Speed Traps

[bchapman]

As I prepare to once again run the gauntlet up the DelMarVa peninsula and do a 650-mile round-trip today in the Marauder, I thought I'd pass along a website that lists speed traps throughout the US.

I'm all for safe and sane driving, but some speed traps are just plain income-generators and set up to snare out-of-town unsuspecting drivers. I had gone 25 years without a ticket until I started doing the Norfolk-New Jersey run up the DelMarVa peninsula. I got two "speeding" tickets over the summer at notorious speed traps on Route 13, one for $110 in Harrington, DE, and one for $78 in Crisfield, MD. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. One officer holds the laser gun and the other officer stands in the road checking for out-of-state license plates and then waves you over to the shoulder to give you your share of the road-assessment tax.

www.speedtrap.org

[SergntMac]

Thanks for the tip, you're not alone in your feelings, or, experience. I got nabbed by Wisconsin Highway Patrol a few years back, and when I showed him my ID for a little "professional courtesy" he said "56 miles an hour in a 55 zone, is 26.25 on the bail schedule, Visa or Mastercard?" He was right, 1 mile over was on his schedule. After the business was wrapped up, he added "think what you want, but you were speeding, and that's all I need." Again, he was right.

I think it's impossible to drive any car, anywhere, and not be violation of some law, however obsecure. These speed trap towns come and go, as the word gets out, they often dry up after the initial windfall in fines. Eventually, the "city fathers" come to link the increase in traffic enforcement revenues with dropping revenues in other local markets, and things settle down to reasonable. However, every one is feeling the tightness in the economy right now, and the temptation to pan the highway for a few speedy coins is often the short term answer.

Good luck on your trip, it does sound like a pleasant drive nonetheless.

[LincMercLover]

Holy crap! Damn... I've NEVER had to deal with a cop like that! Every state has 1 mile over on their schedual, but most don't even go there. $26 for 1 mile though is a little extream, but then again, look at the whole situation! I would definately had words with that cop! Most cops around here won't get ya for 5-7 over. 8-10 you're looking at a warning. Unless you are in a trap, then 5 is where tickets get wrote. Got a 35 in a 25 in a subdivision speed trap right outside of school. Me and about 15-20 other people were the talk of the school the next day... :rolleyes:

[MAD-3R]

Speeding in a housing development.... The ONE place I never do. Pisses off the idiots who are useing it as a shortcut. :)

[BigMerc]

Those Wisconsin cops are tough, here in the south I have never had any experience like that. A senior Georgia Highway Patrol Officer explained the deal to me years ago. After being stopped for 90+ in a 65 mph zone, he declined to issue any citation but asked "wheres my patch?" not knowing i asked "what patch?" he stated " Son , I catch you speeding you give up a patch to your agency! Thats the bounty." After that I keep 5 patches in each car I own, and to date, there are at least 15 of my agency patches in the state of Georgia. But thats southern boys for you we all get along.
We have rules whether it is right or wrong I never cited any officer and never a local doctor when i was on the street, (don't want to be on the table with a slug in the chest and have a guy walk in who is angry with you, and then immediately order 4 barium enemas and a catheter.)

[RF Overlord]

One of the towns here on Cape Cod has a reputation for pulling cars over for "speeding", even if it's only a few MPH over...they pull everybody; locals, tourists, commercial vehicles...

BUT...there's a reason for it. This section of highway was designed many years ago, when traffic was much lighter and people drove more responsibly. There have been 6 fatalities on this 7-mile stretch of road in the last 4 years, and fender-benders occur almost daily. It's now probably impossible to redesign the layout due to local environmental and geographic issues, land-taking lawsuits, etc...never mind the cost.

My point is that sometimes the "speed trap" is there for reasons other than to fatten the town's bank account...

[SergntMac]

Interesting site...

http://www.beatmyspeedingticket.com/

[Billatpro]

You know Mac, being a big city badge most likly worked against you. I do a lot driving in cheeze head country and most of local law is very.... well very mayberry. To BigMerc's story, thats a real nice arrangment but then again for those of us with a "Patch" are left holding the bag.
Breaking the law is breaking the law, if your going to do it be ready to pay the price, what ever that might be! I have not had a ticket for 25 years but I'll soon get one! theres no doubt in my mind, the only thing I ask is to get fair treatment, if he will let a brother slide on 1, 3, even 15, then he should let me slide.

[RCSignals]

most speedometers aren't even accurate to +/- 1 mile per hour

[MassMarauder]

RF - Does the name of that town start with a W?

[LincMercLover]

RC brings a good point, BUT, speed LIMITS are posted, so every driver should be well under the posted amount, right...? Just playing devils advocate... :D

[RF Overlord]

Mass:

No, it's the one just south of that...begins with "E"... :D

[Cooper]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
One of the towns here on Cape Cod has a reputation for pulling cars over for "speeding", even if it's only a few MPH over...they pull everybody; locals, tourists, commercial vehicles...

BUT...there's a reason for it. This section of highway was designed many years ago, when traffic was much lighter and people drove more responsibly. There have been 6 fatalities on this 7-mile stretch of road in the last 4 years, and fender-benders occur almost daily. It's now probably impossible to redesign the layout due to local environmental and geographic issues, land-taking lawsuits, etc...never mind the cost.

My point is that sometimes the "speed trap" is there for reasons other than to fatten the town's bank account...

I know exactly where you mean... it's bad there, REAL bad. I suppose you've also heard about the history of "Suicide Alley"...? (Route 6 from exit 9 in Dennis up to the Orleans rotary). That stretch is an absolute nightmare! I can remember the 1960's & 70's when there were no flexible yellow reflectors or center birm separating the two opposing lanes of traffic. There were 60 mph fatal head-on collisions on a regular basis back then.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Billatpro
You know Mac, being a big city badge most likly worked against you. I do a lot driving in cheeze head country and most of local law is very.... well very mayberry.

I agree, Bill, that's exactly what I think it was.

I have many friends in Wisconsin law enforcement, and they are really what you would expect them to be in the company of citizens and fellow LEOs from anywhere. Just plain old good natured cops, looking out for what's best, at your moment of need, and as we would want them to do.

The discontent between WHP and cops from any state, is legendary in my Mid-West. Many of my friends in IL and WI have recieved the same treatment from the WHP as I have. Seems to be a silent war going on, how it started or why it continues, I can't guess. But, it's there, between us constantly, like two lovers who believe the other is cheating. That's why I took the ticket quietly and paid the bail. He was right and he would not have stopped me without being absolutely right. In his eyes, I was speeding, and that was $26.25 on his schedule. The fact that he pulled me over for 1 MPH over, told me everything I needed to know before he said word one.

As we may expect any US. Marine to be precise with honor and dedicated to tradition, the WPD is likewise precise and dedicated.

