ProCharger Blower coming for MM

[maraudernkc]

Great News!

Dennis Reinhart along with myself and Pro Charger will be teaming up to build this new Blower for the MM. It will be appliacation specific.

The following are a few deatils:

1.The blower will be self contained (no tapping your oil pan)

2.We will use a 3 core air to air intercooler (much eiser to install)

3.It will not be a blow thru design as first thought(Dennis suggested using a draw thru desing because of tunning issues)

What your going to find on this blower compared to the Vortech is that if they both run say 9PSI because of the design of the impeller of the Pro Charger Blower you are going to see much higher torque numbers and about 6/10ths shredded off in the quarter mile. I know this will have to be proved to you guys.

Dennis and myself will be posting photos as we get this going.

Dennis will sell these as long as he is satisfied with the outcome of the blower for the MM.

There is nothing wrong with a Vortech Blower.

This is just another choice and will be less money and easier to install.

I just want you guys to know that the blower will be built for every Day street use.

Most companies would not build a specific blower for the MM because there are only 10K of them out there. This is my best friend that owns Pro Charger and he did not want me to put a vortech on and drive over to his house.That's why this blower is going to be produced.

With Dennis helping out on this, I think we will all be happy with the end results.

Thanks, Greg

[BillyGman]

I just had a meeting with my friend that owns ProCharger here in Kansas City and he gave the ok to start production on a blower kit for the MM. He promises that this kit will out produce any other blower on the market. Thanks, GregAnd this is going to run at the 6 PSI of boost like you've mentioned in that other thread? I've never heard of a 4.6L engine getting as much power out of merely 6 PSI of boost as you've claimed in that other thread.

[FiveO]

If you try to outproduce anything on the market you're going to push the limits of the stock internals.....


The stock internals can handle 500+...but not for long.


Good luck.

[FordNut]

If you try to outproduce anything on the market you're going to push the limits of the stock internals.....


The stock internals can handle 500+...but not for long.


Good luck.
It would be interesting to see how long the stock engine could handle 500 rwhp. Since full power is only occasionally utilized on a mostly street car it would seem to me that the lifetime would depend very highly on the user.

[maraudernkc]

IT WILL RUN 9PSI BUT WILL HAVE A HUGE INTERCOOLER AT LEAST A 3 CORE.

I WILL RUN MY CAR AT 6PSI BECAUSE I DIVE IT EVERY DAY. i AM JUST THAT WAY I WILL RUN LES BOOST AND RUN A LITTLE ON THE RICH SIDE.



And this is going to run at the 6 PSI of boost like you've mentioned in that other thread? I've never heard of a 4.6L engine getting as much power out of merely 6 PSI of boost as you've claimed in that other thread.

[maraudernkc]

I AGREE 500HP IS PUSHING ON HOW LONG IT WOULD LAST. THE KEY HERE IS TO BUMP UP THGE BOOST AND TO LOWER THE TEMP. OF THE INCOMMING AIR. THAT'S WHAT PROCHARGER IS GOOD AT.




It would be interesting to see how long the stock engine could handle 500 rwhp. Since full power is only occasionally utilized on a mostly street car it would seem to me that the lifetime would depend very highly on the user.

[klmore]

I'm considering a supercharger set up right after christmas. I'll be interested to see another kit hit the market. :burnout:

[Ross]

Well, this looks very interesting. While I am staying NA, at least for the foreseeable future, I still enjoy seeing the new developments for our MM's. We know of two good, dependable SC's from two reputable shops, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for more. I will be watching closely to see how this project develops. Good luck, and I hope you give us another good option for those who want to go SC. If someone is willing to take the risk of developing a new product for a limited, competitive market, that's good old capitalism at work! More good choices is always a good thing.

[FiveO]

My comment didn't mean that I'm not happy that another s/c may hit the market.

Thats wonderful! I would just hate to see a s/c hit the market that makes the car run on the ragged edge of failure by pushing the stock internals too far.

Best of luck....good to see innovation!

[ADE 1000]

The currently available supercharger setups for the Marauder seem to be all one would need to get the most out of the stock internals. Even if someone could do slightly better, I still would be reluctant to try anything other than the current proven options.

Competition is always good, but the only opportunity I see for an additional source is if it were a more affordable alternative.

[BillyGman]

The currently available supercharger setups for the Marauder seem to be all one would need to get the most out of the stock internals. Even if someone could do slightly better, I still would be reluctant to try anything other than the current proven options.

Competition is always good, but the only opportunity I see for an additional source is if it were a more affordable alternative. I agree. That's pretty much the way that I see it too, but I guess if other people want to experiment w/their own cars that's their choice. :dunno:

[stevengerard]

Let me be the first to say thanks to maraudernkc and good luck to pro charger. maraudernkc has gone out of his way to give us another option, lets be appreciative. I understand being realistic, unfortunately for Jerry, Dennis and now Procharger there is a limited number of opportunities to S/C an MM. And each new type will dilute the market. But heck, obviously Procharger feels there is an opportunity which is worth their investment. Heck if it tweaks out a little more hp fat 10psi then heck that's great.

[Mike M]

I am very close to ordering a Trilogy Supercharger...should I wait to see how this ProCharger works out as far as price/performance goes???
I was going to order the trilogy before the end of this year.

[prchrman]

lots of people dearly love the pro chargers...willie

[SergntMac]

I am very close to ordering a Trilogy Supercharger...should I wait to see how this ProCharger works out as far as price/performance goes???
I was going to order the trilogy before the end of this year.
Just want to add some thoughts so we don't get confused. Not looking to start any flame war. Each style of supercharger has it's good points and it's distractions. Let's keep an open mind.

The ProCharger is very similar to the Vortech, it's centrifugal style, not roots style like an Eaton. Centrifugal chargers are added to the outside of the engine, and bolted in place. Trilogy uses an Eaton based roots, or "positive displacement" supercharger which requires replacement of the upper and lower intake manifolds. Let's not split hairs on this, the Trilogy is also a bolt on mod, because it can be removed and the engine restored to N/A. But, it's also internal to the engine. There is a third style, a "twin screw" ala Kenne Bell, but I'm not going to get into that right now. The chief difference between Vortech and ProCharges, is it's source for lubrication, however, both are remarkably similar in design, operation and appearance.

Both roots and centrifugal supercharger kits for our MM produce basically the same end result, adding about 150 RWHP to the stock engine, with safe tuning. Both can easily deliver more, it's simply a matter of changing some other parts like pulleys, MAFs, and retuning.

Most experts would agree that the "safety zone" for our engines is around this 150 RWHP, around 8-10 PSI of boost, on stock internals. And, like it's been pointed out, engine longevity is more in the hands of the tuner, and the foot of the owner, than it is on supercharger style or manfacturer.

What I've come to appreciate about my centrifugal style, is that it's not full time. When I'm crusing, city or highway, it's relatively passive and I'm driving on motor alone. My MPG average is relatively steady at 19-20 MPG city, and 22-23 highway In WOT, it provides about 9.5 PSI of boost, still a relatively safe zone to be in on a stock bottom end, with a good tune. If I want more power, I should start with rebuilding the bottom end before taking advantage of the power on hand.

The roots style is full time, always on, which is good for throttle response and serious power in the lower RPMs, but it's still full time on, even when crusing. I have no MPG data to refer to, but I understand it's a bit less. So, like many other things MM related, there are trade-offs to consider in the style you select, but they are all good.

Pande's got off to a poor start with the ProCharger and they lunched a few engines, but this was early in the MM game too, before some limitations of the bone stock MM/Mach 1 engine were fully explored. Moreover, the owner who commissioned the build wanted more, and the customer is always right, eh? Nonetheless, the ProCharger is an excellent product, and highly respected in the race community. For Maraudernkc to acknowledge that he wants to stay in the lower end of the safety zone, is a good decision and I admire that. His MM will still provide many hours of very scary entertainment.

Good luck on the project, keep us posted?

[David Morton]

I will still go with the Trilogy for two reasons...

1) Instant throttle response
2) Proven track record

[Tallboy]

I will still go with the Trilogy for two reasons...

1) Instant throttle response
2) Proven track record
those two reasons, along with input from members on this board, [you know who you are] are why i chose trilogy. either way, you can't lose when you supercharge a marauder.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I am very close to ordering a Trilogy Supercharger...should I wait to see how this ProCharger works out as far as price/performance goes???
NO........:run:

[Patrick]

All great points. I have made my choice for S/C. But dont want to add any fuel to a topic that could overheat. I doubt it but best not. To have another option to our MM is great. And continues to add more toys to an ever growning TOY CHEST!!!!!! :2thumbs:

[Zack]

The Procharger uses ceramic bearings which tranlates into less heat.
As for the intercooler, they typically utilize an air-to-air intercooler.
I personally think an air-to-water is foolproof for daily driving, but Procharger is known for dominating all classes at big drag racing events with the air-to-air. Im just anxious to see the finished product.
I love when people dare to be different.

[Mike M]

I know the Trilogy is about $6000.00 and the Reinhardt is more then that. Any clues on where the Pro Charger will end up????
If all 3 are adding about 150HP I think price becomes more important.
I pretty much have chosen the Trilogy but I guess until I find out the price of the Pro Charger I will wait.
I know the Mustang guys love the Pro Charger.

[MI2QWK4U]

I will still go with the Trilogy for two reasons...

1) Instant throttle response
2) Proven track record


Those are both very good points. I have had the Trilogy installed the longest besides the Trilogy #1 prototype car, with no problems. The packaging and installation are the best as far as im concerned. I think you will still find that the Trilogy is the best engineered and designed supercharger setup out there for the Marauder, at the best price to date. You wont be dissapointed with it....

[BillyGman]

The roots style is full time, always on,

No MAC, it isn't. I agree w/just about everything you stated in your post except for the quote above. The Trilogy S/Cer kit includes the Eaton S/cer model M112, and it uses a by-pass valve that is activated by throttle position. The valve is open wich by-passes the internal rotors of the S/Cer unit until you get close to the half throttle position, and then the valve closes which then causes all the air going to the intake manifold to go through the internal rotors of the S/Cer. Eaton integrated the by-pass valve in the 90's in order for gas economy while the driver's foot isn't into the pedal very much. On the highway my car gets 16.5 MPG with the 4.56 gears I have, and with the 4.10 gears I'd be getting 18.5 MPG on the highway. How do I know that? because I had the 4.10's in there before I put the 4.56's in. ;)

The reason why you get such great throttle response w/the Trilogy/Eaton set-up is because the Roots type S/Cer gives you all of your available boost all at once regardless of RPM when you punch it. If you give it half pedal, then you only get about 5 PSI of boost. And when you stay at just 1/3 pedal, you don't get any boost at all because of the bypass valve on the S/Cer.

[maraudernkc]

This will be mor affordable and you dont have to tap your oil pan.




The currently available supercharger setups for the Marauder seem to be all one would need to get the most out of the stock internals. Even if someone could do slightly better, I still would be reluctant to try anything other than the current proven options.

Competition is always good, but the only opportunity I see for an additional source is if it were a more affordable alternative.

[BillyGman]

This will be mor affordable and you dont have to tap your oil pan.But you don't have to tap into your oil pan w/the Trilogy Supercharger kit either, since the Eaton M112 Supercharger that it includes is a self-oiling,& a self-contained unit.

[FordNut]

I just had a meeting with my friend that owns ProCharger here in Kansas City and he gave the ok to start production on a blower kit for the MM. He promises that this kit will out produce any other blower on the market. We will start on the kit after the SEMA show in Vegas. It should be done around Nov. 15th.

And you don't have to tap your pan!

I will update everyone.

I just drove the new 2005 Mustang GT. Great car but down on power. Procharger will have a blower on that for the SEMA Show.

Thanks, Greg
Glad to hear they're finally coming around. I've been planning on a custom ProCharger setup based on the Mach1 kit with a D1SC upgrade and 12 psi pulleys, but this will save me a lot of work. The intercooler is going to be a challenge, I've been measuring and checking out dimensions of cores and possible tubing routing. I have a couple of ideas, if you want to discuss it send me an email.

Keep in mind, that some folks will never be convinced that something besides the roots type is a "real" supercharger.

[klmore]

Cost is an issue for me, saving money is always a good thing. If it's a $500 dollar difference it won't be a big of a deal. I do like the idea of having another option, but that has to be compared to products with a proven track record.

As much as I hate to admit it I'm leaning to the Trilogy kit for its factory looks. I've had a Lightning and a Super Coupe T-Bird and the the Trilogy kit looks as factory. That's my :twocents: .

[BillyGman]

Fordnut, whatever your choice is fine w/me since it is your car. But just for your benefit, let me just pose a question here.....

are you aware that any Mustang or Cobra has different accessory locations, as well as a different upper intake manifold which sweeps to the opposite side of the engine than the one on the Marauder? I'm not sure about the centrifugal kits, but I do know that with the Roots type S/Cer kits, that makes a world of difference.

[WildMarauder]

Two questions:

1. Is the ProCharger quiet (idle, off idle, heavy throttle)?
2. What is the maximum boost this supercharger can build, assuming a heavily built engine that can stand it?


[QUOTE=maraudernkc]Great News!

Dennis Reinhart along with myself and Pro Charger will be teaming up to build this new Blower for the MM.

[maraudernkc]

Gman, It will probably run 8PSI. Dennis R. Is joing in on this project.

Thanks, Greg



And this is going to run at the 6 PSI of boost like you've mentioned in that other thread? I've never heard of a 4.6L engine getting as much power out of merely 6 PSI of boost as you've claimed in that other thread.

[maraudernkc]

Dennis R is joining the Pro Charger project.


Well, this looks very interesting. While I am staying NA, at least for the foreseeable future, I still enjoy seeing the new developments for our MM's. We know of two good, dependable SC's from two reputable shops, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for more. I will be watching closely to see how this project develops. Good luck, and I hope you give us another good option for those who want to go SC. If someone is willing to take the risk of developing a new product for a limited, competitive market, that's good old capitalism at work! More good choices is always a good thing.

[maraudernkc]

ProCharger is proven on just about every other Hi Perf. Car. It's just another choice.




The currently available supercharger setups for the Marauder seem to be all one would need to get the most out of the stock internals. Even if someone could do slightly better, I still would be reluctant to try anything other than the current proven options.

Competition is always good, but the only opportunity I see for an additional source is if it were a more affordable alternative.

[maraudernkc]

With Dennis R now involved. I guarntee that won't happen.




My comment didn't mean that I'm not happy that another s/c may hit the market.

Thats wonderful! I would just hate to see a s/c hit the market that makes the car run on the ragged edge of failure by pushing the stock internals too far.

Best of luck....good to see innovation!

[maraudernkc]

Thanks for the Vote. I now have Dennis R. involved in this project. It's going to be killer.




Let me be the first to say thanks to maraudernkc and good luck to pro charger. maraudernkc has gone out of his way to give us another option, lets be appreciative. I understand being realistic, unfortunately for Jerry, Dennis and now Procharger there is a limited number of opportunities to S/C an MM. And each new type will dilute the market. But heck, obviously Procharger feels there is an opportunity which is worth their investment. Heck if it tweaks out a little more hp fat 10psi then heck that's great.

