Additional Mods

[Tallboy]

I have a question for Trilogy owners. After your supercharger was installed, what was the next mod you did on your car? [Carfixer installed the cooling mod shortly after the s/c went on.] I'm not planning on anything else, just curious. Although, I love the way Cobra25's exhaust sounds.:hmmm:

[Nathan]

I'm not sure if you count it as a mod, but buying Nitto Drag Radials was the first thing I did. After not liking the way they looked on the stock rim, I bought another set of rims and had two of them widened.

In the 10k miles I've had the Trilogy kit, the only power adding mod I've done is the K&N Air Charger. I keep talking myself into and out of different exhaust setups. I still don't think I can justify the $$$ to RWHP+/RWTQ+ ratio. Maybe a smaller pulley is next?

For what it's worth, I had the 4.10 gears, chip, plugs, thermostat and PI driveshaft installed by Kenny Brown before I had the Trilogy kit installed. If I were to do it over again, I would have started with just the Trilogy kit.

[BillyGman]

Chuck, I cannot answer your question directly since as you know, all the other mods that I did to my Marauder were before the Trilogy S/Cer installation. However, based on my experience modifying my car, I'd have to suggest that you go with the headers and freer flowing exhaust next, but only if you're looking for that more aggressive sound. I'm not so sure that you would be able to count on a different exhaust making a S/Ced car all that much faster.


As far as making the car accelerate even better, I'd have to suggest 4.10 gears which as you know would require you to get another chip burned by Lidio (which BTW shouldn't be any problem, and there might not even be much of a charge for that if any at all since he has already burned the chip that you have). I hope this helps. ;)

[BillyGman]

I'm not sure if you count it as a mod, but buying Nitto Drag Radials was the first thing I did.Oh yeah, I had forgotten about the drag radials. I agree. they make a difference even on the street off the line, but especially off the line at the track. but if you drive them on the street, you have to be careful in the rain, and the tires won't last more than 8 or 10,000 miles on the street, and that's if you don't do very many burnouts with them. I've never got them to last more than 6,000 miles on the street, but I often do burnouts with them (I JUST CAN'T STOP!!!!!). After not liking the way they looked on the stock rim, I bought another set of rims and had two of them widened. You mean that you used the P305 Nitto drag radials on the stock rims???!!! That isn't safe, since the stock rims aren't wide enough. :nono:

In the 10k miles I've had the Trilogy kit, the only power adding mod I've done is the K&N Air Charger. I keep talking myself into and out of different exhaust setups. I still don't think I can justify the $$$ to RWHP+/RWTQ+ ratio. I have to agree with you there. That's why I said that the only reason to get a set of headers and freer flowing exhaust once the car is already S/Ced is if you want the better sound. And it definately sounds better IMO.

If I were to do it over again, I would have started with just the Trilogy kit.Yes, me too. Trilogy should've been first.

[stevengerard]

What about brakes, so many folks make their cars go faster but forget about the imprtant safety factor of better brakes. That's what I would do, S/C first, brakes second

[BillyGman]

I drove John's car (aka "Jet") which has the after market brakes installed, and they work great. I was very impressed. However, I cannot get them for my Marauder since I wouldn't be able to use the 16 winter wheels and snow tires that I have. And just because the aftermarket bigger brakes stop better doesn't mean that I would call the factory Marauder brakes unsafe. They'ye still four wheel discs that provide decent stopping power. They're definately not as "unsafe" as driving the car in the winter w/out snow tires on (although I'm aware of the fact that Chuck lives in FLA). That's my 2 cents.

[TechHeavy]

I have a question for Trilogy owners. After your supercharger was installed, what was the next mod you did on your car? [Carfixer installed the cooling mod shortly after the s/c went on.] I'm not planning on anything else, just curious. Although, I love the way Cobra25's exhaust sounds.:hmmm:
Chuck, I'm with Nathan, Steven, and Billy on this one.... (seems like we're all on sort of the same page)... BTW... I DID get my S/C first, (which proved to be the most logical first mod for me to make, and anyone if you have the funds) and I can't thank Billy, Chuck, and other Trilogy owners enough for making this obvious to me. But I'm going off on a tangent...

