HotRod PC's anyone?

[BillyGman]

Does anyone here have a really serious home PC? I've been thinking about some upgrade mods to mine, but I'm not sure what would be the best bang for the buck. There are a number of things which I don't even understand what they are when it comes to this PC stuff. For instance, does anyone here have a 64 bit PC?? if so, did getting that add any speed to it? BTW, below are the specs to my PC:

processor speed @3.06GHz

memory- 1.5GB of RDRAM

video card- 128MB DDR ATI Radeon 9700 PRO

Hard Drive- 7200 RPM 200GB

....I've been considering a 64 bit system and/or a 10,000 RPM Hard drive, along with a 256MB video card. What do you PC guys think? BTW, I have DSL. Recently having to get someone else to render and edit my latest burnout video kind of sparked a desire in me to get some primo software to do these things myself, and that way I can do things myself, the way I want them done as far as videos go, and I also like to play some video games as well.

[MikesMerc]

Do I hot rod PC's? Here is a pic of my gaming machine:
http://home.comcast.net/~mdzcpa/04Labpics/gamer1.jpg
System Specs:
AMD FX 55 CPU
MSI Neo2 sckt 939 mobo
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
ATI Radeon X800 XT PE
Audigy 2 ZS
2 x 74g Raptors in RAID 0

The CPU is phase change cooled to -40c under load and ran at 3.2ghz (600mhz above the stock spec at 2.6ghz). The video card is water cooler and overclocked as well. I'm getting performance out of this rig that won't hit the OEM channel for at least another year:D

Anyway, Billy, not suggesting you get radical like this, but I do have a handle on PC hardware....its my "other" hobby. I build systems for friends and family and assemble the components based on intended use and budget. Feel free to ask any questions.

Here's were I think you should go:

AMD64 3800+ or 4000+
Socket 939 Nforce4 motherboard (Asus A8N) with PCI Express
ATI Radeon X800 LE or X850
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
2 x 74g Raptors 10k rpm in RAID 0
Sony Dual Layer DVD Burner

This is plenty of power that will last you. Keys to the system include the AMD64 CPU (has the "real" 64 bit extensions for XP 64 when it comes out in a few months, is more bang for the buck than Intel, and is socket 939...the latest spec), the Nforce4 chipset mobo which offers the best performance and broadest functionality, PCI Express...the latest bus architecture, and the Raptors in RAID 0 for video edit and such. Also the Asus mobo offers SLI which is the integration of 2 graphics cards for massive performance. You can start with one card and add another later on if you choose.

Get me a budget and I'll get you some hard specs.

[Petrograde]

Wow Mike,.. :up: that is some serious hardware! My next upgrade will be to AMD 64 bit FX. In fact,.. I would've already except I keep spending the money on the Marauder! :P

I've been an AMD fan for a while. IMO Intel sucks... at least for what I like to do, gaming and high end graphics ( I'm learning Lightwave ,.. what a PITA! )

[MarauderMark]

Yea Mike Thats definantly a high performance peice.it looks like under someones hood.Modified cooling sys , Supercharger & braided lines ..Thats very nice.. :up:

[valkyrie]

Do I hot rod PC's? Here is a pic of my gaming machine:
http://home.comcast.net/~mdzcpa/04Labpics/gamer1.jpg
System Specs:
AMD FX 55 CPU
MSI Neo2 sckt 939 mobo
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
ATI Radeon X800 XT PE
Audigy 2 ZS
2 x 74g Raptors in RAID 0

The CPU is phase change cooled to -40c under load and ran at 3.2ghz (600mhz above the stock spec at 2.6ghz). The video card is water cooler and overclocked as well. I'm getting performance out of this rig that won't hit the OEM channel for at least another year:D

Anyway, Billy, not suggesting you get radical like this, but I do have a handle on PC hardware....its my "other" hobby. I build systems for friends and family and assemble the components based on intended use and budget. Feel free to ask any questions.

