GM serious about power

[bigslim]

I see good old Ford is gonna get left in the dust. Chrysler has their 340-425 hp hemi's. Now GM is putting 400hp engines in CTS's and 440hp engines in their STS's. They are also putting V-8's in the Grand Prix and Impalla. The Grand Prix will have a 280hp V-8 in it as an option and the Impalla and Monte Carlo will have 302hp V-8's in their cars next year. When is Ford gonna get off their a$$es and put some power in their cars? Guess my next car won't be a Ford.

[dwasson]

Ford just doesn't want my business anymore. Chrysler and GM (more Chrysler) seem willing to produce a big, comfortable, RWD car with enough HP and style to be worth making the payments on. If I'm going to be making a $400 car payment it better give me something that makes it worth while. I make enough payments on boring stuff.

[stevengerard]

The new 300C SRT 8 is going to be an awesome car right off the dealer lot. Once again I prefer the MM but man between the GTO, CTS-V, STS-V, 300C and the upcoming Charger there are a lot of great cars by the other 2. I don't get it. Yeah the 300C is a new look but everyone acts like a nice looking car with a high hp/tq engine is a revolution, didn't we have 40 of these choices in 1970.

[04MEMA]

I was amazed a year or two ago when I heard that Licoln was canceling a supercharged LS that was in the works. They aren't going to try and compete with the CTSV and the others in that class. Instead of going RWD like Caddy, Licoln's going FWD with AWD option. That's just plain dumb. RWD for the purest, AWD for people who need more all weather capabilities or what not. Who's the competition that's kicking Lincoln's A*s? What are they doing right? How can Lincoln do it better?

What exciting products does Ford have left? Mustang and the GT? The trucks are good. Hmmm... Ranger's ancient though. The GT is so friggin sweet. But there's nothing in the lineup that even comes close to benefitting from the showroom draw the GT can bring. The MM was the Mustang for the family guy. Every article I read about the MM said it was underpowered for a self proclaimed muscle car. Ford did not respond with more power. MM was canceled. MM, the car that was supposed to help give Mercury a new image - dumped.

Oh well, I guess when Toyota buys Ford we'll still be able to buy GM products... And man looks like we'll have a lot of choices. I've driven GTO's they're nice. And that CTSV - watch out man! Soon the STSV. Keeps getting better.

Oh, and now that I'm ranting - why do only super expensive cars get to look so good? Why doesn't somebody make a car that looks similar to a Ferrari 360 Modena and make it an econo car? The Scion brand is supposed to attract young buyers - wouldn't exotic car styling with econocar underpinnings and price tag get kids excited?

Okay off the :soapbox: for a minute...

Jeff :burnout:

[FiveO]

My next car probably won't be a Ford either.

They look at their Mustang and think its the be all end all of cars. Its not.

Its a nice car...but every TD&H on the block has one.

Forget it. Gimme something with limited availability and good performance with a good aftermarket...like the Marauder.

If they don't get on the ball...I'll keep my vintage Mustang and go with something GM. God forbid :(

[BillyGman]

Forget it. Gimme something with limited availability and good performance with a good aftermarket...like the Marauder.I understand and agree with what you've said however, we can't overlook how fortunate and even downright lucky we've all been as Marauder owners. I say that because I believe that the sole reason why we've had as much aftermarket support for our Marauders is because of Logan starting this board. Some of you might be shocked to see me making that claim since Logan and I don't always see eye to eye, but I must give credit where I believe it IS due. And in this case it IS due to Logan and to this board in general. Look at all the vendors we have here, and all the hi-perf products for the Marauder that we have access to from those vendors. From brake upgrades and rim widening services, to headers and supercharges, etc., etc., etc......

