close to ours overall,and certainly better off the line, or when attempting to perform a burnout.

Second, I've met, raced with, and conversed w/the Impala SS guys since I'm a member of their board too, and I can tell you for a fact that atleast most of them do NOT fit your discription of being trash talkers. Maybe they did at one time. I dunno. But if that's true, then most of that has changed since MartyO, Fat bastid, and myself met w/them at the Atco, NJ track last year and raced against them.

And that's why I've been trying to get some big talking Marauder owners on this board to get out and race those Impala SS guys this year on October 2nd. So many people talk a good game about their cars, but then you don't hear nor see them when it comes to an opportunity on the racetrack to race those same cars that they had negative comments about via the internet.

And it's concerning that issue that I must give the Impala SS guys a lot of credit. They're serious racers. I know that, because I've met them, talked to them, and raced against them on the track. I wouldn't expect you to be able to show up at the track in New Jersey since you're from another part of the country as far as I know. But there are others here who are quick to jump in and discount the performance of the Impala SS cars. And my reply to them is...... Well then why don't you take the opportunity to have some fun proving that at the track? Particularly if you're from the Northeast. These guys are really a great bunch and they didn't talk any trash about Marauders nor Fords while I was there w/them all.

[RCSignals]

2 things here RC:

First, I wouldn't neccessarily argue about the two cars being a close match. I tend to get into the debating mode when, and if, some Marauder owners come across like Marauders are all superior in performance to Impala SS cars. As much as I simply Luv our Marauders (including my own) and as much as I think that Marauders look waaay better than any Impala SS, Caprice, or Buick Roadmaster does, I know that the performance that those cars deliver are very close to ours overall,and certainly better off the line, or when attempting to perform a burnout.

Second, I've met, raced with, and conversed w/the Impala SS guys since I'm a member of their board too, and I can tell you for a fact that atleast most of them do NOT fit your discription of being trash talkers. Maybe they did at one time. I dunno. But if that's true, then most of that has changed since MartyO, Fat bastid, and myself met w/them at the Atco, NJ track last year and raced against them.

And that's why I've been trying to get some big talking Marauder owners on this board to get out and race those Impala SS guys this year on October 2nd. So many people talk a good game about their cars, but then you don't hear nor see them when it comes to an opportunity on the racetrack to race those same cars that they had negative comments about via the internet.

And it's concerning that issue that I must give the Impala SS guys a lot of credit. They're serious racers. I know that, because I've met them, talked to them, and raced against them on the track. I wouldn't expect you to be able to show up at the track in New Jersey since you're from another part of the country as far as I know. But there are others here who are quick to jump in and discount the performance of the Impala SS cars. And my reply to them is...... Well then why don't you take the opportunity to have some fun proving that at the track? Particularly if you're from the Northeast. These guys are really a great bunch and they didn't talk any trash about Marauders nor Fords while I was there w/them all.
Billy, those lines
"Yeah, Ford copied my car" and..."I hate Fords."Were heard by Dan from an Impala SS guy directly. I have personally read the same lines posted on the Impala SS boards many times, and that is all I was stating above.
Go to the Impala SS boards and search if you don't believe it.
Obviously not all Impala SS owners have that sort of close minded/blind attitude, but some do. Most are just car guys who can respect the Marauder as well as their Impala.


As for stock for stock, again, search for it. Here and on the Impala SS boards. Nothing has to be proven over and over again.

[BillyGman]

RC, I understand that you were commenting on the statement made by the guy that Dan knows, and I have no argument w/you there. As far as the Impala SS board, I HAVE been on it for part of this week as well as a couple months ago. And I've found no comments on there about Marauders that you speak of. Furthermore I've posted a number of times on there as well as started a thread of my own and boldly talked about my Marauder, and none of them talked junk about my car.


As far as the comment you've made about anything that's been "proven", all I've seen are comments about street encounters which are okay, but I dunno if I'd consider any of that proof. On the street, you often don't even know the condition of the car in question nor really what it has under the hood. I've recently learned on the Impala SS board that some of the Caprice police packages did NOT have the LT1 engine even between 94-96, but a smaller engine that was a dog. My point is that on the track you usually get to take a look at the opponent's engine, and talk w/him and his fellow club members to learn what he has under the hood, if it's original, and if it's stock or moded. So I would consider any track experience or stories against the LT1 cars more proof than any street encounters.