Here's were I think you should go:

AMD64 3800+ or 4000+
Socket 939 Nforce4 motherboard (Asus A8N) with PCI Express
ATI Radeon X800 LE or X850
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
2 x 74g Raptors 10k rpm in RAID 0
Sony Dual Layer DVD Burner

This is plenty of power that will last you. Keys to the system include the AMD64 CPU (has the "real" 64 bit extensions for XP 64 when it comes out in a few months, is more bang for the buck than Intel, and is socket 939...the latest spec), the Nforce4 chipset mobo which offers the best performance and broadest functionality, PCI Express...the latest bus architecture, and the Raptors in RAID 0 for video edit and such. Also the Asus mobo offers SLI which is the integration of 2 graphics cards for massive performance. You can start with one card and add another later on if you choose.

Get me a budget and I'll get you some hard specs.

I usually build my own but I went out and bought a Alienware the last time around.

[duhtroll]

The AMDs on the market cannot match the Intel when it comes to multitasking speed.

I have an abacus. I also have this 3.0 full P4 laptop (not a mobile, not any of that centrino or sempron crap - full P4) that school bought me. It rates "inifinity" on the download speed tests. The battery lasts a good 1.5 hours this thing is so powerful (which is fine since it's my desktop machine)

At home in addition to the abacus I have a new 3.1gHz P4 machine with 1GB DDR and that seems to run anything (effortlessly) I throw at it.

I hate Macs. With that said, if you are looking to create and edit videos, then Mac has the easiest/best software to use and the PC market has not caught up yet IMO.

Of course if you want to play anything but a low-end version of PONG for video games then PC is the way to go. :) And I don't care what the ratings say, a PC runs/loads programs/surfs the net faster than a MAC does, hands down.

-A

[FiveO]

Alienware machines are definitely high end.

I've got 1 gig of RAM and a 256mb ATI Radeon 9600 Pro in my Dell 8300.

It'll get me along for the next year or so max....after that....I'll be buying an Alienware.


My next computer will have at least 2gb of RAM and several of the specs that Mike talked about.

Looking forward to Battlefield 2 :D


Oh yeah...my desktop will never have less than a 20" screen either. I'm running a 21" CRT monitor but the next one will have a 20" LCD flatscreen.

[Petrograde]

The AMDs on the market cannot match the Intel when it comes to multitasking speed.

-A

uh oh,.. here we go,.. AMD vs. Intel. :P (aka Roots vs. Centrifugal) :lol:

My AMD's have never had a problem with multitasking. here's a good example: yesterday, I was running Lightwave 6.5 (a high end 3D graphics program that they use for Star Wars, LotR, etc.) it takes some mad system resources. I also had AOL running in the backround, I was also listening to some Tool & A Perfect Circle on WinAmp, and I had a 1000+ page PDF open, and had at least 3 Mozilla Firefox windows open. My 2 gHz AMD kept on truckin' :D

[BruteForce]

processor speed @3.06GHz
memory- 1.5GB of RDRAM
video card- 128MB DDR ATI Radeon 9700 PRO
Hard Drive- 7200 RPM 200GB

....I've been considering a 64 bit system and/or a 10,000 RPM Hard drive, along with a 256MB video card.

That's a pretty respectable system already. Is there any particular performance bottleneck you're trying to fix by upgrading?

As for 64-bit, I'd leave it on the shelf for now. There is a 64-bit version of Windows XP (and Server 2003), but there are few if any (none that I can think of) consumer applications that are coded for a 64-bit environment not to mention 64-bit drivers for consumer-level hardware. That means that most (if not all) of your apps would be running in 32-bit emulation which which would take a performance hit that would gobble up any speed advantages to running 64-bit. Those of us who can remember the industry conversion from 16-bit (DOS, Windows 3.x) to 32-bit (Windows 95, OS/2) can attest to the software "pain and suffering" these kind of tidal shifts can cause. That is until all the hardware & software mfgs catch up.