I respect that in a Marine, but the WPD is generally known as not very pleasant people, no breaks over anything. The few I have met in LE business, only confirm their "Stepford cops" reputation, they don't even share a customary jargon in relaxed contact. They are out there, among LEOs...somewhere.

There is a very large cop-car collector movement about us, very popular in a semi-underground way. Funny how none of them have taken the time to restore, copy, or immitate, a WHP squad car...go figure.

Sorry for the story here, y'all drive safe, and legal, on WI highways, K?

[Billatpro]

Yea Mac, there is just something about "Police Interceptor" or "Enforcment Package" that says "Kick Ass" sleeper! I'm looking at pick one up myself for every day Beatin the snote out of. StelthVic's car looks relly cool. :rock:

[Billatpro]

By the stelth Vic, whats the CV groups board name?

[Billatpro]

there should have a "way" in that sentance

[RF Overlord]

www.crownvic.net

[Billatpro]

Thanks RF

[RCSignals]

Billatpro Do an internet search, even autotrader on line. There are a few dealers who sell new Police Interceptors. Also apparently there are a few dealers in LA that have some new PIs sitting around, and now that the State has announced they won't be buying them, you might be able to get one.

[SergntMac]

Among the cop car lovers, there are two camps. One camp enjoys duplicating unmarked police cars and they refer to themselves as "Impersonators." The other camp is deeply involved in restoring and preserving original marked equipment, call themsevles "Collectors."

The collectors seem to have more fun among themselves, they stage shows and meets, and offer their cars for movie and TV shows. Lots of pics of lots of hard work here, enjoy.

http://www.copcar.com

[Cooper]

Originally posted by Billatpro
By the stelth Vic, whats the CV groups board name?

Bill, thank you for the earlier compliment on the car. You'll meet many MM fans at Crown Vic (dot) net... ( www.crownvic.net ) B.T.W. "Police Impersonation" is strongly frowned upon by the majority of CVN members.

-Cooper (a.k.a. Stealth Vic)

[SergntMac]

Indeed. I was referring to the style of the cars, not what owners do with them, and I have noted the CVN crew at large frowning on the behavior of a few.

[james_hart6]

Originally posted by SergntMac
>>"56 miles an hour in a 55 zone, is 26.25 on the bail schedule, Visa or Mastercard?" <<


Aww, that ain't law enforcement, that's revenue enhancement :) .

But yer right, Sarge, the law's the law. At least ya didn't git into a war of words that ya could never win.

If yer ever in Warren Michigan, 'n ya git pulled over, 'n the occifer says "You know why I pulled you over?"...

NEVER say "Yessir, occifer, 'cause you had nuthin' to do an' you wanna do it with me."

Boy, some of them traffick occifers can be touchy early in the a.m.

;)

[TAF]

"A law enforcement officer that's out in plain view on the road is truely concerned for your safety and wants to be a reminder to you...

One that's hiding in the bushes just wants your money"

[Beadhead]

RCSignals: interesting that you can buy a new PI in California. Here in Ontario, only LE agencies can by new PI's. Even the plant manager at Ford's Talbotville plant, where the PI's (& our MM's) are assembled, can't buy one!!! Never made any sense to me, since you can buy lots of used PI's, just not new ones??

[UncleLar]

Watch out going to Road America any race week-end,do the limit or a little less,enforcement is EVERYWHERE! Around Chicago watch out in Norridge and Harwood Heights,especially if you're driving a truck. Last ticket I got was in Louisville,Ky. in 1989,was going 20 over,unmarked blue Mustang got me,nice older officer,wrote the ticket for 10-14 mph over the limit,and he could've got me for more if he'd been in the mood. Thanked him,went home and sent in the fine. Was the last one I've gotten,it was the first in 21 years.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Beadhead
RCSignals: interesting that you can buy a new PI in California. Here in Ontario, only LE agencies can by new PI's. Even the plant manager at Ford's Talbotville plant, where the PI's (& our MM's) are assembled, can't buy one!!! Never made any sense to me, since you can buy lots of used PI's, just not new ones??

Actually just anyone cannot go to a dealer and buy a new Police Interceptor. However, if a dealer has ordered an interceptor for a Police agency, and it is refused because of budget cuts, etc, the dealer can often then sell it to the public.
Also, on occasion a car is damaged somehow in delivery, and often then qualifies to be sold to anyone.
There are a few dealers that for one reason or another end up with a few new Police Interceptors that are available for sale to the public. Often they can be found listed on the Internet.
Louisiana just announced it is canceling orders for new Police Interceptors, and I've heard there are some at one ot two dealers that may not now be delivered to agencies. it may be possible that they will be sold to the public if another Police Agency doesn't step up to buy.

Aren't the cars built at Ford's St Thomas plant?

[RCSignals]

Here is a 2003 Police Interceptor for sale on eBay. Only 4250 miles

It has the optional front bench seat though

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400955964

[Billatpro]

Mac, Cop lovers? who said anything about being cop lovers? ain't no stinking cop lovers round here!! :grin:

Thanks for the info guys, I be gettin me a "COP" car to beat around in and you know......I got these red and blue lights and I found this old MHP uniform em........... Calm down Mac! i'm just joshin.

[tetsu]

Mac,

I'm of the opionion that the officer either a) got mad at you personally for some reason during the stop or b) doesnt like people from IL and targets them particularly.

There is some/alot of the B) going on in certain near border counties that start with Racine in the name.

Johnny

[BigMerc]

Well my turn here, in response to the statement that said roughly "if he will let a brother slide on 1, 3, even 15, then he should let me slide.." Well no, he should not, you don't deserve it

We as law enforcement officers are bound together by the profession we have chosen and anyone who is not one of us is "outside the circle".
The truth is the general public has several problems, one is that they just don't understand police work, and they just don't understand the police. It is not a job to us it truly is a way of life.

There is an old police saying about the public which goes like this"We don't like you, we don't trust you, never have ,never will". While I believe that is a bit extreme it illustrates the differences between police and civilians.

While any brother officer, whom I have never met before, is introduced, there is an immediate easyness between us because we share a bond. the same person introduced who is not an officer must go through the initial stiffness that is there when meeting a new person.

While I will extend any privilage to a fellow officer or his immediate spouse, I will not offer that same courtesy to any civilian, because you don't rate that privilage. I won't debate whether that is right or wrong, I simply do not care about its correctness, it is just that way.

There is a reason for this, when you go to work in the morning your percentages of being injured and possibly killed during your work day are absolutely nothing, while ours rates quite high.

Right now at my agency there are 3 officers that are off the job, because of injury while performing their duty, thats 3 separate incidents of injury while arresting suspects. One officer is not expected to return due to extensive damage to ligaments in his foot and lower leg, hes 28 years of age! and at the very least, will have a limp and experience pain for a very long time.

