Alternator and SC

[BRSMERC]

I have one of the kits installed and I'm very discouraged. I just lost my 3rd alternator - one with a load bearing failure - two more with the rotor windings coming apart. It appears the only way I can drive it is under 3000 rpm - a waste of a SC? Any ideas - up to $ 1000.00 and counting - no warrantee with backwards alternator and no overrunning clutch! Didn't even try! It looks good in the garage though?

Brian

[BRSMERC]

Sorry Dennis - I have the Trilogy kit and was kind of upset over the third alternator. I really don't know what is happening. The last two that failed have had new rotors - wondering if the Marauder has a high speed version and I'm getting low speed ones. Both failed at high RPM. The alternator has the original stator. I am under the understanding that with the rotor running backwards and considering the fan geometry, the air flow is 60% of standard. The overrunning clutched pulley was removed and replaced with a fixed one with the reversal of the alternator. I may be just having extremely bad luck as others do not seem to have the problem. I have a new alternator coming from the US (I live in Canada). Another option might be a Honda generator on the trunk - cheaper!

Brian

[FiveO]

Who installed the Trilogy?

[MI2QWK4U]

Have you contacted Jerry yet? with 50+ trilogy cars out there, not one that im aware of has had one fail. Mine is the second trilogy car ever done, and has been running fine from the start. There must be another reason for the failures.

[FiveO]

My thoughts exactly.....

[BRSMERC]

Yes all of the above. The kit was a self install and is awesome. I did search for alternator problems in all of the forums and in general there have been very few alternator problems. Once my problems became chronic, I decided to share them and their solutions. A request for other's experiences was my first thought. The all new alternator may be the solution. I'll tear down the failed alternator personally and post my observations. For now I'll await the arrival of the new alternator. I had ordered it about 10 days ago and it should be here soon. I had a nagging feeling about the repaired ones and placed the order based upon that feeling. The last rotor lasted one day - today!

Brian

[Dennis Reinhart]

Jerry is a very smart Man, I do not feel this is an issue with the SC first of all witch Alt pulley do you have is it the standard or the clutch this may help in determining the failure and I know Jerry will help, you can remove the clutch type pulley but it does require a special tool I bought this, just contact Jerry he will help in this matter, the first thing that comes to mind is the belt tention mat be a problem

[BRSMERC]

I have the tool - thanks to Trilogy. The fixed pulley is in use. I have asked for Jerry's help.

Brian

[BillyGman]

welcome to the club friend. I also performed the Trilogy installation myself, and I too had an alternator fail on me. It's a long story, but the bottom line is, do NOT take a Ford alternator to anyone to rebiuld, and do NOT try and rebuild it yourself!! It will NOT work. "Carfixer" alerted me to this, and quite frankly I was very skeptical of what he said. But when I looked in the 2003 Ford shop manual, it specifically states in there that the alternator cannnot be rebuilt, and that even the voltage regulator cannot be replaced. It clearly states that "The alternator and regulator MUST be replaced together as an assembly"....so after having the alternator rebuilt by an automotive electrical place that specializes in that kind of work, and having it fail on me a second time, I broke down and spent the $$ at he Mercury dealer parts department, and bought a brand new one, and I then installed it, and I've not had any problems since. that was back in may of this year, and I've raced the car, and drive it every single day to work, and the alternator is fine.


BTW, I hope you've bought a legitimate brand new alternator from a mercury or ford dealer, and it isn't one that's been rebuilt. if it is, stop right here, and get your money back, and order a legitimate NEW one. And while you're going to be changing out the alternator once again, I strongly recommend that you click on this link which is to a post that I've written about the belts used for this application..... you'll be saving yourself some hassle down the road if you take this advice. I've been there EXACTLY where you're at right now my friend.... once you get this squared away, you'll simply love the Trilogy Supercharger, and what it does for your car!!!!

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12840

[Logan]

Yep, I had an alternator failure too. I just bought a Ford Motorsport replacement for a couple hundred bucks and have been fine ever since...

[BRSMERC]

Thanks Billy:

I think this was just what I was looking for. The first alternator failed in Butte and my best option was a new rotor to get me on my way. The original alternator's failure was the inner race of the load bearing spinning on the rotor shaft. This I believe was a simple factory defect and all of my subsequent problems started from here. The next two failures happened at 5000+ RPM's and seemed to be rotor related. For sure the first one of these was open circuited - I did not see the rotor.
The new (I hope) alternator is coming. I am a little worried about their last statement:

Supplier Comments: 09/18/04 6:55 PM - The part number had changed from a # 3W1Z10346AARM to a # 3W1Z10346AA. There is also a $75.00 core deposit that is refundable upon return. Please approve the back order to approve the price change and the core deposit.

Genuine Ford Parts and Accessories
2525 Texoma Parkway
Sherman, Texas 75090
866-941-FORD
800-549-2005
800.259.3560

The Website advertises new parts - we will see? After what you have been through, I'll head for my Ford dealer and order another one. Is the part number above the number that you purchased?

I looked in my service manual and saw the "only replace with a new alternator" - I had discounted it as the usual disclaimer but they appear to mean it!

I have heard the little chirp that you mentioned in your other thread. I can hear it on acceleration and I think sometimes when the air-conditioning compressor cuts in. I have never been able to isolate the sound. I'll try the belts!

I will restate - I am totally happy with the kit. I believe the first failure was a Ford defect and then incompatible alternator parts until now.

Thank you. I will keep everyone in the loop.

Brian

[BRSMERC]

Just another note while we are beating this problem to death!
The alternator seems to run very hot - for sure greater than 100 Decrees C, as it will boil water from its surface. I noticed that it gets its cooling air after the air passes through the radiator. This combined with 60% of the original cooling due to the reversed installation may produce a hotter alternator. My thought was to install a small duct to bypass the radiator and feed the alternator cooling air? The Canadian model may be forced to run even hotter because of the daylight running module which I believe keeps the headlights on high-beam at part power during daylight hours.

Brian

[BillyGman]

I've never heard of a new part having a core charge attached to w/it. As far as I know, it's only rebuilt parts that have core charges, so I'd cancel that order and go to your local mercury dealer parts department if I were you. You don't want to go through this problem all over again, do you?

The alternator doesn't overheat because it's installed backwards w/the Trilogy set-up. It rins hotter because it's mounted on a bracket that is in direct contact w/the cylinder head, and the heat from the heads get's transfered through the mounting bracket to the alternator. If you go for a long drive, and then shut the car down, you'll notice that the alternator stays very hot for a good 90 minutes while the other engine parts all cool down much sonner w/the one exception of the cylinder heads. But I don't believe this causes any alternator problem since I haven't had one since I bought and installed the NEW one. But I do suspect that the extra heat it can beat up the serpentine belt since that belt does operate the alternator. That's why I've went w/the Gatorback belts which I've described in that other thread which I've provided a link to in my previous post. the Gatorback belts are made of different materials, and are tougher, while at the same time they have a different design at the puilley contact point, so they grip better, and do NOT slip.

[BRSMERC]

The horror story continues! The alternator from Texas arrived today. I'm sure it is a new one. It is dated 07 18 04 and the additional part number is GL-526. The local Ford dealer ordered one for me using my VIN and came up with the same part number. It also requires a core charge and when queried, the parts man said the information indicated a new part. Sounds good so far right - well someone must have dropped it at the factory because the pulley was smashed. It was well packed (double boxed) and factory sealed with no shipping damage.
Interesting note - it came with a fixed pulley? I would have thought one with the overrunning clutch would be correct for the Marauder replacement.
Just change the pulley with the originally supplied Trilogy pulley; right? Guess what - there is ridge around the input shaft on the stator housing casting on the new alternator which interferes with the Trilogy supplied pulley. The damaged pulley was recessed which allowed for the ridge. The original alternator has had this ridge machined flat.
The fifth alternator will be in tomorrow at 3:00 PM and we will see what fate deals me there. I guess I should have bought the Honda generator and battery charger for the trunk?

Brian

[Logan]

Yes, all the replacement Motorcraft alternators for marauder have the non-clutched pulley. The clutched pulley alternators from Germany were discontinued...

[BillyGman]

Logan is correct on that, and BTW, all is I know, is that when I bought the new alternator from the mercury dealer's parts department, there wasn't any core charge w/it.

[Jerry Barnes]

BRSMerc,

I had a alternator fail on Trilogy #2 before we did the install of the S/C. It was under warranty and I have not had a problem since. I can't believe you are having all of these problems with the alternator. Sounds very strang to me. If the alternator is failing, it is the Ford alternator, not the configuration from the Trilogy kit. Both of our cars having been doing fine since we replaced the alternator on Trilogy #2.

Please do not try to make a Ford part, our problem. No one else is having the kinds of problems you are having. And I have never heard of a replacement core for an alternator!?

I will have one of our engineers research your issue, but I would like to see digital pictures of your installation. I will also pay to have your current failed alternator evaluated by our testing process. Let me now where to pick it up and I will pay for the shipping.

Call me directly at (313)336-6135.

Sincerely,

Jerry

[BRSMERC]

Hi Jerry:

I realize the problem is 100% that of the alternator. Trilogy, its service, and kit are beyond reproach. I have been recommending your product continuously and will continue to do so.
I have a Ford alternator problem and have gotten some good suggestions here. I'm in the solution phase and I'll share as I get the information.
I thank you for your offers and I will send you all the information I can get.

Brian

[BillyGman]

BRSMerc,

I will also pay to have your current failed alternator evaluated by our testing process. Let me now where to pick it up and I will pay for the shipping.

Call me directly at (313)336-6135.

Sincerely,

Jerry
WOW!!!! You can't beat that kind of service!! BRSMerc, it sounds to me like Jerry is willing to really go the extra mile here for you. And as one of his customers, I must say that based on my 7,000 mile experience w/my Trilogized Marauder so far, I agree about the Trilogy kit not being the problem, because if it was, then I would think that at some point during my hard driving during this past summer, that my NEW alternator would've bit the dust also.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Please do not try to make a Ford part, our problem.
Jerry :thinker:

This thread should have gone in The Garage Forum, not The Trilogy Forum. JMO

;)

[BRSMERC]

With what I see now, I agree with you - it should be in the garage forum. I wasn't sure at the beginning.

Brian

[BRSMERC]

Starting to feel better!
I picked up the alternator from the local Ford dealer. Yes there was a core charge. I am 99.99% sure it is a new alternator. The dealer and myself cannot explain the core charge?
Put the new alternator in the Marauder and all is well - 14 Volts and no fault light. The real test will be at 6000 RPM.
My good camera is at work and I got poor close-ups of the rotor. For now I will describe the failure.
-The rotor field coil was open-circuited.
-The wire had come apart where the field wire was soldered to the slip ring wire. The wire comes radially out of the field coil and over one of the notches in the field iron. Here it is soldered to a wire from the slip ring and then glued into the notch with epoxy.
-The epoxy was missing and the two wires were sitting in open air.
It is reasonable to conclude that at high RPMs, the centrifugal forces separated the epoxy from the rotor iron and subsequently broke apart the solder joint. The cause was a poor bond between the iron and epoxy.
I have two possible sources of the problem:
-The epoxy bonding is a hit and miss thing which is causing our random failures.
-The replacement rotors are not the same or have poorer workmanship in the securing of the slip ring connections.

If one of the Ford alternators fails, I will open it up and see if the failure is similar. A small modification with a securing clamp and additional epoxy would solve the epoxy bonding problem. So few of us have had failures, and it would be premature to start modifying at this point. I'll let you all know how the Ford alternator works out. Once I get the better pictures I'll post them if you like, or I might be boring you after this point.

Jerry:
I'll take some pictures of the installation and forward them to you. The belt routing, pulleys, and tensioner are all as shown on the Trilogy drawings.

Brian

[BRSMERC]

Here are the photos to give you a better idea of the problem. One can clearly see the failure and what a normal epoxy bond looks like.
The fan blades would provide different efficiencies depending on the direction of rotation but the alternator shows no sign of overheating.
The genuine Ford part is giving no problems! I think I learned my lesson in the aftermarket world!
Thanks for the help!

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/5691/password/a33023837ca1a7d48efdb560a8e295 89/sort/1/size/medium/cat/501/page/1

Brian

[BillyGman]

The automotive electrical place that I took my failing alternator to performed airflow tests on the alternator, and they concluded that the fan blades flow 2/3rds of the air for cooling in the opposite direction as they do in their original intended direction, however they also stated that there wasn't any sign of the alternator overheating as a result, and that spinning the alternator in the reverse direction isn't a problem. But I too learned the hard way that when it comes to Ford alternators (atleast for the Marauder) you cannot depend on aftermarket and/or rebuilt units. You have to buy a new alternator and the best place to go is to the parts department in the Ford/Mercury dealer to be sure that you're really getting a new Ford alternator and not a rebuilt one.