Another thing here is also how I remember how several people talked down to me when I posted one of those street racing stories on this board, and how out of place that was for me to engage in that activity and/or post it on this board. But out of those in the Northeast who shared that opinion of me, where are all of them now when I'm trying to create an opportunity for them to drag race on the track against the Impala SS guys? The only one of them who has jumped in to participate is Barry, and I give him a lot of credit since he will be driving a lot longer to this event than most of us from the Northeast.

[RCSignals]

Billy, I don't doubt that in the last week or month there have been no such remarks about Marauders on the Impala SS boards. By now the moderators wouldn't stand for it anymore I'd hope.
You have to go back farther. There were many of them also who came here doing the same. Luckily we have Logan.
Maybe it was all before your time here. Names posting like "Mrotter" etc. Kind of humourous actually.

[BillyGman]

Oh. okay then RC. I hear ya. I still can't help but to think that atleast a good portion of those Impala SS guys who were there at the track racing against the three of us Marauder owners developed perhaps a bit more respect for us and for the performance of our cars as a direct result of racing us. And I think that's really cool. That's what I really want to stress here. For any who are interested, you can read more about that in the "Marauder & CV vs. Impala SS" thread that I've started in the "Northeast" forum of this board. ;)


My point is, the best way to shut them up is to meet w/them on the track. That is, IF you think your car is enough to make a good showing........("you" means anyone here from the Northeast)......

[Dan]

Do people on this board actually get so arrogant as to defame those who engage in the occastional friendly road race? I find that hard to believe.

Best,

Dan

[David Morton]

Thanks for reminding us again of the tiny V-8 we have, BillyGman. It brings the whole Marauder experience thing into perspective for me once again. It's about the technology of our 281cid 32V-DOHC engine, not the brute strength of the 350cid 16V pushrod (albeit roller liftered) LT1 dinosaur.

I see the Marauder as a luxury full-size sedan with a high tech V-8 that suprises almost everybody, even those that have spent a lot more money to outrun our Marauders. I'm saving my money for a Trilogy Supercharger, then a 160mph class driveshaft and hopefully I will be satisfied with that.

But one last word about our engine. I think some of us are missing the opportunity that it's outstanding design can afford us, namely, the extremely high RPM capability of the valvetrain. I want to see the results from a steel-billet de-stroked crankshaft, say 3.2", and a superlight reciprocating assembly. I think somebody is gonna get 10,000+ RPM's out of this engine someday (if they haven't already) and it still be a durable, reliable powerplant. Put a 4500 stall convertor and some 4.88 gears in the rear end to follow up this 10,000 RPM 237cid engine and I'll bet the car will pull anything off the line, except the most radically modified.

[Paul T. Casey]

Dan, with the reflash, you should do alright against a stock SS. Just be careful you weren't "sandbagged" in your previous encounter. As for the Ford vs. Chevy, Impala vs. Marauder, real men don't wear bowties, Fix or Repair Daily, etc. rivialry, man that's why I'm here, why I went to the SS southern shootout (by invitation), why I drive the way I do. For the most part, the Impala dudes are okay in my book. They love their cars, I love mine. I even got somewhat friendly with a couple of the ricer boys last summer. They had some good reasons why they do what they do. Bottom line for me is, I'm a gearhead. I like to associate with other gearheads. When you get 2 gearheads together, someone's ride is better. In most cases, it's both.

[M-75]

Do people on this board actually get so arrogant as to defame those who engage in the occastional friendly road race? I find that hard to believe.
meetoo dude...arrogant seems the rule here, though many also say its the best web site ever. maybe arrogance comes with the car? maybe just for trilogy owners, an them dudes south. all i want to add now, is that i am really disappointed how bullygman dissed directedby. dat was plain rude, who here can pick any rwd wimpala from another in a crowd?

been reading here a while but never felt i needed a cup to post my input.

[BillyGman]

Thanks for reminding us again of the tiny V-8 we have, BillyGman. It brings the whole Marauder experience thing into perspective for me once again. It's about the technology of our 281cid 32V-DOHC engine, not the brute strength of the 350cid 16V pushrod (albeit roller liftered) LT1 dinosaur. Well then David, if that's the case, then why do you want a roots type S/Cer? I mean tell me now what's impressive about a stock 4200 LB car w/a puny 281 cubed engine that can't even lay any rubber when you stomp on the go pedal w/out using the brake pedal too despite having mediocre tires?