While you bemoan the receiving of a citation, you fail to notice the daily incidents where the fine men of this profession are injured and worse, just performing the duties that they swore to do.

So when you ask about being treated the same, it is absolutely out of the question, you didn't earn it.

And one last thing, if you drove for 20+ years and how many times during those years did you speed and got nothing? how many general traffic laws did you break and got away with it? You received 2 tickets in those years for a couple of hundred bucks, average that out..... come out to maybe a penny an infraction, you are SO ahead of the game...BE HAPPY!!

I feel like the sarge after that rant!

[smith5365]

BigMerc/Sarge: Dad's of P.O's know a lot about what you're saying, and deeply appreciate you're saying it.l

[FirehawkPV41]

Big Merc,

After reading your post, I was very disturbed as too you being a law enforcement officer posting such crazyness. I asked my father to read what you said seeing he's a Chief of Police. He told me if he find out one of his officers was saying something like this, they'd be fired in a heartbeat. I really hope that not all officers share your extreme thinking.

It's the taxpayers that fund your salary, car and equipment. Just remember that!

Andrew

[Billatpro]

Big Merc:

Thanks for letting us know how you feel. I understand your sense of brotherhood and feelings of a thankless civilian population. I understand it all but I also think your point of view is "bull s**t"

My father would whip my ass for something he thought I did and would say "even if you didn't do it, that was for all the times you did and didn't get cought" that was "bull s**t" too.
If you are rule rather then the exception of what we thankless civilians can expect of our law inforcement officer's then we are all in a lot of trouble!! You are a member of the law, not above it.

[RCSignals]

The Canadian Army Provost Corps (Military Police) had a good motto

"Discipline by example"

[BigMerc]

Like I said you just don't understand, and you never will

[Billatpro]

Like I said, :bs:

I do understand, more then you know. I also understand right and wrong and my lifes experiences do not provide me with the right to redefine each as I see fit.

[JamesHecker]

Wow Merc,

What a load of elitist crap! No doubt comradery exists and is a good thing. But your diatribe reeks of an "us against them" attitude that is unhealthy and unfair. We live in the same communities, our kids go to the same schools, we both put our pants on one leg at a time.

No one else has "earned it" ? What about medical workers, firefighters, veterans... what about private citizens that have faced the prospect of death protecting their family or neighbor?

Or maybe your right, maybe you do deserve to be treated differently. And maybe law makers too. Hell they make the laws. They certainly can't be held to the same standard as "normal" citizens, can they?

I respect the job you hold. I respect the office and appreciate all those that make our communities a safer place to be. I regularly participate in community functions that support Law Enforcement and their families.

Of the many friends I have in L E, I have never heard sentiments quite like you described. Certainly I have heard of examples of comradery and even favoritism, but thankfully nothing like the blatantly elitist prattle you’ve expressed.

On the other hand, maybe the flat, nondimensional aspect of communicating in this format caused your intent to be misunderstood. Perhaps you were trying to make the point of the strong comradery and bond that exists within your profession without meaning to offend those of us that don't share that bond. I mean this sincerely. I am not being sarcastic. Again, I respect your office, and want to show you respect. I just think you put your foot in it!

[SergntMac]

Bravo, Big Merc, thank you for telling it like it is. I'll add another dimension to this ticket thingy in a moment.

Guys...If you really want to better understand what Big Merc is trying to explain, go back and read the your replies to his commentary. Right away, you're into the name calling, "elitest crap" and "should be fiired," for a guy that's just telling you how it is. A guy that's been around here as your friend and fellow MM owner for a very long time who's given his best advice and told some neat stories. Y'all gave him up pretty fast, what's up with that?

Neither Big Merc or I created this "use vs. them" system, but we have to live inside it everyday, whether we like it or not. I am sure there are a lot more cops on this board than you imagine, but for now, we know who is not. It's no wonder to me, and it should be no wonder to y'all now, why it's not easy for us to mingle with civilians. And if you think we like it this way, shame on you. I've said it before in another thread, after 25 years of soaking in violence and mopping up chum, I am different than you, I think Big Merc is tired too.

My second rant on behalf of Big Merc, is another element we cops have to deal with over something like a traffic ticket, our employers. Did it ever occur to any of you that cops are held to a higher standard inside the Department they work for? If my boss got wind of me getting a ticket, there would be an internal disciplinary investigation of the matter, and most likely I would be suspended from duty. How many of you face suspension and a loss of a days wages for a traffic violation? One of the officers working for me, bought a new car on a Tuesday afternoon, drove it to work Wed, and purchased a city vehicle sticker (wheel tax) on his lunch hour. Nonetheless, his car was observed on police property without a sticker for a few hours, and he was cited. That was a 50. fine on the ticket, and a one day suspension without pay, another 200. in salary, for one minor violation. A personal friend of mine, a Lieutenant, got a notice of overdue parking tickets, two tickets, from when his son parked in a bus stop by his part time job. The LT. didn't know anything about the tickets and he paid them promptly upon notice. He also took a three day suspension for 1) getting the tickets, and 2) not paying the fines on time. Both cases are union arbitration now, but the cops still had to suffer the consequences before the appeal. With that in mind, I'd be very hard pressed to issue a citation to a brother officer.

There was also an opinion here that the cop who wrote me must have been mad at me, or something I said during the stop. I see you point, however, I was stopped for one mile over, where was my opportunity to make the contact head south on attiude blvd?

When I came on board here, I decided that I was not going to conceal who I am, or, continue my habit to hide among the masses. I've been open and available with my screen name, home page, and even my work location and telephone number. Funny, how some of you want to chide me in public here, but don't have the nuts to address me directly.

I'm here for the mutual enjoyment of the MM, nothing more. I don't care about wheel sizes for non MMs, air boxes on non MMs, and rest assured, I really don't care about push bumpers, attenna farms, or plain brown wrappers. Notice what I do reply to, and what I do not. Y'all play the way you wanna play here, that's fine with me. Just let us cops play too, and if you can't treat us as regular guys, move on, because I'm not.

I'm sorry this thread has turned sour, but neither Big Merc or myself, fired the first round, now, let's get back to the show, eh?

Got your back Big Merc.

Be safe, y'all.

PS...Ohio SP have a few of my baseball caps, boy those guys are sneaky...But, lots of fun to chat with.

[bchapman]

Now I feel bad about starting this thread. For the record, my first husband is a former Marine, Viet Nam vet, helicopter doorgunner, and then a Port Authority officer for 24 years, Times Square, steady midnights for 15 of them. His brother and most of our friends were all in law enforcement. I have a lot of respect for the work they do, and the orders they have to take from those in charge, whether they like it or not.

