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Jerry Barnes
11-13-2004, 03:15 PM
Wow! You don't get on the site for a few weeks and all hell brakes out! This is my second attempt to respond to this thread. I lost the first one! Da%&! If I can make a few points:

1. We need to move off this discussion. It is great to have choices, I think everyone agrees with that statement. But, we keep rehashing the same topics. I would like to recommend to Logan to post all of the articles that people have submitted about supercharging your car. Mike Z. was right when he referred people to the MM&FF issue. They spent a lot of time telling everyone the pros and cons of each approach. Go read the article. Several other people have taken the time to post factual articles about this topic. Post the articles and tell new members to read and make up their own minds.

2. We are an Engineering Company first and foremost! We are not a Speed Shop. We have worked with Ford, GM and other auto companies in supercharging their vehicles. These companies have spend thousands of man hours and hundreds of millions of dollars researching this topic and look at what they do. Ford uses Eaton Superchargers on the Cobra Mustang, Ford F150 Lightning, Thunderbird SC, Harley Truck. Ford uses a Lysholm supercharger made by Eaton on the Ford GT. GM uses Eaton supercharges on their production applications. They all use turbo chargers for small vehicle applications. But, the message should be pretty clear to everyone by now. These companies spend hugh amounts of money on research. What do they use?????? And is this a race car or a daily driver???????

3. I have had the opportunity to work with some of the brightest engineers in the automotive industry. Some of those people are Trilogy engineers. People that eat and sleep cars and performance. They have Masters degrees and Doctorates in engineering. After all of the research is done, they recommend solutions, based on a variety of criteria, the best S/C based on the intended use. That is one of the big reasons we have selected the roots type system for our package. Not that the others are wrong, its just not what we would use for this application. Small displacement engines, large cars, lots of torque needed, reliable, cost effective, etc.

4. I will not apologize for the cost of our kit! It is one of the best quality performance upgrades you can buy! Just ask the Ford Technicians, that have installed them, what they think. I have been selling this kit for 1 year and we have sold over 60 of them. To date, I have not made one penny in profit from this product! My accountant and CPA call this project a "HOBBY" for me! We anticipate breaking even some time next year, I hope! But, this project has given me and my staff more joy and excitement then most of the other things we do. We are CAR PEOPLE and sometimes we think with our emotions and not our heads. If we had approached this project with our thinking caps on, we never would have done it! So, for the person that made the comment in another thread that he was going to turn us in to the Better Business Bureau for charging too much for our kits, my response to him is "Keep your day job of pumping gas" and leave the difficult supercharging decisions to the educated.

5. For those that have ever dealt with me or my staff, you know that we are not high pressure sales people. If you like our product, buy it, and you will get some of the best service in the business, I promise. For those that prefer something else, I look forward to seeing you at the next Marauder Round Up!

6. For Logan and Mary, I would like to ask a favor. Dave Popovich, Rick, Mike Z. and others. Theyare my friends and customers. Please do not ban them from this site. They are very loyal to Trilogy and we are very loyal to them! Sometimes emotions get the best of everyone. I have seen it many times and we all get over it. It's a good web site and you folks do a great job of keeping it well run. I would much prefer to see their comments edited, then ban them from the site.

7. To everyone, if you have emotionally charged opinions, use the private messaging feature and keep it private.

Finally, post the supercharger comparison articles and let's get off this topic once and for all!!!!

Sincerely,

Jerry Barnes

bigslim
11-13-2004, 03:42 PM
I'll second that Jerry!!

MikesMerc
11-13-2004, 03:53 PM
Well said Jerry. Thanks for the nice, calm, on point post.

I second what you said about banning. We may have some emotional outbursts coming from some very enthusiastic members, but at least thr trouble stems from enthusiasm about our hobby. In Dave's specific case I think he has paid the price because he was the last one standing when the music stopped. He was obviously provoked on a very emotional topic. That should be considered.

Anyway, keep us posted on the Procharger kit. Choice is always good.

MikesMerc
11-13-2004, 04:19 PM
Not worth wasting the words....

bigslim
11-13-2004, 04:22 PM
Well martyo, my company will do about 120 million in sales this year. We only get about 4% of that but I know how to run a business. I don't appreiacte the personal attack. I would have never said anything to Jerry but he brought up not making any money and I did not have any tears to shed. Let's face it if you run a business you are there to make money.

Take care, Greg:banned:
There is price of development, overhead, employees, insurance and marketing. I can believe that he has not made money on them. Anyway, let's get turn this in an arguement on who makes money or not.

MarauderMark
11-13-2004, 04:43 PM
I wonder why this thread went as long as it did w/o being closed? i mean ive seen threads closed for alot less said than this one . :dunno:

Jerry you are truly one smooth dude!!My hat's off to ya buddy..
Maybe have a specail place for getting out the **** .a thread were anything goes..Charge for it.. :D

Petrograde
11-13-2004, 05:28 PM
...another S/C thread bites the dust

BillyGman
11-13-2004, 05:50 PM
.

2. We are an Engineering Company first and foremost! We are not a Speed Shop.Good point, and one that's very relavent!!!
4. I will not apologize for the cost of our kit! It is one of the best quality performance upgrades you can buy!I agree.
5. For those that have ever dealt with me or my staff, you know that we are not high pressure sales people.NOT in the least. Another excellent point!!!
Sincerely,

Jerry BarnesI've never had the opportunity to meet Jerry Barnes face to face since I live far away from his business. Perhaps some day I will. I have spoken w/him on the phone, and have exchanged several e-mails w/him, and I've found him to be the classiest, and most candid person I've ever done business with!!!

maraudernkc
11-13-2004, 06:43 PM
BillyGman, I have not met Jerry and I do not doubt what you say is true. He makes a great kit for the MM. It's just too bad that he is loosing money selling them.