[maraudernkc]

That is up to you. I do think your wait would be well worth your while and now that Dennis R will be working on this. I promise you it will be right. Pro Charger has some fantastic stuff and there products are bullet proof.




I am very close to ordering a Trilogy Supercharger...should I wait to see how this ProCharger works out as far as price/performance goes???
I was going to order the trilogy before the end of this year.

[maraudernkc]

That's why it's nice to have choice.

Wal- Mart or Target?

Lowes or Home Depot?



I will still go with the Trilogy for two reasons...

1) Instant throttle response
2) Proven track record

[maraudernkc]

There all good! At least she's Blown!




those two reasons, along with input from members on this board, [you know who you are] are why i chose trilogy. either way, you can't lose when you supercharge a marauder.

[maraudernkc]

Go ahead add the fuel!




All great points. I have made my choice for S/C. But dont want to add any fuel to a topic that could overheat. I doubt it but best not. To have another option to our MM is great. And continues to add more toys to an ever growning TOY CHEST!!!!!! :2thumbs:

[maraudernkc]

Zack, you are right they do dominate at the track but what we are building for the MM is a every Day street Blower. It must be 100% relaible in relation to the motors internals




The Procharger uses ceramic bearings which tranlates into less heat.
As for the intercooler, they typically utilize an air-to-air intercooler.
I personally think an air-to-water is foolproof for daily driving, but Procharger is known for dominating all classes at big drag racing events with the air-to-air. Im just anxious to see the finished product.
I love when people dare to be different.

[maraudernkc]

It will be priced with the mustang kits.




I know the Trilogy is about $6000.00 and the Reinhardt is more then that. Any clues on where the Pro Charger will end up????
If all 3 are adding about 150HP I think price becomes more important.
I pretty much have chosen the Trilogy but I guess until I find out the price of the Pro Charger I will wait.
I know the Mustang guys love the Pro Charger.

[BillyGman]

it's my understanding that the air-to-air intercoolers are more efficient, however they require a bigger area for the heat exchanger itself. I'm sure that the coolant type intercoolers require more total space under the hood since they require coolant hoses, and a water pump. But they don't require all that space in one place, whereas the air-to-air does because of the size of the heat exchanger that's needed. I believe that this is the reason why many foreign cars w/smaller engines which leave more open space underneath the hood are prime candidates for air-to-air intercoolers. But I'm sure that Dennis will figure out if a big enough air-to-air intercooler can fit under the Marauder hood or not.

[maraudernkc]

Fordnut, you are not going to have to do anything. This will be a turn key kit. I have to get with dennis about setting up a program to get her close. The problen is every car is diffrent. Lean = HP but also = blown motor. I perfer to run atad bit rich and play it safe.




Glad to hear they're finally coming around. I've been planning on a custom ProCharger setup based on the Mach1 kit with a D1SC upgrade and 12 psi pulleys, but this will save me a lot of work. The intercooler is going to be a challenge, I've been measuring and checking out dimensions of cores and possible tubing routing. I have a couple of ideas, if you want to discuss it send me an email.

Keep in mind, that some folks will never be convinced that something besides the roots type is a "real" supercharger.

[maraudernkc]

Gman, I have no problem with Eaton. I have one on my 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. It has no hesitation. I can assure you that the Pro Charger won't have much hesitation.

They all have there pros and cons:burnout:



Fordnut, whatever your choice is fine w/me since it is your car. But just for your benefit, let me just pose a question here.....

are you aware that any Mustang or Cobra has different accessory locations, as well as a different upper intake manifold which sweeps to the opposite side of the engine than the one on the Marauder? I'm not sure about the centrifugal kits, but I do know that with the Roots type S/Cer kits, that makes a world of difference.

[maraudernkc]

Pro Charger has a car that makes 1800 HP on pump gas. It's true! no BS

They have full race blowers if that's what you want.

Yes it is fairly quiet off idle. Not much of a whine.



Two questions:

1. Is the ProCharger quiet (idle, off idle, heavy throttle)?
2. What is the maximum boost this supercharger can build, assuming a heavily built engine that can stand it?


[QUOTE=maraudernkc]Great News!

Dennis Reinhart along with myself and Pro Charger will be teaming up to build this new Blower for the MM.

[FordNut]

are you aware that any Mustang or Cobra has different accessory locations, as well as a different upper intake manifold which sweeps to the opposite side of the engine than the one on the Marauder? I'm not sure about the centrifugal kits, but I do know that with the Roots type S/Cer kits, that makes a world of difference.
The Mach1 has identical accessory locations as far as pulleys, idlers, pumps and such.

The intake issue of being reversed from the mustang has been resolved by both KB and DR with their existing centrifugal offerings. Adding the air-to-air intercooler will be a challenge, not so much for tubing as for fitting the intercooler between the grille and radiator. Changing to draw-thru MAF shouldn't be a big problem. And after seeing Marty's car, I can say there is a ton of room between the radiator and engine since he's running a 4" pipe from the intercooler to the throttle body instead of the more common 3".

[maraudernkc]

I agree with the throttle response but Pro Charger also has a proven track record.




I will still go with the Trilogy for two reasons...

1) Instant throttle response
2) Proven track record

[BillyGman]

The Mach1 has identical accessory locations as far as pulleys, idlers, pumps and such.


Every Mustang and Cobra I've seen has the alternator in a different place than the marauder does. They're off to the side (driver's side) and not mounted in the center like the stock marauder set-up. And i thought that the power steering was also mounted w/a different type of bracket.

[MI2QWK4U]

I agree with the throttle response but Pro Charger also has a proven track record.

What do you intend to do with your Marauder once it is done? Daily driver with a lot on tap when you call on it, or a car for heavy duty strip use? Only reason I ask is there a difference between the Procharger and the Eatons/Vortecs in terms of what each is designed for, that being street or strip use. Would something made for heavy duty strip use have any drivability issues? Just curious.

[maraudernkc]

I am going to drive it on the street and have fun smoking some C6 and mustangs. These kits will be made for street use. Now you can up your boost and make it more for the strip use but than not enoughf might fuel might come into play and a stock MM is not going to handle the extra boost. You have to remember that when you are just cruising you are not putting a strain on the motor it's that WOT that will get you. Don't run too much boost and don't run lean and you will have some fun.




What do you intend to do with your Marauder once it is done? Daily driver with a lot on tap when you call on it, or a car for heavy duty strip use? Only reason I ask is there a difference between the Procharger and the Eatons/Vortecs in terms of what each is designed for, that being street or strip use. Would something made for heavy duty strip use have any drivability issues? Just curious.

[maraudernkc]

Ask Dennis R. how he wants to do it. I am going to let him call alot of the shots on this deal. Pro Charger knows how to build blowers but Dennis knows the MM as well as anybody.


Every Mustang and Cobra I've seen has the alternator in a different place than the marauder does. They're off to the side (driver's side) and not mounted in the center like the stock marauder set-up. And i thought that the power steering was also mounted w/a different type of bracket.

[maraudernkc]

Hey Pro Charger is getting 750HP at the rear wheel on the new Mustang Cobra. They are running the stock intercooler plus another one of theres but that motor is built for a blower. I think there running 20lbs of boost thru those. The motors are holding but everything else is blowing. That's not what we want for our MM.


Every Mustang and Cobra I've seen has the alternator in a different place than the marauder does. They're off to the side (driver's side) and not mounted in the center like the stock marauder set-up. And i thought that the power steering was also mounted w/a different type of bracket.

[BillyGman]

I have no doubt about dennis' familiararity w/the marauder. i was just replying to Fordnut's comment about the mach I having the same accessory locations. I think that they don't unless they're different than every other Mustang and Cobra to date.

[maraudernkc]

Should I go with Cobra exhaust manifolds and cats or Kook's? Is the Kook's bolt on or is there welding? Also are you ruuning a bottle to get that time or is that just one hell of a time without the bottle?




I have no doubt about dennis' familiararity w/the marauder. i was just replying to Fordnut's comment about the mach I having the same accessory locations. I think that they don't unless they're different than every other Mustang and Cobra to date.

[maraudernkc]

Is your an every day driver?


I have no doubt about dennis' familiararity w/the marauder. i was just replying to Fordnut's comment about the mach I having the same accessory locations. I think that they don't unless they're different than every other Mustang and Cobra to date.

[BillyGman]

Should I go with Cobra exhaust manifolds and cats or Kook's? Is the Kook's bolt on or is there welding? Also are you ruuning a bottle to get that time or is that just one hell of a time without the bottle?Never ran any bottle, and I never would. What I accomplish w/my car at the track is what it can do on the street, and w/Nitrous, it's just too inconvenient for the street since you have to drive across town just to fill the bottle, and I'm often in too much of a huury to get gasolione let alone having to fill a bottle.

I turmed 12.2 ET's in two consecutive runs this past June in Attco, NJ.

As far as the exhaust, that's a matter of preference. I like the Kooks because they're real headers. I've never liked shorty headers. If I'm gonna bother ripping off the stock exhaust manifolds than I'm gonna install headers wgile I'm in there, otherwise I won't even bother. That's my preference. I think headers sound great. And there is NO welding requird w/the kooks set-up other than one weld required on the passenger side muffler where it meets the tailpipe. i got away w/out having to weld it, but it isn't easy. But the rest of the entire Kooks exhaust is all bolt-on and can be done w/out welding, and even if you do it yourself like I did, then you can always get it all together except fop that one tailpipe, and then drive it someplace to get that one small weld done.

[MI2QWK4U]

Is your an every day driver?


My Trilogy #2 is also a daily driver pushed a little harder than just about anyone else with a Trilogy. It has the daily drivability of a stock Marauder, but the strip pressance of a wild beast.

[maraudernkc]

Did you buy the stainelss headers and do you have to do any welding?

Your so close to the 11's. I agree with you about the bottle. I would not run one. what was your reaction time?

I

Never ran any bottle, and I never would. What I accomplish w/my car at the track is what it can do on the street, and w/Nitrous, it's just too inconvenient for the street since you have to drive across town just to fill the bottle, and I'm often in too much of a huury to get gasolione let alone having to fill a bottle.

I turmed 12.2 ET's in two consecutive runs this past June in Attco, NJ.

As far as the exhaust, that's a matter of preference. I like the Kooks because they're real headers. I've never liked shorty headers. If I'm gonna bother ripping off the stock exhaust manifolds than I'm gonna install headers wgile I'm in there, otherwise I won't even bother. That's my preference. I think headers sound great.

[FordNut]

Every Mustang and Cobra I've seen has the alternator in a different place than the marauder does. They're off to the side (driver's side) and not mounted in the center like the stock marauder set-up. And i thought that the power steering was also mounted w/a different type of bracket.
Go look at a Mach1.

[FordNut]

Should I go with Cobra exhaust manifolds and cats or Kook's? Is the Kook's bolt on or is there welding? Also are you ruuning a bottle to get that time or is that just one hell of a time without the bottle?
Go with the Kook's.

[maraudernkc]

You have the boost cranked up on her! How many miles running that boost?


My Trilogy #2 is also a daily driver pushed a little harder than just about anyone else with a Trilogy. It has the daily drivability of a stock Marauder, but the strip pressance of a wild beast.

[BillyGman]

Is your an every day driver?absolutely. A lot of people claim their car is for the "street" but I use my Marauder every single day to get to work and back, and I even drive it in the snow since it is my only car. And this S/Cer I have is absolutely well manered enough for the street, while it turns a 12.2 ET at the track in 70 degree whether which BTW is the same ET that I saw a Dodge Viper turning at the dragstrip last year. And in real cold whether I'd be in the 11's.

[SergntMac]

I was just replying to Fordnut's comment about the Mach I having the same accessory locations. I think that they don't unless they're different than every other Mustang and Cobra to date.
Well Billy, why not go get a peek at what's under the hood of a Mach I before you say anything more? You may see things differently, once you do.

Maraudernkc...Just get busy on the ProCharger project, K? You're spinning your wheels here, trying to dice up terminology with members who don't get your vision, while many more of us here (and not posting) are waiting to learn more.

Now that Dennis is behind your project, we all know the project will produce straight up 411. I know it's an election year, but skip the rethoric, K?

[Petrograde]

...snip...Y'all use these handy emoticons much too often, and I think this is a good example of how emoticons fail us in sharing 411 accurately. Dave here, used this "ROTF" emoticon and it's misdirecting my attention. At least, I hope it is.

Have to ask...What's on your mind, Dave? And, please spell it out, because if you're publically laughing at Dennis Reinhart's expertise and involvement in a ProCharger project here, you are way out of line, dude. Way, way out...

...snip...

hmm,... I took it this way Mac: Maraudernkc mentioned that Dennis was involved in this several times in a row.

I got a kick out of Maraudernkc's enthuisiam. Dave's comment made me laugh. I didn't think he was messing with Dennis.

[FordNut]

hmm,... I took it this way Mac: Maraudernkc mentioned that Dennis was involved in this several times in a row.

I got a kick out of Maraudernkc's enthuisiam. Dave's comment made me laugh. I didn't think he was messing with Dennis.
I didn't think much about Dave's post, maybe he was rolling over the fact that Dennis installs all three different supercharger kits (and exhaust systems, etc.). Whatever you want, Dennis will do it...

[BruteForce]

...Dennis installs all three different supercharger kits (and exhaust systems, etc.)...

which I believe adds to his credibility as he doesn't have to defend any one method over another. He is interested in providing what his customers want... performance products for their MMs. And he recognizes that one size does not fit all.

[BillyGman]

Glad to hear they're finally coming around. I've been planning on a custom ProCharger setup based on the Mach1 kit with a D1SC upgrade and 12 psi pulleys, but this will save me a lot of work. The intercooler is going to be a challenge, I've been measuring and checking out dimensions of cores and possible tubing routing.

Fordnut, I haven't seen any S/Cer kits being offered for the Mach I specifically, but only for the Mustang & Cobra which I know have different accessory locations. However I cannot say that I've looked as hard for centrifugal S/Cer kits as I have roots and twin screw type S/Cer kits. Apparently based on your statement that I quoted above, you have seen Procharger kits available not only for the Mustang, but even for the Mach I specifically. I had thought that since the mach I is derived from the Mustang just as the Cobra was, that the mach I had the same accessory locations just as the Cobra and the Mustang does, but when I investigated that, I realized that you were right, and that the Mach I does have the alternator located in the same place as our Marauders do rather than where the Mustang and Cobra do.

So I stand corrected. Thankyou for pointing that out to me. I don't understand why the alternator is in the same location on the Mach I as it is on the Marauder while the Mustang has the alternator in a different place. But whatever the reason, the bottom line is that I was in error concerning the mach I. Thanks again. ;)

[stevengerard]

Y'all use these handy emoticons much too often, and I think this is a good example of how emoticons fail us in sharing 411 accurately. Dave here, used this "ROTF" emoticon and it's misdirecting my attention. At least, I hope it is.

Have to ask...What's on your mind, Dave? And, please spell it out, because if you're publically laughing at Dennis Reinhart's expertise and involvement in a ProCharger project here, you are way out of line, dude. Way, way out...

I'm hoping I'm way overtired right now, and really missing your point, Dave, because if I had posted your words and emoticon using Jerry Barnes, Trilogy, or, Lidio's name in place of Dennis Reinhart, I am sure none of y'all would ever hear from me ever again. Rather than make a stink over this, just explain what you meant. I didn't get it, maybe many others did not as well?

