Supercharger choices?

[bad JuJu]

I am currently lining up my finances to see how much it will be to get a Marauder with 15k to 20k miles, and then make it fast enough to smoke my friend's new BMW M3.
<CENTER>:flamer:</CENTER>
Only rule: no NOS. I want to supercharge this big black mofo, but it will be the first time I'll get one put into a car, so I don't know many names.
<BR>
Since it's a Roush Mustang V8, I figure most bolt-ons for those 'stangs can be mounted on the Marauder without a problem. Is that correct? And if so, what do y'all think of Vortech?
<CENTER>http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/systems/
<BR>
:help:

___________________
<B>bad JuJu</B>

[FordNut]

Nope, won't fit. Main problem is the intake on the opposite side as the Mustang. Been discussed lots in these forums. Now, if you were to move the battery to the trunk maybe it could be done, I haven't heard of anybody trying that. KB is making a supercharged conversion but it's very expensive (includes lots of other stuff like upgraded brakes, etc.) DR is supposed to be working on developing one also.

[MAD-3R]

The block is the same, but the air flow is flipped.On the M<arauder the airbox is driverside. Though we have a lot of room under the hood, the fabrication of the parts is the main headache right now. Denis Reinhart is working on a SC packadge now. We will se what he comes up with.

[bad JuJu]

By KB I assume you mean Kenny Brown, right?
http://www.kennybrown.com/MarauderSbuilds.htm
Yeah, I found this after posting my question. 120 pieces, some of them custom made. Not a job for an amateur mechanic. =) ah well.

[looking97233]

here, and check my post in the Community disscusion.

www.kennebell.net


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1568

[Reaper948]

Beat a New 2003 M3? My friend just got a white one.......AND I have the same goal JuJu :) Coincidence?..However don't you think that's kinda hard? beating a 4.8 0-60 time?!?!!............. Maybe Mensrea could try that for size ........

.....I'm trying to get enough out of a naturally aspirated engine that I can...Ill hit up a supercharger MUCH MUCH later.........
I still have 4.10's, chip, DR's upcoming CAI to go.......

[SergntMac]

I don't know much about superchargers, but I do think an "0-60 under 5.0" isn't likely with this car. I'ts still a 281 CID motor pushing 4200 pounds of dead weight from a standing start. You would need some kind of catapult-sling shot like launch to even consider approaching the 5 second barrier, and only a twin-screw supercharger delivers power like that. Study Mensrea's video again, watch his drive out. The car is smoking hot, I agree, but those first few feet are telling too. I think you would have to consider slicks and much taller gearing in both the tranny and rear end, to see a 0 1 2 3 4 second 60 MPH. Possible, I suppose, but at the cost of reasonable driveability. It's just not in the cards with an MM, IMHO.

[mensrea]

I am heistant to commit to any 0-60 numbers, as we all have seen the number vary from maginze to magazine... however Kenny Brown was getting 5.2 0-60 out of a Panther (a supercharged crown vic 2 V)... I am kind of hoping for a sub 5 sec 0-60. (check the MotorWeek review of the P2 Panther)




Without slicks... stay tuned.MotorWeek review of kenny Brown Panther text (http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2111a.shtml)

[looking97233]

Power is not a problem for mensrea's car. Sub 5 sec. ? Not an issue. The only diffucltly I see is 1: The weather in Chicago until spring hits. 2: Practice launching the car. I think the latter may require a trip or two to the tire store for replacement rear tires, but if one can afford the 'S' to begin with, that shouldn't be a problem either.

[grzellmer]

Sub 5.0 second huh?

It would seem to be a tricky thing for Mensrea's "S" to accomplish. The launch is tough, not from an overall power perspective but as the video shows, there is a spike in the power as the S/C spools up (Not as bad as a turbo but a few tenths of a second) - making it easy to cook the tires. And as many have noted spinning tires do not make for a good ET.

Still, capable rubber and a skilled driver - maybe it could be done

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by looking97233
Power is not a problem for mensrea's car. Sub 5 sec. ? Not an issue. The only diffucltly I see is 1: The weather in Chicago until spring hits. 2: Practice launching the car. I think the latter may require a trip or two to the tire store for replacement rear tires, but if one can afford the 'S' to begin with, that shouldn't be a problem either.

You are a thick headded mug, Looking, I admire your convictions.

I never suggested power was a problem on Mensrea's Marauder S, but launching it against the 0-60 clock is. After reading up on the Kenny Brown Panther performance as provided by Mensrea, and factoring the lighter car and 2V vs. 4V motors, I'm going to stand by my first opinion.

The 281 CID is a short stroke motor with natural limitations in developing low end power. It's a small block fer Christ's sake, it just dosen't wind up as quick as longer stroked motors. There is too much car to move, and not enough lead time on the ticking clock for the small block to overcome that limitation. It's not really a matter of more horsepower, or torque, as much as it is basic physics in short stroke motors, and movement of the total dead weight. 0-60 in 5.0 or less just isn't going to happen with an MM, practice hole shots all you want. Until the car launches like a rubber band off your finger, it ain't happening.

[mensrea]

Well... obviously everyone here has an opinion.... and you know what they say about that.

[MAD-3R]

I think I'll shot the fuzzy fella in PA....

I am refering to the groundhog

When spring gets there, I hope Mensrea will let us all know what is time slips are.

[mensrea]

Ya... damn Sable will probably beat me.

Remember what we bought our cars for. If someone gave me $50 grand I could buy a really nice world of outlaws 8 sec car... couldn't drive it to work or put five people in it.

I am looking for the best balance between speed and utility (M5 too much $$$$). If the car doesn't break the 5 sec mark I won't loose any sleep... there's always gonna be someone faster, better looking, better hung what ever.

[prchrman]

I love the one I'm with and it be about 7.5, 0 - 60. mensrea, sounds like a fast car regardless, I'm impressed, hope you hit 5.0, good luck.

[Reaper948]

Well just wait and See........Mensrea.....we have faith in you

[mensrea]

But can I afford a new shortblock.... Mmmmm think of the possibilities

[BODYMAN]

A KB Marauder-S+ a set of re-worked heads and stroked block maybe??? different cams... now thats a thought!!!

[LincMercLover]

93teal,

You mean camS? :P

[looking97233]

First off, Sarge I don't want to insult anybody, or start a fight but, check your post about the stroke of our motor. You said a longer stroke will rev quicker than a shorter stroke? Is that what you meant? Our motor is about as square as you can get, almost perfect. As far as being only 4.6L, go watch the ricers. They are making huge HP from 1.8, or 2.0L. Check out this months issue of popular sci.

As far as the bottom end strength goes, anybody remember watching turbo buicks? pushing 4-500RWHP on stock bottoms? Cast rods and pistons.Too many R's are what will kill the bottom end, not power.

Until late summer, when I can get a twin-screw, I'll have to shut-up. When the time comes, I will be able to prove what I am saying with dynos and time slips.

Mensrea, what's the number on the M3? 4.8. I think you'll bee able to keep pace with him up to 60, then you'll wave bye,bye.

[looking97233]

93 Teal Cobra.
Shawn Highland is offering a stroker. But he is very proud of it. $$$

[BODYMAN]

Looking youre right about that! I thought the marauder-S is pricey but no compared to 19,500.00!!!!! I have to wait and see after KB is done with mine to see if I still feel the need for more.

Todd p.s. LML yes I meen camS____ stupid me!!!!

[LightningVic]

M3 isnt really in the same class, so its not our competition. I set my performance goals to wipe the floor with the new 745, and 750/60 (whatever it is) all motor, and then when I add the charger, I want to embarass M5 owners. It will happen, and it aint even that hard. Speedy cop is doing it with a centrifugal supercharger, I will achieve maybe even slightly better results with my twin screw charger. :)

[looking97233]

LightningVic-

The folk at KenneBell are working on the Mustang GT kit right now, they got back logged and Ford keeps changing things in the motors.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by looking97233
First off, Sarge I don't want to insult anybody, or start a fight but, check your post about the stroke of our motor. You said a longer stroke will rev quicker than a shorter stroke? Is that what you meant? Our motor is about as square as you can get, almost perfect. As far as being only 4.6L, go watch the ricers. They are making huge HP from 1.8, or 2.0L. Check out this months issue of popular sci.

As far as the bottom end strength goes, anybody remember watching turbo buicks? pushing 4-500RWHP on stock bottoms? Cast rods and pistons.Too many R's are what will kill the bottom end, not power.

Until late summer, when I can get a twin-screw, I'll have to shut-up. When the time comes, I will be able to prove what I am saying with dynos and time slips.

Mensrea, what's the number on the M3? 4.8. I think you'll bee able to keep pace with him up to 60, then you'll wave bye,bye.


For a guy who doesn't want to insult anyone, or, pick a fight, you sure do talk funny.

What is this thread about again? Maybe something's twisted up and I can't see that. Anyone?

[mensrea]

I am so confident that my car can do 0-60 in sub 5 seconds that I will bet $100 on it....

[Wags]

mensrea,

I'll back ya for another $100, so make your offer $200, and when you win, we can get you some new tires. I think you will hit that mark pretty easily.

Wags

[WolfeBros]

The great thing about this sub 5 second time is even the skeptical are pulling for ya Mensrea. I am in that camp at the moment but I wouldn't bet against you. Go for it ! :banana2:

[RF Overlord]

Just curious...

...wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to put in a 460 and be done with it? There's a LOT of aftermarket for that motor, and you can tow buildings around with it all day...stock.

Okay, Nomex suit zipped up...

[Macon Marauder]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Just curious...

...wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to put in a 460 and be done with it? There's a LOT of aftermarket for that motor, and you can tow buildings around with it all day...stock.

Okay, Nomex suit zipped up...

Um - yeah! But would it be as much "fun?"

[prchrman]

RFO,
We are just old line thinking.... I wouldn't say that for fear of criticism...but if you are going for speed... it would work...maybe lose some creature comforts...

[mensrea]

I've got a big block vette... I kind of like the air conditioning in the Marauder :)

The Buick GS is pretty cool as well though!

[RF Overlord]

Willie/mensrea:

So what are y'all saying...? If we put a big-block in a big car, we lose creature comforts like A/C? I had a friend with a 1970 Kingswood Estate with a 454 that had power everything, including A/C that worked, and it would make you swallow your tongue when he stepped on it... :D

[Beadhead]

L-Vic's right -- compare an M3 with an SVT Cobra, since they're both sport coupes, and not with a 4200 lb. fordor, FCOL!

[bad JuJu]

<CENTER>
<TABLE><TR>
<TD>
BMW M3 Convertible
Weight: 3781 lbs.
Engine: Inline 6 -- ??? -- 3.2L
HP: 333, 7900 rpm
Torque: 262 ft-lbs, 4900 rpm
Rear-wheel drive, manual
0-60: 5.0 seconds
</TD>
<TD>&nbsp; &nbsp;</TD><TD>
Mercury Marauder
Weight: 4165 lbs.
Engine: V-8 -- DOHC -- 4.6L
HP: 302, 5750 rpm
Torque: 318 ft-lbs, 4250 rpm
Rear-wheel drive, automatic
0-60: 6.5 seconds
</TD>
</TR></TABLE>
</CENTER>

I'm not an engineer, but after looking at the numbers, I find it incredible that the M3 can even hit 5.0. That is <I>tweaked</i>, my friends.

The Marauder is only 400 lbs heavier, and has a V-8, so I imagine adding more torque would definitely help. But look at the RPMs... I think it would need more breathing room to hit 60 mph quickly.

Ah well. *toasts Mensea* One day, I'll find out the hard way.

[Beadhead]

bad J: 400 lb is a lot of weight in automotive engineering terms, though it might not sound like much. Also 6 sp man vs. 4 sp auto, etc. Cars are apples and oranges, IMHO.

[looking97233]

A 460? I've got a little one in a 1986 Bronco. When I take it out (needs fixing, new FI waiting to go on) it makes Mustang GT owners and some camaros cry. Never been to the strip, but it will be at least a car length ahead of a stang at 60, and several at 100.
All this at 5200lbs.

[mensrea]

Well the April edition of Car and Driver is in the hands of subscribers, and it reports that the Kenny Brown Marauder S does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. Not bad, all of you that were confident the car could do it in under 5 were right on!

:rock:

edited to try my hand a smilies

[mtnh]

I think the Sarge is speechless! Great job, Bill. Nice car.

Mike

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by SergntMac
I don't know much about superchargers, but I do think an "0-60 under 5.0" isn't likely with this car. I'ts still a 281 CID motor pushing 4200 pounds of dead weight from a standing start. You would need some kind of catapult-sling shot like launch to even consider approaching the 5 second barrier, and only a twin-screw supercharger delivers power like that. Study Mensrea's video again, watch his drive out. The car is smoking hot, I agree, but those first few feet are telling too. I think you would have to consider slicks and much taller gearing in both the tranny and rear end, to see a 0 1 2 3 4 second 60 MPH. Possible, I suppose, but at the cost of reasonable driveability. It's just not in the cards with an MM, IMHO.

I'm not shy about eating my words, but if I had said them better in this post, a lot of this discussion would have gone in another direction.

My remarks about the MM not doing an under 5 sec. 0-60, were meant for a N/A car, and what else you would have to do to that car, to get the desired results. I pointed to Mensrea's video clip as a place to see how a heavy car launches, nothing more. Unfortunately, for lack of a comma, or a paragraph break, it's easy to think that I meant to say Mensrea's car could not do it. So, I got credit for that, and I'm eating my words, with a bit of seasoning if you don't mind.

Anyway, congrats to you, Bill, that is one hell of a Marauder, and I'll bet even better things are down the road. I apologize for the misunderstandings here, and promise to try and avoid causing this kind of confusion again.