I'm saving my money for a Trilogy Supercharger. Okay, now you're talkin David.

Put a 4500 stall convertor and some 4.88 gears in the rear end to follow up this 10,000 RPM 237cid engine and I'll bet the car will pull anything off the line, except the most radically modified. Not only would you be taking the daily driveability out of the car by going w/such an extreme choice, but in addition to taking the car off of the road and making it a track only car, you would be completly overlooking the fact that if you put the exact same degree of modifications and the same amount of money into an Impala SS, Buick Roadmaster, or Caprice Classic equipped w/that LT1 350 cube engine, you would end up w/a considerably faster car. Faster in the 1/4 mile ET, as well as better 60' times.


The one postive point that the stock Marauder has is the cylinder heads. DOHC and having four valves per cylinder means that the heads will breath better. But the fact still remains that when you take an Impala SS and perform the same degree of modifications to it as you will to your Marauder, the Impala SS will beat you simply because of the 70 extra cubic inches that the car has under it's hood. If you don't believe that then put your actions where your keyboard is right now and get youtr Marauder out to the track my friend on October 2nd in Atco, NJ just like I did, as well as MartyO, and FatBastid did last year and you'll see that what I'm saying is true. Talk is cheap. Let these Impala SS guys see what your Marauder can do at the dragsrtip in October if you're so confident. You say that their engines are "Dinosaurs"?? Here's your chance to back up your big talk w/actions at the dragstrip. You can follow me down there if you want, and it will be a fun time for you too. Now what do you have to say? I believe I hear the crickets chirping in the backround now since it got so quiet. Is there something wrong w/your keyboard????? :baaa:

[CRUZTAKER]

I wasn't gonna post in this particular....just read.....

But my very first opinion when I read Dan's post, and I read it before anyone replied....was that....Dan...choose your matches carefully while stock. Actually I thought, " Dan, you never cease to amaze me with your posts...and this was no different."

You have to be kidding sir. It doesn't matter which car was faster from the start. The Impalla will likely eat you up in a street race. And likely in a track race as well.

Get some basic mods, and boast later. As far as now, at this time in your ownership...you'll lose...period.

[BillyGman]

The Impalla will likely eat you up in a street race. And likely in a track race as well.

Get some basic mods, and boast later. As far as now, at this time in your ownership...you'll lose...period.AAAAHHHH, some real wisdom emerges here. And this is coming from a guy who races his Marauder often. I fail to see how people can simply read magazines, and hear stories, and simply base their opinions on such cars as the Impala SS, w/out even bringing their Marauders to the track to actually race some of them to find out for sure before they talk and even argue. October 2nd of this year will be your opportunity to race stock Impala SS cars as well as ones that are modified to various degrees. So lets not all sit back and pretend to race these cars through our keyboards. okay? You have a Marauder,and you want to talk? Bring it on down to the track where the Impala SS guys already plan to be and let your CAR do the talking instead of your keyboard. Or is all of that too much reality for you? trust me, I've raced against these guys. they're a class act. they will welcome us there, and some of them will even compliment us on our cars, and it will be a fun time. it was last year.

[CRUZTAKER]

October 2nd of this year will be your opportunity to race stock Impala SS cars as wel as ones that are modified to various degrees.
See ya there Dan.;) :baaa:

[BillyGman]

disappointed how bullygman dissed directedby. dat was plain rude, who here can pick any rwd wimpala from another in a crowd?

LOL....hey you're really breaking my heart. :baaa: That's really advanced psychology you're using there. Why don't you just say something about my mother while you're at it????

But seriously, if you want to talk about the "Wimpala" cars, then here's your chance to meet some Marauder owners that are relatively close by to you (that is if you reside in the Northeast) and race your Marauder (assuming you have one) against these cars that you're refering to as "Wimpalas". Otherwise you're just another keyboard, and I'd like to think that isn't the case. But I for one would luv to see ya at the track. And I think you'll have a great time meeting other Marauder people as well as Impala SS people too.