Just to let you know, at first I thought this was a big diss to Dennis as well, but then realized it was Dave and figured either he put that there by mistake or meant something else. What I like about this site is the passion we all bring to it, some times its hard to read between the lines. Remember email has no tone check!

[Tallboy]

hmm,... I took it this way Mac: Maraudernkc mentioned that Dennis was involved in this several times in a row.

I got a kick out of Maraudernkc's enthuisiam. Dave's comment made me laugh. I didn't think he was messing with Dennis.petro seems to have interpreted things correctly. maraudernkc is obviously very excited dennis is involved-who wouldn't be? i highly doubt MI2QWK4U was trying to belittle/offend anyone. supercharger threads seem to be very volatile. it's a vanilla/chocloate/strawberry type of thing. your favorite flavor may not be the same as guy standing in line behind you. nobody here is right or wrong-just different. ;)

[MarauderMark]

Sounds like another thread about to be closed again!!

[stevengerard]

OK now who's going to convince someone to develop a turbo kit!

[UAW 588]

Can't we just all get along?

[SergntMac]

I'm probably the only one who percieved it as disrespect, so, my bad, eh?

Let's get back to the ProCharger stuff, already I have questions stacked.

MaraudernKC...I have a Vortech blower, V-2, S Trim. How does this rate against the ProCharger you suggest, and what would be it's equal in performance. Can you include a model number?

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

:duel: :hide: .

[Captain Steve]

The problem with the internet is that you can't finish the argument with a nice clean fistfight, followed by an apology and then a beer.:beer:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

:hmmm: ...........

[maraudernkc]

Zack,thanks, I would think that MM owners like myself would be happy that they have choices on what S/C they want for there car. I am not saying that Pro Charger is the best. That will be determined by each person.

[maraudernkc]

It will be model number P-1SC just go the there web site . What I think you will find is the HP will be a tad bit higher but the Torque numbers will be much higher because of the design of the impeller of the Pro Charger. I am talking 5 to 6/10 in the quarter mile.

procharger.com






I'm probably the only one who percieved it as disrespect, so, my bad, eh?

Let's get back to the ProCharger stuff, already I have questions stacked.

MaraudernKC...I have a Vortech blower, V-2, S Trim. How does this rate against the ProCharger you suggest, and what would be it's equal in performance. Can you include a model number?

[MikesMerc]

It will be interesting to see how the Pro Charger project goes. New ideas are always better than none.

It'll come down to roots vs screw again in the end. Both produce good HP numbers. But, as always, it'll be the shape of the torque curve that will make or break the project. I've yet to see a centrifugal application produce a power curve (primarily the torque curve) that beats a roots application for street duty.

BTW, someone above mispsoke about the Trilogy roots blower being "always on". Simply not true. Under vacuum conditions in the intake, which accounts for 90% of street driving, the internal by pass eliminates the boost. The motor is experiencing no boost whatsoever in this mode and heat is kept well under control. LOL...that's the beauty in a roots set up....no boost as long as your foot is out of it, but max boost there at the crack of the throttle on demand at low rpms. ANyone who has driven both types of blow cars (roots vs centrifugal) would know what I mean. Power delivery is totally different.

All that said, that doesn't mean I am not interested in how a Procharger kit comes together. Fpr those looking for another power delivery graph to evaluate, I'd love to see it. Although I am certain it won't produce the same type of low end power a roots blower can make (just a fact of physics folks), I'd be interested to see if a Procharger kit can out gun a vortech blown MM on the low side of the rpm band where street driving takes place.

[maraudernkc]

If anyone here questions Pro Charger's credintials than just go to there web site at procharger.com

This is no 2nd rate company and I don't understand why anyone that has a MM would not want to have another choice if they wanted to S/C there MM.

I just want everyone on this site to know that I don't think that Vortech or Eaton is a bad product.

If some of you want to bash Pro Charger that's fine but you might want to go to there web site before you bash them.

[Constable]

I just saw this thread for the first time and am soooo P!SSED OFF that my Marauder is for sale. I've been waiting for a ProCharger kit since the first day I bought my car. The ease of installation, quality, and awesome power are so attractive. A lot of people here will see these kits make the same power as the rest of the kits, but will cost less and have a much lower install cost. I was p-o'd when I saw one of Pande's kits because it looked "cheap". Let's all just wait until this one's done to make our decisions... no assumptions.

[MikesMerc]

If anyone here questions Pro Charger's credintials than just go to there web site at procharger.com

This is no 2nd rate company and I don't understand why anyone that has a MM would not want to have another choice if they wanted to S/C there MM.

If some of you want to bash Pro Charger that's fine but you might want to go to there web site before you bash them.

egads...I hope you didn't think my post was bashing Pro Charger! That's simply not what I was saying if that is how you took it.

It isn't about quality or reliability here. Its about the product and its intended application. If you said you were going to set up a car with big gears and a high stall converter for the track, and that power delivery in the upper rpm band is where you need it, then I'd say go with Vortech or Procharger for a centrifugal blower. But, if you said you were building a street beast and wanted the best power delivery in the lower rpm band where most street driving takes place, than I'd say get a Eaton based blower kit like Trilogy.

One blower is NOT better than the others!

However, each blower has its best application!

Thats a fact.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[tmac1337]

Good luck Maraudernkc and Dennis Reinhart. Sounds like it will be another good kit to consider, especially so if the price is down in the mustang kit range.

[BillyGman]

egads...I hope you didn't think my post was bashing Pro Charger! That's simply not what I was saying if that is how you took it.

It isn't about quality or reliability here. Its about the product and its intended application. If you said you were going to set up a car with big gears and a high stall converter for the track, and that power delivery in the upper rpm band is where you need it, then I'd say go with Vortech or Procharger for a centrifugal blower. But, if you said you were building a street beast and wanted the best power delivery in the lower rpm band where most street driving takes place, than I'd say get a Eaton based blower kit like Trilogy.

One blower is NOT better than the others!

However, each blower has its best application!

Thats a fact.

Good luck and keep us posted.
I fully understood what you were saying Mike, and you're correct.. Some people just get touchy about this topic, and it can hinder some of us from speaking our minds freely. Which BTW is what they don't want us to do. I wonder why. :rolleyes:

[Captain Steve]

First, thank you maraudernkc and Dennis Reinhart for going through the trouble of working out a new supercharger application for the Marauder.

From what I understand so far, the Pro Charger blower is an economical alternative that performs well in other cars and will do a good job in ours.

From what I've read on this board over the last couple of months, ANY supercharger is going to make a huge difference in your Maraudering. Nobody seems to be arguing this point.. supercharger=good stuff. The arguments on the boards seem to come down to matters of taste and opinion more than technology. Oh, and personality conflicts.

I don't think that it's disputed that the Roots style blowers make more low end power and that the centrifugal blowers make more high end. Our vendors have been very upfront about the prices, so there's no arguments there, just facts to compare.

What we're left to argue over are opinions. People advocate their choices. They've made their decision and are happy to talk about the reasons they made their choices.

The friction we sometimes see on this board seems to me to come from people forgetting that just because one blower or another was the right choice for YOU, does not make it the right choice for others.

I want to get a supercharger for my car someday. Right now the option isn't there for me because I can't afford to void my warranty for any reason. I could afford either supercharger with some saving, but I couldn't afford to replace the whole engine if a disaster happened and something let go inside. So, for now I'm watching on the sidelines and I haven't had to make a commitment to either brand.

The factors in my choice of supercharger would be:
upfront price : performance : installation price : reliability

Obviously, my choice is going to be heavily slanted towards a cheap, easy to install, reliable supercharger that still gives me a kick in the pants when I stomp the go pedal.

If I had more money free to spend on my car, then performance might come in to play more and I'd analyse the differences more.

So, a low-price supercharger kit that's easy enough for me to install myself is VERY interesting to me. It could be 20% less powerfull that the others with a tune that was equally reliable and it would still be attractive to ME.

If somebody were to come out with a blower kit that cost 3k installed and added 75 reliable horsepower, I'm sure alot of people would be all over it.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I have been asked to help with this Procharger project, I am more than glad to help, I look over all these posts, and see a few misconceptions, which seems to be always the case, when any one here wants to talk about any thing other than a Roots blower, first of all I like The looks of Trilogy kit I am an authorized installation facility. But I have been selling Vortech for a long time and I like these units I have Never had one fail, there customer service and warranty is excellent. They make more power at a lower boost level than the roots, but yes they spool up slower, with the right configuration of tunning and gears there is very little lag.

The procharger is a self contained unit, it has its own lubricating system, both Vortech and Procharger blowers will make close to the same power depending on pulley size. The Procharger kit will cost less than the Vortech kit because of its air to air after cooler, this will help those members here that cannot afford the 6K of the Trilogy or my Vortech kit.

Now you the members can decide on who's kit you want, do your homework and read up on differences in each kit. The roots blower is a good unit it spools up quicker, but it generates a lot more heat than either centrifugal kit, that's why I like Centrifugal, we have members here running very good numbers and with these kits Zack is tearing them up at the track so is Liddio.

Now as far as some of the statements I have seen above saying there stating with proven reliability in referencing the Roots that's fine if that is your choice, Centrifugal blowers have just as good a record, so its a bit missleading to insinuate there not, and this may not be a intentional insinuation.

I am just presenting my point of view, I have based this on years of experence, Take the 03/04 Cobra. Why do you think so many owners have switced to Prochargers F1A conversion kit, its because of the advantages of the Centrifgul kit over the OEM Roots blower, I like Procharger to they have come a long way and I am building my car now and I am going to use a F1A on my car, with these kits on the 30/04 Cobra cars these cars are making almost 700 RWHP with minor fuel and Maf changes, on the flip side there 03/04 Cobra ownwers going to the BlowZilla roots kit by Kenny Bell, its what ever tripps your trigger.

The bottom line are there are lots of options on the table for the Marauder owners.
So again I am not here to start a bomb fire, I am just trying to explain there are always options. Just like months ago someone stated why do any mods just bolt on an SC, and now we have N/A Marauders running as fast as some S/C Marauders.

[jstevens]

My .02.
Its anyones opinion as everyone has one. Your right, not everyone has $7K to drop on a S/C.

Just a few questions.
What is the expected launch date?
What will be the target market price? Both kit and installation.

I'm still investigating currently.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I would say mid December or early Jan, we will setting this up as a draw through Maf configuration and it will have a fuel upgrade as well, again I am a firm believer of upgrading the transmission and brakes at a bare minimum when using any ones kit.

[maraudernkc]

Dennis, Well put!




I have been asked to help with this Procharger project, I am more than glad to help, I look over all these posts, and see a few misconceptions, which seems to be always the case, when any one here wants to talk about any thing other than a Roots blower, first of all I like The looks of Trilogy kit I am an authorized installation facility. But I have been selling Vortech for a long time and I like these units I have Never had one fail, there customer service and warranty is excellent. They make more power at a lower boost level than the roots, but yes they spool up slower, with the right configuration of tunning and gears there is very little lag.

The procharger is a self contained unit, it has its own lubricating system, both Vortech and Procharger blowers will make close to the same power depending on pulley size. The Procharger kit will cost less than the Vortech kit because of its air to air after cooler, this will help those members here that cannot afford the 6K of the Trilogy or my Vortech kit.

Now you the members can decide on who's kit you want, do your homework and read up on differences in each kit. The roots blower is a good unit it spools up quicker, but it generates a lot more heat than either centrifugal kit, that's why I like Centrifugal, we have members here running very good numbers and with these kits Zack is tearing them up at the track so is Liddio.

Now as far as some of the statements I have seen above saying there stating with proven reliability in referencing the Roots that's fine if that is your choice, Centrifugal blowers have just as good a record, so its a bit missleading to insinuate there not, and this may not be a intentional insinuation.

I am just presenting my point of view, I have based this on years of experence, Take the 03/04 Cobra. Why do you think so many owners have switced to Prochargers F1A conversion kit, its because of the advantages of the Centrifgul kit over the OEM Roots blower, I like Procharger to they have come a long way and I am building my car now and I am going to use a F1A on my car, with these kits on the 30/04 Cobra cars these cars are making almost 700 RWHP with minor fuel and Maf changes, on the flip side there 03/04 Cobra ownwers going to the BlowZilla roots kit by Kenny Bell, its what ever tripps your trigger.

The bottom line are there are lots of options on the table for the Marauder owners.
So again I am not here to start a bomb fire, I am just trying to explain there are always options. Just like months ago someone stated why do any mods just bolt on an SC, and now we have N/A Marauders running as fast as some S/C Marauders.

[HwyCruiser]

Whew, this is one hot topic. Bravo to Maraudernkc for leading the way with this hook-up.

I haven't seen anyone throw out firm performance vs. cost claim, probably just because it doesn't exist yet. I'm with Capt Steve and others, I think a milder and cheaper sc option would get a lot of attention around here.

Maybe "just a little more" is just what some of us are looking for.

- JD

[tmac1337]

Captain Steve is right on the mark when stating Price: Performance: Reliability: Install Price. I have no doubt that when the kit is done performance and reliability will not be an issue. Install price is also a common denominator. Which brings us back to price. What will the price be? I believe most owners do not supercharge because of the price. This when the value of the cars is depreciating. Six thousand plus another thousand to install is a lot for most owners. Am I wrong in thinking there is a big mark up after the price of the parts? Does R&D account for more than half of the 6K after the parts? Correct me if I'm wrong but I could spend the 7K but I have a value for money issue. That is the only reason I have not S/C'd myself although I know the Trilogy Kit is excellent and so is Reinhart's.

I would like to see a reasonably priced kit that most owners could afford and enjoy, not a select few, good value for the money. It has been stated that this kit will be in the mustang range which is significantly lower. I hope so. Am I the only one who thinks this way? I have not intended to offend anyone in case I have.

[BillyGman]

Tmac, I for one am not at all offended by your comments. I have no reason to be, and you've said nothing offensive. Here's the way that I look at it.....


HP costs $$. There's no two ways about it. the faster you want to go, the more $$ it wil cost you. I think that how much $$ it costs a S/Cer kit maker for the parts of his kit is irrelavent here. What IS relavent is what alternatives we have as consuners to gaing well over 100 more HP to the wheels of our Marauders. And for $6,000 or less there isn't anything else other than nitrous oxide injection that will deliver that amount of power gains. Nitrous is much cheaper, but that bargain doesn't come w/out drawbacks. One of them being the inconvenience and the added expense of having to fill that bottle all the time which cannot be done at any gas station that you'll stop at to fuel up on gasoline.

Look at the crate engines that supply over 450 HP. The prices on them are more than $6k. Keep in mind that you can easily obtain 380-400 HP at the wheels w/the S/cer kits available to us, and that's the same as 460-480 at the crankshaft. And when you see crate engines being advertised,the power ratings are taken from the crankshafts. So you would have to purchase a crate engine that advertises having more than 450 HP to get the same power as one of these current S/cer kits for the Marauder available to us delivers. So in light of that, spending $6k for a S/cer kit is infact a good deal.