My list of mods for the Spring are, (in order of importance, IMO, and according to my budget):

1. Nitto Drag Radials
2. Complete brake set-up from Todd TCE, (only because I DO NOT like the way my current after-market brakes feel... squishy and weak)
3. K&N Air filter charger installed by Lidio so he can tune
4. Eaton posi-traction, (because I'm already starting to see signs of disfunction with my stock LSD... one tire spinning during burnouts...)
5. 4.1 gears installed by Lidio so he can tune.

Then I should be done for a while??? :laugh:

[BillyGman]

About the stock "posi" unit on our car (Ford calls it "Trac-LOK") it just doesn't seem to be a real stiff "posi". One time when the steering wheel of my car was turned just slightly to the left side when I began a burnout, the left tire didn't spin while the right one smoked up good. It might have been just the way that the weight of the car was sitting also since it was in a driveway that isn't perfectly level nor flat(It was during the filming of my new burnout video ;) ) I have 22,000 miles on my Marauder so far, and 11,000 of those miles were after the S/Cer installation. So far, that's been an isolated incident for me since I've done a few burnouts since then and there were two healthy parallel strips of rubber that were left on the pavement which were also equal in length.

[SouLRioT]

Billy, you mentioned that you need to watch with the Nittos when its rainy. But like Chuck I live in Florida where it rains alot. Would there be a better tire for wet weather areas? Plus what do you (and anyone else) think about stiffing up the car with all that power, ie control arms, sway bars, ect?

[TechHeavy]

Billy, you mentioned that you need to watch with the Nittos when its rainy. But like Chuck I live in Florida where it rains alot. Would there be a better tire for wet weather areas? Plus what do you (and anyone else) think about stiffing up the car with all that power, ie control arms, sway bars, ect?
Great questions! Waiting to hear Billy's thoughts on these....

[BillyGman]

Here's what I think.......


The Nitto drag radials aren't too bad at all in the rain when they're new and for the first several thousand miles. Ofcourse it wouldn't be wise to drive really fast in the rain with them, nor hit the go pedal very hard either. But that goes for driving in the rain with ANY tires. The thing with the drag radials in the rain is that because they're made of softer rubber, and therefore will wear quicker than standard radial tires do on the street, it isn't more than several months after you buy them that the tread on them starts getting almost non-existent and they begin to look almost like a slick (if you're using them for the street Like John,Dave, and I have) since they don't have very deep treads when they're new to begin with. And when they get that low on the treads, then they get treacherous in the rain and you really have to slow down quite a bit to avoid hydroplaning. So you have to keep a real close eye on how the tread depth looks with those tires for street driving. But the benefit is that they do grab the asphalt better off the line than standard radials do even on the street. However, that's only when the temperatures are above 60 degrees.

I've also found (as has Dave aka "MI2QWIK4U") that when the temperatures begin to get cold outside, the Nitto drag radials get even worse traction on the street than the standard OEM tires do. So for the street they're more so a specialized summer tire than the OEM tires are. As far as gaining better traction through the aftermarket control arms that are available for the Marauder, I'm a bit skeptical about that. I'm quite sure that the control arms are good for tighter and faster cornering as are bigger sway bars if that's what you're into. But I'm not really into driving crazy around turns on the street anyway, since most turns and curves on the street are blind ones, and you don't know what's on the other side until you're already there. So it's a very big gamble every time you do that. And that's why I don't do that.