[TechHeavy]

Does anyone here have a really serious home PC? I've been thinking about some upgrade mods to mine, but I'm not sure what would be the best bang for the buck. There are a number of things which I don't even understand what they are when it comes to this PC stuff. For instance, does anyone here have a 64 bit PC?? if so, did getting that add any speed to it? BTW, below are the specs to my PC:

processor speed @3.06GHz

memory- 1.5GB of RDRAM

video card- 128MB DDR ATI Radeon 9700 PRO

Hard Drive- 7200 RPM 200GB

....I've been considering a 64 bit system and/or a 10,000 RPM Hard drive, along with a 256MB video card. What do you PC guys think? BTW, I have DSL. Recently having to get someone else to render and edit my latest burnout video kind of sparked a desire in me to get some primo software to do these things myself, and that way I can do things myself, the way I want them done as far as videos go, and I also like to play some video games as well.Hey Billy, other than a lot of video editing, what else are you going to do with your PC? I mean, unless you're going to be playing the very latest video games, (DOOM3, Half-Life 2, Halo, Far Cry) that can bring average PCs to their knees, then I think your current CPU, RAM, and video-card are more than adequate.
However, here's my suggestion for your video needs. One word, RAID! Putting a RAID array on your system is like supercharging your Marauder. You'll notice a huge performance increase right off the line... LOL!
If you're not familiar with RAID, let me know, I'll explain. One quick point: A striped RAID array, (RAID 0) makes 2 drives work as one, only twice as fast. I have RAID 0 in all four systems on my home network and the read/write times are incredible.... (a must for big video chores... will cut time in half).

[TechHeavy]

Do I hot rod PC's? Here is a pic of my gaming machine:
http://home.comcast.net/~mdzcpa/04Labpics/gamer1.jpg
System Specs:
AMD FX 55 CPU
MSI Neo2 sckt 939 mobo
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
ATI Radeon X800 XT PE
Audigy 2 ZS
2 x 74g Raptors in RAID 0

The CPU is phase change cooled to -40c under load and ran at 3.2ghz (600mhz above the stock spec at 2.6ghz). The video card is water cooler and overclocked as well. I'm getting performance out of this rig that won't hit the OEM channel for at least another year:D

Anyway, Billy, not suggesting you get radical like this, but I do have a handle on PC hardware....its my "other" hobby. I build systems for friends and family and assemble the components based on intended use and budget. Feel free to ask any questions.

Here's were I think you should go:

AMD64 3800+ or 4000+
Socket 939 Nforce4 motherboard (Asus A8N) with PCI Express
ATI Radeon X800 LE or X850
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
2 x 74g Raptors 10k rpm in RAID 0
Sony Dual Layer DVD Burner

This is plenty of power that will last you. Keys to the system include the AMD64 CPU (has the "real" 64 bit extensions for XP 64 when it comes out in a few months, is more bang for the buck than Intel, and is socket 939...the latest spec), the Nforce4 chipset mobo which offers the best performance and broadest functionality, PCI Express...the latest bus architecture, and the Raptors in RAID 0 for video edit and such. Also the Asus mobo offers SLI which is the integration of 2 graphics cards for massive performance. You can start with one card and add another later on if you choose.

Get me a budget and I'll get you some hard specs.
LOL! Nice rig Mike! The only thinig missing is the new mobo that supports native video SLI! Then you can put in dual 6800 Ultras! Have you read the reviews? Suhhweeet!

[BillyGman]

WOW!!! You guys have really blown me away with all this info!!! But that's great, because I've obviously asked the right bunch of people. Mike, that's a Hi-perf looking system alright. In response to some questions here, and comments too, yes, the set-up I have now is definately nothing to sneeze at. It's pretty good. I have a Dell 8250 which was the absolute best that Dell had to offer as of late 2003 (which is when I bought it).

I like certain video games, and sometimes I've noticed that my system occassionaly has a tough time w/the "Call of Duty" games, and it crashes, and wants to go into "safe" mode. So I'm assuming that it's my video card, and that I should move from a 128 to a 256 card, right? I also just saw someone playing that "Half-Life 2" game, and I'll probably be getting that one, because it looks like something I'd like since my favorites have been "Medal of Honor" and "Call of Duty".

I'm also thinking that you can never have fast enough download speeds for internet surfing. Like BruteForce has said, my system that I have now is no slouch, but in my mind the faster the better. I guess I have a Supercharger mentality when it comes to computers too. :D ....and obviously Mike does also. I want the fastest possible. But it sounds to me that BruteForce has brought up a good point about the 64bit options. What good is it, if it still isn't all that applicable yet? The 10K RPM Hard Drive sounds like a good option though.

Now Mark, I've heard of this "RAID" thing before, but I have no idea what it is, or what it does. Can you or anyone else elaborate? And Mike, I'll keep in mind what you've said. I guess I have to decide how much coin I'll have towards this endeaver. I might have to wait until tax return time to decide that.

[TechHeavy]

WOW!!! You guys have really blown me away with all this info!!! But that's great, because I've obviously asked the right bunch of people. Mike, that's a Hi-perf looking system alright. In response to some questions here, and comments too, yes, the set-up I have now is definately nothing to sneeze at. It's pretty good. I have a Dell 8250 which was the absolute best that Dell had to offer as of late 2003 (which is when I bought it).

I like certain video games, and sometimes I've noticed that my system occassionaly has a tough time w/the "Call of Duty" games, and it crashes, and wants to go into "safe" mode. So I'm assuming that it's my video card, and that I should move from a 128 to a 256 card, right? I also just saw someone playing that "Half-Life 2" game, and I'll probably be getting that one, because it looks like something I'd like since my favorites have been "Medal of Honor" and "Call of Duty".

I'm also thinking that you can never have fast enough download speeds for internet surfing. Like BruteForce has said, my system that I have no is no slouch, but in my mind the faster the better. I guess I have a Supercharger mentality when it comes to computers too. :D I want the fastest possible. But it sounds to me that BruteForce has brought up a good point about the 64bit options. What good is it, if it still isn't all that applicable yet?

Now Mark, I've heard of this "RAID" thing before, but I have no idea what it is, or what it does. Can you or anyone else elaborate? And Mike, I'll keep in mind what you've said. I guess I have to decide how much coin I'll have towards this endeaver. I might have to wait until tax return time to decide that.Billy, (I think you were responding to me about the RAID... I mentioned it in my post).

RAID Basics 101:
RAID stands for "Redundant array of independent disks", (at least in my camp). What it does is allows you to use 2 or more drives of the same size, (preferrably the same exact drive) as a single but faster drive. Before I explain about the different types of RAID, let me describe how it works.
Imagine you are back in college and are taking notes in a large lecture hall from a Prof. who talks really fast. Imagine how much faster you could take notes if you could write with your left and right hands simultaneously! But it gets better. Imagine if you could break down all the words in the human language and split them in half assigning one half to the left hand and the other half to the right hand! This is how a RAID 0, (striped) array works. This is the fastest performing form of RAID since there is no mirroring, (and what I recommend for systems with large video editing tasks)..... (actually I recommend it for anyone since I would rather go faster all the time with the slight chance of losing data if one of the drives fails). Yes, that's the only drawback of a striped array. If one drive fails you lose the data on all the drives... The alternative, (though not as fast for obvious reasons) is to use one of the redundant RAIDs. RAIDs 1-5 all duplicate data, (mirror) from the array so that if one drive fails, there is a good chance the data can be recovered and the array reconstructed.

I have always used RAID 0, (nearly 10 years now) and have NEVER lost an array due to one of the drives failing. In fact, within the past 5 years, Hard-drives have become even more reliable due to greater manufacturing quality, and better components within. Rarely ever do you hear about a hard-drive "crashing" any more.

Get another 200GB HD like the one you have, and a RocketRAID ATA133 PCI card from NewEgg.com for about $40, and slap that bad boy in. You'll notice a HUGE difference in read/write/access times. My PC never bogs down, (even when multitasking). It executes as fast as I can click.

Hope this helps,
Dave

[BillyGman]

Yes, that was you I was refering to DAVE. I apologize for calling you "Mark". I was just writing to Five O (Mark) lastnight, and was thinking about something I had told him, and so because I had that on my mind I mistakingly refered to you as Mark. Anyway, thankyou for that explanation on the RAID set-up. that does sound interesting. Do you think there's any advantage to a 10K RPM hard Drive? And have you ever used one? If so, are they a lot more noisey?

[BruteForce]

Yes, that was you I was refering to DAVE. I apologize for calling you "Mark". I was just writing to Five O (Mark) lastnight, and was thinking about something I had told him, and so because I had that on my mind I mistakingly refered to you as Mark. Anyway, thankyou for that explanation on the RAID set-up. that does sound interesting. Do you think there's any advantage to a 10K RPM hard Drive? And have you ever used one? If so, are they a lot more noisey?

2 x 10K RPM Raptors (SATA drives) in RAID 0 will give the best read/write HD performance available. Even rivals enterprise class SCSI arrays that cost thousands more. Only thing faster is solid state (essentially persistent RAM) but you'll need deep pockets for those. Noise is not an issue with these drives. Not so with other 10K implementations. I have a server behind me that runs an RAID 5 array of 10K RPM Seagate SCSI disks and you can tell from anywhere in the room when it spools up. :D

[BillyGman]

2 x 10K RPM Raptors (SATA drives) in RAID 0 will give the best read/write HD performance available. Even rivals enterprise class SCSI arrays that cost thousands more.Okay, now I assume that "Raptor" is a model or brand name of HD. What about the term "SATA"? Is that a type of HD that is available in many different brands,or is that a brand name or a model name specific to the "Raptor" brand? Only thing faster is solid state (essentially persistent RAM) but you'll need deep pockets for those. Forgive me if I'm sounding a bit eccentric here, but what if I wanted to investigate costs of this high-end stuff? Are the two websites that were mentioned earlier in this thread places that I would be able to find such things? Noise is not an issue with these drives. Not so with other 10K implementations. I have a server behind me that runs an RAID 5 array of 10K RPM Seagate SCSI disks and you can tell from anywhere in the room when it spools up. :DI hope you're not getting sick of all my questions (maybe I should buy a book on this stuff!), but again, I assume that "seagate" is a brand name, but what about "SCSI"? Is that model or brand specific, or is that a type of HD that can be had in many brands? So what it sounds to me fropm what you guys are saying is that a "RAID 0" is the way to go, instead of a "RAID 5" or something else.

[Rick-n-Miami]

Building a personal rig can be a tricky situation. All in all, it boils down to your needs and your compatibility with the system; balancing the two can be very difficult. For instance…

Up until recently, I've always had the most potent workstation money can buy. Over-clocked to the max, voltage tweaked, etc. to give me the most power possible. This (much like my newly found Marauder addiction) gave me great satisfaction, quenching my "nerd/man ego." This was good for all the latest games and impressing my friends, but it came with a few downsides, most of which I have recently grown to despise.

All of this power likely means greater size and noise. For some this isn’t a problem, but for me, a person who works next to his machine for 16+ hours a day, it became a nightmare.

In contrast to my huge 16 bay tower case on remote-controlled wheels, with 10x fans, 6x 10k RPM SCSI disks in RAID 5, etc., I’ve scaled down to a mini-pc with no fans at all and a small PATA RAID 1 setup. While not the fastest machine on the market, it’s still a respectable 2GHz with 2GB of PC2700 and a Radeon 9000; adequate for most applications. On the bright side, it is absolutely silent, doesn’t take up much space and can fit nicely between my dual 22” displays.

The bottom line is, think about what you’ll be using the machine for and what you want out of it. If your machine is in a quiet or small room and you’d like to keep it quiet or not take up much space, you’ll need to consider things like this. It may not bother you now, but you might be surprised after a few months.

Then again, if you’re goal is to always be able to play the latest games with the most FPS possible, go for it :)

[Rick-n-Miami]

Segate is a drive manufacturer. They make very solid drives, I do recommend them.

SCSI is a disk interface, like IDE or SATA. SCSI is generally found in high-end workstations or servers, and is faster than IDE or SATA. The downside to SCSI is it's usually 3x-4x the cost and can run loud and hot.

RAID for a workstation is a good idea. RAID 0 provides ZERO data protection whatsoever. If one disk goes bad, you lose all data. It is the fastest of the RAID levels though.

RAID 1 is called mirroring. You run with two disks, each an exact clone of the other. If one disk fails, no big deal because the second is still there. The disk writes are slower than a single disk (mainly because of the overhead operations having to ensure both disks are doing the same thing), but the read speed is a tad faster. It essentially reads one half of the data from one drive, and the other have from the second; cutting the read time down a bit.

RAID 5 is a combination of the two above, sort of. It uses a minimum of a 3rd disk to create a parity state in which if one drive is lost, the data on the two (or more) remaining drives can be used to rebuild the bad disk. Simply replacing the bad disk with a new one (typically of equal size, brand and type), the RAID controller can restore your data in a matter of hours.

For a workstation with sensitive data, I recommend RAID 1 or RAID 5. If you're only looking for speed and could careless about data integrity, go for RAID 0.


I hope you're not getting sick of all my questions (maybe I should buy a book on this stuff!), but again, I assume that "seagate" is a brand name, but what about "SCSI"? Is that model or brand specific, or is that a type of HD that can be had in many brands? So what it sounds to me fropm what you guys are saying is that a "RAID 0" is the way to go, instead of a "RAID 5" or something else.

[Rick-n-Miami]

BTW, if any of you guys are high-level sysadmins or network engineers and would be interested in a very lucrative job, PM me. :)

[Bigdogjim]

WOW! The things you can learn on a car web site:)

[Bradley G]

Hard drive?Or Drive hard?...............That's an easy one;)

Bradley G

[BruteForce]

Looking forward to Battlefield 2 :D

Another Battlefield fan? Maybe we need to organize a clan of Marauder owners. MMarauders would be an appropriate name. :D

[BillyGman]

Rick, Dave, BruteForce, and everyone, thankyou all very much for all this info. it sounds to me like RAID 0 is the way for me to go. And I fully understand and appreciate your comments about the need for me to consider what it is that I want out of my PC Rick. ;) I always tell people that same thing about considering modifications to their Marauders. :banana2:

....and BTW, in light of the fact that we've all met through this website which our PC's have brought us to, I don't thik that discussing computer stuff on an INTERNET car board is really that far fetched, nor that far off-topic. If it weren't for our PC's, then this board wouldn't even exist, nor would the internet for that matter.

[BruteForce]

I hope you're not getting sick of all my questions (maybe I should buy a book on this stuff!), but again, I assume that "seagate" is a brand name, but what about "SCSI"? Is that model or brand specific, or is that a type of HD that can be had in many brands? So what it sounds to me fropm what you guys are saying is that a "RAID 0" is the way to go, instead of a "RAID 5" or something else.

I'll try and answer what's been missed by others. SATA is the latest hard drive interface. Stands for Serial ATA. If you're looking at 10K RPM IDE drives, then they are likely Western Digital Raptors. WD is the manufacturer and Raptor is the model. There are several sizes within that model as well.

Short detour here... If you go RAID 0, you need to think about some kind of data backup strategy. Irregardless of how reliable drives are now and in the future, its not a matter of IF you will experience a drive failure, but WHEN. My setup is on a network where I keep all my data on a central server (which is running RAID 5) that gets backed up daily to tape. If I have a failure on my workstation, its just a matter of rebuilding the hardware & reinstalling applications.

Back on task now... just checked Dell regarding your model and it doesn't look like it supports SATA drives on the board so you'd need a PCI (interface) SATA RAID controller to plug the drives into. Probably more hassle than its worth. If I were doing this, I would scrap the Dell and start from scratch with new parts. Nothing wrong with having more than 1 PC in the house. :)

As far as prices, check newegg.com. They are pretty competitive and have just about everything.

[Slowpoke]

SATA is indeed a better alternative than SCSI, at a fraction of the cost.

Go with Raid 0, your PC will fly.

Western Digital drives are better than Seagate. Quieter, less time between failures, etc.