[David Morton]

Sorry you didn't get the gist of my post BillyG. I'm not dissing the LT1 dinosaur, hell I worked for Chevoldsmopontibuick for ten years. I'm just stating we're maybe missing the hidden value of our great DOHC 4 valve design. Making a 350 2 valve pushrod engine that'll do 10,000 RPM's is very expensive and tends to stuff valves inside the ports. Not to mention the bottom end dynamics with a 3.5" stroke. Getting 10,000 RPM out of our valvetrain should be no problem, there's almost no mass to overcome with high tension valve springs. The only problem is the bottom end and we may overcome that with a de-stroker.

I'm just talking theoretical limits man. I'm not bragging. Take a pill dude. I don't have time to sit here and wait for you to post your rant so I can immediately reply.

I think 10,000 RPM's is attainable for this engine, with reliability. The only question is how short a stroke do we have to go to. 3.25" is the old 327 stroke and there's been plenty of those in Super Stock doing 10,000 RPM's for decades. The valvetrain has always been the weak link on those motors.

I think we have a technology advantage with the 32V DOHC. That we do as well as we do against the LT1 equipped cars is obviously because of the better breathing heads, but that is not the only advantage this design gives us. And maybe not the best advantage. 237 x 10,000 = 474 x 5,000 = 350 x 6,771.428. Get it?

Peace.

[BillyGman]

Like i said, theories are one thing, actual racing is another. talk is cheap. I'll be racing the Impala SS guys while you're still sharing theories about them and their cars. I don't dispute your opnions about RPM capabilities, but if the engine in question doesn't have the power to get up to those RPM's very quickly in the first place, then the lower tech engined car w/more displacement will be far ahead. Go to the track to prove your theories have merrit. I have. And I've posted timeslips to back it up, and to possibly help those on this board who are in the middle of decisions concerning mods to their cars. Where are your timeslips, and who have you helped?

You haven't even owned your Marauder for two months yet, and you're going to tell us how it would fare against an Impala SS? What's wrong w/this picture?

[stumpy]

Do people on this board actually get so arrogant as to defame those who engage in the occastional friendly road race? I find that hard to believe.
I would hope so, if not the loved ones of the deceased sure would like a crack at them. Street racing is deadly! If you want to race, I say do it at the track! If you can't, then pls do it on a deserted road where the innocent can't get hurt.

As for the old pushrod dinosaur, it seems to work for the NASCAR folks that seem to run around the track at 9,000 RPM. A stock LT1 bottom end is good for up to 7,200 RPM, but the stock heads don't flow well enough to warrant such high reving. Most guys with strokers rev em to around 6,800. As for why Chevy stayed with the push rod design, I'm at a loss. They introduced a nice OHC 4V per cylinder engine (LT5) in 1990 that produced 375 HP. Speculation has it that it's what prompted Ford to design the modular motor as well as the inspiration for Chrysler to create the Viper. Now they go and make another pushrod engine that cranks out 400 HP in base configuration? Guess there's still some life left in the old push rod design.

[RCSignals]

Oh. okay then RC. I hear ya. I still can't help but to think that atleast a good portion of those Impala SS guys who were there at the track racing against the three of us Marauder owners developed perhaps a bit more respect for us and for the performance of our cars as a direct result of racing us. And I think that's really cool. That's what I really want to stress here. For any who are interested, you can read more about that in the "Marauder & CV vs. Impala SS" thread that I've started in the "Northeast" forum of this board. ;)


My point is, the best way to shut them up is to meet w/them on the track. That is, IF you think your car is enough to make a good showing........("you" means anyone here from the Northeast)......
I think that's part of the change of attitude from the Impala camp Billy. Meeting Marauders and owners face to face.

You speak of Marauder owners boasting of their cars ability without racing. I don't see much of that on here Billy.
Frankly the boasts of superiority first came, and loudly, from the Impala boys. All based on faulty magazine articles.
Many of them got a surprise when it came down to reality, and started to change the tune.
But again, I think all that was before your time here. Just as well.

[Dan]

I wasn't gonna post in this particular....just read.....

Actually I thought, " Dan, you never cease to amaze me with your posts...and this was no different."

You have to be kidding sir. It doesn't matter which car was faster from the start. The Impalla will likely eat you up in a street race. And likely in a track race as well.

Get some basic mods, and boast later. As far as now, at this time in your ownership...you'll lose...period.

What is it that "never ceases to amaze you"?

Dan

[BillyGman]

.