But if I wanted a great handling car that could pull alot of G-force around turns w/out spinning out, then I would've bought a much lighter car than the Marauder is in the first place. The Marauder has stiffer suspension as it is than the CV's and Marquis do, and that's enough for me. When you go and stiffen up the suspension, the ride stiffens up too and the bumps that you travel over won't get absorbed as well. That'sparticularly true with choosing thicker sway bars. They reduce the body roll around turns, but they will also cause you to feel the bumps more when only one side of the car is passing over them. If I wanted that, then I wouldn't have sold my Vette like I did. I don't think that the aftermarket control arms will stiffen up the ride at all, (but I also don't believe that they'll provide better traction off the line either) however they will cause the car to corner better if that's the kind of thing that you're looking for.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I drove John's car (aka "Jet") which has the after market brakes installed, and they work great. I was very impressed. However, I cannot get them for my Marauder since I wouldn't be able to use the 16 winter wheels and snow tires that I have. And just because the aftermarket bigger brakes stop better doesn't mean that I would call the factory Marauder brakes unsafe. They'ye still four wheel discs that provide decent stopping power. They're definately not as "unsafe" as driving the car in the winter w/out snow tires on (although I'm aware of the fact that Chuck lives in FLA). That's my 2 cents.
KVR makes a kit that will fit your wheels Billy

[BillyGman]

KVR makes a kit that will fit your wheels BillyOkay, thankyou for that info Dennis. I'll keep this in mind.

[Cobra25]

I have a question for Trilogy owners. After your supercharger was installed, what was the next mod you did on your car? [Carfixer installed the cooling mod shortly after the s/c went on.] I'm not planning on anything else, just curious. Although, I love the way Cobra25's exhaust sounds.:hmmm: Thank you on you comments on my exhaust. Even though I'm not a Trilogy owner at this time I don't know if the Trilogy kit comes with a 180 stat, but if it doesn't it is always better if the car runs a little cooler, as for the 410's you can't keep the tires on your car from melting as it is so I would hold of on that. My If I were you I'd do the exhaust & the Stallion T/C. Any how, just my thoughts. Happy New Year!

[BillyGman]

It really depends on what you want to do with the car, and what your goals are. Having taller gears will benefit you on the track off the line as well as in your 60' and 330' times which in turn would yield lower ET's. The torque converter will help too, but what the optimal stall speed is for a roots supercharged Marauder is debateable. my car does well with the stall speed at 3,000 RPM, but Lidio believes that the best would be closer to 2400 RPM's for a Trilogy equipped car. but I don't believe that he's actually experimented with any Trilogy Marauders with a 3,000 RPM stall speed. I'm not positive on that though, so it would be best to give him a call to ask him on that.

The reason that my Marauder does a better 60' time than some other ones that have up to 60 HP more at the wheels is because of the 4.56 gears it has. On the street you wouldn't be able to use all of that off-the-line acceleration, but once you get the tank moving about 30' out of the hole, then you can peg the gas pedal with the drag radials and it will hook-up. So the gears will still help you on the street. Just not as much as they will at the track.


At that track, even my car with the 4.56 gears hooks up perfectly off the line with the Nitto drag radials. And the gears cost $200 as opposed to the converter being $800. But that's assuming that you don't want to do both. :D

[TechHeavy]

About the stock "posi" unit on our car (Ford calls it "Trac-LOK") it just doesn't seem to be a real stiff "posi". One time when the steering wheel of my car was turned just slightly to the left side when I began a burnout, the left tire didn't spin while the right one smoked up good. It might have been just the way that the weight of the car was sitting also since it was in a driveway that isn't perfectly level nor flat(It was during the filming of my new burnout video ;) ) I have 22,000 miles on my Marauder so far, and 11,000 of those miles were after the S/Cer installation. So far, that's been an isolated incident for me since I've done a few burnouts since then and there were two healthy parallel strips of rubber that were left on the pavement which were also equal in length.
I hear ya Billy. I actually got to take my car out for a spin today. The temp was actually above freezing and it RAINED yesterday to wash the salt away, ( for salt-retentive guys like me, that's a must)!
On a deserted street I punched it and left two even strips of rubber for (X?) feet.... (at least 50).