[tetsu]

Mac,

Actually, I postulated that either he got mad at you personally or he didn't like folks from IL. It could be either but depending on the county it may be more likely that he was doing something called "FISHing" in Wisconsin. :)

Johnny

[jpatricktaylor]

BigMerc and SrgntMac:

I believe that most of us here, as well as most people in general, respect and support LEO's. The problem that I have with your remarks here is that you as a LEO hold power over me as a civilian. We, the citizens, have given you that power along with the responsibility to wield it properly. If I break the rules, then I should expect and be ready to pay the price. BUT - I want the rules to be applied fairly and equitably to everyone. If a LEO gives a 'brother' in a personal vehicle a break on the road, should I simply roll over and take it when I'm getting a ticket for driving alongside at the same speed? The perception I'm left with is that of selective enforcement - which fuels the resentment that some folks might have towards LEO's.

[Macon Marauder]

Not an LEO, but I play one on TV...

Not really. I'm a Fed and I have 2 brothers in local law enforcement. So maybe I kinda straddle the fence here. I worry about my brothers every day and pray for their safety.

I got some "professional courtesy" once in Texas when the trooper saw my ID. I've been cited locally and given no courtesy - professional or otherwise - as well.

I used to rant and rave at the system when I got caught. My Daddy put it into perspective for me: "Were you speeding?" And I said, "That's not the point!" His reply: "That's EXACTLY the point. Were you speeding?" "Um, yes sir," I said. "Well," he said, "Just be a man about it, then."

They don't catch everyone, they don't catch most, sometimes they single a person or a car or a type of car out. Bottm line, though, is everytime I got caught: I WAS speeding.

On the other hand, I've never seen or heard of either of my brothers exhibiting the type of attitude BigMerc described. One of them has been in it for about 20 years. He tells me that each stop is evaluated case-by-case. A lot depends on the person's attitude: are they belligerent, respectful, angry, nervous, etc.

And he doesn't buy this "prefessional courtesy" stuff. He's just a guy doing a job.

[BigMerc]

If you read back there is no elitist prattle in those words just the truth.

There is an US vs. Them attitude, but is is not malevolent, it is a fraternal feeling that few amongst you can know.
The intent was not to upset you but to let you know while, you whine about a speeding ticket, there are other things going on.
LEO's entered the profession for the reasons that are apparent, we are the guardians of segments of society, we place ourselves at risk, so you may feel secure in your neighborhood, and your homes.

Because of that we are different than you, but we are there FOR YOU, so if you think there was something else going on there again you missed the intent and verify what most LEOs already know, you don't understand what we do.
As to favor, I am unashamedly confirming, you do not measure up in my eyes, the same as a man who has worked in this profession, therefore you do not rate the same treatment, thats just how it is,

As an outsider you will never fully comprehend what is being explained here. There was no animous intent in the first post, just a statement about you wanting the same respect, as a LEO in some instances. As I stated before, you didnt earn it, therefore are not entitled to it.

[MAD-3R]

Issues like this put me in a quandry.

On one side, cops do put their butt on the line everyday, and if pulled over should get a break.

On the other side, Privledge means "Private law," and law should be handed out fairly and uniformaly.

Has anyone ever worked at a bank? Ever bounced a check at that bank? Happened to my sister. The manager was notified, and had a short talk with her. Not the same level as cops getting caught breaking the law, but in the same vain.

I am not, nor have I ever been a Police Officer. But I respect them and the work they do. They are outsiders in almost any public gathering when off duty, because a cop is never "off" duty. IF they see a crime, they are required to do something. The amount of stress and tension this can and does cause can be devistating both physicaly and emotionaly. There job is to enforce the laws of the land. THis puts them at odds with those breaking the laws. Even if it is as simple as spiting on a side walk, or 1 mph over the limit. Is it "Them VS Us?" Well, if your breaking the law, then yes.

Another thing to remember. When a cop aproches a car, he has no idea what is waiting for him. The "relef" of finding another cop in the drivers seat is something only other combat vets can know.

I hope this helps. I try to understand.

[Billatpro]

Sadly, the only thing this thread has accomplished for me is a loss of respect. :(

I'll keep my whining to cars.

[jerrym3]

It's hard for me to accept what's being said on this thread, and I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, there's a little "put on" being done by the two officers.

We didn't earn your respect? And yet, you'll put your life on the line for us? Is that a definite "maybe"?

Where does professional courtesy end? 10 miles over the speed limit? forgery? drugs? robbery? assault? murder?

I was in the military during the Cuban Missile crisis, and ready to do my part if required. Do I get your respect? How about the Viet Nam, Gulf War, Afgan vets? Do they get your respect? How about a mother raising three kids without a husband? Any respect there yet?

There's an attitude here, and it was evident from you, SergMac, when you responded to my thread on the Marauder/vinyl top issue, and I quote, "I don't believe you" or, in other words, you are full of ****. or, at the least, calling me a liar. Another quote, "get a picture". Whatever happened to politeness or please?

Not knowing what you guys go through each day, maybe that's what's turning you off on the rest of society, but damn, we don't deserve your respect?

Anybody caught speeding one mile over the limit, LO or civilian, in a school zone, nab him/her. Going 66 on a 65 mph interstate? Maybe, maybe not.

As a kid, I've had police stop me during dragraces and let me go with a warning, and I've been given a ticket for doing 60 along a deserted highway restricted to 50. I lived in a small town where the chief of police would call on favors or use his personal car to transport us kids to Little League games. I never had so much respect for someone who was not a blood relative.

What a world this would be if we all just respected those that we consider "brothers", be it occupation, race, or religion.

However, when you read someone's writing, it's difficult to put their emotions behind the words; we tend to overlay our emotions, instead.

I honestly hope that I've read you guys wrong.

[SergntMac]

"However, when you read someone's writing, it's difficult to put their emotions behind the words; we tend to overlay our emotions, instead. I honestly hope that I've read you guys wrong."

You may have, Jerry, I can't say. The words posted here don't change, every one gets the same chance to read the same words. How you hear the voice in the text, is up to you. Perhaps a fresh read of this thread from top to bottom is in order before you decide, again, how you feel.

"There's an attitude here, and it was evident from you, SergMac, when you responded to my thread on the Marauder/vinyl top issue, and I quote, "I don't believe you" or, in other words, you are full of ****. or, at the least, calling me a liar. Another quote, "get a picture". Whatever happened to politeness or please? "

What we may have exchanged in other threads, Jerry, should not apply here. However, my words mean exactly what they say. You add the liar tag, and the obscenities, not me. And why me, Jerry? Half a dozen more also questioned the reality of it all, and asked for a pic.

