Oil pressure

[FordNut]

I just installed the functional oil pressure gauge and was concerned about the pressure I'm running. It seems high but maybe the modular motors are supposed to be that way (or maybe the sending unit is not calibrated). Anyway, I get about 80 psi at idle and it shoots up over 100 psi when I rev it to 2-3 grand. Is this normal?

Fixin' to change my signature, no longer bone stock (Silverstars, K&N, real Autometer gauges, 35% tint, KB dead pedal, smoked lic. plate cover, soon to have Reinhart delta chip, 4.10s, SVO girdle, 180 thermostat, Denso IT20s, PI oil cooler, Bassani x-pipe, Mobil 1 fully synthetic 5W30, Mobil 1 oil filter, synthetic gear lube).

[LincMercLover]

I'd say 70-80 lbs is about right at idle... Better than this guys Firebird (1969) that I installed a gauge on... 0-5psi at idle! That was a mess of a car!

[RF Overlord]

Nut:

I think Flash, who I believe was the first of us to do this, said he runs about 50 lbs at idle and up to 75 when running...

The wiring instructions on AutoMeter's web site state that the sender should automatically be grounded when installed, but if not, separate grounding of the sender body may be required. You state that you used teflon tape on the threads, so maybe you aren't getting a good ground on the sender?

Maybe try re-installing the sender without the tape just to see...I'm going to do the install as soon as weather conditions permit...

[martyo]

Is the voltage gage, like the oil gage, a dummy too??

[WolfeBros]

Good point on the teflon tape RF. His readings sound high....he probably does have a high resistance connection and not grounded properly. As far as we know the Voltmeter works fine. When I change mine out I will test the factory one and post the results on here. I bought both gauges and they are sitting in my office. I was waiting for the first oil change to crawl under the car and install the sender.

[FordNut]

No, but the lighting on the factory one doesn't match the aftermarket functional oil pressure gauge even though they're both made by Autometer. The lettering on the face of the gauge is also a little bit different but not enough that it would be noticed.

[FordNut]

I'll check the teflon tape later this week. The original sending unit had teflon tape on it when removed. I know it works differently, but I was more concerned with oil leakage at the time I installed it.

[SergntMac]

FordNut, I'm always looking to learn new things about the MM. When you get a moment, would you explain some of the things in your sig? I don't understand "silverstars," and "SVO girdle", nor how they affect the MM. I wouild also like to say thank for exploring the gauge fix. I'm not inclined to make any changes myself right now, but should that time come, you have taken some of the mystery of of it. Thanks again.

[RF Overlord]

stanleyk:

I believe the voltmeter is legit...you can demonstrate by momentarily clicking a window switch up, when the window is already up...you'll see the voltmeter dip. Also try putting on the headlights with high-beam while watching the gauge...you'll see it dip a little...same thing if you step on the brakes...etc...

I don't think the real AutoMeter gauges look different enough to warrant replacing the voltmeter, but it's easy to do, especially if you're already taking the panel out to do the O.P. gauge...voltmeters are relatively inexpensive, too...

[martyo]

Thanks RF. I didn't see much deflection in my volt meter and that is why I asked. I keep using my "boating" knowledge and on boats I can throw on a heavy draw (such as a radar) and watch for the expected result.

[RF Overlord]

Put the car in drive, step on the brake, have the headlights on high, turn on the heater and the stereo, click the window switch, and push in the cigarette lighter ALL AT THE SAME TIME and you'll see a heavy draw, alright...

[WolfeBros]

Sarge,
I believe the Silverstars in FordNuts sig refers to Sylvania SilverStar replacement headlight bulbs. I have them in my MM as well and they are well worth the money. A brighter, whiter lamp than the OEM bulb. The OEM bulbs thru that smoked cover were alittle dim IMHO.

[martyo]

RF: I am not sure I am that talented! My hands haven't been in that many places at one time since I was in highschool!! ;)

[RF Overlord]

Funny...your girlfriend called you "The Octopus" the other day... D'OH!

