New Law - Check21

[MENINBLK]

I heard on the news today a new law that was passed called CHECK21.
This is the STUPIDEST law I've ever heard and I don't know how it was passed without our consent.

Under the New Law, CHECK21, Banking Authorites no longer are required to return cancelled checks to the check writer.
This ends in a savings of over $2 BILLION a year for the banking industry.
This is GOOD for BANKS :woohoo:
So, do you think the savings will increase the interest earned on our savings accounts ? :nono:

Now for the BAD NEWS....
And Marty can verify this...

As it was also stated in the same report,
ELECTRONICALLY REPRODUCED IMAGES OF CANCELLED CHECKS ARE NOT ACCEPTED AS PROOF OF PAYMENT !!!

THIS IS BAD !!!

We PAID for our checks, and most people who write checks to pay their debts want the cancelled checks back!
After all they are still LEGAL DOCUMENTS and belong to the Originator once cancelled.

So this law goes into effect this October.
If you still want to keep getting your checks returned to you, you are one of two things...

1 - SOL

2 - At the Mercy of the Bank.

There is no FEE SCHEDULE for the banks to charge us for returning our checks to us,
so we will be at the mercy of the banks to charge us to death for every little thing they do for us now...


Stay Tuned....
I've already written a letter to CITIBANK asking about this.
I turned them down a few years back, when they wanted to hold my checks and not return them to me.
They will provide ELECTRONICALLY REPRODUCED IMAGES of BOTH SIDES of the Cancelled check,
but what good are they if the ELECTRONICALLY REPRODUCED IMAGES aren't acceptable anywhere ???

[01 Interceptor]

I agree, this is bad. Does this new thing also include the check being run just like a debit card at retailers? I noticed most places around the Seattle area (i.e. Old Navy) are doing this and giving you the voided check with your receipt.

[BillyGman]

I agree w/you, however, I think that all of this is just another small step in the direction that we're headed in.......a world w/out any currency. From what I've read, it definately sounds like the worldwide banking system already has plans on doing away w/money, and going to a system that gives people a worldwide personal number which only requires a mark, or bar code of some kind. No more currency, nor written checks will be needed. But they cannot create a smooth transition to this system by jumping into it abruptly. So instead, they're going to continue to take small steps like the one you've just explained to push society further and further away from currency, and from bank accounts as we now know them.

[FordNut]

To me it's more government intrusion. Something else we don't want being forced on us. Most credit unions have not returned cancelled checks for a number of years. The banks have pushed for this legislation to reduce their costs. I hope it backfires on them and many customers close their accounts in favor of credit unions.

Like digital TV. Don't want it , don't need it, don't like it, but have no choice about it, gotta buy new TVs soon (or put a stupid box on it to decode the signals).

[woaface]

So is this kind of like when you can't provide your drivers license as proof of residence at the DMV?

[MYSTA KANG]

History repeats itself. I wonder why the wisemen who went through the great depression would bury money in mason jars in thier backyard than go deposite in into banks. Now all of a sudden the banks need to save money-yeah right. Compare the profits to the loses and then come talk to me.

Do they really want to do away with currency and rely on electronic codes and computer generated statments alone. The government has enough problems with teenagers who can hack into the Pentagon computer system everyday. The banks will have even more problems with them. What it boils down to is counterfeiters are getting better and better. And the government needs to find a way to completly stop it. But the bad guys will start counterfeiting the next level of currency aslo. :soap: thank you!

[Cobra25]

Why is our State or Goverment Passing Laws like this. Shouldn't it be left up to the Bank we do Business with ? Then if we don't like it we can go else where.

[MENINBLK]

Why is our State or Goverment Passing Laws like this. Shouldn't it be left up to the Bank we do Business with ? Then if we don't like it we can go else where.

The problem is that you may not be able to go elsewhere if ALL BANKS adopt this new law.
Then where ever you go, you'll get the same story.

No cancelled checks returned to you.
If you want them returned to you, it will cost you $xx.xx a month.
Are you cancelled checks worth that much to you ?

In a Court of Law, YES !!!

[BruteForce]

Found a good "layman's" term explanation of Check21:

Banks No Longer Will Return Original Cancelled Checks (http://www.nclc.org/initiatives/check21.shtml)

My read is that "substitute checks" are the legal equivalent of a canceled check. B of A hasn't sent me canceled checks on my personal account for a couple years or more. My B of A business account still sends checks back though.

[ParkRanger]

I heard on the news today a new law that was passed called CHECK21.
This is the STUPIDEST law I've ever heard and I don't know how it was passed without our consent.

Under the New Law, CHECK21, Banking Authorites no longer are required to return cancelled checks to the check writer.
This ends in a savings of over $2 BILLION a year for the banking industry.
This is GOOD for BANKS :woohoo:
So, do you think the savings will increase the interest earned on our savings accounts ? :nono:

Now for the BAD NEWS....
And Marty can verify this...

As it was also stated in the same report,
ELECTRONICALLY REPRODUCED IMAGES OF CANCELLED CHECKS ARE NOT ACCEPTED AS PROOF OF PAYMENT !!!

THIS IS BAD !!!

We PAID for our checks, and most people who write checks to pay their debts want the cancelled checks back!
After all they are still LEGAL DOCUMENTS and belong to the Originator once cancelled.

So this law goes into effect this October.
If you still want to keep getting your checks returned to you, you are one of two things...

1 - SOL

2 - At the Mercy of the Bank.

There is no FEE SCHEDULE for the banks to charge us for returning our checks to us,
so we will be at the mercy of the banks to charge us to death for every little thing they do for us now...