So, you may have something there about the steering wheel.... ect. I know I'll be giving this a closer look in the Spring before committing to LSD upgrades. :)

[BillyGman]

I hear ya Billy. On a deserted street I punched it and left two even strips of rubber for (X?) feet.... (at least 50).

So, you may have something there about the steering wheel.... ect. I know I'll be giving this a closer look in the Spring before committing to LSD upgrades. :)I think it was Fordnut who said that a number of Ford's he's had with the "Trac-LOK" posi gave out at around 50,000 miles. I was always a General Motors customer prior to the Marauder, but from what I'm hearing, it seems that the stock "posi" clutches on the Ford's just aren't that robust, and therefore don't last very long whether you S/C the car in question or not. Perhaps they can go quicker if you add more HP to the equation though. The only thing I'm certain of is that mine is fine so far, but I only have 22,000 miles on the car so far.

Jet's Marauder has over 50,000 and his posi went, as did Dave's also. But then again, Barry's did too, and his Marauder isn't even S/Ced. And just keep in mind that when this happens, it isn't like the whole rear end blows, and the car cannot be driven. Infact, if it does happen, you won't even know it until you leave a strip of rubber, and you notice that only one mark was left on the pavement rather than two. But ofcourse having only one wheel powered will effct your ET's at the track in a negative way. So I'm just keeping about $600 set aside incase mine does go some day also. Because a new Eaton posi unit costs $400, (which is likely the best way to go) and the Powertrax "NO-SLIP" locker rear unti is $450 (which is another option I'd consider, although I've heard mixed reveiws about whether or not they will hold up to drag racing). ;)

[FordNut]

I think it was Fordnut who said that a number of Ford's he's had with the "Trac-LOK" posi gave out at around 50,000 miles. I was always a General Motors customer prior to the Marauder, but from what I'm hearing, it seems that the stock "posi" clutches on the Ford's just aren't that robust, and therefore don't last very long whether you S/C the car in question or not. Perhaps they can go quicker if you add more HP to the equation though. The only thing I'm certain of is that mine is fine so far, but I only have 22,000 miles on the car so far.

Jet's Marauder has over 50,000 and his posi went, as did Dave's also. But then again, Barry's did too, and his Marauder isn't even S/Ced. And just keep in mind that when this happens, it isn't like the whole rear end blows, and the car cannot be driven. Infact, if it does happen, you won't even know it until you leave a strip of rubber, and you notice that only one mark was left on the pavement rather than two. But ofcourse having only one wheel powered will effct your ET's at the track in a negative way. So I'm just keeping about $600 set aside incase mine does go some day also. Because a new Eaton posi unit costs $400, (which is likely the best way to go) and the Powertrax "NO-SLIP" locker rear unti is $450 (which is another option I'd consider, although I've heard mixed reveiws about whether or not they will hold up to drag racing). ;)
Mine is starting to do one-sided burnouts occasionally, I'm still N/A. I'll probably stay with OEM rebuilds until the 100k extended warranty is over, then change to the Auburn ECTED electric posi. Since I have a 300A, I can get the panel with traction lock switch from a 300B and use that switch for turning the electric posi on. With the posi turned off it is like a limited slip, with it on it is like a spool.

[FordNut]

Billy, you mentioned that you need to watch with the Nittos when its rainy. But like Chuck I live in Florida where it rains alot. Would there be a better tire for wet weather areas? Plus what do you (and anyone else) think about stiffing up the car with all that power, ie control arms, sway bars, ect?
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS 295/45-18 is a good all-weather choice.

[BillyGman]

Goodyear Eagle F1 GS 295/45-18 is a good all-weather choice.
Fordnut has a good point about the tires listed above^ being better in the rain. It's like many other things in this Hi-perf parts game: you just can't have it all. With most things, it's all about trade-offs, and what your priority is. This is just a typical example of that. The tires listed above are very good tires from what I've heard. They will reportedly grip the road better than the OEM tires will on both the dry pavement, as well as in the rain (atleast that is what I've heard). But for legal street driving on dry pavement, as well as drag racing at the track, you can't beat a drag radial tire for traction. So I'd say that if you can get an Eagle Goodyear tire in the needed 28"-29" overall height, then I think that it would be a better all around tire than any drag radial tire would be.

The Nittos on the other hand, just like any drag radial tires, are more of a specialty tire with a more narrow useage. And because of that, they're the best at delivering the most traction, especially right after they're heated up with a burnout. I've noticed that standard radial tires don't deliver a whole lot of additional traction after they're heated up pretty good like drag radials do right after they're heated up. I've also found that they do grab the street pavement better than the OEM's do, even without being heated up. This is why many of us roots S/Ced Marauder owners have gone with drag radials even on the street. These tires are for guys who are willing to trade-off some wet pavement traction characteristics for a little more dry pavement straight line traction. but the choice is yours, and there are definately trade-offs, and compromises. I hope this helps to explain this tire thing.

[SergntMac]

There's two sides to the traction issue. Generally speaking, what doesn't launch well, will not stop well. In both situations, a 4400 pound car isn't easy to deal with.

Road tires, like the Eagle F1 mentioned, start life with 11/32" of tread. Nitto and BFG drag radials come with 6/32" tread depth. All are legally bald at 2/32" TD. Lower TD provides more contact patch, which is good on dry pavement. However, once the weather changes, such narrow tread depth does not channel water away from the contact patch, and you will hydroplane. The heavier the car and the wider the contact patch, the more it will hydroplane.

Improving rear control arms is beneficial across the board, not just driving in the twisties. If the rationale behind UD pulleys is to reduce parasitic drag and make that power available to the rear wheels, and the rationale behind the Stallion TC is to reduce parasitic drag and improve torque conversion, likewise moving more power to the rear wheels, then improving rear suspension is a logical mod to consider.

All suspension systems flex, and as you build more power, you build more flex. Torque intended for the rear wheels is lost in torque absorbing suspension components, power meant for the rear wheels is diverted into soft suspension components. If you have felt the difference between the OEM sway bar, and DR's sway bar, you know what I mean. Reduce flex and you'll gain more power to the ground. Improve your OEM control arms, you'll see the difference in launch on your first try. Ask anyone here who has...Just my .02c.

[BillyGman]

....and so there you have it.....opinions from different viewpoints.......I hope that we've helped you out in some way here. Atleast you now know of what specific questions to ask various suspension and tire customers via the PM system here on the board. Which is what you should do. Sometimes there are people who are afraid to say anything negative at all on the board about anything they've bought from any vendors here in anticipation of the wrath of the powers that be. So sending several customers of the products that you're considering a PM is always a good thing.

There are definately a number of go-fast products sold by the vendors of this board that you would not here anything negative said nor written about them. However, there are as I've said, trade-offs when it comes to many products you can purchase. Many times, you have to sacrifice one thing to get another. And sometimes you have to go behind the scenes via PM, e-mail, or telephone to get the straight scoop from some people. I think that's especially important when you're considering a high dollar item such as a S/Cer kit for instance. That's why I literally spoke to 4 Trilogy customers on the telephone (two of them twice) and seven of them via PM a few times, as well as one of them who isn't even on this board, nor never has been, to get answers and comments BEFORE I bought the Trilogy kit (which was serial kit #24). (BTW, I didn't hear anything negative about that product either, and after having it on my Marauder now for 11,000 miles, I can see why ;) ).

[Logan]

There are definately a number of go-fast products sold by the vendors of this board that you would not here anything negative said nor written about them.
Bullcrap. You spew all sorts of garbage about products you've never even seen let alone owned.


:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

[BillyGman]

Bullcrap. You spew all sorts of garbage about products you've never even seen let alone owned.


:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:Like what for instance? Can you give me a quote from this board? I thought that if you had a problem with me, then you would PM me about it as you always suggested that all of us members here do when we have a problem with eachother. :confused:

....oh, and BTW, I think that you've taken the words in that quote all the wrong way Logan. What I was pointing out was that even when people have the freedom and liberty to be honest about everything, there will often be nothing that's said negative about the parts that they buy from vendors here since there often is NOT anything negative to be said about them since many of them ARE good parts.

