ProCharger MM Photos and update

[maraudernkc]

Attached are two phtos of the nice big Intercooler stuffed behing the MM grille. We are finishing up on a few things and are taking the car to MC Racing here in Kansas City on Tuesday for the Dyno runs. This will be on 93 ocatne and 10 pounds of Boost. I will post some pics on Sunday of the entire kit. It's taken longer than I thought but part of that is that we are making two of everything so that we will be able to duplicate the kit. A good mechanic will be able to install this kit in about 8 hours. The good news is that this kit will be produced and will be far less than 6K.The price of the other kits currently offered. I should have final numbers in about two Weeks. The bad news is that Procharger has decided not to do the kit based upon the limited number of MM built. If anyone has any questions, fire away.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[hdwrench]

Attached are two phtos of the nice big Intercooler stuffed behing the MM grille. We are finishing up on a few things and are taking the car to MC Racing here in Kansas City on Tuesday for the Dyno runs. This will be on 93 ocatne and 10 pounds of Boost. I will post some pics on Sunday of the entire kit. It's taken longer than I thought but part of that is that we are making two of everything so that we will be able to duplicate the kit. A good mechanic will be able to install this kit in about 8 hours. The good news is that this kit will be produced and will be far less than 6K.The price of the other kits currently offered. I should have final numbers in about two Weeks. The bad news is that Procharger has decided not to do the kit based upon the limited number of MM built. If anyone has any questions, fire away.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!
if procharger isnt going to "do the kit" then who is?

[Bradley G]

Hey maraudernkc,

Happy thanksgiving!Thank You for the pics.That intercooler looks huge!Is the Procharger that you installed going to be redily available?If the parts are all available (not having to fabricate any pieces?)over the counter ??Sounds like the parts required will be documented with a duplicate.what stage is the project??



Bradley G

[Tallboy]

yeah-what hdwrench said. if procharger isn't doing the kit, who is?

[maraudernkc]

hdwrench, My best friend owns Procharger and will be selling me all the parts that I will need to produce the kit. This will be a complete kit. There are some custom made brackets and some custom bent tubing that I will have ProCharger make for me.




if procharger isnt going to "do the kit" then who is?

[jgc61sr2002]

Good luck with your venture. :D :up: Look good so far.

[maraudernkc]

BradleyG, your right that Intercooler is huge and with that location behind the grille will get some major air going thru it. The ProCharger kit will be available but not thru the ProCharger net work of dealers. Just a little history behing this kit. The person that I have doing the kit for me worked for ProCharger for 7 Years as there R&D guy. He was the one that built new kits for new applications. So rest assured that this kit is done right. The current stage that the project is in is that the transmission is on the bench getting beefed up to hadle the extra power and the gauges for the A pillar need to be installed and the power steering fluid resivor bracket needs to be made to relocate the power steering fluid resivor. This is not a 2nd rate kit. The ProCharger Blower will have a one Year Warranty and the kit will be guarnteed to be free of any defects. There are alot of custom brackets and some custome bent tubing which ProCharger will make for me. I hope I have answered most of you questions.




Hey maraudernkc,

Happy thanksgiving!Thank You for the pics.That intercooler looks huge!Is the Procharger that you installed going to be redily available?If the parts are all available (not having to fabricate any pieces?)over the counter ??Sounds like the parts required will be documented with a duplicate.what stage is the project??



Bradley G

[hdwrench]

sounds interesting. im interested in seeing the #'s... both peformance and cost. im sure you'll let us know as soon as you do. :)

[maraudernkc]

Thanks, for the support!:beer:




Good luck with your venture. :D :up: Look good so far.

[hdwrench]

if you need any volunteers to do some extended real world testing... im available. :)

[Bradley G]

Hey maraudernkc,

Thanks for the reply,That kit looks anything but second rate!!You are a pioneer and very appropriate to celebrate today!Keep us posted and lots of pics!!
You are very fortunate my friend !I hear ya on stuff always taking a bit longer than planned.With a trans mod and this 10# boost what are you hopeing to be at ??
Bradley G

[maraudernkc]

BradleyGman, I really don't know what the RWHP will be. I will find out Tuesday. RWHP is important but so is the everyday drivablity.The 2001 Cobra Mustangs with the same blower, I think are making in the mid 450 ish. I sure the Cobras have different cams etc..

Thanks for the support!



Hey maraudernkc,

Thanks for the reply,That kit looks anything but second rate!!You are a pioneer and very appropriate to celebrate today!Keep us posted and lots of pics!!
You are very fortunate my friend !I hear ya on stuff always taking a bit longer than planned.With a trans mod and this 10# boost what are you hopeing to be at ??
Bradley G

[maraudernkc]

Yes, I will start posting photos this Weekend!




sounds interesting. im interested in seeing the #'s... both peformance and cost. im sure you'll let us know as soon as you do. :)

[Cobra25]

Thank You for all your hard work and time you have put into this project. I'm sure you will turn out a great product.

[rayjay]

BradleyG, your right that Intercooler is huge and with that location behind the grille will get some major air going thru it. The ProCharger kit will be available but not thru the ProCharger net work of dealers. Just a little history behing this kit. The person that I have doing the kit for me worked for ProCharger for 7 Years as there R&D guy. He was the one that built new kits for new applications. So rest assured that tyhis kit is done right. The current stage that the project is in is that the transmission is on the bench getting beefed up to hadle the extra power and the gauges for the A pillar need to be installed and the power steering bracket needs to be made to relocate the power steering pump. This is not a 2nd rate kit. The ProCharger Blower will have a one Year Warranty and the kit will be guarnteed to be free of any defects. There are alot of custom bracket and some custome bent tubing which ProCharger will make for me. I hope I have answered most of you questions.
With the intercooler in front of the radiator will there be any reduction in the radiator's ability to cool the engine?

[maraudernkc]

The Intercooloer is a new sheetmetal design that is very light and high flow. Since this is and air to air intercooler the air will pass thru the intercooloer in route to the radiator. So the answer is no it will not affect to cooloing of the car.




With the intercooler in front of the radiator will there be any reduction in the radiator's ability to cool the engine?

[maraudernkc]

I appreciate it. My goal is to have a great product and a great price.




Thank You for all your hard work and time you have put into this project. I'm sure you will turn out a great product.

[Cobra25]

I appreciate it. My goal is to have a great product and a great price. I'm sure you will, me & Tim (TMAC1337) have been talking about it. You have my support and I'm sure the support of many others .

[martyo]

The Intercooler is a new sheet metal design that is very light and high flow. Since this is and air to air intercooler the air will pass through the intercooler in route to the radiator. So the answer is no it will not affect to cooling of the car.


Not a flame, just some questions (remember I am a Procharger fan myself), but I have some questions about this.

What is the temperature of the air charge when it enters the intercooler? This air temperature will be shed to the atmosphere when it passes through the intercooler. That very same atmosphere will then be what then flows through the stock radiator (which I believe will be much hotter than the ambient air temperature). So, with this thinking, while the air charge is cooled, won't the car run hotter because the radiator will be less efficient?

Again, this is a serious design question and not a flame or intended to provoke flaming.

[Bradley G]

Hey Marty O,

Ditto on your thoughts.That was the first thing I thought.Maybe the reason the Air to air radiator is so huge.It may be so effecient that it doesnt significantly affect the engine radiators temp.
Bradley G

[martyo]

Hey Marty O,

Ditto on your thoughts.That was the first thing I thought.Maybe the reason the Air to air radiator is so huge.It may be so effecient that it doesnt significantly affect the engine radiators temp.
Bradley G

Bradley: I Just don't know. Dammit, I am a lawyer not a design engineer....

I would like to have a better handle on this stuff as I am always curious how it all works and comes together.

[FordNut]

Not a flame, just some questions (remember I am a Procharger fan myself), but I have some questions about this.

What is the temperature of the air charge when it enters the intercooler? This air temperature will be shed to the atmosphere when it passes through the intercooler. That very same atmosphere will then be what then flows through the stock radiator (which I believe will be much hotter than the ambient air temperature). So, with this thinking, while the air charge is cooled, won't the car run hotter because the radiator will be less efficient?

Again, this is a serious design question and not a flame or intended to provoke flaming.
Hey Marty,
I believe the air temp after the intercooler will be higher than ambient, but it will still be well below the coolant temp which is regulated by the thermostat.

Not a major concern, but a possible thermal issue could be lower efficiency from the air conditioner. Keep in mind, the thermal changes are not evident unless you are under boost and most normal driving does not keep high boost levels for extended periods of time.

[Badger]

Great work! Looking forward to the numbers! Drivability is my main issue as my POV doubles as my work transportation as well. I bought my MM to drive it not "hanger" it.
I understand that the procharger air charge temperature will be less then a typical eaton. Looking forward to some real numbers at the track, dyno and real road conditions.

[Zack]

Will it have a blow thru or draw thru MAF?
Before you do your dyno testing, may I suggest upgrading to a Pro-M or a SCT MAF. It will take a lot of guess work out of the tuning process. I wouldnt be surprised if you need to upgrade to a bigger fuel pump as well.
Good luck.

[martyo]

Will it have a blow thru or draw thru MAF?
Before you do your dyno testing, may I suggest upgrading to a Pro-M or a SCT MAF. It will take a lot of guess work out of the tuning process. I wouldnt be surprised if you need to upgrade to a bigger fuel pump as well.
Good luck.

{I hesitate to say this :D , but} I agree with Zack. He is right on here. The truth will be in the tuning.

[maraudernkc]

Martyo, I can understand your concerns and these are all good questions.

The air that enters the intercooler is ambient.

After the air passes thru the intercooler heading to the radiator the tempature will be 2 degrees higher than ambient.

There is about 3 inches between the radiator and the intercooler. So you will get flow from under the car and up thru the two as well as thru that monster MM grille.

This is a new sheetmetal Intercooler design which is much more efficent than the cast units. They shed heat much faster.

I can assure you that most new cars do not have the kind of air flow up front that our MM do. Just take a look at the Corvette or Mustangs.

The air tempature that will enter the intake will be about 25 degrees above ambient.

We will be using Pyrometer that will measure the differential heat in several locations. This will be on the street under normal conditions and not on a Dyno.

I hope I have addressed any concerns that you might have.


Not a flame, just some questions (remember I am a Procharger fan myself), but I have some questions about this.

What is the temperature of the air charge when it enters the intercooler? This air temperature will be shed to the atmosphere when it passes through the intercooler. That very same atmosphere will then be what then flows through the stock radiator (which I believe will be much hotter than the ambient air temperature). So, with this thinking, while the air charge is cooled, won't the car run hotter because the radiator will be less efficient?

Again, this is a serious design question and not a flame or intended to provoke flaming.

[maraudernkc]

Zack, This not an amature install. I stated before the person doing the kit for me worked for ProCharger for 7 years he was there R&D guy. He built the kits for all new applications. This is a draw thru design and we are using a Ford Lightning MAF and yes the fuel pump has been changed to a 300 LPH.




Will it have a blow thru or draw thru MAF?
Before you do your dyno testing, may I suggest upgrading to a Pro-M or a SCT MAF. It will take a lot of guess work out of the tuning process. I wouldnt be surprised if you need to upgrade to a bigger fuel pump as well.
Good luck.

[maraudernkc]

Badger, Everyday drivabilty is one of the most important things. I agree with you. As far as the Eaton, Trilogy has a great kit but you are right they do make a little more heat but they don't like a hairdryer.:)




Great work! Looking forward to the numbers! Drivability is my main issue as my POV doubles as my work transportation as well. I bought my MM to drive it not "hanger" it.
I understand that the procharger air charge temperature will be less then a typical eaton. Looking forward to some real numbers at the track, dyno and real road conditions.

[Zack]

Glad to see it has a draw through and the Lightning MAF should work well.
Can you tell us exactly what fuel pump has been installed???

[maraudernkc]

Zack, I really don't want to tell all my secrets quite yet. I will tell you that it is the pump that ProCharger puts in there 2001 Cobra Mustang kit.




Glad to see it has a draw through and the Lightning MAF should work well.
Can you tell us exactly what fuel pump has been installed???

[maraudernkc]

I just drove an 2005 Mustang with a Procharger Blower kit on it. The car drove total like it was stock until you put the pedal to d metal. Wow!

Driving it slow you would never know it had a blower besides the slight whine that the blower produces from under the hood.

[tmac1337]

Looking forward to seeing the results of the dyno, air temps., 8 vs. 10 pnds of boost.

[Zack]

Zack, I really don't want to tell all my secrets quite yet. I will tell you that it is the pump that ProCharger puts in there 2001 Cobra Mustang kit.

I am trying to make sure you know that some fuel pumps are not designed for returnless fuel systems like the Marauder has.
For instance, Kenny Brown uses a Walbro Pump which is not designed to be used in a returnless setup. Im not knocking the Walbro pump because it has NOT failed in any KB cars that I Know of.

[maraudernkc]

Zack, that is the pump that I am using and was told that it would not be a problem. Procharger usues that in most of there ford kit and it has not been an issue.




I am trying to make sure you know that some fuel pumps are not designed for returnless fuel systems like the Marauder has.
For instance, Kenny Brown uses a Walbro Pump which is not designed to be used in a returnless setup. Im not knocking the Walbro pump because it has NOT failed in any KB cars that I Know of.

[maraudernkc]

Zack, yes I do this and thanks for the heads up.




I am trying to make sure you know that some fuel pumps are not designed for returnless fuel systems like the Marauder has.
For instance, Kenny Brown uses a Walbro Pump which is not designed to be used in a returnless setup. Im not knocking the Walbro pump because it has NOT failed in any KB cars that I Know of.

[studio460]

maraudernkc:

Well, maraudernkc, after a Los Angeles-area mini-meet yesterday, you have certainly gained my interest in becoming a future customer for your ProCharger kit out here. We had a chance to drive NavChap's (Keith's) Reinhart-installed, Vortech-powered Marauder. I was very impressed with the 91-octane Jerry-tune that Keith had--it felt VERY smooth. The car went through the power band very nicely. The car had a very satisfying off-the-line feeling, and the car kept pulling consistently thoughout the RPM range (note that Keith has the widened rear rims as well). Although I would certainly appreciate the right-off-idle, Roots-powered 60' times, Keith's Vortech at standard PSI exhibited plenty of power off-the-line as well.

Regarding intake air temps AFTER the blower ("charge" temps, or whatever you call them), Dennis had wired the "outside temp" digital gauge of Keith's car to read air intake temp (don't know exactly where the sensor was installed). At about 60-degrees ambient, it read about 100-degrees F on Keith's air-to-water intercooled, Vortech-powered engine. We've always heard from centrifugal vendors that their internal air temps are lower than Roots-style systems. At least one Roots vendor I spoke with disputes that claim. It would be great to hear the actual numbers on this for both Roots and centrifugal designs (both air- and water-cooled). Now that I've said that, I hope the thread will still remain amicable.

Anyway, kudos to maraudernkc, the 7-year veteran R&D guy from ProCharger, and Dennis Reinhart for all of your continued efforts toward the development of the ProCharger system for the benefit of all of us who really want it!

[maraudernkc]

NBCshooter, This set up will run great. I will be posting photos either tonight or on Monday of the ProCharger all mounted in the car. I will get you exact temps from diffrent locations. It is going to the Dyno on Tuesday. Dennis had emailed me the tune that he is using on his vortech kit. I will keep you updated.




maraudernkc:

Well, maraudernkc, after a Los Angeles-area mini-meet yesterday, you have certainly gained my interest in becoming a future customer for your ProCharger kit out here. We had a chance to drive NavChap's (Keith's) Reinhart-installed, Vortech-powered Marauder. I was very impressed with the 91-octane Jerry-tune that Keith had--it felt VERY smooth. The car went through the power band very nicely. The car had a very satisfying off-the-line feeling, and the car kept pulling consistently thoughout the RPM range (note that Keith has the widened rear rims as well). Although I would certainly appreciate the right-off-idle, Roots-powered 60' times, Keith's Vortech at standard PSI exhibited plenty of power off-the-line as well.

Regarding intake air temps AFTER the blower ("charge" temps, or whatever you call them), Dennis had wired the "outside temp" digital gauge of Keith's car to read air intake temp (don't know exactly where the sensor was installed). At about 60-degrees ambient, it read about 100-degrees F on Keith's air-to-water intercooled, Vortech-powered engine. We've always heard from centrifugal vendors that their internal air temps are lower than Roots-style systems. At least one Roots vendor I spoke with disputes that claim. It would be great to hear the actual numbers on this for both Roots and centrifugal designs (both air- and water-cooled). Now that I've said that, I hope the thread will still remain amicable.

Anyway, kudos to maraudernkc, the 7-year veteran R&D guy from ProCharger, and Dennis Reinhart for all of your continued efforts toward the development of the ProCharger system for the benefit of all of us who really want it!

[martyo]

http://www.legalknevil.com/albums/Marauder/aqt.sized.jpg
http://www.legalknevil.com/albums/Marauder/aqv.sized.jpg

:up:

[studio460]

Dennis had emailed me the tune that he is using on his vortech kit. I will keep you updated.maraudernkc:
Hey, that sounds great! FYI--I met with NavChap this weekend and had the pleasure of driving his Vortech-powered 2003 Marauder 300B (Reinhart SC #1). I also have a 2003 300B with a CRD1 EEC flash (now re-flashed with SCT's stock "performance" 91-octane tuning file). NavChap had to have a second retune for the California 91-octane stuff they call "gas" here in California. When you get ready to sell your kit to California Marauder owners (and I'm guessing you'll have quite a few sales here--remember, LOTS of people READ here but NEVER post!), we might want to take a look at NavChap's file.

[maraudernkc]

DR is the tunner. I would think he knows this. Thanks for the heads up.




maraudernkc:
Hey, that sounds great! FYI--I met with NavChap this weekend and had the pleasure of driving his Vortech-powered 2003 Marauder 300B (Reinhart SC #1). I also have a 2003 300B with a CRD1 EEC flash (now re-flashed with SCT's stock "performance" 91-octane tuning file). NavChap had to have a second retune for the California 91-octane stuff they call "gas" here in California. When you get ready to sell your kit to California Marauder owners (and I'm guessing you'll have quite a few sales here--remember, LOTS of people READ here but NEVER post!), we might want to take a look at NavChap's file.

[Mike Poore]

hdwrench, My best friend owns Procharger and will be selling me all the parts that I will need to produce the kit. This will be a complete kit. There are some custom made brackets and some custom bent tubing that I will have ProCharger make for me.
Um, the second picture? Did you install it backwards? It looks to be upside down. ;) I'm kidding, OK? Really, it looks way cool. (pun intended) Thanks for the post.:)