You have a stereotype of me already fixed in your head, one that stems from ONE statement in ONE other thread.

Well, at least something fits here, I was ONE mile over the limit, and I took my ONE ticket, without complaint.

[LincMercLover]

Wow... haven't been to this thread in awhile! Geez... Here's my outlook on a couple of things.


There is an old police saying about the public which goes like this"We don't like you, we don't trust you, never have ,never will". While I believe that is a bit extreme it illustrates the differences between police and civilians.

-I too believe this is WAY too extreme! Who is it again you're out to serve and protect? If you don't like us, then why are you in this profession? I take it you don't live by that saying, but if that is the case, it shouldn't have been posted, just for the fact of it's irrelivance.


Right now at my agency there are 3 officers that are off the job, because of injury while performing their duty, thats 3 separate incidents of injury while arresting suspects. One officer is not expected to return due to extensive damage to ligaments in his foot and lower leg, hes 28 years of age! and at the very least, will have a limp and experience pain for a very long time.

-Well, **** happens... With the same token, you know how many people are injured everyday building our cars? I've heard of people DIEING while working at my father's plant. I believe 2 in the past year? Those who sit at a desk and type all day, they may suffer corpal tunnel later in life. People GET HURT, no matter the occupation, and many of these injuries are life long.


And one last thing, if you drove for 20+ years and how many times during those years did you speed and got nothing? how many general traffic laws did you break and got away with it? You received 2 tickets in those years for a couple of hundred bucks, average that out..... come out to maybe a penny an infraction, you are SO ahead of the game...BE HAPPY!!

-This I totally agree with you on!

I don't think you desevered ANY of the remarks made to you BigMerc, they were rude and uncalled for. Come on guys, we have more dignity than this! If this is how we're going to act, we might as well be on any other forum... I thought our dignity and respect for one another was what set us apart?


Did it ever occur to any of you that cops are held to a higher standard inside the Department they work for? If my boss got wind of me getting a ticket, there would be an internal disciplinary investigation of the matter, and most likely I would be suspended from duty. How many of you face suspension and a loss of a days wages for a traffic violation?

-Here at school, we get suspended for a traffic violation. At my fathers work, a traffic violation is reported and reviewed by someone. So yes... there are other places that will penalize you for a traffic violation, cops aren't the ONLY ones.

Well, this is all time allows me to write on this thread, as I have to go. I'll probably be scolded now, but ehh... what the hell.

Logan, we may be in need of a closure here soon... I think we've ventured off topic yet again...

[MAD-3R]

The town of Herndon was very netorious for speeding tickets. Would pop you if you were more then 3 over. Nailed one poor SOB 3 times with the same trap in the same day! Pizza delivery... :)

I got nailed for 57 in a 35. In VA, anything 20 over is automaticly Reckless Driving, but the officer wrote it for speeding. I've talked with people on both sides of the badge, and the common conclution is that for speeding charges, you can prepay, but for reckless you must appear in court, and for reckless the money would go to the state and county, while speeding goes to the town. So they were cutting me a break, and keeping the money local.

[SergntMac]

"Logan, we may be in need of a closure here soon... I think we've ventured off topic yet again."

Not replying to scold you LML, but is it fair of you to post your remarks, and then call for an end to the discussion? No one here, yet, has been out of hand nor much off the topic of "speed traps," hopefully it will come to rest on it's own in a short while. However, the underlying message of the posts speak of unfairness at large, and for you to call Logan to wrap it up before anyone can respond to you, or others likewise posted, is just another pastel of that unfairness, and unfair to us all. Let it run, my friend, let's see where it goes?

"Here at school, we get suspended for a traffic violation. At my fathers work, a traffic violation is reported and reviewed by someone. So yes... there are other places that will penalize you for a traffic violation, cops aren't the ONLY ones."

This seems to drift a bit on the facts I presented here. If your school disciplines you for traffic violations in and around the school zone, that could be appropriate and productive, but you suffer no financial harm, yes? With respect to your father's company policy, there are hundreds of precedents set in civil court that extend liability to the employer, when the employee is traveling on business or driving a company vehicle, and I agree with this policy. Neither you or your father, or those in likewise settings, should endure such policies when they are not so related to the business at hand. Seems you misunderstand my example of how two parking tickets came to be 3 days suspension and loss of pay, when the officer punished didn't commit the offense, he just owned the car. Feel that underlying sense of unfairness now? I do, just try getting away with this in a school or within the private employment sector, you would scream bloody murder, and rightfully so, yes?

As for this thread, I say let it run, better off to let it die for lack of interest, than the chilling effect of censorship. Yes, there are a lot of emotions on the deck, but none that can't be wrangled by continued discussion.

BChapman, nothing here is your fault, it all started out just fine. It turned bad, when someone here suggested someone else should be fired from their LE job, for having an opinion. That's quite chilling too.

[WolfeBros]

I watched this from afar and was quite hesitant to jump in but I do have a somewhat different perspective than the two sides I have seen here.
I have over 30 yrs in the fire service first as a volunteer and then as a career firefighter. I have worked with and been close to cops, firefighters and of course civilians my entire working life. I can see where the trust issue of "us versus them" comes to play. Complancency gets you killed in either one of these professions. The Cops have to see you as a bad guy until they know otherwise. Its what keeps them alive.
A routine traffic stop and domestic violence calls come to mind as being the most dangerous. They don't know when they pull you over for speeding if your a bad guy thats gonna shoot them thru the door or not.
The distrust is ingrained in them from the beginning.....it has to be. If they want to go home again they have to assume the worst.

Being a cop or firefigher you see the worst elements of society everyday of your life. At work and at play. The bad really sticks out......the rest just sort of blends in. Its the bad that stays with you.
Its the bad that can kill you. Its the bad you have to recognize before it recognizes you.

Now with that said, its easy to see how the fraternity or brotherhood of being a cop, or firefighter, or soldier or any other high risk profession develops. Now this is where we differ.....or the point that I don't see.
As a firefighter I knew everyday I went to work that I could be killed.
However I knew it going in, I accepted it because I loved the job so much. When a firefighter goes in a situation where human life is at stake it doesn't matter if your a s***bag or a rhodes scholar you are going to get our best effort and if.....just if something bad happens and I get killed doing the job I love as a profession. There will be no firefighters looking down upon the civilians in a "us VS them" sceneiro.

I am out of the service now because of a heart problem which I probably developed while serving. I would give anything to be back in a position serving the public again in that profession. Its not their fault that we die in this job. Its a fact of life.....we don't like it much but we have to accept it when it happens. I respect my brother firefighters because we do share life/death situations, I respect the LEO's because I see what you go thru as well, but I don't hold anything against the civilian population just because they don't really know what we go thru in our jobs.