As for the old pushrod dinosaur, it seems to work for the NASCAR folks that seem to run around the track at 9,000 RPM. A stock LT1 bottom end is good for up to 7,200 RPM, but the stock heads don't flow well enough to warrant such high reving. Most guys with strokers rev em to around 6,800. As for why Chevy stayed with the push rod design, I'm at a loss. They introduced a nice OHC 4V per cylinder engine (LT5) in 1990 that produced 375 HP. Speculation has it that it's what prompted Ford to design the modular motor as well as the inspiration for Chrysler to create the Viper. Now they go and make another pushrod engine that cranks out 400 HP in base configuration? Guess there's still some life left in the old push rod design.AAAAHHHH, more words of wisdom from another RACER!!!! And one who is quite experienced at that, and who also races an Impala SS, and who was there at the track to race against the three of us Marauder guys who were also there. I won't touch on the street racing issue since Glen and I have already talked about that in another thread, and that's off topic anyway.

[RCSignals]

They introduced a nice OHC 4V per cylinder engine (LT5) in 1990 that produced 375 HP. Speculation has it that it's what prompted Ford to design the modular motor as well as the inspiration for Chrysler to create the Viper. Now they go and make another pushrod engine that cranks out 400 HP in base configuration? Guess there's still some life left in the old push rod design.
That's a nice thought, but I seriously doubt that engine prompted Ford to design the mod engine, or Chrysler to design the Viper. The mod engine was in development before that.
Ford has a history of tinkering with OHC engines.

As for the latest pushrod engine from GM, there is an article in one of the recent racing magazines, where GM basically admits they took their head design from a Ford design.

I figured this thread would eventually bring the SS guys out of the woodwork. Nice to see you back again.

[BillyGman]

I think the issue that might be overlooked here, is that the Impala SS guys drive American made RWD cars that have good ole V8 muscle in them just like our Marauders have. These aren't Rice-A-RONI fartpipe boys we're talking about. When i went to the track in Atco, NJ last year w/Marty, Gavin, myself, and Marty weren't greeted by a bunch of baggy pants duo-rag wearing ricer boys. We were greeted and even ENCOURAGED by a bunch of mature class-act racers who are great sportsman, and who drive some big Luxo-barges like ours that are RWD and have V8 engines under the hood, and that sound great when they rev em up just like our cars engines do.

These guys are in a certain way our counterparts, and all of them that I spoke to that day at the track speak our language. You want to talk exhaust w/them? They won't be talking about adding one header like the ricer boys will. You want to talk about rear end gear ratios, you won't get lost in their conversations of wrong-wheel-drive. These guys are all on our level man!!! And if you can't see that simply because they drive a General Motors product and you drive a Ford product than you need to get a life and get over all those childish issues. Because let's face it folks, neither GM, nor Ford has any undying loyalty to any of us anyway. So why you wouldn't look forward to racing these guys and hanging w/them at the track for the afternoon is beyond me. Just please think about that for a minute, uh?

[RCSignals]

I don't think that's lost on anyone here Billy.

[BillyGman]

I don't think that's lost on anyone here Billy.
I hope you're right about that RC. But sometimes I wonder. :rolleyes:

[stumpy]

That's a nice thought, but I seriously doubt that engine prompted Ford to design the mod engine, or Chrysler to design the Viper. The mod engine was in development before that.
Ford has a history of tinkering with OHC engines.

As for the latest pushrod engine from GM, there is an article in one of the recent racing magazines, where GM basically admits they took their head design from a Ford design.

I figured this thread would eventually bring the SS guys out of the woodwork. Nice to see you back again.
Well then they must have tinkered for a long time because they released their first modular engine 5 years after the LT5 was introduced. Oh well, it's all good. We're just here to have fun I hope and I don't take it as anything else. As a former Ford owner I can say with pride that it's at least the second best product on the market. :D

BTW, I think I read the same article about the heads. As most racers will tell you, the power is in the heads!

[RCSignals]

Well then they must have tinkered for a long time because they released their first modular engine 5 years after the LT5 was introduced. Oh well, it's all good. We're just here to have fun I hope and I don't take it as anything else. As a former Ford owner I can say with pride that it's at least the second best product on the market. :D
Five years after 1990? not exactly.

Ford had an OHC engine in WW2 for tanks, and an experimental OHC set up for the Y-block in the 50's.
I've read of OHC set ups they had been experimenting with in the 30's using the Flathead V8.

[duhtroll]

Hmm . . .

I guess I'm bored enough to offer my $0.02. :D

I beat Impala SSs when my MM was stock, and I'm still beating 'em. I don't need a time slip or a track to figure that out. I don't care what condition his car is in or how many miles are on it. In all cases except one "he" challenged me, not the other way around. He chose to race his car in whatever condition it's in.

What this doesn't mean is that my car is better than all Impalas. What it does mean is that those who are saying stock Imapala SSs beat stock Marauders ain't exactly correct.

These guys (the Chevy owners) should be our FRIENDS - at the very least by comparison - in this whole endeavor. Most of the ones that had expressed hostility towards wanting to get along I found on Chevy boards. And no, I didn't go in and start taunting people. I thought our board was a bit more evolved than that.

-A

[RCSignals]

Hmm . . .

I guess I'm bored enough to offer my $0.02. :D

I beat Impala SSs when my MM was stock, and I'm still beating 'em. I don't need a time slip or a track to figure that out. I don't care what condition his car is in or how many miles are on it. In all cases except one "he" challenged me, not the other way around. He chose to race his car in whatever condition it's in.

What this doesn't mean is that my car is better than all Impalas. What it does mean is that those who are saying stock Imapala SSs beat stock Marauders ain't exactly correct.

These guys (the Chevy owners) should be our FRIENDS - at the very least by comparison - in this whole endeavor. Most of the ones that had expressed hostility towards wanting to get along I found on Chevy boards. And no, I didn't go in and start taunting people. I thought our board was a bit more evolved than that.

-A
a great, honest post!

[Fourth Horseman]

Now put your foot into an LT1 from a stop and you'll be up at Discount Tire getting new rear tires put on in a jiffy. :)

Haha! Well said! :lol:

[Smokie]

I'm not going to get caught up in the MM vs. SS passions. The original first post asked the question, what can I expect if I run a stock SS ?

Watch this and judge for yourself: CLICK (http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/248Atlanta_03.WMV)

The facts: I am driving the MM in near lane, reprogrammed PCM all stock otherwise.
The SS had exhaust work and what SS guys usually refer to as minor mods, high discharge ignition, cold air intake with cone air filter, TB bypass. If you notice I raced the same guy 3 times, he won twice; I won last race.
I started the day with 15.2 finished with a 14.7.
When I removed the cooler, tools and other crap I had in the trunk car lost about 175 pounds and it ran faster.

[BillyGman]

Nice vid Javier. :up: It looked like that in atleast two of those races, the Impala SS was spinning it's tires coming off the line and your car wasn't. So either the guy had lousy tires, or he didn't take the air pressure down in them. And while driving on the street taking off from a traffic light, the driver of an Impala SS will even have more of a traction problem since there's no VHT traction compound on the street like there is on the track. So if the driver in question doesn't know how to walk the car out of the hole at half pedal for about the first 20 feet, and then get into full throttle right after that, then his Impala SS will not get the jump off the line while up against a stock or mildly moded Marauder. And that is the only way a Marauder like that will get the jump on a Impala SS driver off the line. That's what I've been trying to tell some people on this thread. :rolleyes:

I'm very familiar w/having to use that technique coming off the line since I've had to deal w/that same traction issue ever since I put the 4.56's in the rear of my Marauder which was before it was S/Ced. And when I drove my brother's LT1 equipped 94 Buick Roadmaster for almost a full week, and it was the exact same way coming off the line from a traffic light. And that car doesn't have 4.56 gears w/a 3,000 RPM stall speed that my car has had for awhile now even before the S/cer instalation took place. Infact his car is 300 lbs heavier, and merely has 273 ratio gears in the rear. Pretty impressive low-end torque. the car will smoke the tires into second gear from a dead punch, and that's w/fairly new rubber in the back. However, w/the right technique, I recorded a 6.3 sec 0-60 MPH time using the G-Tech meter w/that car. Again, that's w/stock tires, highway gearing, no chip, and a car that weighs 300 lbs more than a Marauder or an Impala SS does (a whopping 4500 Lbs dry weight!!). And it took .410 gears and a chip for me to record that same 0-60 MPH reading w/my Marauder using the same device to measure, and on the same stretch of road at temperatures that were within 5 degrees of eachother.

