Nitrous!!!!!

[carfixer]

Well, we planned to go to the meet Bradenton to make a few passes and realized I hadn't done anything to improve my car since I ran in Indy. That would just take some of the fun out of it. It's time for a mod. I was thinking Kooks or S/C. Each was way over my budget. I had just installed a NOS kit in Mel's car and it turned out good...

So, what the hell! I ordered a Zex wet kit and installed it this past week. I found it online for about $550. The kit comes with 75, 100, 125 HP jets. I figured I'd be a little conservative and run the 75HP shot and listen real carfully for detonation. I ran through a bottle during the week with not even a hint of detonation. In Bradenton, I made my first pass with the 75 shot and turned a 13.4 second pass. Next logical step, 100HP jets. It ran 2 incredible 13.2xx passes with my personal best of 13.205 at 104.72MPH. :banana: Not even a hint of detonation, even with the tune I have from DR. The biggest problem was traction with the stock tires. If you nail it at the start line, instant tire spin. I found the best way to launch was to launch at 1200RPM with the NOS switch off and hit the arming switch on shortly after the car started to move.

I went and put 4 gallons of 100 octane unleaded in it and bumped up to the 125 jets. First attempt I realized the 8 previous passes used up the rest of the NOS and I couldn't run the 125 shot. :mad2: Oh well, looks like I need to go back to the track again!! :burnout:

After the NOS ran out, we made a couple of passes without it and ran 3 consistant 14.7 second passes. The 75 shot took a full 1.3 sec off my time and the 100 shot took off another .2 sec.

I know a lot of people are a bit weary of NOS. In my opinion, a 75HP shot of NOS in a properly running car with 93 octane fuel is perfectly safe. The most important thing is to listen to you car. Any sound of detonation and you have to get out of the throttle immediately or you risk engine damage. I know of 2 cars using a 100 shot on a stock MM engine with no problems and 1 who can't wait to try the 125 shot!

[djv5150]

After seeing the results in person,I think my choice is made, NOS

[Bigdogjim]

Great job:up:

Thanks for the info:)

[CRUZTAKER]

OMG!!!

That's it.....I'm hittin' the bottle. Too close to my times and it's makin' me shiver.

You rock Claude. I wish I had decided to come down for my 8 week recovery, cause I would be banging on your door tomorrow!:D

Next year....next year man....the 12 second club....no scratch that....the 11 second club is in my reach. :banana:

[martyo]

OMG!!!

That's it.....I'm hittin' the bottle. Too close to my times and it's makin' me shiver.

You rock Claude. I wish I had decided to come down for my 8 week recovery, cause I would be banging on your door tomorrow!:D

Next year....next year man....the 12 second club....no scratch that....the 11 second club is in my reach. :banana:

Barry (and others) there is a nice article on Nitrous in the Nauary '05 issue of MM&FF (pg. 183). Give it a read!!

[SergntMac]

Another great "nuts and bolts- how to" thread, thank you!

[MikesMerc]

Good stuff! :beer:

[Bootlegger]

OMG!!!

That's it.....I'm hittin' the bottle. Too close to my times and it's makin' me shiver.

You rock Claude. I wish I had decided to come down for my 8 week recovery, cause I would be banging on your door tomorrow!:D

Next year....next year man....the 12 second club....no scratch that....the 11 second club is in my reach. :banana:
Barry, Everything that Claude said and more, you won't be sorry at all. Talk about " Seat of your Pants " performance...

[duhtroll]

OK - what about tuning for when you run the NOS? For those of us with flip chips, who could easily use one setting for NOS and one for everyday, have you done any changes to your program?

I would be VERY interested in a kit I could get for around $1000 installed, and I would also be going with the conservative 75 or 100 shot.

Thanks for the info!

-A

[carfixer]

OK - what about tuning for when you run the NOS? For those of us with flip chips, who could easily use one setting for NOS and one for everyday, have you done any changes to your program?

I would be VERY interested in a kit I could get for around $1000 installed, and I would also be going with the conservative 75 or 100 shot.

Thanks for the info!

-A

I am using the tuning program I got from Dennis with my SCT9100. It is not a special tune for N2O, although I would recommend one. The Zex kit recommends retarding the timing 2* for the 100 shot and 4* for the 125 shot. That can only be done with tuning. The flip chip would be ideal, changing programs on the fly!