[MERCMAN]

WARNING This thread was started for the informational purposes on the Pro-Charger option for S/C. If you have questions about it,, ask away, if you want to bash either the product or those trying to get this off the ground,,DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. If you wish to discuss the pros and cons of various products, do it in a gentlemanly fashion.

You may return to your regularly scheduled program

[BillyGman]

But I have been selling Vortech for a long time and I like these units I have Never had one fail, there customer service and warranty is excellent. Dennis, I cannot dispute your claims about that, but for me, it meant a lot more that the Eaton S/Cers have been used on production street cars right out of the factory from Ford, Jaguar, Mercedes, Aston martin, and Buick. No other S/cer company has that kind of durability track record. There is literally a half million Eaton Superchargers in production street cars around the globe, and no other S/Cer company can make that claim other than Eaton. They make more power at a lower boost level than the roots, Again, I don't dispute that, however that's only part of the story here. Just because one particualr S/cer delivers more PEAK horsepower doesn't neccessarily mean that it will cause the car in question to be faster than it would be w/another S/Cer. the roots type S/cer delivers more low-end torque and often more midrange power than many centrifugal S/Cers do. So the area under the torque curve on the graph is greater. so there are pluses and minuses here, and there's more than one way to look at this. PEAK HP #'s aren't the only thing to be looking at, and I'm sure that you know that.

The procharger is a self contained unit, it has its own lubricating system, both Vortech and Procharger blowers will make close to the same power depending on pulley size. The Procharger kit will cost less than the Vortech kit because of its air to air after cooler, this will help those members here that cannot afford the 6K of the Trilogy or my Vortech kit.But what about the comparisants of track records on the STREET?

Now as far as some of the statements I have seen above saying there stating with proven reliability in referencing the Roots that's fine if that is your choice, Centrifugal blowers have just as good a record,How many production cars came with centrifugal S/Cers? it can't be very many since I've never heard of them. Why is that? so its a bit missleading to insinuate there not,I've simply stated facts. We can let people draw their own conclusions. I've drawn mine.

I am just presenting my point of view, I have based this on years of experence, Take the 03/04 Cobra. Why do you think so many owners have switced to Prochargers F1A conversion kit,It's because they're available. They've also swithed to the twin screw designs also as you've pointed out. its because of the advantages of the Centrifgul kit over the OEM Roots blower,There are "advantages" as well as disadvantages. it's merely a trade-off. You can't have it all unless you go with the Twin screw S/cers, and unfortunately there are no kits for Marauders that I'm aware of for those. I like Procharger to they have come a long way and I am building my car now and I am going to use a F1A on my car, with these kits on the 30/04 Cobra cars these cars are making almost 700 RWHP with minor fuel and Maf changes, on the flip side there 03/04 Cobra ownwers going to the BlowZilla roots kit by Kenny Bell, its what ever tripps your trigger.Agreed. and you also have to consider what you want to use the car for. daily driver, occassional driver, or strictly for track.

The bottom line are there are lots of options on the table for the Marauder owners.Agreed. Some better than others for the INTENDED puprpose.
So again I am not here to start a bomb fire, I am just trying to explain there are always options. Just like months ago someone stated why do any mods just bolt on an SC, and now we have N/A Marauders running as fast as some S/C Marauders. That's a matter of preference. Barry is the only N/A Marauder owner who ET's have come close to that of S/Ced marauders, and not only has his ET's been turned in cold whether (unlike the S/Ced ET's that I'm aware of) but I think that barry himself would admit to you that the combined cost of all of his peformance oriented modifications have come fairly close to that of the Trilogy S/Cer kit anyway. So for the similar cost of one modification, you can have a Marauder that's faster than Barry's car is, which has had many modifications done to it. ;) :banana2:

[MERCMAN]

RE: if anyone has questions about S/C check this months MM&FF. all aspects of pros and cons are there, at least I think so.(Remember this is coming from a layman, so your interpretation of the article may vary)

[BillyGman]

RE: if anyone has questions about S/C check this months MM&FF. all aspects of pros and cons are there, at least I think so.(Remember this is coming from a layman, so your interpretation of the article may vary)
Thanks. That sounds like a good article that's probably also unbiased. I'll have to check it out. :)

[sailsmen]

I had a 1989 S/C Thunderbird. Great car. 315ftlbs @2,500 RPM.

Blower was replaced @35K due to bearing rattle.

I often regret selling it.

The biggest problem I had was the 5 speed on the hwy with the torque max at 2,500 RPM the car wanted to go to 2,500 RPM which was 105 MPH in 5th.

On the highway I kept it in 4th to stay out of speeding trouble.

Procharger with the self oiling and air to air intercoller should make installation easier and require less MM only fabricated items resulting in lower costs. :D

O'boy S/C for us poor folks! :)

[BillyGman]

Sailsmen, I'm surprised to hear that about the Thunderbird. How did you find out the noise was the S/Cer? BTW, the Eaton/Trilogy S/cers are also self-contained or self-oiled systems just as the prochargers are. I just wanted to point this out. BTW, do you know if your Thunderbird had a self-oiling system or was it fed by engine oil? I'm not sure about that since that S/cer was a different model # than the current ones are, since that was the very beginning of that line back then. Infact, that was the first generation which ofcourse was 15 years ago, and the current ones are the fourth generation and are self-oiled units.

[Spiderplow]

Mike,

I saw in a previous post that you were going to install a set of Kooks headers. Did you ever buy a set? I have a stock 03MM and was looking at installing some 4.10's and a chip for starters. I live in Hamilton NJ about 20 minutes south of New Brunswick. Did you install the 4.10's or did you take your MM to a shop.

John


I am very close to ordering a Trilogy Supercharger...should I wait to see how this ProCharger works out as far as price/performance goes???
I was going to order the trilogy before the end of this year.

[Directedby]

I know you said in an earlier post that it will cost the same as a Procharger Mustang, but how much is that?

Procharger does not list prices on its website.

Installed, are we talking $3,000? $4,000? $5,000?

[Bradley G]

Nor does it list it's dealers . They want you to call for $ & CLOSEST DEALER

[sailsmen]

I believe it was self oiled. You could hear the S/C bearings rattle. I know bearing tech has come along way for S/C and Turbos since then.

The car was a great ride. White with red interior, 5 speed. Like new condition. Goodyear Gatorbacks. Massive rear independent suspension.

Lots of fun to drive around town with all that down low torque. :D

[fastblackmerc]

I'd be interested in the kit if it's going to be in the "Mustang" price range...

[duhtroll]

Any thoughts as to the safety and reliability factors in comparison to our two "main" kits out there right now?

I'm still perhaps looking at a kit in the future, but I'm being very slow and careful on this one.

Thanks,
-A

[maraudernkc]

It will be.




I'd be interested in the kit if it's going to be in the "Mustang" price range...

[FordNut]

I know you said in an earlier post that it will cost the same as a Procharger Mustang, but how much is that?

Procharger does not list prices on its website.

Installed, are we talking $3,000? $4,000? $5,000?
As I said earlier, $4000-5000 plus installation, depending on options. Check at RPMoutlet.com

[maraudernkc]

The MM is going in on Wen. at 10:00 A.M. to hava a Dyno base run.


It will be stock except for

9100 SCT by DR
plugs
stat
4:10 Gears

I will let you know the numbers. We will be starting on the Pro Charger MM kit next week.

Thanks, Greg

[tmac1337]

Good luck on the kit. The pictures of the S/C's and the Procharger look great on the musclemustangs&fastfords web site. Trilogy has a great stock look but the polish on the Procharger is impressive.

[maraudernkc]

Tmac, how do you like that stall for everyday driving?




Good luck on the kit. The pictures of the S/C's and the Procharger look great on the musclemustangs&fastfords web site. Trilogy has a great stock look but the polish on the Procharger is impressive.

[Dennis Reinhart]

The PI 3000 or 3500 stall converter is a very good investment, I have used them for years, we are all anxious to get this project going, again please bear with us till me get a kit finalized, and we can discuss pricing. I will do a group buy for the club the kit if there is enough interest. This will be a complete turn key kit, the kit will inclde every thing including a SCT 9100 with cable and I will send any file corections for FREE, so again let us get started with this and we will post our progress as we get started.

[tmac1337]

Greg, the 3000 stall TQ converter has been my best mod to date along with the exhaust. Well worth the money. Dennis installed a few mods for me several months ago and the car has been transformed. My next mod will be a S/C, waiting to see the results. I have the 9100 and cable also, Dennis has sent me a program via email that I successfully downloaded and uploaded, I recomend this as well.

[maraudernkc]

If you already hace a SC Tuner than you wont need one just another file but you will have to put her on the dyno and get the A/F numbers.




The PI 3000 or 3500 stall converter is a very good investment, I have used them for years, we are all anxious to get this project going, again please bear with us till me get a kit finalized, and we can discuss pricing. I will do a group buy for the club the kit if there is enough interest. This will be a complete turn key kit, the kit will inclde every thing including a SCT 9100 with cable and I will send any file corections for FREE, so again let us get started with this and we will post our progress as we get started.

[BillyGman]

The PI 3000 or 3500 stall converter is a very good investment, .
I just want to point out here that when I spoke with a rep from Precision Industries on the telephone (which is the company that manufactures the Stallion Torque converter for our cars) he specifically informed me that they do NOT recommend that we exceed a 3,000 RPM stall speed. He said that as long as you don't go any higher than 3,000 RPM's w/the stall, then your transmission would be fine, but on a street car, when you go past that, the transmission will be heated up considerably, and it will shorten it's life. I figured that this was worth mentioning because I'd like to think that a major manufacture of torque converters like Precision Industries must know what they're talking about.

[Zack]

I just want to point out here that when I spoke with a rep from Precision Industries on the telephone (which is the company that manufactures the Stallion Torque converter for our cars) he specifically informed me that they do NOT recommend that we exceed a 3,000 RPM stall speed. He said that as long as you don't go any higher than 3,000 RPM's w/the stall, then your transmission would be fine, but on a street car, when you go past that, the transmission will be heated up considerably, and it will shorten it's life. I figured that this was worth mentioning because I'd like to think that a major manufacture of torque converters like Precision Industries must know what they're talking about.


I have a PI 3500 Stall converter in my car and it absolutely the best thing Ive done since the blower. The 60 foot times I can achieve now are absolutely awesome for a centrifugal blower car. My best 60 foot was a 1.602. And the temperature difference between the 3000 & 3500 is NO different. I run between 155-165 degrees during normal driving and a maximum of 180 degrees during heavy beat downs. And to top it all off, there is NO change in driveability as compared to the 3000 stall. It is my recommendation to all Marauders, N/A or supercharged that you opt for the 3500 stall instead of the 3000. Yes, its that good.
Barry, are you listening???

[BillyGman]

I have a PI 3500 Stall converter in my car and it absolutely the best thing Ive done since the blower. The 60 foot times I can achieve now are absolutely awesome for a centrifugal blower car. My best 60 foot was a 1.602. And the temperature difference between the 3000 & 3500 is NO different. I run between 155-165 degrees during normal driving and a maximum of 180 degrees during heavy beat downs. And to top it all off, there is NO change in driveability as compared to the 3000 stall. It is my recommendation to all Marauders, N/A or supercharged that you opt for the 3500 stall instead of the 3000. Yes, its that good.
Barry, are you listening???
Zack, so do you think it's coincidental that you transmission has failed, and that you've had to rebuild it? Just posing the question here. Not looking to argue. But I'm sure that the extra stall speed is needed for a centrifugal S/cer. But let me also point out that i think that the Stallion torque converter is an excellent product. I purchased it before I did the S/cer, and before I decided on it, I searched all over the place on the web, and the only torque converter company that actually states excactly what the Torque Multiplication RATIO of their converters are is Precision Industries 9they claim it's 2.52:1 as opposed to factory stock ratios being 1.92:1). Many other companies don't even mention a torque multiplication ratio, and among the few others that do, they do NOT state what the raio of there converters are like P.I. does.

[Zack]

Zack, so do you think it's coincidental that you transmission has failed, and that you've had to rebuild it?

My OD band failed and my intermediate clutches were wearing prematurely due to an improper clearance set the first time it was built.
Until I take it out again, I cant tell you for sure, but I strongly doubt the TC causes premature wear on a built transmission.
And I know, I know, what about all the N/A cars and Trilogy cars running around out there without internal mods?
You are on borrowed time, period. Regardless of having a TC or not.

[BillyGman]

Thanks for your reply on that Zack. I can't help but to think it's the power level that you've gone with also. I say that because Jerry W. who as you know is one of the former Ford engineers who helped to design the transmissions in our car has made posts on other boards that I've read where he stated that these transmissions will hold up to as much as 430 HP at the wheels, but anything more than that, and they will fail. So that's one of the two reasons why I've decidd to be content with having 400 RWHP on my car. So in light of what Jerry W. has stated, I'm hoping for the best, and as a preventative measure, I have the transmission fluid changed twice per year. That might be overkill, but even the dealer only charges $145 for that, so spending $300 per year is no biggie as far as I'm concerned when it comes to preventative maintainence.

[jspradii]

RE: if anyone has questions about S/C check this months MM&FF. all aspects of pros and cons are there, at least I think so.(Remember this is coming from a layman, so your interpretation of the article may vary)
MM&FF, December 2004: Excellent article: Their conclusion: the application drives the choice. You decide what you want, and then select accordingly. No one unit is "better" than the other; it just depends on what you want it to do and how.

[studio460]

Hey! maraudernkc and Dennis are planning a P-1SC ProCharger kit for the Marauder????? THAT'S GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kudos to maraudernkc and Dennis for bringing another SC option to market! maraudernkc, Dennis, IGNORE all the bickering here--ALL of us WANT a supercharger, and many here have been eyeing the potential of a ProCharger solution for some time now. I guarantee you have many SILENT members here rooting you on! I like the internal lubrication of the ProCharger. I like the company and its track record. I like the idea of a lower install cost. I like the idea of a lower-heat system. The only thing I DON'T like about ProCharger superchargers is that they don't make that "whoosh" sound (is that true?).

Originally, the Trilogy set-up was my first choice. At $6K plus a $2K installation, however, many of us simply can't make the investment. I'm HOPING to buy a new Mustang GT someday as a second car (okay, a Ford Focus), so I've gotten more conservative in my future Marauder mods as well.

So . . . maraudernkc and Dennis, keep the faith, you have a lot of fans here!

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

MM&FF, December 2004: Excellent article: Their conclusion: the application drives the choice. You decide what you want, and then select accordingly. No one unit is "better" than the other; it just depends on what you want it to do and how.You can also base your decision on appearance:

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/2240NICE_.JPG

[martyo]

I agree Rick!!:

http://www.legalknevil.com/albums/Marauder/anh.jpg



You can also base your decision on appearance:

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/501/495Sideview2.jpg

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I still believe the roots blower looks most factory! :rolleyes:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I agree Rick!!:

http://www.legalknevil.com/albums/Marauder/anh.jpg Is this kit available to the public as a package ?????????:rolleyes:

[martyo]

Is this kit available to the public as a package ?????????:rolleyes:

Define "public".