[SergntMac]

Like what for instance? Can you give me a quote from this board? I thought that if you had a problem with me, then you would PM me about it as you always suggested that all of us members here do when we have a problem with each other.
I deleted my reply to this topic in the past, but I am not going to delete it again.

IMHO, this needs to be said, and I don't care if Logan likes my post, or not. IMHO, if I earn a suspension, or, get banned, it's worth it just to tell the truth.

Sometimes there are people who are afraid to say anything negative at all on the board about anything they've bought from any vendors here in anticipation of the wrath of the powers that be. So sending several customers of the products that you're considering a PM is always a good thing.
I agree with you, Bully, we should strive to discover the truth in all matters, despite the outcome as it appears here in posted print. This has been my position from the beginning. All vendors selling us product here risk their advertising against our own field testing of their product. Truth vs. boast.

I field test more than anyone else here, and I post my facts as I see them. I warn every vendor who's wares I sample, that I will post my truth too, just ask them.

Ask Dennis Reinhart what kind of grief I have given him over the past 3 years, go ahead, ask. Every mod he offers us has been field tested by me, and I have tested for safety, and for performance. I have run him through my mill and without mercy. Ask him...

Ask Wes Chain how I went through his shorts over delete tips, coil cover thumbscrews, and custom engine plates.

Ask ToddTCE how I raked his SS lines over the coals.

Ask Lidio what kind of j*go*ff I was standing in his shop after a 400 mile road trip in the snow.

Ask Jerry Barnes what kind of pr*ck I was over details at his first open house.

Ask Kenny Brown via David Frey and Rich Cottrell what kind of resident pr*ck I came to be by visiting Kenny's shop in Indy without any warning.

Ask Jerry W. and Pete what it's like to have me in their garage.

Don't forget to ask Pande...Anything.

Brad Bockstanz....Anything.

"Dyno Dave," Paul, Carl, Brian, or, the rest of them in around lower MI.

Go ahead, ask any of them I have named, if I didn't go through their stuff panning for truth. Ask any of them if I didn't bust balls while checking them out. Go ahead, ask!

I would hate myself for the rest of my life should someone take my advice and hurt themselves, or, a member of their family, just because I told them here..."You're good to go." on any particular MM mod.

I have posted my facts about mounting 305/45/18 Nittos on 9.5" rims, and I included advice/guidance from the specialist in the market. Specialists better than the manfacturers, retailers, and vendors, I went all the way back to the product producers. And, all I heard from you, here, is inflamatory flak, garbage. Crap. Just because you own a set of Nittos, and love burnouts.

Bulls*it.

You never PMd me, Billy.
You never e-mailed me, Billy.
You never called me over the telephone as you have before.

Yet, I have seen your advice posted to others here, and it's changed. In other threads here, you now advise others of a "safe rim size" as I have cautioned you about, and without more than giving me crap over it here.

"Afraid to question vendors"? Indeed. Not me, pal.

Dude...You are as bogus as they come.

[Logan]

Like what for instance? Can you give me a quote from this board? I thought that if you had a problem with me, then you would PM me about it as you always suggested that all of us members here do when we have a problem with eachother. :confused:

....oh, and BTW, I think that you've taken the words in that quote all the wrong way Logan. What I was pointing out was that even when people have the freedom and liberty to be honest about everything, there will often be nothing that's said negative about the parts that they buy from vendors here since there often is NOT anything negative to be said about them since many of them ARE good parts.
I don't whether to :rofl: , :bigcry: , or just :shake:. Maybe I'll just do all three and have a drink.

Thread closed before this thread needs to be taken to the curb.

Mac... Are you trying to say you're a prick? Maybe, but I like pricks. Wait... That REALLY didn't come out right. :beer: