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dwasson
08-24-2004, 09:38 AM
Incentives on domestic cars tarnish image, customers say
BY JOHN PORRETTO
ASSOCIATED PRESS

August 24, 2004


The cash rebates and financing deals that Detroit's three automakers have used to drive business in recent years are diminishing the value of their vehicles in consumers' eyes, a quarterly survey of customer satisfaction indicates.


The latest American Customer Satisfaction Index, compiled by the University of Michigan, shows satisfaction among owners of domestic brands continues to lag that of Japanese and European companies, despite quality improvements General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group of DaimlerChrysler AG made in the past few years.


The new survey, released Tuesday, is based on telephone interviews with roughly 6,000 vehicle owners in the April-June period, ACSI officials said.


"Major recalls notwithstanding, the Big Three are basically holding their own with foreign automakers when it comes to quality and reliability," said Claes Fornell, a business professor at U-M who oversees the index. "Where they fall short is on value for money."


The primary culprit, Fornell said, is incentives that started in earnest soon after the 2001 terrorist attacks and continue to be an industry hallmark and drain on profits.


In July, the average outlay per vehicle from GM, Ford and Chrysler was $4,088, up from $4,000 a year earlier, according to Autodata Corp. Japanese automakers were offering far less last month -- $1,498 per vehicle on average -- as were the European brands -- $2,783.


"What customers are perceiving is they get more value for their money from the Japanese," Fornell said. "Once you resort to that type of promotion, it's difficult to get out of it."


At Ford, spokesman Dave Reuter said the company hopes the upcoming introduction of vehicles such as the next-generation Mustang and Five Hundred sedan, will allow it to sell with lower incentives.


The findings in the index were not all bad.


In terms of overall customer satisfaction, Ford's Lincoln and Mercury brands ranked highest among the 20-plus nameplates in the survey. On a rating scale of 0 to 100, Lincoln-Mercury scored 86, 7 points higher than the industry average and a 6.2-percent improvement from 2003.


Lincoln-Mercury was followed by Honda Motor Co. (85); BMW and Toyota Motor Corp. (84 each); and GM's Buick and Cadillac nameplates (83 each).


Among those scoring below the average of 79: Mazda (78), DaimlerChrysler's Jeep and GM's Chevrolet (77), Ford (76) and Dodge (75).

the fat bastid
08-24-2004, 02:44 PM
all i know is that those rebates let me afford my car.
it doesnt tarnish anything for me, i wouldnt have it otherwise.
Sounds like a good value to me.
:dunno:

QWK SVT
08-24-2004, 05:43 PM
I don't get it!?! To me, value for your money is greater, as a result of the "deal" - not the opposite :confused:

Do you trust the ones on the other end of the spectrum - the "no haggle" car dealers? I know I don't...

I'll try to get a deal on a TV, furniture, a house, and every other big ticket item. If you are unable to negotiate with me, I'll find someone who can...

My experience with the Japanese brands - specifically Honda - was that the sense was "If you're not willing to pay our price, someone else will, so F'off!" This was in more than one dealership, too... Turned me off, and I won't be going back.

Joe Walsh
08-24-2004, 05:59 PM
I don't get it!?! To me, value for your money is greater, as a result of the "deal" - not the opposite :confused:

Do you trust the ones on the other end of the spectrum - the "no haggle" car dealers? I know I don't...

I'll try to get a deal on a TV, furniture, a house, and every other big ticket item. If you are unable to negotiate with me, I'll find someone who can...

My experience with the Japanese brands - specifically Honda - was that the sense was "If you're not willing to pay our price, someone else will, so F'off!" This was in more than one dealership, too... Turned me off, and I won't be going back.

Couldn't AGREE MORE... The $3,500 rebate on my MM was a Deal Maker.
I'm not afraid to haggle over a purchase..I think its kinda fun. The 'no haggle' (Saturn) dealerships are for people who are afraid/too dumb to demand a lower than list price...so everybody pays list price. Nice for the dealer; $$$$$$$$$$$!! I actually looked at a Toyota (I know, I'm sorry, and I WON'T ever do that again...must have been 'vapor locked' ) a few years ago and asked the salesman why they cost so much and why there were NO incentives. He said "Because Toyotas are so much better than other cars." "We will sell that truck at List if you don't buy it." Well, I walked out and gave him the opportunity to prove his claim.

dwasson
08-24-2004, 06:27 PM
Couldn't AGREE MORE... The $3,500 rebate on my MM was a Deal Maker.

My take on it is a little different I guess. If I wouldn't buy the Marauder at $33,500 but I would with the $3500 rebate then the car isn't worth $33,500.

Joe Walsh
08-24-2004, 06:33 PM
I won't argue that point...the MM have (had) too high a List price.

gilby04
08-24-2004, 09:08 PM
My take on it is a little different I guess. If I wouldn't buy the Marauder at $33,500 but I would with the $3500 rebate then the car isn't worth $33,500.

In my view, "VALUE" (for the money) suggests the excellence attributed to something with reference to its usability and/or importance. "WORTH" tends to imply the desirability of something material as measured by its equivalence in money. The true WORTH of a book, for example, cannot be measured by its commercial VALUE.
In keeping with how RoyLPita closes his posts, "just my .02 and then some".

dwasson
08-25-2004, 06:06 AM
In my view, "VALUE" (for the money) suggests the excellence attributed to something with reference to its usability and/or importance. "WORTH" tends to imply the desirability of something material as measured by its equivalence in money. The true WORTH of a book, for example, cannot be measured by its commercial VALUE.
In keeping with how RoyLPita closes his posts, "just my .02 and then some".

I guess I'm just too cynical. To my mind a thing is worth what it costs to replace. With that as background lets imagine that you bought a car with a $30K sticker and two years later it's worth $20K. Your perception of that car's resale value is that it is 2/3 of it's new value. However, if you bought a car with a sticker of $35K with a $5K rebate and two years later it was worth $20K would you feel that the resale of this car was as good as the first?

I think that the perception that the company has to bribe buyers to take their cars does diminish their perceived value. QWK SVT and others have said that Honda's "take it or leave it" attitude turns them off but it can't be denied that Honda has many people willing to buy a car on those terms. My mother told my little sister that if she acted cheap boys would treat her like she was cheap.

And, as my grandfather said, "Nothing in life is free and only the cheapest things cost money."

MAD-3R
08-25-2004, 06:32 AM
Tanstaafl :twocents: