K&N opinionated!

[MMpridenjoy]

I think this page makes for some interesting reading.
http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm#BEYOND

[FordNut]

I run K&N filters on all my vehicles, the ones in my signature plus 2 motor homes and 2 motorcycles. I've never had a problem but I've never proven they help either. Hope to do two dyno runs on my stock MM next week, one with the stock filter and the other with the K&N. If I get it done, I'll post the results whichever way they go.

[LincMercLover]

I kinda doubt any significant increase in a stock air box. Now an FIPK I could see giving a few ponies to...

[03 Merc]

Read this section real carefully if you go with the K&N, or any other oiled filter, it is what caused most of the problems I have seen:

http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm#OILING

The old "a little is good so more must be better" will really bite you on this one... Get the MAF sensors coated and you will a lot of fun getting that cleaned...

[SergntMac]

Okay, I'm in...

Without a doubt, K&N filters are a valuable performance product. I've run their systems on a number of cars and bikes over the years, and they have shown remarkable performance where an increase in air flow, or, extra protection from excessive dirt was desired. In off-road applications, (dune buggy, 4X4) K&N is worth its weight in gold. It's also a proven solution for custom builds when the OEM stuff isn't workable anymore. Good stuff, yes, however, as I stated in another thread, I'm not sold on what any K&N package can offer me now.

I did a lot of racing and car building in my youth, a real lot. But, I've been away from it all for many, many years. I am disappointed that I'm not up to snuff in some areas, never seen a DOHC Lady with her bra off. But, it's also good to be less educated today, because I have to read up on the features of a particular product before I buy. I don't think enough of us here are reading up, we're just throwing old tricks at a brand new design without considering the true value of what we have in hand, and that's just plain wrong.

Start any ad you want with "15-20% gain," and I'll be asking you to prove it. Is this in HP?, TQ? Numbers please? Method of test? Most often the answers don't come easy, and many times, not at all. When the manufacturer can back his claim, I'm in. When Dennis Reinhart put his name on a chip, and explained why I should "use these plugs and stat," he came to prove his word. But, I don't believe anyone should buy into any product on advertising, or, past reputation alone.

I've taken my factory air box apart, and I've made comparasions to air boxes of similar cars. It's my opinion that the MM has one of the largest OD systems on the street, and the forced air flow is as clean and straightforward as the engine bay will allow at this time. Fresh cold air forced in from behind the grille, ported through a flat, even surfaced air filter, to a MAF that's as far from the heated motor as it could be, and into the motor with few bends as possible and no kinks. I've not seen a better design. I would like to see some changes at the front end, but I'll leave that to the alchemists.

First thing the FIPK does, is trade off fresh cold forced air for heated engine bay air it has to suck in on it's own. That's a loss, and I don't think there is a mathematical or performance equasion that can balance the trade off. The FIPK system does not produce air, it only maximizes the use of air available to it. Where this cold air was once forced into the system from forward movement of the car, the FIPK now sucks the hot air from inside the engine bay, where at some speeds, due to air damming and ground effects, air is more often sucked out than forced in. Your best air, is air forced into the system, and as cold as possible. This wasn't any different in the '60, and ignoring that defies customary logic.

Moreover, a lot of "weekend warriors" like to dress up their cars and engine bays with do-dads that make it look like they are in the know. Well, K&N is for you, for sure. The FIPK is a fancy looking piece of equipment, and your car will surely look faster, hood up at the hot dog stand. Mention K&N as the kick-ass mod on a site such as this, and it's an automatic sale for one or two warriors, just don't sticker-up the car, ok?

Add to that, the block-headed warrior who thinks he's smarter than the K&N guys, and you've got trouble. The FIPK system introduces an oil based cleaning process into the air system that enhances the filter's ability to pass air and capture what a normal filter may pass through. However, the oil based process has it's affect and over time, the MAF will become clogged and fail. I know more than one block head who believes that if the directions say "apply light film" they automatically believe that the'll get more by applying more and butter the filter like it's toast. Now, here's where you get your 15-20% gain...in repair bills.

The factory air system on the MM is the best we have going for us right now. Use standard and inexpensive filters and change often. You want as much cold, clean air going into the motor as you can get, and the factory air box provides that. You don't need a fancy filter that need to be washed every once in a while, and comes to foul the motor when you're too busy to pay attention. A filter system that's good fpr 100K between changes is perfect for the OTR trucker, but it's trouble for the performance car. And, if you get the K&N filter that fits our air box, it will cost you more per filter, provide the same performance, and I'm willing to bet that you'll change it less often.

Okay, come get me...cha-ching!

PS. added after post. Sorry to have covered thoughts already presented, it took me a while to write this.

[Kelly]

I think like Mac, just can't write like Mac.

[LincMercLover]

Sarge,

Umm... I think you're thinking of those who just rip out the box, put a cone filter at the end of their intake tubing, and call it an FIPK. The difference there is the FIPK is sheilded from engine bay heat and gives a bigger area for cold air to pass through the fender and up into where this sheild is. Then the cone filter allows for a 360 degree area for air to enter during your "sucking" process. The second advantage to the FIPK to stock is the tubing itself. Look at mensrea's intake now. Carbon fiber that's smooth as silk on the inside all the way up. Look at ours. Rubber, ribbed, restrictive (and on I'm not talking about condoms here, I don't get THAT distracted... ;) ). Now a K&N isn't carbon fiber (weight purposes), but it is plastic that is smoothed out on the inside to allow smoother flow into the throttle body.

And you are right about the oiling. I agree with you 100% on that. I know (not friends with) some Rice Kids up at school who have the theory of "more must be better" stuck in there head, and I've seen the results. This percaution, like that of your 2k interval oil changes and 10k interval tranny/rear end changes, must be taken in stride.

But, like you said, haven't seen any dyno's yet... And we won't have dyno's for the FIPK until K&N actually decides to come out with one. All we have is cross-referenced filters, which I don't think will give a tremendous advantage. We do however, have a couple people on here who are going to dyno the filter alone against the paper. We'll see what happens...

[RF Overlord]

Sarge, instead of the K&N, I think there is a more appropriate system for your car... http://www.kalecoauto.com/perf.htm ...third item down...

[WolfeBros]

I find when the Sarge has typed a response in a thread that it almost always saves me a good deal of typing here. Well written, well said post Sarge. I too think that the Marauder intake and filter assembly is one of the best that I have ever seen. Until someone can show me the numbers on a better one I will just keep to the filter changes.
Ditto that on the exhaust. Outside of headers I don't think there is much more to do underneath the car unless you are just changing to get a sound that suits you. The LM boys did their homework on getting this engine to breathe.

[RF Overlord]

Dammit, WolfeBros, I've ASKED you politely to stop taking the words out of my mouth...

:lol:

[jgc61sr2002]

Leave the air box stock. The MM has the best designed system made in a factory production car. I for one will keep my MM stock. John :)

[merc406]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Sarge, instead of the K&N, I think there is a more appropriate system for your car... http://www.kalecoauto.com/perf.htm ...third item down...



Thanks RF, that site is pretty funny!!! LOL!!! :flamer: :D

[WolfeBros]

RF
I am beginning to think you are my evil twin. We both drive big bad black cars too. :D

[gonzo50]

For SergntMac:
Very well written and stated, you sure know how to put it in Perspective.
Between SergntMac and RF Overlord, they can publish a book on going in to great detail and analysis on any subject of the Marauder, and that's a good thing for someone like me or other reader's of this Forum.
Keep up the good work, don't stop. :beer:

[SSMOKEM]

I get my cold air in this way. If you look at the picture, you'll see the 2 rubber strips on top of the plastic housing. This seals against the hood and only allows cold air in from the front of the car. The bottom also seals against the radiator heat. The filter is an S&B.


http://www.cadwiz.net/cherrybomb/Cover2.jpg

[FordNut]

Finally got to the dyno. Here's some data:

Stock HP/Tq = 242/264
K&N Filter HP/Tq = 241/266
DR 91 octane pgm = 255/286
DR 93 octane pgm = 253/289

So the K&N filter doesn't do much for power, just longer maintenance intervals. The AFR was better but still way too rich compared to the chip. I think I'll repeat the test in the future comparing stock, K&N, and foam-type (old style Accel) filters, WITH the chip, stat, plugs, etc.

Also, sort of surprising the 2 programs didn't make much difference. I expected the 93 octane program to have more aggressive advance curve than the 91.

