More Crown Vic PI bad press...

[03 Merc]

More legal troubles for Ford and the Panther platform..

http://www.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle .jhtml?storyID=2136098&ric=F&infotype=news&compname=FORD+MOTOR+CO

I guess the test results, showing the car exceeds federal standards, weren't good enough.. What is the story on the group filing the suit?

[SergntMac]

I've heard of the NAPO before, it fashions itself to be an "umbrella," offering to tie together the many law enforcement organizations scattered nationwide under one roof. Don't know much about their political arm, or, it's weight, many just sign up with them just for the networking benefits. I've not seen the NAPO take direct action such as this, and the story you link us to has a "David vs. Goliath" pastel to it.

I noticed how the 20 years of fatal crash history (14 officers) shrunk to a decade. Seems no matter what FMC does here, it will not be good enough, and now it's the budding NAPO throwing the boots to FMC. I also note that the National F.O.P., perhaps the largest of all police organizations, as well as the International Chiefs of Police Assn., have reserved comment on the matter.

It would be sad to see FMC throw up their arms and just stop producing police cars. There is not much more out there that is as suitable and as safe for the multiple tasks of 21 century police work. I'm sure that if we nit-picked the possibile options, we could make them appear as "dangerous" as the Panther, if not more.

It's my personal view, that the NAPO is using this issue as a steroid for it's political future...IMHO.

[jefferson-mo]

It almost seems like it's not the police agencies but lawyers and lobbyists going after the 'Big Dogs'.....
I don't think any good can come of this but perhaps some lawyers getting rich(er) and some politicians getting brownie points:uzi:

[03 Merc]

Thanks for the overview SergntMac, I could not find a whole lot about them on the web..

"I don't think any good can come of this but perhaps some lawyers getting rich(er) and some politicians getting brownie points" You got that right... And we all get to pay more for products in the end because of this stuff...:fire:

[jefferson-mo]

Hey Sarge check this out...maybe this is what the cop cars need


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401156035&category=6767.........

:rasta:

[MAD-3R]

Well Sarge, I guess the LEO could always drive... Volvoes (s?)

[jefferson-mo]

I actually have a pic of a California Highway Patrol Volvo if someone can teach me how to attach it...........it's a 60k jpeg:bows:

[jefferson-mo]

Here or the photo gallery:confuse:

[jefferson-mo]

:confused:




:lol:

[LincMercLover]

Host the picture on a web site. Find the link to that picture ONLY. In the post reply, hit attach image (IMG button) and insert that link. Wa la! Insta-pic!

[jefferson-mo]

SWEET! :bows:

[WolfeBros]

I can easily see two scenerios develop out of this and the LEO's lose in both of them.
#1 FMC does throw up their hands and says thats it.....no more
Police Interceptors from us. Who wins ??

#2 FMC completely redesigns a police cruiser that withstands a 70 mph
impact from the rear......hmmm how bout front and side collisons...
There is no such car on the planet that can guarantee survivability
at those speeds. But we can redesign them and build them that
would come close for say...........$35 k apiece in quantity. All of a
sudden the municipalities figure out that to pay for all the $35k
police cars they need, they have to cut services. Generally that
equates to less officers on the street. Who wins ??

FMC can and will make safer cars, but back them into a corner with a room full of lawyers and see what happens. Only people that win are the lawyers. IMHO and I could be wrong.

[MAD-3R]

Win or lose, the lawyers get paid.

[martyo]

Hey, now, why all this heat on the lawyers???

Hey mensrea, you got my back hear??

[RF Overlord]

>>>In October, U.S. regulators said they had concluded a nearly year-old probe into the safety of Crown Victoria police cars after finding nothing inherently wrong with the vehicles.

The decision marked an important victory for Ford and its popular Crown Victoria Police Interceptor cruisers, which federal safety officials have linked to the deaths of at least 14 police officers in rear-end crashes over the last decade.<<<


14 police officer deaths is 14 too many, but I have to wonder...how many of them would have died if they had been hit from behind at 70 MPH in some other car? Like the Impala? or the Chrysler LHS or Intrepid or whatever they're trying to get in with? or an Explorer? I know these cars are little used compared to the CVPI, but how many people can survive a collision like that in ANY car? People are killed every day in collisions at speeds a lot lower on ordinary streets...

Sarge, and other LEOs, please understand that I am NOT trying to minimise the loss of your brother officers, I'm just asking whether this specific car is the sole reason for their deaths, as this NAPO and other groups seem to be suggesting...

[SergntMac]

You got my backing, RF, it's sad that 14 have been lost, but that's over 20 years of crash experience, not simply a decade. I know for sure, two of them didn't burn (August, '02, Green Bay WI.)

What's worse here, guys, the few LEOs lost over an unusual span of time, or the safety of those who have survived, as well of those not yet victimized.

I agree, RF, crashes at that speed, from any angle of contact, would not leave much to hope for, and I think it's sad for some to tug (and capitalize) on the emotion thread they reach for.

I'd also like to give the "lawyers" a little room here, by and large, their job is to represent the innocent against injustice. Sadly, it is sometimes, a very fine and murky line.

[RCSignals]

Yes, it's 12-14 since 1982. It's interesting to watch. when this really started getting rolling at the beginning of the year the numbers were smaller, and over very few years, They kept going back in years and adding more deaths. Obviously to make it seem like more of a problem. the latest tactic is to omit the time period al together.

Are cvpis really the biggest killer/injurer of Police?

I think they are afraid to publish the numbers of severe accidents that totaled the vehicle with the Police Officer surviving or even walking away. Did anyone see the OregonSP car that was auctioned on eBay recently?
It doesn't help the case to also show these are probably the safest Police vehicle ever produced.

[03 Merc]

Well it made the front page of Yahoo today...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030130/ap_on_bi_ge/troopers_crown_victorias_2


Interesting / different response from Ford on this one.. probably not the right approach on an emotional issue..

[jefferson-mo]

"DEFECT"?????

that's unfair


that's the media for ya

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by RCSignals
Yes, it's 12-14 since 1982. It's interesting to watch. when this really started getting rolling at the beginning of the year the numbers were smaller, and over very few years, They kept going back in years and adding more deaths. Obviously to make it seem like more of a problem. the latest tactic is to omit the time period al together.

Are cvpis really the biggest killer/injurer of Police?

I think they are afraid to publish the numbers of severe accidents that totaled the vehicle with the Police Officer surviving or even walking away. Did anyone see the OregonSP car that was auctioned on eBay recently? It doesn't help the case to also show these are probably the safest Police vehicle ever produced.

It's more fun with stats, RC, an off-shoot of "crime-clock logic" and one of the usual tricks that can be played with stats. When your statistical argument weakens, reverse the logic, and attack from the rear, as you have.

"Are CV/PIs really the biggest killer/cause of injury of Police"

You bet they are, RC, numero uno. More cops are killed, or, seriously injured driving CV/PIs than all the other LEO vehicles of any manfacturer, including cycles, aircraft and watercraft, combined together, and FMC has been at fault for this for over 20 years! This is a truthful statement, but only because 80% of the cops driving anything, are driving CV/PIs.

You would also be truthfull to say that out of all the cops killed/seriously injured on duty by any means, were wearing uniform pants. Shared elements do not make a common cause.

What now NAPO? Put us all in skirts?

I got mine...

[jefferson-mo]

OUch Sarge..................not a pretty visual:eek:

[LincMercLover]

Just think of the draft as passing motorists go by on while the officer has someone pulled over on the side of the road...

Sorry, more un-needed visuals. :D

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by SergntMac


What now NAPO? Put us all in skirts?

I got mine...

Pretty in Plaid ;)

[RF Overlord]

Sarge: do you wear your sporran left or right? :rolleyes:

[RCSignals]

Unless he's a drummer, be better wear it centred LOL

[SergntMac]

Military sporran, worn to the right when playing.

And you?

[martyo]

Sarge: Can you post pics of you in that skirt? My girlfriend wants to see them!!

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Military sporran, worn to the right when playing.

And you?

who me?

I have few sporrans. Two hair sporrans, one is a SHofC pipers grey sporran.

I have an issue brown leather sporan and a brown leather three tassel sporran

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by stanleyk
Sarge: Can you post pics of you in that skirt? My girlfriend wants to see them!!

Sure, here ya go Stan. Watch yourself now, women really like Kilts, she may size you up for one.

http://pdcpd.org/pxs/cp_mem_benefit/pages/C23_JPG.htm

[martyo]

Missed the pics when they were originally posted. You're right, my girlfriend wants to know if I can get one in 2XL!!

[RCSignals]

Yes stanley, you can. Go for the heavy weight worsted.

[RF Overlord]

And make sure it hangs to your knees...

[martyo]

It would have to hang to my knees or it won't cover everything!!

[jgc61sr2002]

You're just dreaming. Marty

[LincMercLover]

Which one's you Sarge?

[SergntMac]

old guy, blue drum, center of pic.

[LincMercLover]

Thought so. :D

[looking97233]

My .02 about it.

Okay everybody else has talked about any car being hit at 70+ mph. We all know this. I was reading at blue oval news a while ago, that some of the burning crashes have been linked to accessory racks or other LE speffic stuff being inproperly mounted in the cars. In one case a trunk wepons/radio rack was screwed right thru the floor and into the tank, in another something mounted to the frame of the car punctured the fuel line on the other side. Mabye somebody should go after the companies who install the assy. in to the crusiers.

[smith5365]

Not a bad idea. Remember when Value Jet lost an airplane in Florida because their ground servicing organization put "live" oxygen containers into the hold of the airplane without proper precautions and proper procedures? The courts did hold the ground servicing company liable, as I recall. On the other hand, Value Jet had to give up their name in order to survive. They bought another small airline and addopted their name. The moral is Ford would have to buy (whomever) and adopt that company's name (?). I don't like my idea.

[prchrman]

Hey sarge, every come to the highland games at Grandfather Mountain in North Carolina? What a shindig!

[SergntMac]

Been invited a number of times, Willie, but could never fit it into my schedule. Maybe this year, now that my ground transportation is in order.

[prchrman]

I live about 20 min. from Grandfather mt. If you have not seen the mountain and event, you will be impressed. Can show you a real southern hot rod small town. I think there may be a local car show at the same time--some real nice rides