Stay Tuned....
I've already written a letter to CITIBANK asking about this.
I turned them down a few years back, when they wanted to hold my checks and not return them to me.
They will provide ELECTRONICALLY REPRODUCED IMAGES of BOTH SIDES of the Cancelled check,
but what good are they if the ELECTRONICALLY REPRODUCED IMAGES aren't acceptable anywhere ???

Alternative - Pay your bills electronically and buy retail with a debit or credit card whenever possible. :thinker:

PR :burnout:

[martyo]

My read is that "substitute checks" are the legal equivalent of a canceled check.

Yes, they are.

Welcome to the new millenium folks!

[martyo]

Alternative - Pay your bills electronically and buy retail with a debit or credit card whenever possible. :thinker:

Are you kidding??? The folks around here are way too paranoid for that!

[grzellmer]

Alternative - Pay your bills electronically and buy retail with a debit or credit card whenever possible. :thinker:

PR :burnout:

Bad idea.

Scenario

Go to Grocery store, buy groceries pay with debit card. Store now has
your name and keeps track of everything you've purchased. (Or use store
card)

Now, you would like to get some health insurance. Insurance company buys
data on you, notices that you are a regular purchaser of antacid tablets.
Hmm, stomach problems? - You are denided coverage.

Subscribe to Cable or Digital TV. They keep track of what you watch.

Deal with computers all day. Do not underestimate their ability to keep track
of even the most minute aspects of peoples lives.

Z

[martyo]

Paranoia will destroy ya!

- The Kinks

[ParkRanger]

Bad idea.

Scenario

Go to Grocery store, buy groceries pay with debit card. Store now has
your name and keeps track of everything you've purchased. (Or use store
card)

Now, you would like to get some health insurance. Insurance company buys
data on you, notices that you are a regular purchaser of antacid tablets.
Hmm, stomach problems? - You are denided coverage.

Subscribe to Cable or Digital TV. They keep track of what you watch.

Deal with computers all day. Do not underestimate their ability to keep track
of even the most minute aspects of peoples lives.

Z

Been doing it for over two years w/o any problems. Only write about one check per month at most - the last one to our fellow member in Florida affected by the hurricane. :cool4:

PR :burnout:

[michburt]

Bad idea.

Scenario

Go to Grocery store, buy groceries pay with debit card. Store now has
your name and keeps track of everything you've purchased. (Or use store
card)

Now, you would like to get some health insurance. Insurance company buys
data on you, notices that you are a regular purchaser of antacid tablets.
Hmm, stomach problems? - You are denided coverage.

Subscribe to Cable or Digital TV. They keep track of what you watch.

Deal with computers all day. Do not underestimate their ability to keep track
of even the most minute aspects of peoples lives.

Z
Z,

It's too late to worry about that. Everything about us is already in the air. There is no information about us that has not been dealt out a few years ago. If you have a SS number, no info is private.

Mike:party:

[GreekGod]

Always remember to trust the man who says "I'm from the goverment and I'm here to help you! "

[BillyGman]

Paranoia will destroy ya!

- The Kinks
c'mon, sing it Marty.....

[STLThunder]

I'm a mortgage banker for a large (read that VERY large) bank and we Do accept electronic reproductions of cancelled checks as proof of payment. I approve loans based on these all the time.(i.e. printed off the bank's website).

It is becoming more and more a cashless society. I write less than 20 checks/year. I don't receive a paper statement in the mail anymore either. All my bills are paid online and I have never had a problem with it. Most of my bills are also sent to me as e-bills. (The bank indemnifys me against any loss from fraud, etc.)

P.S. at my bank, even if I wasn't an employee, these services are all free.

[Donny Carlson]

My bank stopped sending actual cancelled checks back to me years ago. My statement has copies -- front and rear -- of the checks, and I can also go online and see an image of a cleared check on my account within 24 hours of it posting. If I need a hard copy, I print it out. It's perfectly acceptable as proof of payment.

The credit union that handles my union's account made the switch about two years ago.

This is the way it's gonna be, and that's that.

[RCSignals]

Alternative - Pay your bills electronically and buy retail with a debit or credit card whenever possible. :thinker:

PR :burnout:


That is what the push is for. That's what the introduction of "Cheque cards" was all about. Some Banks didn't even bother to ask if you wanted one.

It does not matter what the consumer wants!

It's all part of the "Globalisation" plan. Use of the word "Global" in business and Government started way back in the early '80s, when it made no sense, in meaning or contextual use. Now you have an inkling of what the big plan was and is.
Slip it to them slowly, and they will just get used to it and accept it. Especially the young ones.

[RCSignals]

This is the way it's gonna be, and that's that.

Only because the majority of people are sheep, and accept these things without question.

[MENINBLK]

My bank stopped sending actual cancelled checks back to me years ago. My statement has copies -- front and rear -- of the checks, and I can also go online and see an image of a cleared check on my account within 24 hours of it posting. If I need a hard copy, I print it out. It's perfectly acceptable as proof of payment.

The credit union that handles my union's account made the switch about two years ago.

This is the way it's gonna be, and that's that.


That may be fine for your Credit Union, or the VERY LARGE BANK that STLThunder works at,
but if put to the test in a Court of Law, you'll lose...

Without the ORIGINAL CANCELLED CHECK, you have no proof that the Court would accept.
Until this changes, there will always be a problem with this law.

[BillyGman]

That is what the push is for. That's what the introduction of "Cheque cards" was all about. Some Banks didn't even bother to ask if you wanted one.

It does not matter what the consumer wants!

It's all part of the "Globalisation" plan. Use of the word "Global" in business and Government started way back in the early '80s, when it made no sense, in meaning or contextual use. Now you have an inkling of what the big plan was and is.
Slip it to them slowly, and they will just get used to it and accept it. Especially the young ones.
There's a whole lot more to come,and it isn't pretty. Just watch......