[vaderv]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
Sarge,

Umm... I think you're thinking of those who just rip out the box, put a cone filter at the end of their intake tubing, and call it an FIPK. The difference there is the FIPK is sheilded from engine bay heat and gives a bigger area for cold air to pass through the fender and up into where this sheild is. Then the cone filter allows for a 360 degree area for air to enter during your "sucking" process. The second advantage to the FIPK to stock is the tubing itself. Look at mensrea's intake now. Carbon fiber that's smooth as silk on the inside all the way up. Look at ours. Rubber, ribbed, restrictive (and on I'm not talking about condoms here, I don't get THAT distracted... ;) ). Now a K&N isn't carbon fiber (weight purposes), but it is plastic that is smoothed out on the inside to allow smoother flow into the throttle body.

And you are right about the oiling. I agree with you 100% on that. I know (not friends with) some Rice Kids up at school who have the theory of "more must be better" stuck in there head, and I've seen the results. This percaution, like that of your 2k interval oil changes and 10k interval tranny/rear end changes, must be taken in stride.

But, like you said, haven't seen any dyno's yet... And we won't have dyno's for the FIPK until K&N actually decides to come out with one. All we have is cross-referenced filters, which I don't think will give a tremendous advantage. We do however, have a couple people on here who are going to dyno the filter alone against the paper. We'll see what happens... Hey link check out the wings on a lot of aircraft. Not to mention the vaulted hemi head. They put rakes and such to cause turbulance! At the speeds that this enginge sucks air the ribbs and such in the intake are a non issue.

[looking97233]

Looking at the K&N site and doing a product search, the only filter listed has a comment of "W". Looking further I read this "W" refers to the engine code in the vehicles VIN. Our engine has a "V" VIN code. Just what I read at K&N's site.

[427435]

In another life, I was involved with engine applications into off-road machinery (farm tractors and construction equipment). Trust me, there's a no worse dust condition for an engine to survive in than a farm tractor pulling an implement at 5 mph with a slight tailwind. Pre-cleaners (centrifugal devices) and paper filters were used---I repeat PAPER filters. Expense for a good air cleaner protecting a $15,000 plus engine on a $100,000 plus vehicle wasn't an issue either. An "after-market" filter that offers more air flow will likely have larger openings in it's media---leading to coarser particles getting through and shorter engine life. But let's face it, how many of us gear-heads really run a "performance" vehicle to a 100,000 plus miles without trading, changing, or breaking the engine. When an engine goes sour on us, we don't blame the filter, we blame our driving. So the "after-market" people can make all kinds of wild claims.

By the way, oil and oiled media aren't really new technology either. The first air cleaners used one or both. Engine and vehicle builders went to paper because of both better filtration and better airflow for the same amount of space.

Long and short of it, changing the air cleaner on a modern air intake system isn't a good way to get more power (see dyno numbers above) but can be a very good way to shorten the life of the engine. Let's face it, as hard as some Mercury engineer worked to get the most power out of the MM (without screwing up emissions or mpg), if a few bucks would have added 10 hp, even the bean counters would have gone along with it on this car.

The funny part about all of this is that (if you haven't figured it out by my handle), I have one (if not only) car produced in modern times (is 1967 still modern??) that has an oil wetted air cleaner. It was used because of air flow requirements and lack of space for a proper paper air cleaner---------and the Corvette engineers won't worrying about 100,000 mile engine life either. I also suspect marketing liked the trianglar shape of the air cleaner.

Let the flames begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:flamer:

[WolfeBros]

No flames for you. A 67 vette with 427/435hp gets my respect and admiration. One of my all time favorite cars. :bows:

[mad man]

thanks sarge saved me some cash :uzi:

[prchrman]

427435..good post..thanks..

[jgc61sr2002]

427435 - Nice post. Had a 1965 Corvette, roadster, two tops, 4 speed and the 327 300hp. Nice ride still miss it. John:(

[jerrym3]

jgc61sr2002- I also had a 65 Vette, 327/300 Nassau blue over Nassau blue. Bought it new in 1965. Only problem, rear end from the factory was supposed to be 3:36, mine came in with 3:08. Car was slow (for a Vette) and I didn't have the bucks to get the rear changed.

Otherwise, the greatest car I've ever owned. Sold it 1966 to get married.

[427435]

Surprising (than again, maybe not) how many current or past vette owners are interested in this site. Perhaps we all still want performance but in a car that is comfortable. I sure hope Ford/Mercury gets their act together soon on the panther cars. The MM should have had some color selection from day one----especially considering how long it took to release and the lessons that should have been learned from the SS. Some less "ricer" wheel options would be good too. And there's a few of us that would prefer the engine, transmission and suspension on an LS or LSE-----sleepers were a big part of the 60's!!!

By the way, my vette is a one owner-----------me!!!:) :) I ordered it in November of 1966 and finally took delivery in March of 1967. Still fun to drive but I need to rebuild the front (and probably rear) suspension. The ride was fine when I was 24 but I wouldn't want to do 700 miles in it today (even with a rebuilt suspension) like I did more than once in my 20's. Now a Grand Marquis or an MM is a far better choice for a long trip!!!!!!

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by 427435
Surprising (than again, maybe not) how many current or past vette owners are interested in this site. Perhaps we all still want performance but in a car that is comfortable. I sure hope Ford/Mercury gets their act together soon on the panther cars. The MM should have had some color selection from day one----especially considering how long it took to release and the lessons that should have been learned from the SS. Some less "ricer" wheel options would be good too. And there's a few of us that would prefer the engine, transmission and suspension on an LS or LSE-----sleepers were a big part of the 60's!!!



Welcome 427435

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the Panther cars, unless you are referring to the very little or no advertising

I agree about the colour availability, but they are working on that. You can get one in blue or silver now

They took a while to release the Marauder because they didn't want to release it with the old suspension. They waited until all the new stuff was finalised, part of that was learning from the "SS" The Marauder outhandles it quite well

I'm not sure what you mean about the Engine, transmission, and suspension of an LS or LSE. Those aren't necessarily improvements over the Marauder, even tough some of the suspension is shared.
Maybe you mean a Marauder in LSE dress?

[427435]

RC Signals,

Relative to the Panther cars, Ford has let them become "old people" cars. That didn't happen overnight. Now, they're trying to change that a bit with the MM. The current MM is a good car but it should be the 3rd generation (1st in the 60's, and the 2nd about 1995). Yes, the new car has a lot better suspension, but the old Grand Marquis could have used more power years ago----say 250-275 hp-----and engines were available to do that. And offering that would have freshened the Mercury image before it got to be such an "old people's car. But Ford spent its money on other things (or maybe just paid out big bonus money to people who stood "pat").

I know this is a bit of a rant, but back in 1994 (about 6 months after I had bought a new 1993 Grand Marquis), I received a "form" letter from Ford wanting to know how I liked the car. I filled out the form and sent it back with a letter of my own. In it, I spoke well of the car (it has been a very good car and the ride is great and the handling fine with the HD suspension) but I pointed out that more power would be nice and that it would make a good modern day S-55. Nine years later (or maybe just 6-7 years late), we have the MM. I really hope it revives Mercury, but the brand needs more if it's going to make it.

No, I wasn't suggesting the standard Grand Marquis engine in the MM; I was thinking how much of a sleeper an LSE would be with the MM engine and less flashy wheels!!!!!:cool: :cool:

[RCSignals]

427435
You are correct, the 4.6 in a Mustang is rated at 260 HP yet in a 2003 Grand Marquis/Crown Victoria with dual exhaust, only 239.

What Ford did especially through the Nasser years, was concentrate on trucks and SUVs, neglecting the Passenger car line.
There are signs that is changing. Lets hope so

[merc406]

Dyno #'s to see if one air filter over another is better won't work. The ram air effect isn't their unless another form of forced airflow is present.
K&N and the other new manufactures of these types of filters know what they are talking about, a simple test, take your wife's hairdryer or your's, to the front of a factory one and then to the cotton one.
The oiling, do what direction's say and their won't be any problem's. Been using K&N for years and over 100,000 miles with no problems, mileage improved on one car buy 1and a half mpg.

[WolfeBros]

Nasser just about killed off LM by not paying attention to that brand. Hope its not too late for Mercury.:alone:

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by merc406
Dyno #'s to see if one air filter over another is better won't work. The ram air effect isn't their unless another form of forced airflow is present. The oiling, do what direction's say and their won't be any problems.

I respectfully disagree Merc.

What you are suggesting here, is that the K&N is dependent on forced air intake to show it's performance gain, and that flies in the face of K&Ns own advertising. I believe that the reason K&N won't advertise hard numbers, is that hard numbers are not there across their wide assortment of products. The advertising clearly sells an impression of improvement, but "your results may vary" is also very clear stated.