[Flash]

After installing a real AutoMeter Oil Pressure gauge, the face of the new one looked so much better to me at night I decided to kinda do like Logan and install a AutoMeter Tranny Temp gauge where the volt meter was, Logan put in a third hole for his gauge. I'm not worried about not seeing the Volt Meter because we still have the “red battery” idiot light in our dash.
My oil pressure is like FordNut’s when the engine is cool, after about 25 miles of driving the engine is good and warmed up the oil pressure reads 25 psi @t idle and 60-62 psi @ speed, same reading as the stock unit and right within the limits specified in the Shop Manual.

[RF Overlord]

Flash-man:

Thank you, sir...I was concerned about the apparent difference in readings...I will hereby proceed apace with mine own installation...

FordNut: Let us know if your readings correspond with Flash's when your motor's warm...?

[FordNut]

Thanks Flash:
It snowed here again so I haven't driven it to warm it up yet. I won't drive this black beauty in the salt if I don't have to. Hopefully warming it up will bring it in line.

Wolfe, Sarge:
Yes the Silverstars are the bulbs and they're considerably brighter. Got mine at AutoZone for $20 each and get a $10 rebate. The SVO girdle is aan aluminum rear end cover with cast-in support for the bearing caps in the rear end. Is it necessary? No, maybe in a high horsepower car that spends a lot of time at the strip. But it looks cool.

Appointment for chip install next Sat. I decided to postpone my dyno runs until after the chip install so I can do more comparisons: Stock, Stock w/K&N filter, 91 octane setting, 93 octane setting. Data, data, data.

[TAF]

We're looking forward to those comparison Dyno pulls, Fordnut. Personally, I am ESPECIALLY looking for the with/without K&N Filter. I put the 2012 in mine, no real "seat of the pants" affect, so that will be interesting.

[SergntMac]

Thanks FordNut, it does sound cool. Part # and source when ya get time?

[FordNut]

I ordered the M-4033-G from my Ford SVT parts guy. I believe it was about $150. Lots of other places have them including Summit, MAC, others. Most of the others are cheaper, the lowest price I found was $119. I went with the Ford part because I wanted the machined SVO lettering in it, even though it won't be seen unless you're under the car.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by FordNut
I went with the Ford part because I wanted the machined SVO lettering in it, even though it won't be seen unless you're under the car.


LOL...Thanks, I'll let the giuy in Hit and Run know about this, just incase they find any unusual marking on a ricer's forehead...LOL

[FordNut]

It's ok. After warming up, the pressure is about 75-80 at higher rpms, 50-60 at cruising speeds (2000-2500 rpm) and about 15 when sitting at stop lights at idle.

I'm going to be pulling the gauge panel off again anyway because I decided that would be a convenient place to pick up switched power for the radar detector. The oil pressure gauge has a switched (ignition) wire and a ground wire. Shouldn't be a problem to hook a low-power device like a radar detector to it. And I can hook it up neatly with ring terminals instead of splices.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by FordNut
It's ok. After warming up, the pressure is about 75-80 at higher rpms, 50-60 at cruising speeds (2000-2500 rpm) and about 15 when sitting at stop lights at idle.

Thanks, Nut...but wow, that seems like quite a spread from idle to higher RPM...so much for the "tight clearances" idea...15# doesn't leave a lot of room before the 6# "low pressure" limit... :(

Appreciate the info...now when I do mine, I'll know right away if it's working properly... :D

[DougKing77]

Am I missing something? The oil pressure guage is not really reading what it indicates? I admit it seems to be damped but mine does go down to zero when I shut off and up to around 70PSI when running.

[FordNut]

Yes, do a search on the forums and you'll find lots of comments and gripes about it. There's a fairly easy fix, less than $100.00, takes about an hour if you work at it or maybe a couple of hours if you lolly-gag.