I've never had the opportunity to meet Jerry Barnes face to face since I live far away from his business. Perhaps some day I will. I have spoken w/him on the phone, and have exchanged several e-mails w/him, and I've found him to be the classiest, and most candid person I've ever done business with!!!

maraudernkc
11-13-2004, 06:47 PM
Jerry, LIke I said before I have never bad mouthed you or your kit for the MM. I think it's a well thought out kit that works very well and it's nice that you can come on this site and be civilized. I look forward to meeting you.

Best Regards, Greg



Maraudernkc,

I respect your opinion and I don't think that you can make a bad decision. They are all good products. You know your driving requirements better then anyone, so the choice you make is good for you.

Enjoy the ride. See you at the next Marauder Round Up. Remember, be safe and keep the rubber side down!

Sincerely,

Jerry Barnes

BillyGman
11-13-2004, 06:56 PM
I think that what most people don't understand about Trilogy Motorsports is that they are an engineering company as Jerry indicated, and their Supercharger kit project was by no means their bread and butter. A number of companies (including Ford) have hired them for their business needs. They're an international company that employs 90 people. Trilogy Motorsports is no joke. They're not some little Mom & Pop business. My point is, that although they put a good deal of time and work into the engineering and developement of their Supercharger kit, the survival and/or success of their company is NOT dependent on their Supercharger sales.

MENINBLK
11-13-2004, 07:00 PM
Mac,

Thank you for the very simple explanation.
It was right on and explained the differences very clearly.

I have a question here...

I'm not the smartest guy here, but I want to bring this up...

Since a Roots type blower is full on, and the cetrifugal is passive at higher rpms,
how difficult is it to manage fuel delivery on each type ?
I would imagine that since the roots type is full on, once the fuel rate
is determined and set, it is pretty much straight forward.
But with the cetrifugal being variable, you should need a much better
and more complex fuel management system, correct ?

BillyGman
11-13-2004, 07:08 PM
Since a Roots type blower is full on, and the cetrifugal is passive at higher rpms,
how difficult is it to manage fuel delivery on each type ?
I would imagine that since the roots type is full on, once the fuel rate
is determined and set, it is pretty much straight forward.
But with the cetrifugal being variable, you should need a much better
and more complex fuel management system, correct ?Just to clarify the roots S/Cer being "full on" theory, I want to point out that the Eaton S/Cer used in the Trilogy kit has been equipped with a bypass valve for a number of years now, which is activated and de-activated by throttle position. Therefore at lesser throttle positions the engine is NOT into the boost pressure at all.

The big differnce between the delivery of boost pressure between the two types of systems is that the roots type system gives you all the boost at full throttle regardless of engine RPM, and the centrifugal system gives you part of the boost pressure at low RPM's, and continues to increase the boost pressure as the RPM's climb.

Logan
11-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Thanks for taking the time to comment Jerry.



1. We need to move off this discussion. It is great to have choices, I think everyone agrees with that statement. But, we keep rehashing the same topics. I would like to recommend to Logan to post all of the articles that people have submitted about supercharging your car.

Definately, off the discussion! People, you're all intelligent enough to make your own decisions. As for rounding up all the articles, good lord, I'd be here for a week. We have a search engine on the site, folks, USE it!!!



4. I will not apologize for the cost of our kit! It is one of the best quality performance upgrades you can buy!
You shouldn't have to. The in-bred's who complain are complaining because they can't afford it. Well, maybe they should be driving a Focus, not a marauder. Anyway, The trilogy kit is better than OEM quality and outstanding in all respects. Jerry and his crew have have nothing to apologize for, especially price. Rest assured, it would've been more expensive had I of done it.




6. For Logan and Mary, I would like to ask a favor. Dave Popovich, Rick, Mike Z. and others. Theyare my friends and customers. Please do not ban them from this site. They are very loyal to Trilogy and we are very loyal to them! Sometimes emotions get the best of everyone. I have seen it many times and we all get over it. It's a good web site and you folks do a great job of keeping it well run. I would much prefer to see their comments edited, then ban them from the site.

The site has rules. I won't apologize or change them for anyone. #1 rule, don't turn your personal attacks on the site admins, guaranteed result there. Temporary bans are just that. A cooling off period, he who can't post can't piss me off. I usually reserve temporary bans for long-time members that would've gotten new users banned permanently.

I can appreciate that folks get emotionally charged, but there are rules. Do unto others as you'd have done to you. Folks who open their mouths in derogatory ways or against the spirit of the site will accept the consequences for their own actions.

We generally edit until it turns personal and a request to stop has been ignored or the personal attack proliferates into multiple threads in a short period of time.



7. To everyone, if you have emotionally charged opinions, use the private messaging feature and keep it private.

Note that use of the PM system is still subject to site rules, if we get complaints of abuse of the pm's, they'll be acted on just as well.

That being said, this thread is closed. Jerry posted some awesome comments and I thank him for that.

Note to all, if you're even thinking about posting inflammatory or personal attacks regarding the supercharger discussions, in a word, don't. My patience is all but run out. Bans resulting from conduct unbecoming in the next few days will result in alot more drastic action.

All of you calm down and go spend some time with your families dammit.