Dynos can be run with, and without forced air, and either way, the K&N should show it's stuff. In the absence of forced air, both are left to suck air, and if the K&N was as superlative in performance as K&N boasts, that gain, however minimal, should be detectable. I haven't tested a K&N myself, but others here have, and they report no gain. I haven't tested, because I don't believe there is anything there for the MM owner.

I'd be happy to strap her down one more time for a side by side examination of this, but frankly, this argument isn't worth the cost of a dyno, or even the K&N filter, to me. Now y'all want to take up a collection and send me the money and a filter, I'll test this out. I'll even throw in a side bet.

If the K&N shows a performance gain equal to the Denso plugs (which on my MM is 4 RWHP, 6 ftlb RWTQ, and one point reduction on the AFR for 100 bucks), I'll pay for the test and the filter. And, it doesn't have to be all three indexes, just one will do, and I'll buy K&N. I'm just about done tuning, and every HP and TQ number counts now. I'd love to buy a few more for the cost of a K&N filter.

Anyone in? Dynos are 125. an hour, how much for the K&N filter?

My paper Motorcraft is 8.99, and when it's dirty, it's two min. to replace and I'm back on the road.

I do agree with your opinion on oiling the K&N filter, Merc, however, following directions is always the rub, yes?

[MAD-3R]

Ok, I'm in for $25 of that.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
Ok, I'm in for $25 of that.

Tell y'all what...

I'll buy the filter, y'all pay for the dyno test. Give me the correct K&N number, and I'll provide an independent witness to the test, and copies of the dyno reports to the members who contribute. Tell me if you want a forced air test, or not, and when I get the 125. for the dyno, we're on.

How bad do y'all want to know this 411? If it's an issue you would like to see cleared up, chip in.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by SergntMac
If it's an issue you would like to see cleared up, chip in.

Sarge: I'll chip in a sawbuck...it'll be worth it to clear up all the hearsay and unscientific opinion one way or the other...thanks...

$90 to go...come on...nine more people...

[RCSignals]

Thing is now K+N isn't the only player. There are a few similar filters on the market now, all promising to better each other.
If a dyno test is going to be done, maybe the manufacturers can be talked into supplying samples of their wares?

[merc406]

Their's no reason to do any more tests like this, they have been done. Just saw one done on Hot Rod 2 weeks ago on a Mustang and the gain was not more than if I remember right, 5hp, and reason for no more was dead air.

[tomd]

Where are you guy's even getting K&N filters? The only filter I've see here is the oil filter. http://www.knfilterchargers.com/search/appsearch.aspx

I've writen to K&N 3 times and they have told me "no air filters yet, keep checking". :confused:

[MAD-3R]

The Mustang upgrade was also with other minor intake mods. The filter was just a part of it.

The K&N that is being used is from an older CrownVic that fits pretty damn close.

[427435]

Quote posted by Merc406

"mileage improved on one car buy 1and a half mpg."

With all due respect, if Mercury could have improved their gas mileage by 1-1/2 mpg or added 5 or more hp by spending $25 for a special air cleaner, don't you think they would have done it? Especially on the MM. Yes, I'm sure the K & M air cleaner costs more than $25 over-the-counter but the ratio between OEM cost and over-the-counter is about 5 to one. Plus there's cost in the air cleaner they are using.

Heck, send me $50 and I'll send you some magnets and electrical tape to tape them to your fuel line for better gas mileage. I might even throw in a fancy certificate or "dyno test report".

There's a tremendous amout of engineering and dyno hours spent getting a few more hp or another 1/2 mpg by all the car companies-----domestic and imports. Other than my old relic, I've never seen a "K & N" style filter as factory equipment on any car. There's probably a good reason for that.

Save your money for a chip and gears.

[merc406]

You'll never know if you don't try one. My experience is real not imagined. That's all I have to say on this subject.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by merc406
You'll never know if you don't try one. My experience is real not imagined. That's all I have to say on this subject.

Well alrighty then. My offer stands, y'all let me know what you want to do.

[427435]

I got to thinking about this thread a little more. On today's fuel injected engines, a less restictive air cleaner could make for more power (although possibly leading to shorter engine life due to larger openings in the filter media). However, an air cleaner won't affect gas mileage on a fuel injected engine!!!