For what it is worth I served in a Command position as well Sarge and I know that the world was a better place, even if just for one day because that we did. We're already brothers because of this board. It is our connection in life, but if any one of you LEO's catch this boy speeding......even if by just 1 MPH.....I will take my medicine. I knew I was doing it when you caught me and I knew it was wrong. I hope none of you boys ever needs my expertise but if you do I will be there just as much for any of you. And remember guys......nobody really knows what the other guy goes through until you have walked in his/her shoes. Try to be open minded and see both sides. The police officer that just pulled you over has to decide in about 10 seconds if your gonna try to kill him when you reach for that registration in the glovebox. There has to automatically be a sigh of relief when he sees that your a brother LEO from out of state. Thats my peace.....now what about these cars of ours ?

[SergntMac]

Well said, Wolfe, thanks.

As we can all see by now, it's not a yes and no topic, not black and white. As I said before, I thought it very brave of Big Merc to open up here and share something with us he calls his truth. That's ballsy, and rather than accept it for what it is, he's lunch. I was very disappointed to hear the remarks and suggestions of penalty for his honesty, and from whom as well. I was suprised at how quickly, and deeply, the emotions turned against one who was just being honest.

I never wanted this thread to go sour, and I thought that by expressing my experience, someone would learn something, and maybe, not get tangled up by the suprise of it all. The 1 MPH ticket was my truthful experience. I didn't get a break and I didn't raise a stink. By what I've read here, I would expect one or two of you, would have punched the cop, and we know where that goes.

Thanks again, Wolfe, back to the show, eh?

[RF Overlord]

Amen, WolfeBros...

[jefferson-mo]

What about our cars.......................... .....welllllll

mine hauls A**:beer: and is more fun than a barrel of monkeys:lol:


oops dated myself again


:burnout:

[MAD-3R]

I think what set people off was that the way BigMerc stated things was read as "If your not a cop, your so much dirt." Wether it was ment to be that or not. he would have to say. I took it as "If your not a cop, prove to me you are worth being called friend."

[WolfeBros]

This board is a pretty good cross section of society in general, and just like in real life we have pretty varying positions. BigMerc came across pretty strongly with his opinion but his life experiences in uniform shaped it. It is tough to share those experience with others and no.....outsiders really don't know what it is like. But heck.....we don't know what its like to crack a mans chest and sew in a new heart or approve the house loan down the street at the bank. What we do need to do in this society of ours is not to be so damn quick to jump in each others face over differing views. We will always have them.

IE...do you want your Marauder in Black, Silver, Red or Blue ??
Or what oil do you prefer??
Look out boys they are coming out swingin.....:rolleyes:

[Mark McQuaide]

As a former Army NCO, I can understand BigMerc's "us and them" mindset. Now an Army NCO isn't a the same as a cop, but there are some similarities --

You're separated from a society that you're charged with protecting
You're held to a higher standard of behavior

But this board is here to celebrate a new muscle car and create comraderie around it. If a cop, an intimidating figure to start with, comes out and basically disses all of us, he should expect some blowback.

[bozobill]

BigMerc and SergntMac :

How would you feel if your son or daughter were killed by a sober, joyriding, speeding LEO? Not a civilian, but a member of the "brotherhood". Bad enough, right? But what if the reason he was speeding is because he knew that if stopped he would get his usual "get-out-of-jail" card since the free pass for an LEO is almost automatic. Now that's a painful thought.

On the other hand if he knew that he would be ticketed if stopped and that the consequences of a speeding ticket went far beyond the ticket cost, and actually included additional and severe penalties imposed by his own police department, your son or daughter might still be alive. But sadly he had no such restriction and exercised what he thought was his "brotherhood" right to avoid the consequences of breaking the law.

Noone appreciates more than I do what you and other LEO's mean to maintaining the peace and protecting us from criminal elements. Lawlessness would rule the land without your efforts. But history is also replete with examples of the horrors produced by selective enforcement of the law.

[SergntMac]

Nawh...I don't do "what if" stuff, sorry.

[RCSignals]

I don't think anyone should be stopped and ticketed for driving 1 mph over the seed limit. As I read SergtMac, I don't think he does either, but his point is he was, and didn't make a fuss.
I come from a family of Policemen, even though I was not one. I understand the "us against them" as a general statement.
the "We don't like you, we don't trust you, never have ,never will". While I believe that is a bit extreme it illustrates the differences between police and civilians. illustrates a sentiment that exists, even if Big Merc as he said thinks it is extreme. The fact is that statement is extreme.
That statement is even worse when it is taken literally and used by some rigidly. There was a time that Police were taught that there job was as much to prove someones innocence through evidence as it was to prove their guilt. Sometimes today that Tennant seems to be forgotten.

Anyway, I stand by my speedometer accuracy statement, and by the motto of the Canadian Provost Corps, which is as valid for Military Police as it is for Civilian Police. (also which holds Police to a higher level and stardard, and therefore the difference with the rest of the community)

[Beadhead]

RC: the plant is actually located at the hamlet with the picturesque name of "Talbotville Royalle" a.k.a. "Talbotville" for short, which is half way between the cities of St. Thomas and London. This is one of the oldest settled areas of S. Ontario, comprising part of the original Talbot Settlement, organized by Colonel Thomas Talbot. FYI :)

P.S. Never heard of a new PI for sale around here. Maybe diff. rules for Ford Canada vs. U.S. dealers?

[RF Overlord]

Beadhead:

Then why is it called the STAP (St. Thomas Assembly Plant)?

Not trying to be sarcastic...I'm planning on visiting in June...

[RCSignals]

I guess calling the plant "Talbotville" rather than ST Thomas is a local thing. I wonder why ford calls it St Thomas Assembly Plant?

Some US dealers pre order Police vehicles in anticipation of Police or other agency buys I guess. Maybe dealers in Canada only order when a Police agency orders. Many US dealers only order that way too.

[Beadhead]

RF: don't know. It used to be called the Talbotville Plant, not sure when it started to be called the St. Thomas plant. Geographically, it's probably closer to London now than it is to St. Thomas, since Londeon extended its city boundaries a few years ago.

[RCSignals]

for example, here is 2003 Police Interceptor for sale on autotrader

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=120428702&dealer_id=75227&make=FORD&distance=any&max_price=&model=CROWNVIC&end_year=2003&advcd_on=n&min_price=&address=07080&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=2003&color=&car_year=2003

[RCSignals]

another one. this one is white though.

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/newcar_search/newcar_detail.jtmpl?car_id=118 031700&dealer_id=70259&make=FORD&distance=any&model_year=2003&model=CROWNVIC&first_record=226&address=07080&search_type=new&=&car_year=2003&ac_afflt=none

[modular46]

"As far as we know, with the possible exception of Ohio, speeding does not carry the death penalty".
Brock Yates, in Cannonball Run.