[WolfeBros]

Hi Doug. Do a search for "gauge" and there are several threads about the oil pressure gauge issue. In a nutshell the factory gauge that reads 60 psi is really just an on/off indication that triggers if the oil pressure is above 6.5 psi......So yeah......the gauge is a fake. It does not read real oil pressure.

[DougKing77]

Geeze, I am not intentionally attempting to flame Mercury here but man..... Between the screwed up windshield, paint, missing items and fake oil gauges I am really starting to get setamed:po: Mercury may not care about their reputation but I would THINK Autometer would be concerned about their name. I have always thought highly of them. I can't believe they would let Mercury use their gauges in this way if they knew about it. It would rather they had left the gauge out completely than to try and make you think it was real. I thought it was damped since it did not move much, even under heavy acceleration. Mercury is definitely not gonna win any J.D. Power & Associates awards from ME.

[martyo]

Has anyone attempted to "break b@lls" with the dealer on this issue (in part by playing the role of dumb as to the truth about the gage?

My car will go in for service soon and I would like to try this approach before I put the chip, gears, etc in (when the dealer could blame the mods for the problem).

Comments?

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by stanleyk
Has anyone attempted to "break b@lls" with the dealer on this issue (in part by playing the role of dumb as to the truth about the gage?

My car will go in for service soon and I would like to try this approach before I put the chip, gears, etc in (when the dealer could blame the mods for the problem). Comments?

The distinction between a working oil gauge and a real working oil pressure gauge, was lost in the bowels of design long ago, to the point that maybe even the engineer who thought of adding gauges to the car to begin with, didn't consider the difference. I wouldn't expect any dealer or a salesman, or a factory rep, to be any more enlightened over this. They promised us gauges, we got gauges. If the gauge moves when you start the car, it's working. End story right there.

[Macon Marauder]

Probably the odd man out here again, but...

I know this deal with the oil gauge bothers some people. But not me. First time I saw the gauge cluster I thought, "That's nice, but why the heck are they way down there?" They look sorta cool, not very practical though. I almost never look down there. My conclusion: must be there for looks.

Then when I read here that the oil gauge was "fake" it made sense. They really are mostly cosmetic.

Honestly: I'd have preferred a "normal" needle gauge up in the dash like my TBird or 'Stang. They're not numbered, but at least I see them all the time.

As always, just IMHO.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Macon Marauder
Honestly: I'd have preferred a "normal" needle gauge up in the dash like my TBird or 'Stang. They're not numbered, but at least I see them all the time.

Yeah, but the ones in your T-bird and 'stang are fake, too..unless they're more than 15 years old... :mad:

[DougKing77]

The fact that Mercury obviously went to the trouble to make someone think it was a real oil pressure gauge and then left out what would probably cost them $10-$15 in parts to make a TRUE working oil pressure gauge. I don’t know if they thought no one would catch on to this or what, but you would think Mercury would realize that people who buy these cars want to monitor vital engine data. Sure, I don’t dwell on the oil pressure gauge but if it suddenly drops 15-20 psi you can bet it will get my attention.

[Macon Marauder]

Um, yeah. The 'Bird is an 87 and the needle is "real." But even on the 'Stang, the indicator is up high on the dash with the other instruments so I can see it. That's the point (one of them anyway) that I was trying to make.

[WolfeBros]

^^^ What Doug said ^^^ :up:

[FordNut]

Well, maybe another way to look at it is FoMoCo wanted to reduce service claims? How many people that are not very knowledgeable and understanding about oil pressure fluctuation with temperature, engine speed, etc. would take their car in for service when they saw the pressure fluctuate like I've seen? I'm just thankful there is a nice-looking place to mount the real gauges and they are basically a bolt-in replacement.

[WolfeBros]

I hear what your saying FordNut. Maybe they should go back to idiot lights ?? (properly named I think...lol ) Back in the 60's all of us motorheads put the Stewart Warner gauges on under the dash so we COULD monitor engine performance because all we had was the idiot lights. Car makers finally catch on.....thinks its sexy.....sex sells so they add real gauges instead of or in conjunction with lights. Rewind back a few years.......some genius at Ford shows a way to save a few bucks by putting in a gauge that acts like a real indication but as we know is not.

