Ugh... CIBC, again

[QWK SVT]

So, as some of you already know, I work for CIBC... Depending on the newspaper you read, you'll see another story, tomorrow morning... I won't (can't go into to detail), but it's not a "new" issue, in the sense that's, yes, it's another one, but no, not one we didn't know about, or an occurance that happened after the last one (in terms of timing)...

I'm on the Fax/Privacy SWAT Team (well, we don't have a name, but we're fire-fighting), and have been putting in VERY long hours (I'm just getting home, after a 15-hour day (which has been the norm, for the last week and change). Weekends are no longer "my time" and it looking like my planned Christmas vacation is in jeopardy...

It's a little dejecting, to give everything I've got, and more, and then see the negative media reaction. Really, you get so involved in the work, that it almost becomes personal...

Obviously, I can't comment on specifics, but I do feel CIBC has gotten a bit of the bum's rush. Don't get me wrong, I think that CIBC should take some heat, but the media hasn't necessarily portrayed the story very accurately... I assume we've all heard about the Ontario gov't "oops" (link (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102115943845_6?hub=Canada)), but it seems to be downplayed, even though the ramifications and scope are much larger.

OK, so that's my little rant:rolleyes: . I guess where I'm going is that I'm curious - What's everyone's take on the whole situation?

[Dr Caleb]

If you mean, the CIBC faxing people's RRSP information to that car parts dealer in Virginia for years? (your link is the only link I could find on that story - checked canada.com and google too)

No, man. I think it's CIBC's fault 100%. One time, a couple times OK. But for a couple years straight, even after they were contacted by the guy?

No offense intended here, but after dealing with rude tellers, and some unscrupulious practices at CIBC I wouldn't deal with them again if they were giving away free money.

I read the link you gave, and I don't think it's really anyones 'fault'. It's systemic problems. Little things like testing changes before putting them live - like that little FUBAR the Royal bank did back in June.

Companies want maximum profits, so test labs and non-production mirrored networks aren't in the budget. That results in things like this happening, and they lose customers because of it. I used to run a test facility for a large oilsands company. Every software or hardware change (even hardware driver revisions!) were tested on an isolated network, with it's own mainframes, servers and 1 of every kind of PC or notebook (or even cellphone!) that was in the companies inventory. If a bad change had ocurred like the Royal Bank one, it would have cost the company millions of dollars per hour! We even discovered that a certain brand and model of cell phone was not allowed in the Network Operations Center, because proximity to a certain brand of server to the cellphone cause the server to bluescreen :help: You just can't find those kind of things out on a prduction network without causing major headaches and loss of profit.

I feel for you, I've had those long hours. Living on vending machine food, nicotine and caffine. I'll be spending 20 hours a day in my NOC come the end of January - year end. I used to have a staff of 12, but now it's just me.

But at least it's only a couple weeks a year.

[QWK SVT]

I just got home (it's now 1:15am), after another 17+ hour day, so I apologize if this ends up being incoherent (it seems good, in my mind, but I'm a little :loco: )... On the bright side, I'll read the forums (really quickly), and try to get a quick 4 hours of sleep, and back to work I go...


If you mean, the CIBC faxing people's RRSP information to that car parts dealer in Virginia for years? (your link is the only link I could find on that story - checked canada.com and google too)

No, man. I think it's CIBC's fault 100%. One time, a couple times OK. But for a couple years straight, even after they were contacted by the guy?

Like I said before - YES, I agree, CIBC made an error. I don't suggest you neccessarily trust everything reported, because there's more to the story, than what the media has portrayed, and the gentleman from Virginia has not been completely honest.



No offense intended here, but after dealing with rude tellers, and some unscrupulious practices at CIBC I wouldn't deal with them again if they were giving away free money.

I know. I work for the company, and have seen it, first hand (either as an employee or as a customer).

I (along with many others in head office) feel that the frontline, the people that MAKE OR BRAKE the relationship with the customer are vastly underpaid. If one can make more working at Walmart, why would you want to be a Teller? Why would you want to deal with all the crap that they have to? If you're good, how long will you last, before you leave to company, or accept a better paying role, so that another NEW person can come, and try to fill the role?

This company (like most others) looks at decisions based mostly on dollars and cents. Unfortunately, that can often be a short-sighted approach. I do honestly feel this is changing, but it is happening slowly.



I read the link you gave, and I don't think it's really anyones 'fault'. It's systemic problems. Little things like testing changes before putting them live - like that little FUBAR the Royal bank did back in June.

This is where I think the two issues are completely seperate. That was a system error. I completely agree, rigorous testing prior to going into prod should have routed it out, before there was any impact. This "CIBC fax issue" is directly related to human error. It was a simple miskey of a phone number. Now, if the miskey went into a speed dial... Well, you can see how that would increase the magnitude.

Because I'm part of the team working on solutioning this, I can say that we have a pretty good solution (provided some tech issues are resolved), that could greatly reduce the likelihood of this ever happening, again (because a human is involved, it will never be 100%, but will be awful close).



I feel for you, I've had those long hours. Living on vending machine food, nicotine and caffine. I'll be spending 20 hours a day in my NOC come the end of January - year end. I used to have a staff of 12, but now it's just me.

But at least it's only a couple weeks a year.
Thanks. I know, I'm not the only one that's ever been in this boat. I guess just hearing that my Christmas plans could be put on hold was a little painful. Getting paid less than $15/hour (I'm salary, so that's about what it works out to, with these long hours) isn't exactly motivating me, either, but it'll get better, eventually.

I think everyone's gonna have to get gift certificates from me, this year, but I'll not have any time to go shopping :depress: Maybe futureshop's website - at least they deliver for free...

[QWK SVT]

So, it's not just CIBC... I figured not, given the nature of faxes... Thhrrrp (that's the sound of the proverbial fan getting sprayed)



More people report receiving bank faxes
CTV.ca News Staff

A Montreal businessman says he, like a man in West Virginia, is receiving confidential information from CIBC via fax.

Stephen Oakes says the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce has sent him faxes for the last four years.

All the faxes were transfer authorizations for registered investments like educational and retirement savings plans and contained confidential information, including phone numbers and Social Insurance Numbers.

"I kind of feel for the client. If this was my information, I certainly wouldn't want my information in the hands of a stranger," Oakes told CTV News.

Oakes has a small office in the Montreal suburb of Dorval, not far from Pierre Trudeau International Airport. He shares a fax machine with his brother Daniel, who runs a security and surveillance film.

Since 2000, Oakes estimated he's received 24 faxes, each containing private information. The last such fax he received was in September. There have been none since.

Oakes called the CIBC after receiving each fax. He even sent emails, but despite his efforts, he got little response.

"I was led to believe that this was an isolated incident strictly with my fax machine," he says.

CTV News has learned that CIBC isn't the only bank mistakenly sending confidential customer data to strangers. Dan Cook, a Vancouver talk show host, said he's received about 50 faxes in the last year at his home, all of them intended for a Royal Bank branch. This week, he got three more faxes.

And another man, Tony Usher ,says he has received a Scotiabank fax that was destined for a branch of the Bank of Nova Scotia in Halifax.

CTV News and The Globe and Mail first reported the problem of faxes going astray when we interviewed Wade Peer, who runs a scrap yard in West Virginia, and said he had been receiving similar faxes for the past three years.

He has launched legal action against the bank, which CIBC is rejecting.

This time, CIBC CEO John Hunkin has taken the remarkable step of phoning Oakes personally to apologize.

"I think it reflects the seriousness that everybody takes with this matter," said the bank's Rob McLeod.

Since the problem became public, CIBC has stopped internally faxing

documents and has taken its fax number out of service.

The Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada is investigating that case to determine whether the bank violated privacy laws.

The CIBC has refused to speak on camera but they did issue a statement saying: "We are aware of faxes being misdirected to Mr. Oakes' business. That fax unit and the numbers surrounding it have been removed from service."

With a report from CTV's David Akin

Here's the link (you can watch the video there, too):
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102526129558_97935329/?hub=CTVNewsAt11 (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102526129558_97935329/?hub=CTVNewsAt11)

[Dr Caleb]

Yup. Just like any business, it's how you react to the fat finger errors that distinguishes you. If it took CIBC (or any business) 4 years to stop faxing this other guy, why should I, as a customer, trust them to not do it in the future ??

[QWK SVT]

Yup. Just like any business, it's how you react to the fat finger errors that distinguishes you. If it took CIBC (or any business) 4 years to stop faxing this other guy, why should I, as a customer, trust them to not do it in the future ??
Ahh... Saturday!! Only had to work 14 hours, today... That's what Suday's for - to pick up the unfinsihed work from Saturday :D

Onyways, how do you know it took 4 years? Don't you think when CIBC spoke with anyone receiving faxes, we wouldn't have said some to the effect of "Oh, BTW, if you get anymore, please tell us, so that we can deal with it."

Any company that faxes anything will eventually fax the wrong thing, to the wrong location. Just like any company that mails anything will eventually mail the wrong thing, to the wrong location. These are the facts of life (no pun intended).

The problem is / was that CIBC was not equiped to handle this sort of thing. There was not a clear process to be followed, nor a clear escalation procedure, for this specific thing. Why? Because nothing like this (to this magnitude) had ever occured, or at least had not been brought to CIBC's attention. That's not an excuse, and I feel the company did make a mistake there.

Now, people are coming out of the woodwork, looking for stuff... Reporters have literally been found, digging through dumpsters, in hopes of finding something juicy, to make a story of :rolleyes: Honestly... I hope they step in something "juicy" while they're digging in the trash ;)

[jspradii]

Fellas.....any bank in the US did this, it'd be worth hundreds of millions in damages for privacy violations. Have you this remedy in Canada?

[QWK SVT]

Fellas.....any bank in the US did this, it'd be worth hundreds of millions in damages for privacy violations. Have you this remedy in Canada?
Do you mean hundreds of millions in fines, for ALL customers, or to the handful of people actually affected?

The fines (if any are TBD). I doubt the company will pay millions of customers, when very few will be affected. As an employee of the company, I really can't comment on what remedy might occur for the few people that were impacted by this...

The Province of Ontario recently messed up 27,000 cheques, in which they sent out personal information, to all the wrong people. Enough personal information that account takeovers / impersonations wouldn't be very difficult... Their response... "Oops. We're sorry. That is all."

[jspradii]

Do you mean hundreds of millions in fines, for ALL customers, or to the handful of people actually affected?

The fines (if any are TBD). I doubt the company will pay millions of customers, when very few will be affected. As an employee of the company, I really can't comment on what remedy might occur for the few people that were impacted by this...

The Province of Ontario recently messed up 27,000 cheques, in which they sent out personal information, to all the wrong people. Enough personal information that account takeovers / impersonations wouldn't be very difficult... Their response... "Oops. We're sorry. That is all."
In the US, the disclosure of private info that's not authorized by the citizen, is subject to suit, for violation of privacy laws. NOW, most people have been used to using their social security numbers as ID for years.....dumb move. Identity theft is rampant. people use dead folks to get credit. If our government does this, we can seek damages for all folks who have suffered loss because of the "impropriety". For example, when I went to get my driver's license, they "asked" for a social security number. I "asked", what authority do you have to ask for that number. They said "none", and I said, "well, then you don't get it. I'm a citizen, and I don't want my social security number on my driver's license." My passport? Sure. Other official Federal documents? Sure. State (or provincial documents?); forget it!!!!! You either have rights, or you don't. I will compare my Constitution to any document of any country in the world, and you won't find anywhere that I am required to submit anything to my government, except what that Constitution calls for..this is a matter for a different discusssion. This is, after all, a car board. Feel free to pm or e-mail me a jspradii@aol.com