So you'll smoke an Impala SS off the line w/your stock Marauder IF the driver in question doesn't know how to launch his car, but merely knows how to do burnouts w/it. But if he does know how to launch his Impala SS, then he will jump right in front of a stock Marauder off the line every time.

I've driven both cars as well as raced my Marauder at the track against several Impala SS cars, and I know that's the case. If your Marauder is stock, you can even beat my S/Ced Marauder off the line IF I get into the gas pedal too much and get my tires spinning. Does that mean your stock Marauder is faster than my car? No way. It's the driver in question, and on the street w/a car that can spin the tires off the line like that, the driver skill is much more important.

W/ a stock Marauder, driver skill isn't as important nor is it a factor at all since the car cannot spin the tires at all from a dead punch anyway. All as you have to do is just sit there, wait for the light to turn green and punch it. Sure you can load up the torque converter a little bit by using two feet, but I really don't believe that it makes much difference w/a stock Marauder. W/an Impala SS car's low-end torque, proper launching technique is much more of a factor just like it is w/a S/Ced Marauder on the street. And that goes even if you're running drag radials on the street.

Thanks for the vid Javier. That was cool!!!

[Dan]

I think the issue that might be overlooked here, is that the Impala SS guys drive American made RWD cars that have good ole V8 muscle in them just like our Marauders have. These aren't Rice-A-RONI fartpipe boys we're talking about. When i went to the track in Atco, NJ last year w/Marty, Gavin, myself, and Marty weren't greeted by a bunch of baggy pants duo-rag wearing ricer boys. We were greeted and even ENCOURAGED by a bunch of mature class-act racers who are great sportsman, and who drive some big Luxo-barges like ours that are RWD and have V8 engines under the hood, and that sound great when they rev em up just like our cars engines do.

These guys are in a certain way our counterparts, and all of them that I spoke to that day at the track speak our language. You want to talk exhaust w/them? They won't be talking about adding one header like the ricer boys will. You want to talk about rear end gear ratios, you won't get lost in their conversations of wrong-wheel-drive. These guys are all on our level man!!! And if you can't see that simply because they drive a General Motors product and you drive a Ford product than you need to get a life and get over all those childish issues. Because let's face it folks, neither GM, nor Ford has any undying loyalty to any of us anyway. So why you wouldn't look forward to racing these guys and hanging w/them at the track for the afternoon is beyond me. Just please think about that for a minute, uh?

I have to agree with you on this one, Bil. Even though we play like we don't like each other for the Ford/Chevy thing I think that, down inside, we all still have a lot of mutual respect for carrying on in a fine tradition.

best,,

Dan

[BillyGman]

Thanks for that acknowledgement Danny. I appreciate that. :burnout:

[Smokie]

Billy, you stated exactly my feelings about the SS guys, when is all said and done and the smoke clears. :beer: :beer: :beer: and let's :burnout: again !!!

[David Morton]

NASCAR is running pushrod engines because they can't run anything else. If they could run $50,000 DOHC 32 valve engines, trust me, they'd be winding 12,000 RPM at least.

Does anybody know if anyone has explored the high RPM capability of our engine?

Oh, and Billy before you start yelling at me, where did you get the idea that I care if you yell at me? Why do you seem to think I have to go to the strip and come "prove" something to you with time slips in order to know what I'm talking about? Did you think I expect you to agree with me? Did you think it mattered to me? I don't need your approval, it's not a part of my ego-support network.

I'll say it again another way. Sure our heads breathe great, but that's not the greatest potential of the 32 valve DOHC design. It's high RPM's where this baby could really shine.

[BillyGman]

Dave, listen, my first instinct was to go toe to toe w/you about your last post. But hey, let's just let it go man. Furthermore, I apologize for getting pretty heavy w/you. I'm not apologizing for what I said as far as my points about the performance issues, and hi-perf stuff, but for the way in which I said it. Wether you care or not is on you.


But I admit that I could've been more tactfull about bringing out the actual content of my points. And the fact that I wasn't is why I'm apologizing. I hope you'll accept my apology. Yes, I still disagree w/some of the points you've made, but I've already stated my case over and above what I needed to, so there's no sense in rehashing it. I just got a bit defensive when you made it a point to call me out by name indicating that you didn't like my comments about our Marauder being under powered. That's all. Just food for thought Dave. Let's just let it go. Okay?

[Logan]

How'd I miss this? This thread is done. Everyone unbunch their panties from the wad.