I know this thread runs on and on but it was the way we were duped into thinking we really got real gauges this time that pisses me off.

This answer is no way intended to flame you FordNut. You obviously are a "car guy" and know what you are doing. I too have bought the real gauges and will install them. You and I are on the same page.

My last .02 cents on this is that the argument that Ford has always had inaccurate oil pressure indications is a lame one. This time we were told to believe different in the advertising and by luring us in with a name brand gauge manufacturer well known for their accurate indications of engine monitoring. I would have much preferred the real gauge in the MM and for those that do not know what the gauge is telling them, all it takes is ONE page in the owners manual to explain it. (and the lack of a check engine light for no oil pressure is beyond me). FMC wants it both ways.....they think we are too stupid to react to what a gauge is telling us but lose a motor for lack of oil pressure and they will argue with you that you weren't monitoring the gauges. Go figure. I am done on this topic. Flame away boys.
Anyway I know I am right.....lol :D

[prchrman]

Haven't had a real gauge since the 1/8" tubing blew of the back of the gauge on my 72 chevy truck and soaked my pants and shoes with really old black quaker state. Does anybody use the REAL oil pressure gauges anymore? Probably not. Would be nice to know real pressure though.

[WolfeBros]

In a word Willie yes. The secret sauce is in the sending unit. With the right sending unit and gauge, you do get an accurate oil pressure indication without running the tubing like we used to do. Autometer makes such a gauge and sending unit.

[mtnh]

Hey Fordnut,

which headlamp part number did you get for the silverstars? Is there only one bulb per side now on these rigs? So a part # 9007ST would be what we need for the MM (to see at night)?

Thanks.

Mike
00 LS MTX
03 MM ATX

[FordNut]

Yes, 9007ST is the part #, one per side. They are noticeably brighter, whiter, better.

[martyo]

Fordnut: Are they are direct swap or are there any changes to be made to the wiring harness?

[FordNut]

The headlights are a direct fit. Kind of a pain to install, though. First, the dome-like covers have to come off. They rotate to release from the tabs, then just pop off. One of mine didn't want to rotate all the way so I had to use a tiny screwdriver to convince it with some gentle prying. It's hard to get your hands in there, especially if you're a big guy. I thought about pulling the battery and airbox but it wasn't necessary. Once the covers are off, unplug the wires (again some gentle use of a small screwdriver can be helpful, just don't break off the tabs) and twist the retaining rings off. The tricky part is to get the old bulbs out and the new ones back in there without touching the glass (quartz). Just reverse the disassembly process and they'll be ready to go.

Just a thought... sometimes you can get the parts guys at AutoZone (probably others) to do small jobs like wiper blades, batteries, bulbs (free.) I suppose Pep Boys would charge you since they have an actual service dept.

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
.....without running the tubing like we used to do. Autometer makes such a gauge and sending unit.


Gentleman;

I have tracked this post and other's similiar, maybe I did not see it.
...actually I am tired of searching...?:rolleyes:

What is the part # for the autoguage (oil) replacement? I have a summit book in front of me, they carry lots...

Cruz

[RF Overlord]

AutoMeter # 4327

[CRUZTAKER]

Thanks, I just found the "Confirmation autometer...." post with instructions. I need a flippen road map to find my way around here!

Cruztaker

[Black Badger]

How come everyone seems to be installing autometer oil pressure gauge # 4327 which is an electric sender gauge instead of autometer oil pressure gauge # 4321 which is a mechanical gauge. Just curious

[RF Overlord]

badger:

A mechanical gauge requires oil to be plumbed into it, usually through a tiny nylon hose (1/8" or something?). If that hose ever breaks, you then pump potentially scalding oil into your car, or on yourself. The only safe place to mount a mechanical oil pressure gauge is outside the passenger cabin, most commonly on a bracket inside the engine compartment.

[FordNut]

Not to mention the electric gauge connects to the standard wiring harness (with different connectors) and requires no drilling, rewiring, etc.

[Black Badger]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
badger:

A mechanical gauge requires oil to be plumbed into it, usually through a tiny nylon hose (1/8" or something?). If that hose ever breaks, you then pump potentially scalding oil into your car, or on yourself. The only safe place to mount a mechanical oil pressure gauge is outside the passenger cabin, most commonly on a bracket inside the engine compartment.

Yes.I understand about the oil line entering the cabin.
I’ve been doing it that way for years and have never had a problem.:)


I just thought I overlooked something or it had something to do with the wiring harness or ecu,ecm....


Today you can upgrade the line to either Braided Stainless Steel
with fittings or even Kevlar Hose. (sure I’ve heard horror stories but if you install it right there should be no problem)

[FordNut]

Just a thought... If you used one of these mechanical gauges, you could connect the sending unit with a "T", using the original wiring for an idiot light. A bright red light coming on would possibly get your attention quicker than a gauge needle dropping.

[SergntMac]

Once again, FordNut, thanks for a well prepared "how to" on this.

[jgc61sr2002]

FORDNUT - Very true the gague is mounted low and a red light on the dash would be more noticeable. John:)

[CRUZTAKER]

Has anyone figured out if this guage is is connected to the ECU in some fashion? I am ready to do it, but the ford tech at the dealership had to go and say something to get me wondering again....

[LincMercLover]

I think it's been determined by others that unplugging/replacing the gauge has no effect what-so-ever on the ECU. A Check Engine would not come on for low oil pressure, nor would it send a code. Engine codes are more emmissions related than actually what's wrong with the car...

[FordNut]

Correct, the gauge & sending unit is basically stand-alone in function and is not connected to the PCM (isn't that what the computer is now referred to?) in any way. I wonder... could you connect the aftermarket gauge & sending unit with a "T" at the sending units and leave the OEM sending unit installed. Then run a wire from the OEM sending unit to an engine "kill" signal somewhere in the wiring to the PCM? Just a thought.

[NickLee]

Guys just got my Auto Meters gauges for the oil and volts, can someone give me a hint on installing sending unit on engine, where?

[merc]

At startup 75 psi, after warm-up idle 22-24 psi, at speed 50, and pedal to the medal 80 to 85 psi depending on last oil change.

[WolfeBros]

Nicklee the sending unit screws into the oil filter adapter.
It is in the left front of the engine and is just in front of the oil filter. The OEM sender and wiring harness has a plug. The autometer sender takes just a wire. You can use the exsisting wiring but you have to cut the connector off or make an adapter. I am hesitant to tell you to do this yourself if you have not done this type of work before. It is not hard to do but you are making changes to a new car under warranty. Keep that in mind. Use teflon tape on the sender.

[Ray Snyder]

When I make the change to the oil gage. I fully intend to send the fake back to who ever is in charge of the MM program, and politly explain to them that they obviously don't understand thier customers. $35K for a " MUSCLE CAR" with an idiot gage ?.

I think if enough people sent the old ones in to the same person at LM they might get the message.

[drobin]

Guys, factory clearly states the following regarding oil pressure switch operation "Closes with normal oil pressure, causing a gauge reading of Normal. With low oil pressure, switch opens and causes a low gauge reading.

See page 62-1 (Instrument Cluster- Performance) in wiring diagram manual.

Looks like they are in the clear if anything happens and all systems were working properly but driver failed to noticed something was going wrong...

Any comments on this?

Donald

[LincMercLover]

Yah, couldn't they make the gauge change colors or ding when not in the normal opperating range? That'd be pretty cool! :up: :D

[NickLee]

WolfeBros thanks for the information. Shouldn't have any problem.