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

Define "public".
Public: Pertaining to people as a whole; relating to a nation or community; open to the knowledge of all; generally known. :D

[maraudernkc]

BillyGman, I agree that if you want to be on the safe side of your Internal stock motor or Trans. that 400 t0 420RWHP is the safe number to run. It seems to me that most engines all grenade the same way. A rod thru the block.

Just my assesment and where I am going to keep my ponies at.



Thanks for your reply on that Zack. I can't help but to think it's the power level that you've gone with also. I say that because Jerry W. who as you know is one of the former Ford engineers who helped to design the transmissions in our car has made posts on other boards that I've read where he stated that these transmissions will hold up to as much as 430 HP at the wheels, but anything more than that, and they will fail. So that's one of the two reasons why I've decidd to be content with having 400 RWHP on my car. So in light of what Jerry W. has stated, I'm hoping for the best, and as a preventative measure, I have the transmission fluid changed twice per year. That might be overkill, but even the dealer only charges $145 for that, so spending $300 per year is no biggie as far as I'm concerned when it comes to preventative maintainence.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I just want to point out here that when I spoke with a rep from Precision Industries on the telephone (which is the company that manufactures the Stallion Torque converter for our cars) he specifically informed me that they do NOT recommend that we exceed a 3,000 RPM stall speed. He said that as long as you don't go any higher than 3,000 RPM's w/the stall, then your transmission would be fine, but on a street car, when you go past that, the transmission will be heated up considerably, and it will shorten it's life. I figured that this was worth mentioning because I'd like to think that a major manufacture of torque converters like Precision Industries must know what they're talking about.

Bily I am not sure who you spoke to at PI, but there WRONG, if you care to call and ask for Terry will take the time and correct the confusion, I just spoke to him he is the owner, and if you look at there web site it states there is nothing wrong with going with a higher stall,

THE TRUTH ABOUT STALL TORQUE RATIO
STR has been talked and argued about for many years. The following information is what we at Precision Industries have found by doing our own testing to be helpful for you to try to understand this subject. Our competitors must have a crystal ball to figure the STR of their torque converters. There are a couple of companies in the performance torque converter business that do have the capability to test STR, MOST DO NOT! Precision Industries happens to be one that does have. Our test dyno has the capability to test from 200 ft. lbs. of torque up to 900 ft. lbs. of torque. The other companies use dynamometers that vary from 100 ft. lb. of torque to approximately 300 ft. lb. of torque. There is an old GM printed sheet that has floated around our industry for about 10 years showing the STR of stock GM torque converters that were built back then. Our competitors either use this sheet or are guessing because they have no way of knowing what the STR really is. They also advertise STR’s of 2.7, 2.9, 3.0, 3.2, etc. this is pure BS. All torque converter companies use the impellers, turbines and stators that come in the factory torque converters. In our tests we have never seen an STR over 2.55. Precision Industries do have torque converters with STR over 2.55 but these units have specially machined stators in them and are not worth the high cost for a street/strip application. If our competitors try to tell you differently just ask them to show you a picture of their test machine, not just a printout. The formula for STR is EXACT OUTPUT TORQUE ÷ EXACT INPUT TORQUE = STR. This requires a known power source and a data recovery system. STR is just what the name implies. The ratio of torque multiplication at stall. As soon as the turbine rotates (car moves) the ratio starts dropping rapidly until enough RPM has been reached for the ratio to drop to 1:1. The RPM that the ratio reaches 1:1 varies depending on other factors in and out of the torque converter such as impeller exit angle, stator design, impeller to turbine clearance, input torque (engine), etc. A fact that most everyone overlooks is that a torque converter does not make torque! It takes the torque the engine produces and multiplies it for a very short period of time. This is why some cars perform better than others with the same torque converter.

Some car enthusiasts put all kinds of money in the engine, transmission, torque converter, NOS, rear end gears, etc. then want to cripple the torque converter by lowering the STR to try and prevent wheel spin on take off. This is as foolish as pulling off one of the plug wires. Why don’t they finish the project and work on the rear suspension? Trying to tune your car by using STR is probably not very smart seeing how our competitors don’t have a clue about what STR their converters have, after all the stock torque converter you took out of your car has a STR of 1.9-1.94. The best way to get the right torque converter for your car is to buy it from a company that has a large database of previous sales for your kind of car. Then tell the sales person what mods you have made and what mods you intend to make and let that person help with the decision. The key words here are large database. The “Johnny come lately companies” have no large database or experience with what works with these late vehicles. Why try to reinvent the wheel with your hard earned money when there is bound to be someone in our database that has the same mods as you do and their torque converter/engine combination ROCKS! At Precision Industries we found out 10 years ago that STR is not the most important consideration when deciding on a torque converter it is the whole COMBINATION!

http://www.converter.com/

[SergntMac]

Bravo, Dennis! Great notes, lot's of 411 for us all. Thank you.


BillyGman, I agree that if you want to be on the safe side of your Internal stock motor or Trans. that 400 to 420RWHP is the safe number to run. It seems to me that most engines all grenade the same way. A rod thru the block. Just my assesment and where I am going to keep my ponies at.
It's been my experience that rods don't fail by themselves, that something else out of whack in the engine caused the rod gives up the ghost. Only one way for the rod to go when it's being pushed in a manner it wasn't designed to travel, and that's sideways.

Limiting power on a stock OEM spec block is wise. The specs are good for a long and healthy life, but the engine to engine tolerances and QC are not. It's a mass-produced engine that meets minimal QC standards in the factory, or it gets -86ed. This is why one engine produces unimagined power and performance, and the next engine in line seizes as it's driven off the delivery truck. It's more of the "built on Monday or Friday" charm we all deal with these days, and buying a Cobra built short block out a parts catalogue isn't any different.

I believe the stock MM engine is 95 percent reliable and durable without any internal mods, and you should be able to add 75-100 RWHP any way you want without any worries. However, if you're going to get serious about developing power and constantly enjoying that, freshen up the engine and tighten things up. It's a specialty, yes, but it's not brain surgery.

The stock block and cast crank are fine as they are, they just need some balancing and attention to detail. Pick your choice of the popular forged pistons and rods, get race proven bearings, seals and gaskets, and a wrench who's on your side as an owner. There are hundreds all over the country, and it's about a 4K investment in longevity. No big deal, if you want to build your MM to your taste.

I'd give my business to Dennis in a minute if he wasn't 1800 miles away. So, www.per-race-engines.com is going to do my MM engine over this winter. I was quoted 5650.00, including R&R of the engine in their shop and lots of talented hands-on in the final assembly. Turn around time is about two weeks, and I'll have a built bottom end on a conservative budget. I'm also dropping the compression to 9:1, and upgrading my Vortech blower to the T trim. I'm expecting to run 13-15 PSI of boost and see 550 HP at the rear wheels on pump gas, and without worry.

That article from PI Dennis posted ^ there has a strong message in it.."Don't build your car from the wrong end." Pushing 150+ HP of supercharged power into a stock MM engine could be problematic if you're not careful. If this isn't for you, that's fine. I love the MM bone stock, but it's fun like I haven't had in years building it and I wish y'all would stop kicking the beans out of those of us who want to do things differently.

Dennis is a great man for what he's accomplished for us owners and his efforts are truely appreciated. I love and trust him like a brother. However, he's not the only race shop in town, and neither is that race shop in one town only. Find yourself a race shop local to you and have some fun, or at the very least, just leave the rest of us alone.

Sorry for the rant, anyone got change for a quarter?

[BillyGman]

I still believe the roots blower looks most factory! :rolleyes:
Since we're all offering our opinions here about mere apperence of each type of S/Cer, I agree w/Rick. I think the roots type does look better, becuae it doesn't look like a hairdyer like the centrigugal design does, and w/the roots type like Rick's, and mine you don't have those weird looking pipes running around through the engine compartment either. So the roots type looks like a miniature version of the blowers on Top-Fuel dragsters. Just my opinion.

[BillyGman]

[QUOTE=Dennis Reinhart], and if you look at there web site it states there is nothing wrong with going with a higher stall,


Dennis, from what I've seen, it looks to me that the torque converters that precision industries makes are some of the best you can buy. So we're in agreement there I'm sure. Yes, their website says that you can go w/a higher than stock stall speed, but I don't remember it specifying that you can go higher than 3,000 RPM. And I spoke to whoever it is that answers the phone over at P.I.and when I said to the guy that I have technicle questions, he said that he could answer them for me. And he told me that for a street driven car, they don't recommend that we go past 3,000 RPM w/the stall speed. So I dunno Dennis, I don't want to be quick to say that you're wrong, nor would I want to be quick to say that they're wrong. Maybe I'll give them another call about this.

[BillyGman]

BillyGman, I agree that if you want to be on the safe side of your Internal stock motor or Trans. that 400 t0 420RWHP is the safe number to run. It seems to me that most engines all grenade the same way. A rod thru the block.

Just my assesment and where I am going to keep my ponies at.
Allow me to clarifysomething here. I didn't say that the engine couldn't take more than 430RWHP. I said that from what I've read, our transmissions couldn't take more than that w/out being internally beefed-up. And looking at how both Dave and Zack blew their transmissions, and both of them were well over 430 RWHP when that happened, I have a tough time thinking that this was coincidental since the only other S/Ced marauder that I know of who has blown the transmission would be MAC's, and he too was over 430RWHP.

As far as the stock engine, I think that any time you S/Cer an engine, the pistons and/or the headgaskets will be the first to go, and proper tuning can prevent that from happening. The reason why the pistons and the haedgaskets go is because of detonation. but if the engine tuner in question tunes the engine properly, and not too agressively, then there won't be any pinging, detonation.

[MERCMAN]

Please read the FIRST post in this thread. This is not a discussion of anything but the introduction of the Procharger. Not a transmission thread, not a pro/con roots vs centrifugal thread. If you guys want to start a thread about either of the above topics, PLEASE do. If you have any questions pertaining to the Procharger, ask them here. This thread has been so far off track we need a trail of breadcrumbs to find our way back.

Off topic posts will be shipped to the netherworld post-haste

[MI2QWK4U]

Allow me to clarifysomething here. I didn't say that the engine couldn't take more than 430RWHP. I said that from what I've read, our transmissions couldn't take more than that w/out being internally beefed-up. And looking at how both Dave and Zack blew their transmissions, and both of them were well over 430 RWHP when that happened, I have a tough time thinking that this was coincidental since the only other S/Ced marauder that I know of who has blown the transmission would be MAC's, and he too was over 430RWHP.

As far as the stock engine, I think that any time you S/Cer an engine, the pistons and/or the headgaskets will be the first to go, and proper tuning can prevent that from happening. The reason why the pistons and the haedgaskets go is because of detonation. but if the engine tuner in question tunes the engine properly, and not too agressively, then there won't be any pinging, detonation.


You have a little bit of bad info there Billy. My trans failure was determined to be a factory defect, and at the time it started to go it was only pushing 405 HP at the wheels. There have been other supercharged Marauders with trans failures besides the ones you have mentioned. My trans didnt "blow", it was determined that the front pump failed, causing the catastrophic failure behind it, so we were able to determine that it had nothing to do with the supercharger, and would have happened anyway due to the defective pump. Ford would have reimbursed me for the money i spent repairing it, but they would have had to have noted in OASIS that the Marauder was supercharged, potentially casing warranty pain later on.

[BillyGman]

okay mercman. I'll abide by that. I guess there were many of us who got off-topic here. Thankyou for the warning.

[Marauder]

Please read the FIRST post in this thread. This is not a discussion of anything but the introduction of the Procharger. Not a transmission thread, not a pro/con roots vs centrifugal thread. If you guys want to start a thread about either of the above topics, PLEASE do. If you have any questions pertaining to the Procharger, ask them here. This thread has been so far off track we need a trail of breadcrumbs to find our way back.

Off topic posts will be shipped to the netherworld post-haste

I'm just anxious to see the finished product with price so I can make my final s/c decision. :D

[BillyGman]

thanks for the correction Dave.

[MERCMAN]

you are just one of MANY

[jspradii]

"Methinks he doth protest too much":beatnik:

[BillyGman]

"Methinks he doth protest too much":beatnik:
But wouldn't that be "off-topic"???

[prchrman]

Please develop the Pro Charger because one day in the future my warranty is gonna run out and my well is gonna hit a gusher and I am going to buy meself a Pro Charger...OBTW who cares how it looks after you have been spanked by a SS or 300C...get real...also what car is running the most horses and what SC is it using?...wonder why?...I don't care if it's pink and has Sasson wrote on the side...just let me bust them thar other 4 doors...the need for speed is what interest me in a SC...period...willie

[jspradii]

Well.....Sassoon MIGHT be pushing it.....just a little!!!!!:D

[prchrman]

Well.....Sassoon MIGHT be pushing it.....just a little!!!!!:D

OK...OK...no Sassoon...I got a little hyper waiting for my toenails to dry...willie

[BillyGman]

get real...also what car is running the most horses and what SC is it using?...wonder why?...I don't care if it's pink and has Sasson wrote on the side...just let me bust them thar other 4 doors...the need for speed is what interest me in a SC...period...willie

If the looks of it don't matter to you than that's all good. Because it's potentially your $$. They do matter to me though. And that's because it was MY $$. That's all. No argument there. I also am in no way opposed to another S/Cer kit being offered for the Marauder. And I never said that I was. I've already taken care of the Low-end torque deficiency of my Marauder engine, so I'm all set, and it doesn't matter much to me whether another kit is made available or not. But I'm cedertainly NOT opposed to the idea at all. There's nothing wrong w/that. It's peoples' $$ and the choice of what to do w/it is ours. BTW, just because a car has more PEAK HP than another, doesn't mean that it's faster. Especially if that other car is making more HP at 2,000, 3,000, and 4,000 RPM's respectively. Just something you might want to note. ;)

[Dennis Reinhart]

Billy I was just trying to make a joke so relax, I did not mean to get you all twisted its just to bad this always happens, why cant we just for once have a decent post with out every one getting bent out of shape.

[tmac1337]

It will be interesting to see the final Procharger product. I have the utmost faith in Dennis and Greg that a affordable kit will soon be available for a greater number of people to enjoy. I have no intention of racing my car, I do not even care if it's the fastest thing around. I'll settle for one of the fastest at local stoplights.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I agree Rick!!:

http://www.legalknevil.com/albums/Marauder/anh.jpg


Both kits look good I have said this all along, we are all here to learn and grow as club, there is just no since in arguing or belittling any one kit. I like them all. And I will install any kit my customer wants, and I will go over the pluses and minus associated with each kit so you the customer can better choose what will work for you.

[jstevens]

Nice answer Dennis.
I agree, even though it does resemble a hair dryer (just kidding)
I am evaluating all options, Trilogy, Vortech and soon Procharger and will most likely purchase the one with the most value.

I don't plan on racing but do want to be able to light up the tires at will.

[Tallboy]

Nice answer Dennis.
I agree, even though it does resemble a hair dryer (just kidding)
I am evaluating all options, Trilogy, Vortech and soon Procharger and will most likely purchase the one with the most value.

I don't plan on racing but do want to be able to light up the tires at will.just keep in mind that the one with the most value is not necessarily the one with the lowest price. ;)

[Joe Walsh]

MM&FF Magazine (DEC 04) just did an interesting comparison of the following S/Cs on a Cobra 4.6 4V Engine:
-Eaton 112
-Kenne Bell Twin-Screw
-Vortech
-Twin Turbo
It covers the 'plus' & 'minus' of each style S/C...
(Boy if I could fit a twin turbo system under my MM hood! :D )

[ADE 1000]

Great News!