The reason is that fuel is measured into the intake manifold based on the amount of air that has already made it past the filter element. After all, the mass air flow meter is after the air filter. If you need 60 hp to move along at 70 mph, you need to burn so many pounds of air mixed with so many pounds of fuel. If you have a restrictive air cleaner, you will open the throttle a little farther to reduce the restriction at the throttle body to make up for more restriction at the air cleaner. The net result is the same total amount of restriction from the air intake to the intake valve---------and the same number of pounds of air flowing-------------and the same amount of fuel being added----------and the same amount of hp being produced----------------and the same gas mileage.

The MAF doesn't care where the restriction is, it just measures the air flowing by it and sends a signal to the computer. The computer then injects a predetermined amount of fuel into the manifold and, voila, the same amount of hp. Of course, at WOT, an engine with a restrictive air cleaner will make less hp-----but it won't get worse mileage, not with a fuel injected engine.

If you see improved gas mileage after changing an air cleaner on an fuel injected engine, something else caused it.

A carbureted engine's MPG may be affected by a really bad air cleaner but we're talking about the MM here.

[djcwardog]

Sarge, instead of the K&N, I think there is a more appropriate system for your car... http://www.kalecoauto.com/perf.htm ...third item down...
OK, I got it! Kalecoauto has me laughing just a bit! Good find and thanks for the comic relief after a hard day at work.

[Glenn]

I had my MM dyno tested on 6/19 by Team Ford. The Air box cover was removed and the car gained 6 hp - 272 RWHP.

Glenn

[Ross]

Haven't done any dyno runs, so I can't post numbers. However, I have a conical K&N and have this to say about the "360 degree" air intake. When I clean my filter, which I do often, the BOTTOM of the filter is always MUCH dirtier than the top. In fact, when the bottom is visibly dirty, the top is almost always very clean. Now I'm no engineer, but this tells me that in our cars, the airflow is coming up from the bottom and the vast majority of air is coming into the filter from the bottom. I could probably block off the top of my K&N and still get about as much airflow. Just my humble observations and .02.

[427435]

Let the flames begin!!!! Air cleaners (especially K& N) are almost as sure to get a discussion going as an "oil topic".

First a little background. I've been a member of SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) for 40 years (ever since engineering school). I've spent a lot of years working with off-highway equipment (forestry and ag tractors). There's nothing worse than an ag tractor pulling an implement at 5 mph with a 5 mph tailwind. The engine suppliers were all very fussy about the air cleaners that were used with their engine installations----and oil wetted designs disappeared quickly in the 50's with the advent of carefully engineered and manufactured paper media filters.

Second, if you want more air flow through a filter, you have just 2 choices. One is to increase the surface area (pleats or just a bigger air filter assembly). The second is to make the holes in the filtering media bigger (one doesn't even need engineering school to figure this out).

Thirdly, I own one of the few cars (if not the only one), produced in the last 50 years, that has an oil wetted air filter----the tri-carbed Vett.

Fourthly, the Ford engineers want all the power they can get out of an engine like the Marauder's (yes, they also don't want it to get "dusted out" too quickly either).

Finally, I doubt that any after market air cleaner will flow more air (comparable overall package size) than a new, stock air cleaner will------unless it has bigger passages for the air AND DIRT to come through!!!

If you're interested in performance, stick with the paper element and change it often.

Bring it On!!!!!

[MAD-3R]

The reson I went with the K&N was avalability. I found one, while everyone else was telling me they would have to order a paper one, as soon as they figured out WHAT they would have to order.

And for me, going to my dealer wasn't an option.

[merc406]

I stand by what I stated before, more hp and better mileage with K&N. :rock: :beer: :uzi: :flamer:

[merc406]

Oh and the dirt issue, isn't, I've used one for 170,000 miles now and everytime I take it off to clean it, their is no dust or dirt inside the throttle body and cover plates. :flamer: :rasta:

[Glenn]

If your running at the track pop the MM air box cover up about 1 1/2 - 2". When I was dynoing my MM last month opening the air box cover gained 6 HP and I have a K&N and it was clean. There is still more HP to be gained from a better air box and filter. What happened to the K&N air box that was reported in the works??????

Glenn

[modular46]

What happened to the K&N air box that was reported in the works??????

Glenn

K&N was on the Hot Rod Power Tour. I asked about the Marauder kit. I got the deer in the headlights look! :shake:

[CRUZTAKER]

K&N was on the Hot Rod Power Tour. I asked about the Marauder kit. I got the deer in the headlights look! :shake:
Naw...really?;) :lol:

[modular46]

Naw...really?;) :lol:


Sadly, the look was as if to say, "What's a Marauder?"