Some members have stated on this board that they believe that there will be hi-perf parts available soon like headers and aftermarket torque converters for cars like the 300C and the Dodge Magnum, but I don't think that's neccessarily true. Atleast not to the extent that there has been for the Marauder in such a short amount of time. What I'm saying is that you just can't take for granted how many go-fast parts us Marauder owners have available to us. It doesn't happen so quickly, and so abundantly with just any car like it has with the Marauder. Especially cars that have such a limited production like the Marauder had. I also think that it's because of what a good looking car the Marauder is. Therefore it simply has drawn attention like many late model cars will NOT do. there's no way you're gonna ever convince me that any Caddy, or Dodge magnum will ever draw as much attention as it's crusing down the street as a Marauder does. Just won't ever happen. ;)

Unfortunately the boneheads at mercury do NOT realize this, or don't even care. :shake: .....I'm just glad that I got myself one. :banana2:

[FiveO]

I'd agree with you Billy as far as Logan and this site is concerned...but one thing remains:

Several parts of the Marauder are compatible to other cars....tranny, engine (basic mods), etc.

High end mods are available because of people like Logan and others on this site. Trilogy, Kooks, etc....to that end I agree with you.

Just realize that if this engine and car were like say my 1999 SHO...with a total of 20,000 made (no other car got the 96-99 SHO engine)....then we might be talking a different story...IE: Less aftermarket.

Just ask the V8 SHO people. The aftermarket sucks.

[bigslim]

Billy, you have to understand that a lot of our parts were available because of this engine was already in use and the platform had been around forever. You better believe that GM will have aftermarket parts for their GTO and Impalla. Remember, a lot of the upgrades that work for the Vette will work for the GTO and the engine going in the Impalla is their workhorse 5.3 V8 that has been around. The bad thing is that the Impalla and Monte Carlo will remain front-wheel-drive.

[BillyGman]

Yes, I think you guys are correct about the 4.6L engine. It's really because of the Mustangs also having the 4.6L too. But remember that things such as the Kooks headers, and I believe the Stallion Torque converters as well as the aftermarket driveshafts are all Marauder specific and have nothing to do with any other cars. ;) And look at the Trilogy kit. It's only now that it's been in production for the Marauder for well over one year that the company has decided to offer it for the Mustang and for the F-150's.

I think the GTO sales will flop, but not because of lack of advertising like the Marauder endured. But rather due to how ugly the car is. And the Caddy's aren't any different in the looks department IMO. Not to mention that most V8 performance enthusiasts will never take the FWD cars too seriously. Which covers the other cars you've mentioned.

[rayjay]

I think Ford is more interested in their personal use trucks than their cars. The vast majority of their ads are for the pickup truck lineup. Maybe the T-Bird debacle left a bad taste in their mouth. As far as the after market, without this site there probably wouldn't be one. I think we are lucky there as much as there is considering the small build numbers of the Marauder. I just wish there was more of a choice out there. I was used to the Focus aftermarket which is huge. Here we have a choice of 2 aftermarket exhausts. I can't even remember how many there are for the Focus, all trying to out do the other guy. Anyway, we atleast have dedicated, knowledgeable suppliers and tuners for a small niche car.

[jerrym3]

Except for the Mustang, Ford's appears afraid to build a car for the masses that will outperform the Jaguar line.

Unless there's a space issue, why else would they not offer the Jag SR motor in the Lincoln LS (LSR?) or the TBird) as an option? Same question for the Jag S 6 speed auto trans.

Or at least boost the 3.9 V8 in either car to the 4.2 294 hp Jag version.

Even if this is the TBird's last year, they should be embarassed offering a "50th Anniversary Model" that's nothing more than a different exterior color (Cashmere) and a few interior modifications. Why not go out in a blaze of glory offering the Jag SR drivetrain on the 50th Anniversary model ??

Instead, we get Vovo and Mazda makeovers as the future of Ford vehicles.

Sad.

[bigslim]

Except for the Mustang, Ford's appears afraid to build a car for the masses that will outperform the Jaguar line.