Dennis Reinhart along with myself and Pro Charger will be teaming up to build this new Blower for the MM. It will be appliacation specific.

The following are a few deatils:

1.The blower will be self contained (no tapping your oil pan)

2.We will use a 3 core air to air intercooler (much eiser to install)

3.It will not be a blow thru design as first thought(Dennis suggested using a draw thru desing because of tunning issues)

What your going to find on this blower compared to the Vortech is that if they both run say 9PSI because of the design of the impeller of the Pro Charger Blower you are going to see much higher torque numbers and about 6/10ths shredded off in the quarter mile. I know this will have to be proved to you guys.

Dennis and myself will be posting photos as we get this going.

Dennis will sell these as long as he is satisfied with the outcome of the blower for the MM.

There is nothing wrong with a Vortech Blower.

This is just another choice and will be less money and easier to install.

I just want you guys to know that the blower will be built for every Day street use.

Most companies would not build a specific blower for the MM because there are only 10K of them out there. This is my best friend that owns Pro Charger and he did not want me to put a vortech on and drive over to his house.That's why this blower is going to be produced.

With Dennis helping out on this, I think we will all be happy with the end results.

Thanks, Greg


Is there an anticipated release date for this kit??

[tmac1337]

Is there an anticipated release date for this kit??

Hopefully 6-8 weeks.

[BillyGman]

Billy I was just trying to make a joke so relax, I did not mean to get you all twisted its just to bad this always happens, why cant we just for once have a decent post with out every one getting bent out of shape.
Yeah,but then in your next post you say that I'm "off base" so first you sound offended, and that you "take pride" in your work, then you say you were just kidding, and then you say that I'm off base. Talk about waffling.

[stevengerard]

I like waffles and Superchargers

[Bigdogjim]

I just think the G-man like to stir the pot. :bs:

[BillyGman]

I just think the G-man like to stir the pot. :bs:
LOL!! Too bad your provocation doesn't work on me. C'mon, you can do better than that, can't you? :rofl:

[Directedby]

I just think the G-man like to stir the pot. :bs:

No kidding.

But to stay on subject I can't wait to see how this works out. I am open to the Pro-Charger option. I would also like to see a Pro Charged car race 1/4 mile some of the pther SC ers. Maybe Billy can take it on?

[martyo]

Public: Pertaining to people as a whole; relating to a nation or community; open to the knowledge of all; generally known. :D

Then the answer would be yes. The question really becomes is "Todd and "the Team" avaialable to the public?" And, I can't be sure of that because last I heard they were starring in Marauder Trek Episodes. :D

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/510/1114scotty1.jpg

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/510/1114mccoy1.jpg

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/510/1114spock.jpg

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/510/1114data1.jpg

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/510/1114jason.jpg

[martyo]

I'm just anxious to see the finished product with price so I can make my final s/c decision. :D

Danny: Why don't you, or anyone else who is interested in a ProCharger, call them direct and ask them what is up with a Marauder kit? That's what I did before bolting up one of their units.....

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

[QUOTE=martyo]Then the answer would be yes. The question really becomes is "Todd and "the Team" avaialable to the public?" [QUOTE]

:rolleyes: WRONG ANSWER ! The question was, " Will this kit be available to the public as a package? "

[Dennis Reinhart]

This is what I know about the Pro Charger kit They have Greggs car as of Monday, I have arranged for Art Car to beef up the Transmission, so just be patient this is not going to happen over night, and we would not want it to, Let them take there time. You have to understand this is a air to air heat exchanger that will require different routing of the intake and exhaust plumbing, we want this kit to look good as well as function perfect, I am sure Gregg will post some up dates as they get along into this project I will call them today and see where they are at.

I have sent Gregg the correct size injectors and the correct Mass Air flow Sensor and an up graded twin fuel pump assembly, and a better fan schroud and Maf adapter along with a SCT tuner cable and all the other items that will be needed to do this kit, we are designing the kit as a draw through which makes for a lot better tuning, along with this I will send a base file to get them started with, he will also install the rear engine cooling kit.

I would like to take a few minutes and go over what we have discussed, we want to make this kit as affordable as we can, I will be a Procharger dealer, so you can buy it from me or any other Procharger dealer. I will offer a group buy to the club on any of the kits I sell. I have done this on many of my other products, With the Procharger kit you can have two versions.

Option 1 will be a tuner kit, with this kit there will be no injectors or Maf or associated hardware, no fuel pump and no tuning. The kit will include an option of polished or satin compressor and it will come with all the mounting hardware and the air to air after cooler and mounting hardware. Also included will be and the inlet and out let piping, in a uncoated version. We will post these prices as soon as possible.

Option 2 will be a turn key kit with all the associated hardware injectors correct Maf associated wiring harness and external IAT sensor and Fuel pump upgrade. All the mounting hardware can be powder coated upon request also included will be a SCT tuner with cable and 24 hour support of this kit, both kits will be at the 8/10 PSI range, of course if there are members that want more boost a smaller pulley can be ordered.

We want all the members to be able to afford the kit of there choice, we are pricing these very conservatively, I will continue to offer my water to air Vortech kit for 5990.00 we are anticipating the Procharger Tuners kit in the 3000.00/ 3500.00 range and the full kit in the 4000.00/ 4500.00 Range, all these prices will be finalized in the next few weeks.

[tmac1337]

Wait!.....What is that noise!.........I think I hear my car slobbering from the garage.

[stevengerard]

We want all the members to be able to afford the kit of there choice, we are pricing these very conservatively, I will continue to offer my water to air Vortech kit for 5990.00 we are anticipating the Procharger Tuners kit in the 3000.00/ 3500.00 range and the full kit in the 4000.00/ 4500.00 Range, all these prices will be finalized in the next few weeks.

Dem der are awesome prices, gee can I Procharge my Vortec

[ADE 1000]

We want all the members to be able to afford the kit of there choice, we are pricing these very conservatively, I will continue to offer my water to air Vortech kit for 5990.00 we are anticipating the Procharger Tuners kit in the 3000.00/ 3500.00 range and the full kit in the 4000.00/ 4500.00 Range, all these prices will be finalized in the next few weeks.

That sounds promising. If I could get the complete kit installed for $5000 or less, it would be hard to resist.

[Joe Walsh]

Yeah,but then in your next post you say that I'm "off base" so first you sound offended, and that you "take pride" in your work, then you say you were just kidding, and then you say that I'm off base. Talk about waffling.

BillyGman, Don't accuse Dennis of pulling a 'Kerry'! :D

[Marauder]

Danny: Why don't you, or anyone else who is interested in a ProCharger, call them direct and ask them what is up with a Marauder kit? That's what I did before bolting up one of their units.....

True...I just may do that. :D

[maraudernkc]

Tmac, The MM is in the shop and should be complete in 2 to 3 weeks. I will have then take some photos of the progress. The SEMA Show starts MOnday and all the major High Performace Manufactuers are settimg up fot that in Vegas.




It will be interesting to see the final Procharger product. I have the utmost faith in Dennis and Greg that a affordable kit will soon be available for a greater number of people to enjoy. I have no intention of racing my car, I do not even care if it's the fastest thing around. I'll settle for one of the fastest at local stoplights.

[maraudernkc]

It will probably be Jan.




Is there an anticipated release date for this kit??

[maraudernkc]

I can assure you that the Pro Charger will have no problem competing performance wise against all others. My main concern is to have a complete kit that has a lower price range. We don't need three $6000.00 kits plus installation.




No kidding.

But to stay on subject I can't wait to see how this works out. I am open to the Pro-Charger option. I would also like to see a Pro Charged car race 1/4 mile some of the pther SC ers. Maybe Billy can take it on?

[HotrodMerc]

SargeantMac, in addition to the by-pass valve on the Eaton as described by BillyG, if you drive a vehicle with a roots and watch the vacuum/boost guage, it is possible to cruise on the highway and stay out of the boost most of the time if you are truly "just cruising". And when you do need to increase throttle to maintain speed, as in going up a milder grade, etc., you might just get into it about 3 or 4 psi, for example. At a level cruise in my 5.0, with 3:08's, my guage shows about 11" of vac. This is with an 8 psi Kenne Bell kit. On a Power Tour I averaged about 16 mpg and got as much as 21.5. It is true that it is VERY easy to get into the boost with the Roots, perhaps moreso with the Autorotor than the Eaton, but maybe not, but if you want to drive it easy you can stay below 4 or 5 psi with decent mileage. As you point out, an advantage to a centrifugal, that you and others here know much more about than me, is that apparently it is possible to run a higher ultimate boost set up with a centrifugal, but still not get into the max. boost even at full throttle, if at lower rpm.
As to engine durability and mileage, it seems that those ultimately depend heavily on the driver, how hard you push the motor, esp. how much time at higher rpm.
If you need or want torque at low rpm, the roots are great. Other than that i imagine any of the above will provide lots of fun as well as performance.

[Zack]

This thread has received more press than our Control Arms.
I just dont know what to say.
Oh Yeah, whats the pinion angle of the car after the blower is installed?

[FordNut]

This thread has received more press than our Control Arms.
I just dont know what to say.
Oh Yeah, whats the pinion angle of the car after the blower is installed?And can I get them powdercoated?

It's somewhat ridiculous how many posts on these long-a$$ threads are off-topic too. Most of them have absolutely nothing to do with the ProCharger system.

[SergntMac]

SargeantMac, in addition to the by-pass valve on the Eaton as described by BillyG...(truncated)
Please read the FIRST post in this thread. This is not a discussion of anything but the introduction of the Procharger. Not a transmission thread, not a pro/con roots vs centrifugal thread. If you guys want to start a thread about either of the above topics, PLEASE do. If you have any questions pertaining to the Procharger, ask them here. This thread has been so far off track we need a trail of breadcrumbs to find our way back.
Ooops...Sorry HotrodMerc.

[merc406]

HotRodMerc, where's Okrahoma?

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

[QUOTE=martyo]Then the answer would be yes. The question really becomes is "Todd and "the Team" avaialable to the public?" And, I can't be sure of that because last I heard they were starring in Marauder Trek Episodes. :D

Whats avaialable ? :cool:

[tmac1337]

I spoke with Greg, the Procharger kit is underway. I have to say I like the Procharger setup from what I have been reading. Procharger blowers are said to operate with very low engine air intake temperatures, and www.procharger.com backs up this claim. The site says the blowers are made with high quality aircraft aluminum and billet impellers, utilizing an air to air intercooler. It looks like Procharger is having a lot of success at the track with the air to air intercooler. Air to air does not require a coolant pump, tubing or resevoir. Why pass air over hot water anyway. Does that make sense to anyone when using a air to water intercooler? I like the fact that the Procharger P-1sc is gear driven, self lubricating, and quiet. No need for oil lines and drilling a hole in the oil pan. Instead it is a self contained unit that uses synthetic oil misting the gears causing less frictional heat. The website states the unit is much cooler than other centrifugal units out there and does not have as much parasitic load, uses less power. The kit seems very promising with a much easier install and dependable operation. I would like to run 8 PSI in my car.



This will be a very interesting kit to evaluate when it is available. Keep this kit coming Dennis and Greg.

[FordNut]

Must not have known the sensitivity of the subject matter, eh?

[tmac1337]

Must not have known the sensitivity of the subject matter, eh?

True that.

[Joe Walsh]

I am amazed at how passionate everyone seems to be about their choice of MM supercharger....Let's not abuse each other over whose S/C we each ultimately decide to use...
The fact that Procharger is developing another MM S/C kit is GREAT!!! MORE CHOICES!!! LOWER COST OPTION!!!
What's the big F'n Deal????
I still want a Trilogy Kit BUT you can be sure that I will thoroughly investigate the Procharger Kit and compare it's Price, Performance, Ease of installation, etc.
If I can buy the Procharger Kit and have enough coin left over to buy Todd's (TCE) big brake kit I'm gonna forego instant low end torque! (Trilogy Kit)

[tmac1337]

Trying to be neutral

[FordNut]

I just wish this thread would pop up to the top with some real info instead of the usual "my blower is better than your blower" bs.

And I chose a ProCharger D1SC with air-to-air intercooler a long time ago. I was planning to do a custom build, but this project should save me considerable time and work. I studied long and hard on all the options available and didn't really fall in love with either of them (KB and SHM are way out of my price range, Pande's kind of fell off the map).

So yep, when it comes time to put up or shut up, I'll have my checkbook out.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Just be patient its in the work I have spoke to Gregg's installer he has the parts needed for this, setup and both Gregg and I are working with Greggs friend, again there is no need for this bickering all we are trying to do is make a afordable kit for the club. if you have no interst in the Procharger Kit, well thats ok, there is no reason, for the sracasim and bickering, we are hoping by mid December we will have a kit ready for the club.

[tmac1337]

I've been putting off charging myself because of price. From the reading I have been doing ref. Procharger with the air to air intercooler and a self oiling unit with no drilling of the pan, I am very interested. Lets be fair here. Procharger is a serious blower contender. If there is going to be an approximate $4K price for a turn key kit, with no reason to believe there will be a quality or reliability issue, I would be crazy not to consider it. The other kits are excellent but pricey. I have put a lot of money into my car already. I'm in the area of watching how much I spend on it now vs. how much I make. I do not care what the kit looks like under the hood. As long as it works and creates horsies and TQ. Polished is neat but again more cash for a look. I have spent most of the money on my car toward performance. And boy does it perform now N/A'ed

[SergntMac]

i'm a "roots type" owner you referred to. i don't give a rat's a$$ how much fuel my car burns or what it costs. you want fuel economy? buy a civic.
I feel I can say this because I bought a MM that was already built. I didn't sweat the choices in power adders, suspension, gearing, or, gauging. Neither did I sweat the bashing that comes along with the brainstorming of such decisions. I simply bought a car, and this is one of the times I am glad I did just buy a car, albiet it's the Kenny Brown Marauder S, serial #1x.

Roots, centrifugal, twin screw, turbo, NOS, whatever...Power adders all have drawbacks too, deal with them, K? Don't make your personal decision an issue all of us have to suffer from. We endure quite enough of bashing here already just from the "benefit/performance" side of the argument.

The "drawback" side is not magically off limits. The Trilogy-roots kit is not the supreme "end all-know all" answer. Likewise, neither is the Reinhart-Vortech kit, or, Kenny Brown's whole car build. The ProCharger kit floating off shore? Well, could be, let's see what unfolds? But, until something does unfold, you are no more right than you are wrong. And, neither am I, nor anyone else posting here.

It's one car we are working on/with, one car produced over 36 months, and now not made anymore. One car, one automobile, and we all get and have the same choices available, and we all get and have the same decisions to make, on how to build our own MMs. This is so cool...Nevermind, you won't get that right now.

