Todd TCE
01-04-2005, 07:29 PM
Given the time passing and my not posting on a regular basis...and with new members coming in perhaps it's time we re visit big brakes. A few have asked about the kits based on technical data I've posted of late on the fundamentals of the BBK. All that and a lot of HP just means it's time to think about slowing that ride!
Basic brakes;
With a market of a few kits out there for you MM what makes TCE kits better or different than the others?
TCE kits are all multi piston calipers produced by one of the industy leaders; Wilwood. These calipers are then paired with custom built aluminum hats and fully directional cast top grade iron rotors. Pad choice for many of these calipers exceed that of some of the others and the combined kit weight is less than what it replaces. TCE is the only (correct me if wrong) FIXED mount caliper kit for your vehicle. Fixed mount means no floating caliper mount or guide pins. Rotors are clamped by both sides via multi piston calipers. This leads to both improved clamp and release characteristics as well as a firmer more responsive pedal.
Rotors on both the TCE front and TCE rear kits are directional cast for improved air flow. They can be had in a vast assortment of rotor finishes; slotted, drilled, both and zinc plated. All ala carte. Meaning each is produced to YOUR needs.
Pads are mostly Wilwood/Raybestos Polymatrix pads available in a number of compounds from mild to wild. Both the front and rear kits also include basic mounting hardware and SS braided hoses. You only supply the brake fluid.
TCE and a proper biased brake kit: often when building kits the first thing to do is select the largest parts one can fit and declare them 'the best'. This is simply a quick way to sell the all American bigger is better theme. Proper brake bias or balance is achieved by way of enhancing one or both ends of the car in a manner that makes both ends of the vehicle work to aide your stopping. And stopping alone is not the sole benefit of a BBK. Proper thermal management is crucial. Stock brakes work fine the first or second stop. The real test is doing this over and over with the same results.
To achieve the best vehicle braking it also helps to have all four wheels doing your braking. In this manner all TCE kits take this into account and make the rear end help brake as well as the front. A car doing all its braking up front is just leaving too much on the table.
Now for some hard math: Let's assume all brake pads are equal for some number crunching. We'll call the pad cf .40 for the math. The stock MM comes with a bias of about 70/30 brake effort.This means that the fronts do about 70% of the work of course. TCE front kits alter this a bit to 67/33 and do so with improved pedal feel and quicker response time. Add a TCE rear kit to this and the bias shifts to favor the rear a bit more at to a workable 64/36 distribution. This means that your car brakes not only firmer but also does so in a much flatter plane. Another kit boosts this % to a full 76/24 thus nearly negating the entire effectiveness of your rear brakes! From past experience the ideal static bias of your car will be about 65/35 given the wheel base and weight. Some very minor pad tuning of the TCE kit puts this right at 65/35. Yes there is some planning put into this! When you brake hard you want the % to shift forward with weight transfer, not all at one time. This is done by way of pad tuning. As the mass moves forward the pad increases it's bite and matches that of the required torque. This is dynamic brake bias. The key is to work the rear as long as you can rather than 'dumping' all the work on the fronts.
For the past seven or so years TCE has used this same basic formula and parts on the Impala SS. Granted it's not a Ford but you know what; it's dynamics are nearly identical. TCE has produced kits for the SS for street, strip, show and LOTS of open track use (ok maybe they are a bit of a nutty crowd) and to date we have produced nearly 140 front kits and about 45 rears. Those kind of numbers in this industry only come from success, not trial and error at the parts bin.
What fits and what don't. Now you know how it works but what will fit and what won't. All 13.1" TCE kits are forced to be produced with only a 1.10" wide rotor. The fit of a 1.25" rotor is hindered by the flat form of your wheel. Don't go hiding just yet though. Before somone says "I told you so" remember that disc width has nothing to do with brake torque. A solid half inch disc of 13" will stop your car just as well. The limit of termal capacity of a 1.10 rotor vs 1.25 is going to only show itself on the extended use of an open road course or similar use. Your pads will give out long before your rotors....Still however, some want more and TCE is here to offer it. We also do a 14" rotor kit which is in 1.25 width form! (and honestly we can do a very, very stout, race worthy 13" kit as well) This requires a wheel change. There's only so much room to put such large parts behind such un brake friendly wheels!
Let's talk price on a front kit: I must point out however that this price IS going to go up very soon. Added costs here have simply forced this.
13.1 x 1.10 DV rotors, Wilwood BSLn calipers, Poly Q pads, hoses, brackets and all the parts and pieces; $1279
Options list;
Drill $125
Slot $55
Both $125
Zinc $65
Want to go LARGE? Factor the 14" kit, built by order only to add $575 to this base price above.
Now let's look at the rear: And again I'm certain that in the coming months the price will go up a bit. Both due to the custom nature of building it as well as hard parts cost. Remember both of these kits were priced out months ago!
Last year TCE worked long and hard on finding a way to produce kits and effective results on the rear of the MM. Below is an edit of what it took. >>>
****************************** ******************
The rears will be 13 x .81DV (using the same rotor as the Impala) and be offered with the FSL caliper.
The kit will include; new hats (drums) and Directional Vaned 13" rootrs, FSL calipers and the user friendly Q pads. Also of course; hoses and hardware. The kicker is the replacement of the factory mounting plate and its 'core return policy' of exchanging the one on your car now. This will add a REFUNDABLE $300 to the kit price. Also needed on the rear is work on the C clips of the rear axles. This is a lobor kit, not for the weak.
Base price of the kit is set. Cost: $1479 plus rotor finish options.
****************************** ******************
So what's the final tab on a front and rear combo kit??
Depending upon options and front kit diameter; about $3k =/- a few bucks, plus shipping and refundable core charge. Of course you don't HAVE to do both ends at one time either.
Is it worth it do do this? That's up to you. It's a bargain however compared to the new Magnum kits at $2100 front and planned $1200 rear. Without rotor finish options! The MM kits still remain a real bargain!!
I hope this has helped new members to understand what is out there for the MM from my company. Like any other product; shop smartly.
Basic brakes;
With a market of a few kits out there for you MM what makes TCE kits better or different than the others?
TCE kits are all multi piston calipers produced by one of the industy leaders; Wilwood. These calipers are then paired with custom built aluminum hats and fully directional cast top grade iron rotors. Pad choice for many of these calipers exceed that of some of the others and the combined kit weight is less than what it replaces. TCE is the only (correct me if wrong) FIXED mount caliper kit for your vehicle. Fixed mount means no floating caliper mount or guide pins. Rotors are clamped by both sides via multi piston calipers. This leads to both improved clamp and release characteristics as well as a firmer more responsive pedal.
Rotors on both the TCE front and TCE rear kits are directional cast for improved air flow. They can be had in a vast assortment of rotor finishes; slotted, drilled, both and zinc plated. All ala carte. Meaning each is produced to YOUR needs.
Pads are mostly Wilwood/Raybestos Polymatrix pads available in a number of compounds from mild to wild. Both the front and rear kits also include basic mounting hardware and SS braided hoses. You only supply the brake fluid.
TCE and a proper biased brake kit: often when building kits the first thing to do is select the largest parts one can fit and declare them 'the best'. This is simply a quick way to sell the all American bigger is better theme. Proper brake bias or balance is achieved by way of enhancing one or both ends of the car in a manner that makes both ends of the vehicle work to aide your stopping. And stopping alone is not the sole benefit of a BBK. Proper thermal management is crucial. Stock brakes work fine the first or second stop. The real test is doing this over and over with the same results.
To achieve the best vehicle braking it also helps to have all four wheels doing your braking. In this manner all TCE kits take this into account and make the rear end help brake as well as the front. A car doing all its braking up front is just leaving too much on the table.
Now for some hard math: Let's assume all brake pads are equal for some number crunching. We'll call the pad cf .40 for the math. The stock MM comes with a bias of about 70/30 brake effort.This means that the fronts do about 70% of the work of course. TCE front kits alter this a bit to 67/33 and do so with improved pedal feel and quicker response time. Add a TCE rear kit to this and the bias shifts to favor the rear a bit more at to a workable 64/36 distribution. This means that your car brakes not only firmer but also does so in a much flatter plane. Another kit boosts this % to a full 76/24 thus nearly negating the entire effectiveness of your rear brakes! From past experience the ideal static bias of your car will be about 65/35 given the wheel base and weight. Some very minor pad tuning of the TCE kit puts this right at 65/35. Yes there is some planning put into this! When you brake hard you want the % to shift forward with weight transfer, not all at one time. This is done by way of pad tuning. As the mass moves forward the pad increases it's bite and matches that of the required torque. This is dynamic brake bias. The key is to work the rear as long as you can rather than 'dumping' all the work on the fronts.
For the past seven or so years TCE has used this same basic formula and parts on the Impala SS. Granted it's not a Ford but you know what; it's dynamics are nearly identical. TCE has produced kits for the SS for street, strip, show and LOTS of open track use (ok maybe they are a bit of a nutty crowd) and to date we have produced nearly 140 front kits and about 45 rears. Those kind of numbers in this industry only come from success, not trial and error at the parts bin.
What fits and what don't. Now you know how it works but what will fit and what won't. All 13.1" TCE kits are forced to be produced with only a 1.10" wide rotor. The fit of a 1.25" rotor is hindered by the flat form of your wheel. Don't go hiding just yet though. Before somone says "I told you so" remember that disc width has nothing to do with brake torque. A solid half inch disc of 13" will stop your car just as well. The limit of termal capacity of a 1.10 rotor vs 1.25 is going to only show itself on the extended use of an open road course or similar use. Your pads will give out long before your rotors....Still however, some want more and TCE is here to offer it. We also do a 14" rotor kit which is in 1.25 width form! (and honestly we can do a very, very stout, race worthy 13" kit as well) This requires a wheel change. There's only so much room to put such large parts behind such un brake friendly wheels!
Let's talk price on a front kit: I must point out however that this price IS going to go up very soon. Added costs here have simply forced this.
13.1 x 1.10 DV rotors, Wilwood BSLn calipers, Poly Q pads, hoses, brackets and all the parts and pieces; $1279
Options list;
Drill $125
Slot $55
Both $125
Zinc $65
Want to go LARGE? Factor the 14" kit, built by order only to add $575 to this base price above.
Now let's look at the rear: And again I'm certain that in the coming months the price will go up a bit. Both due to the custom nature of building it as well as hard parts cost. Remember both of these kits were priced out months ago!
Last year TCE worked long and hard on finding a way to produce kits and effective results on the rear of the MM. Below is an edit of what it took. >>>
****************************** ******************
The rears will be 13 x .81DV (using the same rotor as the Impala) and be offered with the FSL caliper.
The kit will include; new hats (drums) and Directional Vaned 13" rootrs, FSL calipers and the user friendly Q pads. Also of course; hoses and hardware. The kicker is the replacement of the factory mounting plate and its 'core return policy' of exchanging the one on your car now. This will add a REFUNDABLE $300 to the kit price. Also needed on the rear is work on the C clips of the rear axles. This is a lobor kit, not for the weak.
Base price of the kit is set. Cost: $1479 plus rotor finish options.
****************************** ******************
So what's the final tab on a front and rear combo kit??
Depending upon options and front kit diameter; about $3k =/- a few bucks, plus shipping and refundable core charge. Of course you don't HAVE to do both ends at one time either.
Is it worth it do do this? That's up to you. It's a bargain however compared to the new Magnum kits at $2100 front and planned $1200 rear. Without rotor finish options! The MM kits still remain a real bargain!!
I hope this has helped new members to understand what is out there for the MM from my company. Like any other product; shop smartly.