:help: :alone:

[Beadhead]

Another good one from Mr. Yates.

[Billatpro]

One very real shortcoming of this medium we call internet is so much is lost in the translation. For the record, I don't expect to get a free pass for speeding and I have never whined about results (unless I lost the race) I don't think I came out rude or judgmental, I was however shocked and insulted at the rather raw statements made by Big Merc. I to have a long family histroy of service and I never heard that mindset put quit that way from any of them.

Much of what I say here is a little cheeky and ment to be fun and I'm sure some of it does not come across that way. I like this place and the people in it, LEO and civilian alike.

I've pretty much had my say on this one so this will be the last word. I still hold a chest full of gratitude and...begrudgingly.. a great deal of respect for Cops, Firemen, EMT"s and all service us unworthy civilians.

[JamesHecker]

As for this thread, I say let it run, better off to let it die for lack of interest, than the chilling effect of censorship. Yes, there are a lot of emotions on the deck, but none that can't be wrangled by continued discussion.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I do love this board. It is great to be able to discuss a highly charged issue with such strong opinions on both sides without the thread disintegrating to a name calling flamefest as I have seen so often happen on other boards.

The comments, though quite polarized are articulate and generally civil.

This is really a great group of people here and I am happy to be associated with all of you through this common bond of love for our autos.

I have a great deal of respect for all of you, even, and in fact especially BigMerc, with whom I so strongly disagree. I say especially because after the strong reactions to his post he shows the fortitude to stand by his position.

I for one enjoy a good debate, and as Sarge said, it is difficult to see just the Black and the White of it.

[Billatpro]

Well said James and put me down for some of the same.

[chapel1]

Whew!!!! It took me a half hour to get here.Anybody seen that Mercury Marauder site where people talk about thier cars?

[bozobill]

"Nawh...I don't do "what if" stuff, sorry."

Now who's being dismissive, S. Mac? What makes a "what if" so unimportant to you? I'd guess because it clearly undermines your argument. I advanced a reasonable scenario against selective enforcement and your response is to dismiss it because you don't do "what if stuff"? You need a reality check my man.

[LincMercLover]

Not replying to scold you LML, but is it fair of you to post your remarks, and then call for an end to the discussion? No one here, yet, has been out of hand nor much off the topic of "speed traps," hopefully it will come to rest on it's own in a short while. However, the underlying message of the posts speak of unfairness at large, and for you to call Logan to wrap it up before anyone can respond to you, or others likewise posted, is just another pastel of that unfairness, and unfair to us all. Let it run, my friend, let's see where it goes?

-I'm not trying to run to Logan for closure following my thread; however, I do try to think like a moderator when posting in respect to what I say. The posts I read BEFORE BigMerc's commentary was in all honesty a good debate. AFTER that began what I saw as a slug fest of words, meaningless words at that. If this were to be the case, why not start a thread called "Flame me." or "Pick a fight."? Only reason I call attention to Logan is to see if he does happen to have a little input on where we're going with our thread. I don't want closure after ANY of my posts. Not only does it make it appear that I caused the closure, but I don't get to read other opinions on my view. Once again, a mis-interpretation...


This seems to drift a bit on the facts I presented here. If your school disciplines you for traffic violations in and around the school zone, that could be appropriate and productive, but you suffer no financial harm, yes? With respect to your father's company policy, there are hundreds of precedents set in civil court that extend liability to the employer, when the employee is traveling on business or driving a company vehicle, and I agree with this policy. Neither you or your father, or those in likewise settings, should endure such policies when they are not so related to the business at hand. Seems you misunderstand my example of how two parking tickets came to be 3 days suspension and loss of pay, when the officer punished didn't commit the offense, he just owned the car. Feel that underlying sense of unfairness now? I do, just try getting away with this in a school or within the private employment sector, you would scream bloody murder, and rightfully so, yes?

-Not around the school zone, anywhere... We can go all the way into St. Louis City (We're out in St. Peters, no one probably knows where that is so...) even during the weekend and if the cop asks what school we go to, he can report us. This applies to while school is in session, not summer vacation. Regarding the tickets, I must appologize as I forgot the second part of your paragraph when writing my response. Those are BS charges, BUT, the officer who was cited for not having a sticker on his car should have been aware to not park in the lot for even a second without proper identification. And the LT who's son got parking tickets with his (the LT's) car I'm guessing? In that case, I wouldn't have gave the kid a state IDed car for one... But then again, I could be reading this wrong...

I see this tread as being a "Speed Trap, where are your's and what have been your expirences?" type thread, not a "Us vs. Them" thread or a "How fair have cops been to you?" thread. This is how I see the topic venturing off...

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by bozobill
"Nawh...I don't do "what if" stuff, sorry."

Now who's being dismissive, S. Mac? What makes a "what if" so unimportant to you? I'd guess because it clearly undermines your argument. I advanced a reasonable scenario against selective enforcement and your response is to dismiss it because you don't do "what if stuff"? You need a reality check my man.

I'm sorry you feel this way Boz, but it's the truth. I don't do "what if," discussions. I work with facts, and if I don't have facts to support my theory, I keep digging until I get them, or abandon my theory. It's the nature of my work, and it's the way I am.

If what you read here causes you to believe that I am dismissing you, and I need a reality check, you are welcome to your opinion. All I am saying is that I don't do "what-if," with the same conviction that I could say "I don't dance." Sorry you're disappointed, Boz, that was never my intent.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by bozobill
BigMerc and SergntMac :

How would you feel if your son or daughter were killed by a sober, joyriding, speeding LEO? Not a civilian, but a member of the "brotherhood". Bad enough, right? But what if the reason he was speeding is because he knew that if stopped he would get his usual "get-out-of-jail" card since the free pass for an LEO is almost automatic. Now that's a painful thought.

On the other hand if he knew that he would be ticketed if stopped and that the consequences of a speeding ticket went far beyond the ticket cost, and actually included additional and severe penalties imposed by his own police department, your son or daughter might still be alive. But sadly he had no such restriction and exercised what he thought was his "brotherhood" right to avoid the consequences of breaking the law.

Noone appreciates more than I do what you and other LEO's mean to maintaining the peace and protecting us from criminal elements. Lawlessness would rule the land without your efforts. But history is also replete with examples of the horrors produced by selective enforcement of the law.

Boz, after chatting with Chapel1 on the phone, I went back and read your post one more time, to see if there was anything I missed. There is not, I got it all in the first read. Setting aside the fact that I don't what if stuff, for the moment, I have to say that I wouldn't have much to say anyway. You wrap it up in your closing sentence, and I cannot disagree with your statement.

Please remember that I'm the guy who didn't get a pass. I was speeding, the cop did his job, and I paid my fine, no b**ch. Those are the facts, and if in the next mile down the road, I did kill someone in a collision, hats would hang on the fact that my speeding was detected by law enforcement, and the appropriate action taken at that time.

My point is, no matter what decisions are made at the moment, the next moment hasn't arrived yet, and there is no predicting what comes next. Life is lived moment to moment, that the way it is.

See, I told you wasn't good at this...

[bozobill]

S. MAC:

NOONE RESPECTS YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS BOARD MORE THAN I DO. YOU'RE INSIGHTFUL, FUNNY, SMART AND SPEAK FROM VALUABLE EXPERIENCE THAT ALL OF US CAN PROFIT FROM. IF LML EVER WANTS TO BAIL ON THE CO-MODERATOR JOB, YOU WOULD BE THE OBVIOUS CHOICE FOR ME. I DON'T POST OFTEN BUT I DO WHEN I THINK I HAVE SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO SHARE. I'M WAY BEHIND SCHEDULE TODAY BUT WILL CONTACT YOU NEXT WEEK TO EXCHANGE SOME MORE IDEAS ON "SPEED TRAPS". HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND!

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by bozobill
S. MAC:

NOONE RESPECTS YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS BOARD MORE THAN I DO. YOU'RE INSIGHTFUL, FUNNY, SMART AND SPEAK FROM VALUABLE EXPERIENCE THAT ALL OF US CAN PROFIT FROM. IF LML EVER WANTS TO BAIL ON THE CO-MODERATOR JOB, YOU WOULD BE THE OBVIOUS CHOICE FOR ME. I DON'T POST OFTEN BUT I DO WHEN I THINK I HAVE SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO SHARE. I'M WAY BEHIND SCHEDULE TODAY BUT WILL CONTACT YOU NEXT WEEK TO EXCHANGE SOME MORE IDEAS ON "SPEED TRAPS". HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND!

You too, Boz, enjoy the weekend. I'm in my office on weekends, 312.745.5207 if you have time.

[RCSignals]

I am happy that SergntMac, Big Merc, and others in law enforcement are here and want to be here. They like the rest of us are here because of cars, and all too often those in Police service exclude themselves from participating, at least while letting their occupations be known.
During the spring and summer we have a local "cruise-in" every Saturday, sponsored by a restaurant, and put on by an individual citizen. Often the local city Police will arrive, and sit in their car, segregating themselves. in a far distant corner, never walking about, never greeting the public. I think it's it's shame. Once in awhile County Deputies will arrive, but will walk about, talk to people, look at cars. Their action in that limited participation goes well for Public perception of Police, and helps break down that "us against them" attitude that many civilians have.
I see SergntMac, et al participation here in the same light, and it proves that despite perceptions of their job and position in society, they too are regular guys sharing common interests.

[LincMercLover]

Well said RC. I second that!

[Beadhead]

Agreed. The more LE officers set themselves apart from the public they are there to serve, the less that public sees that LE is every citizens duty.

[Billatpro]

" I've pretty much had my say on this one so this will be the last word. I still hold a chest full of gratitude and...begrudgingly.. a great deal of respect for Cops, Firemen, EMT"s and all service us unworthy civilians."

Not that anyone will really care much but the last sentence here is really not what I wanted to say, what I meant here by begrudgingly, is surrending some opinions from my earlier post and the "Respect" is genuine and heart felt. us unworthy civilians should have been preceeded by "seemingly" and meant to poke fun at myself.

[RF Overlord]

Bill:

I think we all understood what you thought you meant to say... :D

Most, if not all, of us do in fact have respect for police, firefighters, etc...it's good that we CAN have the luxury of these discussions and still remain friends...try that in some other countries...like the one piglet is hopefully NOT on his way to, now...and if he IS...

piglet:

May the road rise to meet you
May the wind be always at your back
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
The rains fall soft upon your fields
And until we meet again
May God hold you in the hollow of His hand.

[Billatpro]

And thank god for that kind of guts.

[Bigdogjim]

Speed traps! Hey this is up my alley. Point of reference I drove a tour bus for 20+ years about 2,000,000 miles. Did border to border and coast to cost trips/tours.Ran out the Phila. S.Jersey area. Think of the motor coach as a 40 foot rolling bill board! Hard to blend in? Impossible is more like it. As far as tickets go understand most companys will and do take a very dim view of tickets. What hurts the most was get a ticket in the bus and watch your personal car insruance go up. Talk about loosing a day pay. Ouch. That hurts for up to 3 years!!! I miss the road alot but happy with my choice. Drive now and then. I got my MM so I could cruise this GREAT Land Of OURS and meet other MM people. Plan to take some trips when I hear of "get together" Would have like to pop in at the Chicago get together but SNOW put a damper on that. Hell one member offered to let me "crash" at his place! TALK about GREAT people! Anyway after a while you get a sixth sense about where the ambush is. Never meet a Law man I did not like even when I had to sign for it. 20 years where did they go? When we meet coffee and donuts on me! :lol: :lol:
Big Dog :rock:

Ps:Got to pin that needle hear my motor screaming as I'm tearing up the street! Rev over red line!

[SergntMac]

Some would suggest that "the end justifies the means" and perhaps here, these words were never more fitting. This is a long and emotional thread, and a lot of good has grown from it. I've learned more about myself, and my friends here, including the fact that I have friends here.

So, we slapped each other around a bit, but we learned how to do that in a valuable and constructive way. I believe all hurt is forgiven, and I believe that the next time something like this evolves from a seemingly harmless post, maybe even a joke, we'll know how to walk through it, rather than walk away.

I've made new friends here and I hope I've become a friend too. Y'all be safe, and if you ever need anything from me, yell out. I got yer back.

I think it's time to lock it down, if y'all agree. No sense starting over with a WTF from fresh meat...Logan, LML, you agree?

[LincMercLover]

Ehh... I think all is well. If someone happens to post something like that, I'll get rid of the post and THEN lock it down. There's still some who may want to add to the resolve of this thread, so I'll keep it open.

[Billatpro]

I almost feel "responsible" for a lot of this, almost wish I had never replied to Mac's first post. I really had no problem with the whole thing, just spoke out with out thinking! I do understand the brotherhood thing because I have been personally exposed to it in my own family. On a more relivent issue, does anyone else think something is missing in our MM's stealth image, as I do?

[RF Overlord]

What's missing in the "stealth" image is the big honkin' chrome wheels...totally out of place on a big blacked-out car...

[engine23ccvfd]

Only time I showed prejudice when writing tickets was those hot little hunnies that open there shirts up for you to take a peek any idea how many times they get out of tickets like that....Also if you where speeding on the way to Church and it wasnt a Baptist church i would write em up!!!