You took the Trilogy path, dude, and I respect your decision. But, you are no more right than you are wrong in choosing a roots based blower over the centrifugal. You are no more better off being a Trilogy fan than being a Reinhart fan, no better roots that centrifugal, no better supercharged over NOS, or, Turbocharged. In fact, in a very funny way, dude, you are as funny as the rest of them. You decided to mod your MM with a blower, and to the rest of the "98 percenters" out there who have no clue we exist here, you are as much an odd ball and out in left feild, as anyone else posting here. Right now, you're not laughing, but the rest of the free in the MM owner world hasn't heard our joke...Yet.

We are all looking for the best MM we can have, and we're all just a bit different in how we get that. Think about it? But, while you do, fold it in and zip it up. Most of us got one of them already too...

[SergntMac]

I'm on dial up, and I just spent an hour on the phone with Gordon (Haggis) and lost track here.

Seems a few of y'all pulled back with edits and deleted replys. Sorry, I cannot re-edit my reply around all that, so, my post stands as I spoke it.

Get behind what you believe and back it, or, don't get into the ring, K?

I do not apologize for my position, or, my beliefs, just my timing. I had better things to be doing than crafting my reply.

[MikesMerc]

You took the Trilogy path, dude, and I respect your decision. But, you are no more right than you are wrong in choosing a roots based blower over the centrifugal. You are no more better off being a Trilogy fan than being a Reinhart fan, no better roots that centrifugal, no better supercharged over NOS, or, Turbocharged.

Are you saying that there is no "best" choice for the MM application? That's bunk if you are.

On one hand, variety is the spice of life. If everyone was the same things would indeed be boring. But, on the other, we must be fair to those folks here who have much less hotrod knowledge. To say that any power adder path they take is "A-okay" and just as good as any other path is dead wrong. Nothing...NOTHING...could be worse advice to the newbie and further from the truth.

What I find scary about this board is that everyone is so quick to jump and say "any one of these paths is fine" whenever the debate gets heated. Because that is not true. Sadly, once someone has sunk their hard earned money into an expensive mod its too late. Most folks with less knowledge do not want to hear "hey, just weigh the options and make your choice", they want to know what set of mods will best meet their objectives.

And, when you peel back all the BS, power adder 101 has some pretty straight forward rules of thumb. And the biggest basic rule of thumb for supercharging is that when you are low on cubic inches, and high on wieght, a positive displacement blower is the best choice for that application. Somehow, I get the sneaking feeling that our big MM fit that exact definition.

So, you all can go on about how other blower choices make great options. And how performance will still be great. No one, including me, will debate that if those options are properly set up. But that doesn't make those choices the best option. Why do we ignore such basic power adder basics like what blower works best on a low displacement heavy car? Just so folks who chose another option feel better? Or is it that we dont hurt another vendors feelings?

In my opinion, everyone looking into supercharging their MM would well be advised to get off this site and look around at other sites where folks are not so afraid to express and support basic hot rodding knowledge. Everytime I read a "any one of these blower choices is a good choice" I cringe and think how another member was just short changed on the advice they need.

I am not saying every MM owner should run out and get a Trilogy kit if they want a supercharger. However, they need to know that the positive displacement roots blower in that kit is indeed the best match to their low cubic inch motored heavy car . Now...if the user is willing to sacrfice the best match for other reasons...such as price, wanting to be different, buidling a full on drag car, or whatever...then great! So be it. But lets not be afraid to give these guys the basics they need to hear first. After spending 20 years of my life hot rodding cars, I don't think I've ever met a group of folks so afraid of the truth. Sorry if that sounds negative.

[FordNut]

Are you saying that there is no "best" choice for the MM application? That's bunk if you are.

On one hand, variety is the spice of life. If everyone was the same things would indeed be boring. But, on the other, we must be fair to those folks here who have much less hotrod knowledge. To say that any power adder path they take is "A-okay" and just as good as any other path is dead wrong. Nothing...NOTHING...could be worse advice to the newbie and further from the truth.

What I find scary about this board is that everyone is so quick to jump and say "any one of these paths is fine" whenever the debate gets heated. Because that is not true. Sadly, once someone has sunk their hard earned money into an expensive mod its too late. Most folks with less knowledge do not want to hear "hey, just weigh the options and make your choice", they want to know what set of mods will best meet their objectives.

And, when you peel back all the BS, power adder 101 has some pretty straight forward rules of thumb. And the biggest basic rule of thumb for supercharging is that when you are low on cubic inches, and high on wieght, a positive displacement blower is the best choice for that application. Somehow, I get the sneaking feeling that our big MM fit that exact definition.

So, you all can go on about how other blower choices make great options. And how performance will still be great. No one, including me, will debate that if those options are properly set up. But that doesn't make those choices the best option. Why do we ignore such basic power adder basics like what blower works best on a low displacement heavy car? Just so folks who chose another option feel better? Or is it that we dont hurt another vendors feelings?

In my opinion, everyone looking into supercharging their MM would well be advised to get off this site and look around at other sites where folks are not so afraid to express and support basic hot rodding knowledge. Everytime I read a "any one of these blower choices is a good choice" I cringe and think how another member was just short changed on the advice they need.

I am not saying every MM owner should run out and get a Trilogy kit if they want a supercharger. However, they need to know that the positive displacement roots blower in that kit is indeed the best match to their low cubic inch motored heavy car . Now...if the user is willing to sacrfice the best match for other reasons...such as price, wanting to be different, buidling a full on drag car, or whatever...then great! So be it. But lets not be afraid to give these guys the basics they need to hear first. After spending 20 years of my life hot rodding cars, I don't think I've ever met a group of folks so afraid of the truth. Sorry if that sounds negative.

I disagree and that is a right that I have in this country.

The roots may be best for what YOU want in YOUR heavy, small displacement car, but not necessarily best for what I want in MY heavy, small displacement car.

And I made my decision on which blower to use after visiting many other sites for several months. Expense was not a major issue, as it would have been quite expensive to put the system together myself.

[prchrman]

when at SSHS4 I noticed I was the only one with a pinstripe...I knew that not only did my MM look better than everyone else, by far, I was sure the pinstripe was good for about a 10.9 second run...I did not run it as I did not want to be asked a bunch of stupid questions like- how did you get it to run so fast, man where did you get that pinstripe, does the pinstripe have good bottom end, does the pinstripe pull hard all the way through the run, how much boost is that thing running, etc, etc etc...while youz guyz are arguing over SCs I added the ultimate power adder...next on the list---slicks, pinstripe is not hooking and SSs taking me off the line...willie...yeah I know, I am a jerk

[stevengerard]

OK, I'll bite, did tons of research, spoke to drag racers, went to the track, talked to engine builders, bought DR's Vortech. Would have looked at the procharger as well. But agree with Mac, I have tried 3 different types of S/C MMs and they all worked for me.

[MikesMerc]

I disagree and that is a right that I have in this country.


Yep, you sure do. No one argues that. Just be well aware your that your "choice" of best fit for the application goes against conventional wisdom. Any half way decent book on supercharging, or discussion with those folks who have been at it for more than a few years, will tell you that.

But, hey, enjoy your mighty fine "choice":D

[MikesMerc]

OK, I'll bite, did tons of research, spoke to drag racers, went to the track, talked to engine builders, bought DR's Vortech. Would have looked at the procharger as well. But agree with Mac, I have tried 3 different types of S/C MMs and they all worked for me.

Then you have little discerning taste in power delivery...and that's fine too. Anyone with any decent experience with forced induction knows the power delivery of a roots vs centrifugal blower is entirely different and quite noticeable by the seat of the pants. A simple dyno graph can easily prove it as well.

Then again, I can also site tons of material from forced induction articles to back up the point about positive displacment blowers for heavy cars lacking cubic inches, but...hey, what's the point right? As I said, this forum has brainwashed itself to beleive things that run directly accross the grain of conventional wisdom for whatever reason. So if you want to beleive stuff that is contrary to the experience and results of others in the hobby for decades of racing just so that you feel better about your purchase, or you don't hurt anyone's feelings, then so be it.

[stevengerard]

Disagree with you Mike, I've said a bunch of times right here on this site the Trilogy is faster off the line the Vortech never stops pulling. I've read many articles that say what you said - heavy cars with small displacement benefit from a roots type blower - I still perfered the centrifigal. They both are great power adders and it comes done to MY personal preference. That's the same reason I have an MM instead of a 300C and a 442 W-30 instead of a GSX. This will never be a black or white topic always grey.

[David Morton]

I've been back and forth on this :Offtopic: topic myself and being no slouch in the tune-up department, I can see the pros and cons of this roots vs centrifugal debate, and I think it is a matter personal preference.

On the one hand, a positive displacement blower is guaranteed low RPM torque, instant throttle response with a vengance, but the drawback is a dropping torque curve and high heat which forces the tuners to dial in tons of fuel in order to fend off detonation. This low RPM torque would seem to be the setup for the street but my car is frying the tires as it is N/A! Don't get me wrong, the Nitto's will cure that soon enough, but what's all this talk about the car being a dog off the line? I remember driving a Buick Grand National when I worked for Buick and it was a dog off the line, but once that turbo kicked in, watch out!

So I see "on the other hand", yeah our engine is only 281 cu/in and the low RPM torque is quite lacking compared to the LT1, but it is a 4 valve dual overhead cam engine, and it loves to wind! The centrifugal may not have the instant throttle response of the roots, but it doesn't make as much heat, handles the heat it makes more efficiently, is therefore able to utilize more boost safely with less fuel, makes that boost at higher RPMs where it's more tractable, and is more streetable from the perspective of highway driving where you don't need the boost.

Right now, it looks to me like the choice is, if you want the best 60' times, go with the Trilogy and pay up at the gas pumps, if you want the best trap speeds, get the Vortech and pay a little less at the pumps. Match 'em up at the dragstrip and you'll have the classic race. Trilogy car holeshots with the Vortech car catching up at the end and...a tie?

I dream of a twin turbo setup like the one Gale Banks is making for those mouse motors. Log manifolds mounting high efficiency turbos with 3" exhausts each. He proved you can make a turbo system with almost no lag. Then you could have the best of both worlds.

As it is now, I'm leaning toward Dennis' system, and thinking about how I could set-up a nitrous-shot to switch on 'enable' and then it only shoots when from a dead stop I go WOT, just long enough to get me those Trilogy-like 60' times. But that would only be for "emergencies". (right) :D

[BillyGman]

I'm going to try to avoid adding to this roots vs. centrifugal debate on this particular thread since it was originally started to announce a vendor's new offering which happens to be a centrifugal design. I just want to clear up some misconceptions about a roots type blower being less fuel efficient than a centrifugal design. Where are you getting that info from David? The Eaton/Trilogy (roots) S/Cer uses a bypass valve which is always in play when you're not into the boost whether that's on the highway or side street. It isn't activated nor de-activated by engine RPM level, but rather by throttle position.

Furthermore if you want the best of both worlds, then you should hope for a twin-screw S/Cer design since that is superior to both the roots type as well as the centrifugal type S/Cers. However that's water under the bridge just like your point is about twin turbos is since there aren't any twin turbos nor twin screw S/Cers available for the Marauder. And as far as having a shot of nitrous oxide as soon as you come off the line to enhance your 60' time as you've stated, that would likely put more strain on the engine having the nitrous kick in at anything under 2500 RPM's than anything else would. Which is something you probably wouldn't want with a Marauder engine that has a stock botton end.

And as far as your Marauder "frying the tires" as is w/out a S/Cer, all I can say is no way does it smoke em like a S/Ced Marauder does. My Marauder used to spin the tires from a dead punch before it was S/Ced, but only through first gear, and a slight amount after it hit second gear, but the tires would stop spinning very shortly after the transmission hit second gear, and that was w/the factory stock tires, and in cold whether. But w/the factory stock tires on, my Marauder now that it's S/Ced can spin the tires through first gear, and all the way through second gear until the transmission hits third gear which is when the tires stop spinning. All that w/out using the brake pedal at all.

[bigslim]

All I am going to say is the reason I will be getting the Trilogy setup is because I want the look of "factory installed" and the lowend torque. I will not be building my car for racing as some of you will. I want a car that is fast off the line and looks good. The blower and a new air induction (Pro-M) with a carbonfiber tube is about the extent I will be doing. Already have a 410 so I will be getting the widened wheels. That is all since I want to do other mods to the exterior and interior. My car will be more for show than go. People, choose what you want, you are paying for it. We will see how they all run next year at MVIII.

[martyo]

As it is now, I'm leaning toward Dennis' system, and thinking about how I could set-up a nitrous-shot to switch on 'enable' and then it only shoots when from a dead stop I go WOT, just long enough to get me those Trilogy-like 60' times. But that would only be for "emergencies". (right) :D

David: I think you are on the money here. As for spraying the car in this fashion, use a "window" switch and you are in bidness. That's what I am working on now. Let me know if you need part numbers.....

[tmac1337]

All the points made about a roots and centrifugal are valid. However, if a kit comes out @ $4K, it will be a hot seller. Yeah, it may not have the instantaneous low end torque but it will have a lot of low end torque none the less. Centrifugal blowers have a lot of advantages as well, and for $4k, why not. Most of us, even on this site, do not race their cars, just want a fast street car. For that reason a kit that costs $7500 approximately said and done is a little much. A more serious enthusiust who is looking for great numbers will spend more.

I am happier with my car right now than I have ever been. I am looking for a moderately ranged blower for it. I'm not looking for engine problems down the line cause I maxed out my cars capabilities. Centrufugal blowers make safe horsepower. If one does not become available for a decent price then I'll stay N/A'ed, whatever.

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

The Trilogy-roots kit is not the supreme "end all-know all" answer.
:confused: ITS NOT ????????? :confused:

[martyo]

when at SSHS4 I noticed I was the only one with a pinstripe...I knew that not only did my MM look better than everyone else, by far, I was sure the pinstripe was good for about a 10.9 second run...I did not run it as I did not want to be asked a bunch of stupid questions like- how did you get it to run so fast, man where did you get that pinstripe, does the pinstripe have good bottom end, does the pinstripe pull hard all the way through the run, how much boost is that thing running, etc, etc etc...while youz guyz are arguing over SCs I added the ultimate power adder...next on the list---slicks, pinstripe is not hooking and SSs taking me off the line...willie...yeah I know, I am a jerk

:rofl:

Willie: I am just sorry we didn't get a chance to chat more face to face at SSHS4. Maybe in April at the FFW? Just don't tell Todd's wife I plan on spending the weekend!

[FiveO]

Each supercharger has its pros and cons.....choose the one you want.

I am really against "which style is better" information. People can choose what they want based on their personal opinions.

What someone posts on the internet isn't going to change peoples mind.

I for one am really happy there are currently 2, soon to be more, choices for the Marauder....the more the merrier!

[maraudernkc]

I have attached a photo of a Pro Charger kit that we are starting with.

This is only what we are starting with. The mounting brackets are the same as our motor however all the Tubing from the intake to the blower and intercooler will have to be hand made. The car will be done in two weeks and than we will Dyno the kit and tune it properly and test it for driveability and performance. After that is done we will than cost out the kit and come up with a group price for anyone interested.

I feel that I have been more than nice and fair about all other kits out there. I have not said one bad word about any other kit on the market but it seems like a select few of the Trilogy guys keep bashing centrifical blowers.

You guys have the greatest blower since sliced bread. So why do you give a darn about someone having a centrifical blower on there MM?