Unless there's a space issue, why else would they not offer the Jag SR motor in the Lincoln LS (LSR?) or the TBird) as an option? Same question for the Jag S 6 speed auto trans.

Or at least boost the 3.9 V8 in either car to the 4.2 294 hp Jag version.

Even if this is the TBird's last year, they should be embarassed offering a "50th Anniversary Model" that's nothing more than a different exterior color (Cashmere) and a few interior modifications. Why not go out in a blaze of glory offering the Jag SR drivetrain on the 50th Anniversary model ??

Instead, we get Vovo and Mazda makeovers as the future of Ford vehicles.

Sad.
That is a good point. I don't understand why the 3.0 V6 in the Five Hundred puts out 203hp when the same engine in the Mazda 6 puts out 220 and the same engine in the V6 LS puts out 240hp. The Five Hundred is heavier and should have the most power but doesn't.

[wchain]

I see good old Ford is gonna get left in the dust. Chrysler has their 340-425 hp hemi's. Now GM is putting 400hp engines in CTS's and 440hp engines in their STS's. They are also putting V-8's in the Grand Prix and Impalla. The Grand Prix will have a 280hp V-8 in it as an option and the Impalla and Monte Carlo will have 302hp V-8's in their cars next year. When is Ford gonna get off their a$$es and put some power in their cars? Guess my next car won't be a Ford.


Seems that Ford makes cars that are great for Companies and Rental Fleets and thats about it.....

Remember when the Taurus launched in late 85? It broke the mold for Sedans.
Now, its a textbook definition of Rental/Company car. Nobody goes out and wants to buy a Taurus. The same thing will happen with the 500 unless Ford Pumps some macho into it. I hear a 3.5L V6 is in the works.

That same Corporate 3.0L "Duratec" V6 is a distant cousin of the Mazda 2.5L V6 that was in the MX-6 and Probes of long ago. It seems like its gonna be their bread and butter motor now, since its in EVERYTHING.
Sable,Taurus, Escape, 500, Freestyle, Lincoln LS, Jag S-Type, Montego, Mazda 6, Tribute.
They're pouring all their R&D money into Trucks and SUVs, which are probably a lot more profitable than Cars.

Go by a Ford Dealer here in Texas. Acres of Explorers, Expeditions, Excursions, FSeries Trucks, Windstars, COnversion Vans, mabye 20 Taruii, 1 Vic, Smattering of Mustangs, a Few Foci and thats about it.

[Stew]

Yes, I think you guys are correct about the 4.6L engine. It's really because of the Mustangs also having the 4.6L too. But remember that things such as the Kooks headers, and I believe the Stallion Torque converters as well as the aftermarket driveshafts are all Marauder specific and have nothing to do with any other cars. ;) And look at the Trilogy kit. It's only now that it's been in production for the Marauder for well over one year that the company has decided to offer it for the Mustang and for the F-150's.

I think the GTO sales will flop, but not because of lack of advertising like the Marauder endured. But rather due to how ugly the car is. And the Caddy's aren't any different in the looks department IMO. Not to mention that most V8 performance enthusiasts will never take the FWD cars too seriously. Which covers the other cars you've mentioned.

I have to disagree, i think the GTO is really starting to catch on, especially with the addition of the LS2, the CTS-V has been a great success and the STS-V just looks mean as hell! As for the Monte and Impala, those I am not sure on. I don't think the 04-05 SSs were exactly super sellers and I don't know if the addition of a V8 will help here. Maybe if they design a new interior, especially for the Impala. my cousin has a 04 Impala SS and I swear that interion made the interior on my old Caprice look exciting...... Now if Ford would have offered the SCed Cobra Motor in the Marauder (with a realistic price of around 40k) IMHO, it would have been a hit even at a higher price. They could have even adapted a makeshift IRS like in the newer Cobras for the Marauder to really make it stand out and compete with the German cars and 300s...... Or, like mentioned, offer the SCed Jag motor in the LS. Ah, yes, we'll never see anything like this from Ford though, way too busy trying to play it safe......

[TripleTransAm]

I agree. A factory SC'ed Marauder would have been a killer in the market place. Add a dash of quality-assurance into the mix, and it would have been Ford's saving grace. Heck, when there was a rumour of a 2005 1/2 factory SC'ed Marauder, I was seriously considering buying a second one (one for winter / wife, one for summer). So instead I built a new house... *shrug*

[jaywish]

The site, logan, and the rest of you have made the Marauder a much better car for almost everyone here.

But Ford is into marketing plans. these are just my rambling thoughts but hey,

Ford is hung up on distinctions, for instance as far as I know you can't get a black gut in a full sized car, except in a lincoln. Thats' why the marauders are charcoal, not black.

This is my guess as to why the 500 gets lower HP than the higher nich relatives.

Mazda and Volvo might be filling that 'zoom zoom' nich for FMC. But I can't say I pay attention to the Mazda line, Volvo either, but both Mazda & volvo get some advert $ to show they are sporty now.

Maybe that leaves the Ford nameplate for those who want "sensible"?

Jag gets the best, lincoln is next, etc.

I must say that I do expect ford to try something spiff soon. Probably 06. All the management and shareholders can't be ignoring the competition strategy.

Like I said, just rambles,

Jay

[FastMerc]

:) Yes I agree that Logan has done a good job with the site and gave the Marauder owners and fans a place to keep the Marauder alive and fast,Thank you Logan. Now as for Ford what the hell is there f@#%$&* PROBLEM,PERSONALY I will never by a car from an Asian named company wether Ford ownes them or not,a car named 6 is no relacement for Mustang or Cougar,Marauder etc.etc.etc. I can remember when detroit wasnt affraid to pump out big cube Muscle cars when the imports were just cheap little gas misers.You know what they are still cheap little misers just with bigger price tags just under the american machines.:woohoo: People say ive got a Lexus no you just got a expensive relabled TOYOTA:D Enough about that my Marauder turns heads every time im out in it:banana: and Im one of the few tht has one,there isnt no GTO that will turn heads like that.A corvette will catch the eye before a GTO.Ford cannot relace its heritage with imports or selling all sensible cars with no more fun cars?

[Mike Poore]

I see good old Ford is gonna get left in the dust. Chrysler has their 340-425 hp hemi's. Now GM is putting 400hp engines in CTS's and 440hp engines in their STS's. They are also putting V-8's in the Grand Prix and Impalla. The Grand Prix will have a 280hp V-8 in it as an option and the Impalla and Monte Carlo will have 302hp V-8's in their cars next year. When is Ford gonna get off their a$$es and put some power in their cars? Guess my next car won't be a Ford.
Well, we don't have to get a new wizz mobile every year, and these Marauders are never gonna get stale. I, unlike some of you, feel that Ford will do something spectacular, and it's my bet there's gonna be a high performance Crown Vic Sport or some such. There's a new SVT team, and they must have noticed the Marauder, not to mention the 300C. What's the chance they'll drop the Lightning motor in a CV? After all these years I'm not ready to count 'em out. :)

[bigslim]

Well, we don't have to get a new wizz mobile every year, and these Marauders are never gonna get stale. I, unlike some of you, feel that Ford will do something spectacular, and it's my bet there's gonna be a high performance Crown Vic Sport or some such. There's a new SVT team, and they must have noticed the Marauder, not to mention the 300C. What's the chance they'll drop the Lightning motor in a CV? After all these years I'm not ready to count 'em out. :)
SVT Team??? They can't even get the Lightning right! It will be hard for me to believe that Ford will do something with the Panther platform as in terms of performance. I work for the company and find it so hard to say anything nice about their product line. All I can say is thank God my brother works for Chrysler and my Sister-In-Law works for GM.

[Joe Walsh]

'FORD': 203hp 500s, 300hp Mustangs.....ummmmmm, errrr, Tha...tha...tha...that's all folks! :(
'THEM': 400hp GTOs, 425hp SRT-8s, 500hp Z06s....Oh My!!! :eek:

P.S. GT doesn't count as you could buy 3,4 or 5 of the competitors cars for 150+ large.

[Silver_04]

This is like the 60's all over again and I'm gonna keep buying more exciting cars as long as I can do so...therefore I won't be buying anything associated with the Blew Oval. Ford is going to have to do something amazing soon and quick or they will just be Honda's truck division.

But I will admit I just sold the Vette for an overpriced Toyota/Lexus IS300 SportCross. Sure, it only has 215 horsepower but it's has RWD and has an I-6 and is uber quiet with great handling...and the domestic mfgrs make nothing that compete with this car which is too bad. Also got a great factory warranty: bumper to bumper 4year/50k mile warranty and the 6year/70k powertrain warranty. We shall see how this grand experiment unfolds...

[bigslim]

This is like the 60's all over again and I'm gonna keep buying more exciting cars as long as I can do so...therefore I won't be buying anything with associated with the Blew Oval. Ford is going to have to do something amazing soon and quick or they will just be Honda's truck division.

But I will admit I just sold the Vette for an overpriced Toyota/Lexus IS300 SportCross. Sure, it only has 215 horsepower but it's has RWD and has an I-6 and is uber quiet with great handling...and the domestic mfgrs make nothing that compete with this car which is too bad. Also got a great factory warranty: bumper to bumper 4year/50k mile warranty and the 6year/70k powertrain warranty. We shall see how this grand experiment unfolds...
You got rid of the Vette for a slow, compact, rice car???

[Silver_04]

You got rid of the Vette for a slow, compact, rice car???

Hey! Watch your language :D Yup...I'll be owning rice next week. However this is all part of an elaborate scheme to get a new C6 Z06 in a couple of years...well, at least it makes sense in my head.

Edit: Well, depending on your frame of reference this rice burner is just about as slow or fast as a stock Marauder. But it is faster than a German PT Cruiser, and it has more room than the compact Corvette.

[chicago_cop]

The new 300C SRT 8 is going to be an awesome car right off the dealer lot. Once again I prefer the MM but man between the GTO, CTS-V, STS-V, 300C and the upcoming Charger there are a lot of great cars by the other 2. I don't get it. Yeah the 300C is a new look but everyone acts like a nice looking car with a high hp/tq engine is a revolution, didn't we have 40 of these choices in 1970.


Drove a Dodge Magnum. My Daughters. Great car w/ 5speed manumatic for 30K. Feels very solid. Benz trans.
On the other side of the coin. It's not much faster than a MM. .5 seconds in the quarter. As far as the 425 HP 300, it will cost high 40's or 50k. The Caddy's much more. HP costs money. The CTS V is about 50K, and the STS with just 320hp is in the 60s.
MM is still best car for the money. The MM looks Fast just standing still, and wouldn't trade for any of the more high priced sleds.

[bigslim]

Hey! Watch your language :D Yup...I'll be owning rice next week. However this is all part of an elaborate scheme to get a new C6 Z06 in a couple of years...well, at least it makes sense in my head.

Edit: Well, depending on your frame of reference this rice burner is just about as slow or fast as a stock Marauder. But it is faster than a German PT Cruiser, and it has more room than the compact Corvette.
Why do people say it's a German PT? It was developed before Mercedes bought them. By the way, I have seen some pretty fast turbocharged PTs. At a meet this year there was one running a supercharger so be careful what you run up against in that fancy imported wagon. Oh hell, I mean "Rice Wagon". By the way, good luck on getting a new Z06. They are sweet with their 500hp engines. It also says "Anti Rice" under your name. You yourself are a trader.

[bigslim]

Drove a Dodge Magnum. My Daughters. Great car w/ 5speed manumatic for 30K. Feels very solid. Benz trans.
On the other side of the coin. It's not much faster than a MM. .5 seconds in the quarter. As far as the 425 HP 300, it will cost high 40's or 50k. The Caddy's much more. HP costs money. The CTS V is about 50K, and the STS with just 320hp is in the 60s.
MM is still best car for the money. The MM looks Fast just standing still, and wouldn't trade for any of the more high priced sleds.
The 425hp 300C SRT8 will have a $39,995 starting price. Not too much more than the 325hp 300C.

[Stew]

Not to mention the SRT-8 is running right around a 13.0@108 in the quarter!!!! Hell of a deal for 39995 (includes destination)!!!!!! Folks, these are NOT German cars, they are still American, from the PT to the 300 (despite some benz parts). What is more American than a 425 HP hemi. And these car are STILL BUILT IN AMERICA BY AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!! There is honestly a lot that makes me still see this as a Merger than a takeover, IF it was a takeover why is Daimler allowing Chrylsers that will rip up Mercedes???? No doubt they still have their say and are making money, but come on, I have to quote blue oval News here "Ford enthusiasts love to hate the 300C - primarily because we're jealous with rage that Ford doesn't build it. Privately we hate the 300C because it represents everything that we've been asking Ford to make: a rear wheel drive sedan with a powerful V8 engine that ignites passions - not merely power Taxicabs and cop cars. The 300C SRT makes it that much more difficult for us to accept that the Crown Vic and the Five-Hundred are as good as it gets, and that's not good enough." Says a lot IMHO :) that said, ford has the ability, but they are too concentrated on copying VWs and Camries!!!!

[Silver_04]

Why do people say it's a German PT? It was developed before Mercedes bought them. By the way, I have seen some pretty fast turbocharged PTs. At a meet this year there was one running a supercharger so be careful what you run up against in that fancy imported wagon. Oh hell, I mean "Rice Wagon". By the way, good luck on getting a new Z06. They are sweet with their 500hp engines. It also says "Anti Rice" under your name. You yourself are a trader.

You answered your own question. In 2003/2004 the PT was built by Daimler Chrysler, not Chrysler...thus it is a German, i.e.foreign, car. I drive rice and you drive schnitzel.

The PT doesn't even show up on my radar and I can promise you I won't be racing one because I could care less. Anyhow I'll be too busy staring at the really fancy L symbol on my steering wheel and wondering how much Uncle Bens I'll be able to fit in the gas tank. BTW, I think you mean traitor instead of trader but that is neither here or there...let's not get personal eh? But thanks for the heads up on the user title as I have promptly changed it.

[Stew]

NM, edit. I am not much a PT fan, but I consider it domestic.... May want to watch out for the GT models too, quick little buggers.....

[BillyGman]

my Marauder turns heads every time im out in it:banana: and Im one of the few tht has one,there isnt no GTO that will turn heads like that.A corvette will catch the eye before a GTO.Ford cannot relace its heritage with imports or selling all sensible cars with no more fun cars?
I fully agree with everything in your post, but esoecially w/the above^ ;)

[bigslim]

You answered your own question. In 2003/2004 the PT was built by Daimler Chrysler, not Chrysler...thus it is a German, i.e.foreign, car. I drive rice and you drive schnitzel.

The PT doesn't even show up on my radar and I can promise you I won't be racing one because I could care less. Anyhow I'll be too busy staring at the really fancy L symbol on my steering wheel and wondering how much Uncle Bens I'll be able to fit in the gas tank. BTW, I think you mean traitor instead of trader but that is neither here or there...let's not get personal eh? But thanks for the heads up on the user title as I have promptly changed it.
Never meant for it to get personal. Glad to see you change your title. I got my PT only because of the deal that was on it and to have something I didn't mind driving in the snow. It also supported my brother who has worked at Chrysler for 29yrs. He drives a Ford which supports my company. Anyway, buy what you want. Just remember, when you don't support my US auto business, I can't support your business whatever it may be.