[vegasmarauder]

After reading about the oil pressure gauge really being a fancy on/off switch I decided to take a closer look at mine. I found that when I turn the key on with the engine off I had "normal" 65 lbs pressure. Did some looking and found that when the power steering pump was assembled at the factory they caught the wire to the oil sender and EOV steering under the pump and crushed it to the engine grounding it. Going in to the dealer tommorrow to fix. FYI for all of you to check yours. It would have shown normal pressure with no oil in it!!! Anyway, ordered the Auto Meter gauge today. If you reach down by behind the P/S pump and pull on the wire slightly it should have some give. If not, it may be pinched too. Of course if the gauge works with the engine off, that's a good sign it's shorted too.

Jim

[jgc61sr2002]

vagssmarauder - Thanks for the heads up. Will check in AM. John

[Ross]

My gauges work well. At idle, I get about 75 lbs. on my oil gauge, and almost 14 volts on my voltmeter. I can see the voltmeter drop a little under load.

[RF Overlord]

Ross: do you have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge?

[Ross]

No after market gauges, mine is all stock (so far) except for my K&N air filter.

[FordNut]

Ross,
I'll bet your oil pressure indicates the same whether the car is hot or cold, idling or revved up. That ain't a real pressure gauge.

[Ross]

Not a real pressure gauge?! I think I'm about to get a lesson on gauges. What does the gauge measure if not true pressure? If the gauge isn't a real one, and I want to put in a real one, which ones are good, and will fit in the same space without any modifications? Also, how difficult will it be to install a real one without messing something up?

[Blue Marauder]

Originally posted by Ross
Not a real pressure gauge?! I think I'm about to get a lesson on gauges. What does the gauge measure if not true pressure? If the gauge isn't a real one, and I want to put in a real one, which ones are good, and will fit in the same space without any modifications? Also, how difficult will it be to install a real one without messing something up?

Do a search on "oil pressure," "gauge," or a combo of the two. The info is already out there on this board.

[MMM2003]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2911

Check above link to Sarge's recent adventures. In addition do a search for "Gauge".

You'll find plenty of info.

Real briefly, the oil pressure gauge doesn't really measure anything. It just comes on and always stays at same level, when the ignition is turned on.

[drobin]

MMM2003,

Better check this out since the gauge should only read Zero pressure with ignition turned on. See previous post regarding a similiar members problems with this condition.

Donald

[Ross]

OK--after reading all of these posts, I called Auto meter and I'm going to order PN 4427 (a previous post said 4327, but the guy at Autometer and their website says 4427), and have a real pressure gauge. I have seen a previous post about installing the wiring, and about how you have to cut a connector and make some sort of adapter. This kind of has me scared, and I wonder if I'm going to get a good installation with a rigged up connection? Also, how do I get the original gauge out of the cluster without a pry bar and lots of scars left on the car? Are there any detailed instructions anywhere? I'm not incompetent with tools, but I don't want to mess up a new car, either mechanically or cosmetically. As usual, thanks guys. Ross

[Blue Marauder]

Originally posted by Ross
OK--after reading all of these posts, I called Auto meter and I'm going to order PN 4427 (a previous post said 4327, but the guy at Autometer and their website says 4427), and have a real pressure gauge. I have seen a previous post about installing the wiring, and about how you have to cut a connector and make some sort of adapter. This kind of has me scared, and I wonder if I'm going to get a good installation with a rigged up connection? Also, how do I get the original gauge out of the cluster without a pry bar and lots of scars left on the car? Are there any detailed instructions anywhere? I'm not incompetent with tools, but I don't want to mess up a new car, either mechanically or cosmetically. As usual, thanks guys. Ross

4327 is for the 2 1/16" diameter gauge. 4427 is for the 2 5/8" diameter gauge. You might want to measure your gauges.

[RF Overlord]

4327 is the correct gauge set...

[FordNut]

Ross,
For detailed removal & replacement instructions just search these posts. The cluster just pulls loose. Detailed instructions are on here somewhere.

The stock gauge should read 0 when the key is on but engine not running. About 75 when the engine is running. It's just a fancy idiot light.