From reading this thread it appears that our MM are too heavy for a centrifugal blower. so if any one is interested in Pro Charger you will probably have to take out your interior and your spare tire to make this blower work. I hope that won't stop you from considering this blower as one of your options.:beer:

[duhtroll]

I am still interested in this kit, even though it's a total waste of time and money and it will never be a Trilogy, centrifugal blowers suck, and mine will never be as prodigious so I might as well sell my Marauder. :rolleyes:

Keep us apprised and thanks for the work!

-A

[prchrman]

:rofl:

Willie: I am just sorry we didn't get a chance to chat more face to face at SSHS4. Maybe in April at the FFW? Just don't tell Todd's wife I plan on spending the weekend!

No problem Martin, I saw you were focused on the issues at hand...at least you did not pout like I do when things do not go as I had planned...I am gonna try to be at FFW...only 1.5 hours from home...waiting for you to get your ride running so I can run my pinstripe against some serious comp...update us on some times when available...ok...willie...

[stevengerard]

I am still interested in this kit, even though it's a total waste of time and money and it will never be a Trilogy, centrifugal blowers suck, and mine will never be as prodigious so I might as well sell my Marauder. :rolleyes:

Keep us apprised and thanks for the work!

-A

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[MARAUDER S/C #5]

I am still interested in this kit, even though it's a total waste of time and money and it will never be a Trilogy, centrifugal blowers suck, and mine will never be as prodigious so I might as well sell my Marauder. :rolleyes:
Well said, for once I agree with you...............:D

[maraudernkc]

most centrifical blowers don't suck they blow!:banana:




I am still interested in this kit, even though it's a total waste of time and money and it will never be a Trilogy, centrifugal blowers suck, and mine will never be as prodigious so I might as well sell my Marauder. :rolleyes:

Keep us apprised and thanks for the work!

-A

[Bradley G]

You Guys Slay me!!:lol: :rofl: :tmi: :bows:

[Badger]

is interested in the Pro-charger kit. Standing by.

[MERCMAN]

I have attached a photo of a Pro Charger kit that we are starting with.

This is only what we are starting with. The mounting brackets are the same as our motor however all the Tubing from the intake to the blower and intercooler will have to be hand made. The car will be done in two weeks and than we will Dyno the kit and tune it properly and test it for driveability and performance. After that is done we will than cost out the kit and come up with a group price for anyone interested.

I feel that I have been more than nice and fair about all other kits out there. I have not said one bad word about any other kit on the market but it seems like a select few of the Trilogy guys keep bashing centrifical blowers.

You guys have the greatest blower since sliced bread. So why do you give a darn about someone having a centrifical blower on there MM?

From reading this thread it appears that our MM are too heavy for a centrifugal blower. so if any one is interested in Pro Charger you will probably have to take out your interior and your spare tire to make this blower work. I hope that won't stop you from considering this blower as one of your options.:beer:


Don't let narrow minds dissuade you at all, there is great interest in this blower and no matter what roots people say, some of us find this within our budget, our needs, and our power hunger. Keep us up to date and THANKS!!!! :up:

[tmac1337]

That's a great picture of the Procharger Kit. I noticed that the kit comes with a rear tag bracket. That must be for owners of other blower brands/types to read the "Procharger" name off the rear as the car smokes by them.

[Smokie]

I am pleased that there are choices, and that the cost issue is being addressed....competition is good for us the owners. I understand that once you have spent your several thousand dollars on the flavor of your choice you feel compelled to defend your choice.

It is proper to discuss the pro's and con's of any mod. but this roots vs. centrifugal war....reminds me of a political thread. For the record I prefer the roots kit, because to me it is a thing of beauty...however my eyes which are still connected to my brain tell me that the fastest 60' time of any MM. is not a roots blower, so the lack of low end torque is not holding water where it counts. I was at Indy and if you were not, PM me and I will tell you what I saw...it may surprise you. :D

[maraudernkc]

Thanks Mercman!




Don't let narrow minds dissuade you at all, there is great interest in this blower and no matter what roots people say, some of us find this within our budget, our needs, and our power hunger. Keep us up to date and THANKS!!!! :up:

[maraudernkc]

Smokie, I agree with you the Roots blower is a handsome blower and does work well. I am not in a political war with the roots guys. It just seems that some roots guys feel there is no other SC for the MM other than the Trilogy that works well and that just is not the case.




I am pleased that there are choices, and that the cost issue is being addressed....competition is good for us the owners. I understand that once you have spent your several thousand dollars on the flavor of your choice you feel compelled to defend your choice.

It is proper to discuss the pro's and con's of any mod. but this roots vs. centrifugal war....reminds me of a political thread. For the record I prefer the roots kit, because to me it is a thing of beauty...however my eyes which are still connected to my brain tell me that the fastest 60' time of any MM. is not a roots blower, so the lack of low end torque is not holding water where it counts. I was at Indy and if you were not, PM me and I will tell you what I saw...it may surprise you. :D

[SergntMac]

I am pleased that there are choices, and that the cost issue is being addressed....competition is good for us the owners. I understand that once you have spent your several thousand dollars on the flavor of your choice you feel compelled to defend your choice. It is proper to discuss the pro's and con's of any mod. but this roots vs. centrifugal war....reminds me of a political thread. For the record I prefer the roots kit, because to me it is a thing of beauty...however my eyes which are still connected to my brain tell me that the fastest 60' time of any MM. is not a roots blower, so the lack of low end torque is not holding water where it counts. I was at Indy and if you were not, PM me and I will tell you what I saw...it may surprise you. :D
Please post it in the Supercharger thread, Javier, I just added something on 0-60 times myself.

I feel kind of neutral on this stuff, my MM may be supercharged, but I didn't choose anything. So, in my mind, I'm not defending my choice, but searching for all the facts. It's even-steven, let the supporting facts be heard. Agreed, heard elsewhere, and not in this ProCharger thread. I'll try to leave this alone now.

[gonzo50]

That's a great picture of the Procharger Kit. I noticed that the kit comes with a rear tag bracket. That must be for owners of other blower brands/types to read the "Procharger" name off the rear as the car smokes by them.
And another one "Bites The Dust". :burn:
Bring it on !:duel:

[MikesMerc]

Disagree with you Mike, I've said a bunch of times right here on this site the Trilogy is faster off the line the Vortech never stops pulling. I've read many articles that say what you said - heavy cars with small displacement benefit from a roots type blower - I still perfered the centrifigal. They both are great power adders and it comes done to MY personal preference. That's the same reason I have an MM instead of a 300C and a 442 W-30 instead of a GSX. This will never be a black or white topic always grey.


Fair enough. As long as those members with more experience help the less experienced members by being honest about what conventional hot rod wisdon applies, then all is well. As long as we can admit that, with all else being equal, a roots blower is the better match for the heavy weight low cube MM than we are providing real knowledge to other members. That said, there are indeed other things that may come into play that may sway a member to choose another blower type such as intended use (street vs strip), price point, other mods (gearing, TC, etc).

I am NOT bashing centrifugal blowers. I have had two centrifugally blown mustangs and LOVED them! Please folks, don't misunderstand what I am saying.

[FordNut]

As long as we can admit that, with all else being equal, a roots blower is the better match for the heavy weight low cube MM than we are providing real knowledge to other members.
Never gonna happen.

[MikesMerc]

Never gonna happen.

Hey, like I said, living in denial of conventional hot rod wisdom is everyone's right :)

[Zack]

Hey, like I said, living in denial of conventional hot rod wisdom is everyone's right :)


In case you forgot, a true hot rodder works on his own car.

Pardon me while I go clean under my finger nails.

[BillyGman]

In case you forgot, a true hot rodder works on his own car.

Pardon me while I go clean under my finger nails.
Oh, well now that reply just puts everything in perspective as to what mods are best for any certain application. What a revealation!!

[prchrman]

Oh, well now that reply just puts everything in perspective as to what mods are best for any certain application. What a revealation!!

Revealation...that's what happened with Janet Jackson...willie

[MikesMerc]

In case you forgot, a true hot rodder works on his own car.

Pardon me while I go clean under my finger nails.

You make me laugh Zack. I've been turning wreches on cars since before you were old enough do drive....lol, maybe even before you were born.

LOL...the first 2 blower installations I had on my mustangs were indeed installed by myself as well as various other mods. Not mention the first complete restoration of my 65 Olds Cutlass was done 100% by my own hands before you were out of elementry school..lol.

The difference is now that I have a family and a real job I can afford to pay someone to do it for me. Perhaps when you get a bit older you might be able to do that to and you'll be able to keep your finger nails clean.

[FordNut]

You make me laugh Zack. I've been turning wreches on cars since before you were old enough do drive....lol, maybe even before you were born.

LOL...the first 2 blower installations I had on my mustangs were indeed installed by myself as well as various other mods. Not mention the first complete restoration of my 65 Olds Cutlass was done 100% by my own hands before you were out of elementry school..lol.

The difference is now that I have a family and a real job I can afford to pay someone to do it for me. Perhaps when you get a bit older you might be able to do that to and you'll be able to keep your finger nails clean.
You make me laugh, Mike. I've been hotrodding cars since before you were born. I've probably forgotten more than you'll ever know.

See how stupid that sounds.

[bigslim]

This is in the early stages of getting ugly.

[FiveO]

Our cars are rare....any s/c kits that become available...be appreciative.

To each their own....! Pick what you want...no sense arguing.

[BillyGman]

You make me laugh, Mike. I've been hotrodding cars since before you were born. I've probably forgotten more than you'll ever know.

See how stupid that sounds.Only if you take it out of context as you have, and don't consider the post that evoked that reply. "Stupid"??? So now we're resorting to name calling? C,mon FN. I know you're capable of better than that. You've contributed so much to this board. I remember that great Kooks Header installation thread that you had so much helpful input on as well as others. Somehow I cannot link your above comments w/the valuable input you've had in the past (no joke!!)

[Smokie]

Billy, Fordnut is great guy and a straight shooter, not trying to speak for him, but I do understand his frustration. He didn't call anyone stupid, he gave an example of a type of response that provides nothing positive....yes there has been responses on both sides of the issue that were best left untyped....why not contribute and help without the putdown. I hope all involved understand what I am trying to do here.:)

[BillyGman]

Billy, Fordnut is great guy
I don't dispute that, and never did.

[FordNut]

Billy, Fordnut is great guy and a straight shooter, not trying to speak for him, but I do understand his frustration. He didn't call anyone stupid, he gave an example of a type of response that provides nothing positive....yes there has been responses on both sides of the issue that were best left untyped....why not contribute and help without the putdown. I hope all involved understand what I am trying to do here.:)
Javier, you get it... I'm not calling anyone names, simply pointing out and emphasizing a type of response that is unnecessary and out of place in the discussion thread.

And yeah, there are others out there that have been racing and hotrodding since before I was born, too. Doesn't mean anything at all in the context of this debate.

On the other hand, the comment about hotrodders working on their own cars doesn't really have anything to do with the subject matter either. I used to, as did many others here, but lots of us have gotten to the point in our lives that we don't have the time to do our own wrenching. What's wrong with paying somebody else to do it if you can afford to?

[BillyGman]

I respect your latest reply Fordnut. I know you don't need my approval, but I'm simply giving credit where it's due, and it IS due to you here. ;)

[Bradley G]

Yeah ,
Procharger pictures......They are awsome!!
Bradley G

[MikesMerc]

You make me laugh, Mike. I've been hotrodding cars since before you were born. I've probably forgotten more than you'll ever know.

See how stupid that sounds.


No, actually your point is lost somewhere:confused:

Zack's comment to me proved that he knew nothing about me nor my background. I haven't posted anything towards your background so your comment is completely out of context.

Zack went personal on this one first becasue he just doesn't like what i have to say. i suppose i am just guilty of a bad follow up:)

[merc]

You smell that? Do you smell that?... BFG Rubber, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of BFG Rubber in the morning. You know, one time we raced against Impala SS owners, for twelve hours. When it was all over I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' F body. The smell, you know that BFG Rubber smell, over the whole track. Smelled like... victory. Someday this supercharger war's gonna end...
:banana2:

[MM03MOK]

Please keep this thread on-topic - ProCharger Blower. Feel free, as you all have, to discuss Superchargers in the other ongoing thread. TNX

[maraudernkc]

Just a quick update!

The Intercooler is mounted in behind the grille and looks great. The blower is mounted and they are routing the tubing. The MAF will remain on the drivers side which is good and we are making a nice nice aluminim piece that will go where the stock air box was and that's where the great big K&N filter will sit. I will post some pics on Sunday.

Thanks, Greg

[FiveO]

Good luck Greg...can't wait to see the progress!

:up:

[stevengerard]

Just a quick update!

The Intercooler is mounted in behind the grille and looks great. The blower is mounted and they are routing the tubing. The MAF will remain on the drivers side which is good and we are making a nice nice aluminim piece that will go where the stock air box was and that's where the great big K&N filter will sit. I will post some pics on Sunday.

Thanks, Greg

So with this kit instead of an intercooler (or is it aftercooler) going there it keeps the airbox? And this needs to be aluminum because of the increased PSI? Just trying to understand how these different systems work. Would the filter be before the procharger or after? Can't wait to see pics, you must be psyched seeing it come together.

[maraudernkc]

No the aluminum will act more as a heat shield to keep warm air from the motor from being sucked thru the K&N. Cool air =HP




So with this kit instead of an intercooler (or is it aftercooler) going there it keeps the airbox? And this needs to be aluminum because of the increased PSI? Just trying to understand how these different systems work. Would the filter be before the procharger or after? Can't wait to see pics, you must be psyched seeing it come together.

[maraudernkc]

I saw your photos and noticed that we both have the same Alpine head unit with XM. Is your display hard to read during the Day? Mine is.




Good luck Greg...can't wait to see the progress!

:up:

[FiveO]

Yup...it is tough to read.

I have to lean forward a bit when its really sunny out.

Its not seated right in the dash right now...I'm going to pull everything apart over the winter sometime and re-seat the head unit. Its not off by much though.

[Jerry Barnes]

Jerry, I just want you to know that I think you have a great kit for the MM.
I have never said anything bad about your kit. Now I do not agree that your kit is the best for the MM but that as we know is a matter of opnion and this is the good ole USA. It's also hard to belive that you have sold 60 kits at $6000.00 = $360,000.00 and not made any money but it's your business. I know that everyone that has one of your kits for the MM is 100% happy with there choice but the same goes for the DR kit those people are 100% happy also. The reason for the Pro Charger kit is simple it works and it will be a complete kit for $4000.00 to $4500.00. Not everyone has 6K to spend or is willing to pay 6K and I am not saying that your kit is not worth 6K. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your roots and I am centrifical it does not mean that we can't all get along. I do agree with you about some people saying things in the heat of the moment need to try and keep a handle on it.

Take care, Greg(maraudernkc)

Maraudernkc,

I respect your opinion and I don't think that you can make a bad decision. They are all good products. You know your driving requirements better then anyone, so the choice you make is good for you.

Enjoy the ride. See you at the next Marauder Round Up. Remember, be safe and keep the rubber side down!

Sincerely,

Jerry Barnes

[TooManyFords]

I love reading these old supercharger threads!

[cer0413]

I love reading these old supercharger threads!
I missed some good threads :(