The Zex wet kit is a very simple install. It is a module type with only 3 wires to connect (TP, ground and power from the arming switch). I figure it's about a $100-150 install. This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&tc=photo&item=2480085933&category=33740) is the kit I bought . I called them direct instead of buying it on ebay because the kit came with a 14 foot N2O line and I needed a 16, which they swapped out for an extra 10 bucks.

[stevengerard]

Wow, great job. All I hear is NOS is best bank for the buck - goes to proove. A low 13 second car just like that, must have been a great feeling.

[Patrick]

Sounds great. But I have a newbie question about NOS. Well a few. Everything I have heard it is not recommended not to run NOS. Engine life suffers and I saw a mark 7 at SSH4 blow half the hood off.

Sorry to be negative just would like to see more pros and CONS on this. Thanks

[duhtroll]

The guy was probably running 350+. We're only talking a fraction of that.

I mentioned tuning because it's much safer to tune your engine for the apps included. If tuned I believe this will be very safe, especialy given NOS can be switched on and off, unlike a blower.

-A

[carfixer]

Sounds great. But I have a newbie question about NOS. Well a few. Everything I have heard it is not recommended not to run NOS. Engine life suffers and I saw a mark 7 at SSH4 blow half the hood off.

Sorry to be negative just would like to see more pros and CONS on this. Thanks

Patrick, I don't view it as negative, it's good to do your homework. I'm certainly not a NOS pro, but I did do some homework too. Any mods you do to your car will potentially shorten the life of engine or drivetrain. It's a risk/reward type of thing. The higher the reward, the more risk you have to accept. I mentioned, that in my opinion, a 75 shot is safe and conservative, as long as you follow the "rules", such as using 93 octane fuel and listening to your engine. BTW, calling a 75 shot conservative is a bit of an overstatement considering it will burn the tires all day and take 1.3 seconds off a N/A's 1/4 time.
The Mustang forums probably have a lot more experience with this stuff than we do here and it may be worth it to search some of their forums for some the pro and CONS.

[Patrick]

Patrick, I don't view it as negative, it's good to do your homework. I'm certainly not a NOS pro, but I did do some homework too. Any mods you do to your car will potentially shorten the life of engine or drivetrain. It's a risk/reward type of thing. The higher the reward, the more risk you have to accept. I mentioned, that in my opinion, a 75 shot is safe and conservative, as long as you follow the "rules", such as using 93 octane fuel and listening to your engine. BTW, calling a 75 shot conservative is a bit of an overstatement considering it will burn the tires all day and take 1.3 seconds off a N/A's 1/4 time.
The Mustang forums probably have a lot more experience with this stuff than we do here and it may be worth it to search some of their forums for some the pro and CONS.

Thanks. I have my basic Mod list together and will start after the holidays. Just looking at my Phase II. Thanks again.

[CRUZTAKER]

..... a 75 shot is safe and conservative, as long as you follow the "rules", such as using 93 octane fuel and listening to your engine.
Hey Claude,

What is your opinion on my running 114 race fuel and giving it a shot at 75?

[tmac1337]

Claude, you were running with the best of em with a $500. mod. Just don't blow yourself up buddy, your too good a mechanic to lose. By the way, I'll buy you the steak dinner next time I'm over, it's worth your knowledge.

[Smokie]

Carfixer, Bootlegger and myself have been doing a little running at Bradenton since last year, and we usually were very familiar with what our cars can do....I did an exhaust change + U/D's to my car since Indy and was eager to see what would happen.

I was aware that Bootlegger had put his baby on the bottle prior to running so I knew he would fly...but my boy Carfixer never popped his hood or opened his trunk....so when he said "Hey, Javier lets be the first ones down the lanes, I said Cool lets go"

We lined up next to each other like we have done many, many times and the lights turn and off we go...first thing I notice is; he is not next to me*...odd I thought, about 3 seconds after that he BLOWS by me like I am standing still, I'm like WTF !!! By the time I finished my 14.5 I have plenty of time to see his 13.4 (one second is like a million years in drag racing) so after we get our slips he pulls over with this grin on his face and says " Javier, guess what I forgot to tell you":D :D :D


* He was setting his tires on fire.

[MikesMerc]

Sounds great. But I have a newbie question about NOS. Well a few. Everything I have heard it is not recommended not to run NOS. Engine life suffers and I saw a mark 7 at SSH4 blow half the hood off.

Sorry to be negative just would like to see more pros and CONS on this. Thanks

Like any other power enhancing mod, it comes down to knowing where to draw the line power wise, and of course, having the proper tune.

NOS, in any amount, is nothing to "play around" with. That's how accidents happen. Generally speaking running lower shots (75 to 100) are pretty easy to do without compromising the engine. NOS, just like a blower, does one thing...it stuffs more oxygen into the cylinders. The only thing that makes NOS more talked about as "dangerous" is due to the tuning aspects. With a good tune at modest power levels things are quite safe. But, there are a few different variables in NOS applications like bottle temperatures and fuel delivery (wet or dry), that come into play. Because NOS is relatively easy to hook up, and is also relatively cheap power, you have more folks just bolting on a bottle and blowing things up without regard for the proper tune.

Again, this is no different than supercharging. Pick your power range and tune safely accordingly.

The only draw back to NOS is having to refill the bottle and having the system "ready to go" on short notice. There can be situations where the driver might have preferred to have his power more permanently on tap.

An up side is that you can run without NOS thereby reducing stress on the engine. But, again, thats not much different than with a blower either. Any good blower system has a by pass and the cylinders are not under any increased pressures if the driver can keep his foot out of it.

[carfixer]

Hey Claude,

What is your opinion on my running 114 race fuel and giving it a shot at 75?
Barry, IMO, you don't have to run 114 octane fuel to run N2O, but it will eliminate just about any possibility of detonation. I would check with either Lidio or maybe call the Zex (1-888-817-1008 ) or NOS (1-866-GO-HOLLEY) tech line and see what they have to say. They are the pros.

NOS has article that I found while doing my homework that is very informative. Check it out here (http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/NOSTech3.html).

[Bootlegger]

Carfixer, Bootlegger and myself have been doing a little running at Bradenton since last year, and we usually were very familiar with what our cars can do....I did an exhaust change + U/D's to my car since Indy and was eager to see what would happen.

I was aware that Bootlegger had put his baby on the bottle prior to running so I knew he would fly...but my boy Carfixer never popped his hood or opened his trunk....so when he said "Hey, Javier lets be the first ones down the lanes, I said Cool lets go"

We lined up next to each other like we have done many, many times and the lights turn and off we go...first thing I notice is; he is not next to me*...odd I thought, about 3 seconds after that he BLOWS by me like I am standing still, I'm like WTF !!! By the time I finished my 14.5 I have plenty of time to see his 13.4 (one second is like a million years in drag racing) so after we get our slips he pulls over with this grin on his face and says " Javier, guess what I forgot to tell you":D :D :D


* He was setting his tires on fire.
Javier, I told Claude that he should tell you, but he just wouldn't listen to me..!!!!

[carfixer]

Javier, I told Claude that he should tell you, but he just wouldn't listen to me..!!!!
Javier, I told Mel to tell you, he must have forgotten. Gettin senile ya know. :)

[prchrman]

Hey guys...what were the 1/8 mile times?...and yes I am a believer in zee bottle...just itching to get a 75 shot...13.2 is fast enough for me...willie

[Bootlegger]

Hey guys...what were the 1/8 mile times?...and yes I am a believer in zee bottle...just itching to get a 75 shot...13.2 is fast enough for me...willieWe posted in the timeslip section, things went great...

[Patrick]

Hey guys...what were the 1/8 mile times?...and yes I am a believer in zee bottle...just itching to get a 75 shot...13.2 is fast enough for me...willie

We Should stay away from the bottle!!!!
:lol: :lol:

[BillyGman]

I remember seeing a WWII special on the History channel that focused on the Fighter planes in use during that war. One of them was called the "Lightning" and had a piston engine that was Supercharged (I don't know what type of S/Cer it was ) which I found very interesting. I also remember reading something about how there were experiments done w/Nitrous oxide in plane engines also( I think it was used in German planes, but I'm not positive about that). However, I don't know if it was during that same era. Does anyone know more about the specifics of that? I don't mean to get off-topic. I just thought it was interesting to find how long ago forced induction was used.

[Donny Carlson]

I remember seeing a WWII special on the History channel that focused on the Fighter planes in use during that war. One of them was called the "Lightning" and had a piston engine that was Supercharged (I don't know what type of S/Cer it was ) which I found very interesting. I also remember reading something about how there were experiments done w/Nitrous oxide in plane engines also( I think it was used in German planes, but I'm not positive about that). However, I don't know if it was during that same era. Does anyone know more about the specifics of that? I don't mean to get off-topic. I just thought it was interesting to find how long ago forced induction was used.
The Lightning's Allsion V-1710 needed the General Electric turbosupercharger to enhance high altitude performance, linky: http://p-38online.com/

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/engines/eng1.htm

[Patrick]

Like any other power enhancing mod, it comes down to knowing where to draw the line power wise, and of course, having the proper tune.

NOS, in any amount, is nothing to "play around" with. That's how accidents happen. Generally speaking running lower shots (75 to 100) are pretty easy to do without compromising the engine. NOS, just like a blower, does one thing...it stuffs more oxygen into the cylinders. The only thing that makes NOS more talked about as "dangerous" is due to the tuning aspects. With a good tune at modest power levels things are quite safe. But, there are a few different variables in NOS applications like bottle temperatures and fuel delivery (wet or dry), that come into play. Because NOS is relatively easy to hook up, and is also relatively cheap power, you have more folks just bolting on a bottle and blowing things up without regard for the proper tune.

Again, this is no different than supercharging. Pick your power range and tune safely accordingly.

The only draw back to NOS is having to refill the bottle and having the system "ready to go" on short notice. There can be situations where the driver might have preferred to have his power more permanently on tap.

An up side is that you can run without NOS thereby reducing stress on the engine. But, again, thats not much different than with a blower either. Any good blower system has a by pass and the cylinders are not under any increased pressures if the driver can keep his foot out of it.

More good info. Thank you! I would most likely not do this to my MM. But vauluable info for those considering this option. Thanks again.

[BillyGman]

Good info Donny! Thanks! Did you notice that the HP rating of the P-38 Lightning was 1,400+ and yet the maximum PRPM was only 3,000 RPM's. I'm surprised that low RPM was fast enough to floy a fighter plane!!!

[Tallboy]

i don't have nitrous, but i was at the track and saw carfixer and bootlegger run. i saw each of them rip of 13.2- times on a hot florida saturday afternoon. they had no problems, no driveability issues, and changing jets was a snap. the best part was no one knew until they "hit the switch". no decals, no tell-tale supercharger whine. just people in the stands looking at the times and trap speeds saying "holy s---!" if you've always wanted to go to the track and run with the "big dogs" [no, jim was not there :D ] a nitrous kit may be for you.:burnout:

[jspradii]

Barry (and others) there is a nice article on Nitrous in the Nauary '05 issue of MM&FF (pg. 183). Give it a read!!

I could have written this article, back in March. I was probably the first to put a NOSzle on a Marauder, and I'm running a 300 hp shot (mind you, it has the internals and the tune for it (thanks to Chris Johnson of SCT). A conservative shot up to 125 hp with the Zex kit is ok for anyone with a stock motor. I had that before I built my motor, and when it was torn down to "build", there was no sign of any abnormal wear anywhere, pistons, valves, rods, cranks, etc. The motor can handle it. Do it, and have fun!!!! :banana2: :banana2:

I haven't made my choice yet whether to turbo or supercharge (my preference is turbo) and I intend to use a little nitrous on top of that, to hook up low and cool the intake charge. Used properly, it won't damage anything.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[jspradii]

OMG!!!

That's it.....I'm hittin' the bottle. Too close to my times and it's makin' me shiver.

You rock Claude. I wish I had decided to come down for my 8 week recovery, cause I would be banging on your door tomorrow!:D

Next year....next year man....the 12 second club....no scratch that....the 11 second club is in my reach. :banana:It is, Barry. It'll be fun to see!:banana2:

By the way, pump premium on a stock motor (93 Octane) is just fine with the Zex system with about three degrees of retard, which my ECM adjusted for automatically, since it is not out of the stock power range. I woud STILL recommend a good dyno tune at that level to make sure the timing is tight, especially on a 2003, which only has one knock sensor. Since I've built my motor, what I'm doing now won't translate to stock operation, I won't go beyond what I did when the motor and tranny were stock. You will notice the difference!

[HwyCruiser]

carfixer,

Thanks for the info. I have a few questions about your install:

1 - Any need to worry about spark plug temp rating or gap with the 75 shot?
2 - Have you checked your plugs after use?
3 - The vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator re-routes through the NO2 controller, yes?
4 - Could you post some pics?

Thanks,

- JD