I would choose AMD over Intel any day; AMD 64 is backward compatible and will run 32 bit applications faster than Intel. Don't let those 'mh' comparisons fool you. We all know that cubic inches of an engine don't always translate into more speed.

I would not opt to build it yourself, rather choosing a company who builds high performace PC's. I've been recommending www.velocitymicro.com lately and I like their approach. ABS, Alienware, etc. There are a number of companies that do the same type of thing.

The best thing you can do to your comuter to make it go faster is to increase the speed and amount of your RAM. Mushkin is good too. Stay away from overclocking if possible.... unless you're a complete geek and know exactly what you are doing.

This reminds me of the debate between Firewise and USB 2; USB2 is faster than Firewire, but Firewire gives better results...

Spend a month or two studiying Slashdot and you will know a lot more than you know now about hardware choices vis-a-vis their pros and cons.

Thats all I have to say at the moment on this subject.

[BillyGman]

applications.

Back on task now... just checked Dell regarding your model and it doesn't look like it supports SATA drives on the board so you'd need a PCI (interface) SATA RAID controller to plug the drives into. Probably more hassle than its worth. If I were doing this, I would scrap the Dell and start from scratch with new parts. Nothing wrong with having more than 1 PC in the house. :)
Hey thanks for going the extra mile and checking on that for me!!! Those are some very sobering facts. In light of all that, then I'm not so sure that all of this will be in the budget then. I mean I might have to sell my curent Dell 8250 model PC if I want to scrape up enough coin for something a whole lot better than what I already have. And because this PC was very expensive, I'm sure that I'd take a serious loss by selling it. I only have this PC for home use. I'm a mechanic, and I haven't even any great need for a PC at work since I build helicopters that go to the military. So I haven't any need to be on the net at all for work. I might have to hold off on this whole hotrod PC idea for another year or so,and be satisfied with the better than average system that I already have. And perhaps in another year or so, the hardware and software manufactures will be caught up w/all of this 64 bit issue anyway.

[Slowpoke]

oh, and another thing. If your motherboard does not support SATA and you use a controller card to add SATA drives your performance will suffer. I suggest getting the best motherboard possible, one which will support the processor you want and have room for at least 4 gb of RAM. People often overlook the important of a good power supply; not just in terms of wattage but in terms of QUALITY. There was an articel about power supplies in this month's CPU magazine where they tested a bunch and some of the higher wattage power supplies actually failed their tests. Antec is a good choice here.

[Slowpoke]

last but not least... unless all you are interested in is surfing the web, using Quicken, and downloading music...stay away from Dell, Gateway, and all the other 'home consumer level' products. They use cheap OEM innards and are not built for performance.

[jgc61sr2002]

last but not least... unless all you are interested in is surfing the web, using Quicken, and downloading music...stay away from Dell, Gateway, and all the other 'home consumer level' products. They use cheap OEM innards and are not built for performance.


Rick - What do you recommend?

[Slowpoke]

Rick - What do you recommend?

What I would recommend would be function of the intended use. At work I have an IBM M50 3.2 gh P4. I do mostly spreadsheets and PhotoShop... some pretty intense PhotoShop too with large files (30-100mb). I've got 2 gb of RAM and a Raptor HD. It get's backed up every night to a SATA drive one on of our servers. I liked the native 1000 mbs network connection since our servers and switch gives me 1000 mps throughput. I could have gotten any machine I wanted but I chose this because it's a stable platforrm with solid components. I spent more on a Lacie monitor (than the cost of my entire system) for one of my guys who does PhotoShop and web delevlopment because that is what he needed to do his job.

But your original question is sorta like asking what kind of car someone should get without knowing what they plan to do with said vehicle. It''s pretty complicated but buying quality components will always be a better choice.

Do some research, read up on your alternatives, do some more research, decide how you are going to use your machine, do some more research, then narrow the choices.

[Rick-n-Miami]

I agree, do not go with a Dell/HP/Gateway, etc. I suggest trying ARM Systems (www.armsystems.com). They use only premium components and can build your rig in a silent configuration too.

I'd also recommend avoiding Western Digital disks, I've had very bad experience with them. In my data center, I've probably gone through over 100x bad WD's and only 20x or so bad Seagates, and thats out of probably 2000x total disks. Plus, the fluidic bearings make them less noisy than the WD couterparts.

[MikesMerc]

The AMDs on the market cannot match the Intel when it comes to multitasking speed.


Not true at all. This use to be true up to about 9 months ago. Unfortunately for Intel, thier P4 design has run into heat problems and is being scrapped. Without the ability to scale mhz Intel cannot keep up. Right now AMD is kicking Intel azz all over the performance scene. In fact, its not even close now.




As for 64-bit, I'd leave it on the shelf for now. There is a 64-bit version of Windows XP (and Server 2003), but there are few if any (none that I can think of) consumer applications that are coded for a 64-bit environment not to mention 64-bit drivers for consumer-level hardware.

Again, this information is a bit outdated. Not only is Windows XP64 due out for general desktop use, most of the drivers are ready to go. Nvidia, ATI, Creative Labs, Silicon Images, Highpoint, etc, etc all have 64 bit drivers on thier websites. Furthermore, there are literally dozens of 64 bit apps already coded for 64 waiting on Windows XP 64.

The only reason all of this stuff is not right now is due to the obvious feet dragging Microsoft has done to allow Intel to "catch up" with AMD. Now that Intel has also added 64 bit extensions (AMD 64 bit extenions no less) to thier CPUs, MS is getting ready to release XP64.

BTW, there is no performance hit when running 32 bit apps on a 64 bit system. Not sure where you picked that up, but just a quick troll around the basic websites will give you the 411 on that.

Bottom line, if I were going to buying a new processor today, getting anything without 64 bit would be foolish. In fact, it would be hard to do as both Intel and AMD have the AMD64 extensions.

The info on RAID 0 is all good. That's the way to go with any form of video edit. I keep my OS on 1 drive, and my video edit files on the RAID 0 array.

The three things you want with vidoe edit is HD speed, memory, and CPU grunt. Everyone else is correct, your system is not "bad" Billy. But if you ever seen me rip, encode, and burn some video with my monster rig, you'd be shocked. What takes 15 minutes on my buddies P4 3.2ghz machine takes about 5 minutes on mine. Not that those speeds are "all that". Its just amazing at what high end parts can do for you...budget aside.

BTW, to all on the thread. The next bing thing out is dual core CPUs. Niether AMD nor Intel will be raising the MHZ much in the futre now. Instead dual core cpus will be the new way to add performance. When Intel blew it with thier Prescott core P4 and they had to scrap the rest of thier P4 line (due to unmanageable heat problems) they accelerated thier plans to dual core design. AMD has followed suit and is likely to put out thier dual core designs first by 3Q 2005. Just FYI on the latest tech.

One last point. If you have the know how, it is always always always better to build your rig yourself. Those alienware systems are a rip off! I can build the same (and I mean exact same) for about a $1000 cheaper. They are nice rigs, but they are over priced (as are the vodoos, falcons, etc).

[Bradley G]

If the technology is so great, Then how come only a few can see the vid?I'd rather just have things work( even if it takes two miliseconds longer!)
Bradley G

[Slowpoke]

If the technology is so great, Then how come only a few can see the vid?I'd rather just have things work( even if it takes two miliseconds longer!)
Bradley G
The original question was posed on rendering video from, let's say, a digital video camera. Take a 3 or 4 gb (gb, not mb) file and 'producing' down to a compressed mpeg. It's you dont have a powerhorse of a machine it can take forever to accomplish. Video rendering is especially RAM hungry.

We run into the same thing when using third party PhotoShop filters on a file. (the 'fillter' is the program that takes an image and 'supercharges' it. See my Slowpoke graphic below... I made that from plain black type and a few photoshop filters in 5 minutes. I got a filter just to make 'flames' pour out of type). Without a lot of RAM or a fast processor, it takes 5 or 10 minutes each time I apply a filter. With a good machine, I can render a filter in about 12 seconds.

of course if all i needed a computer for was to write letters to the editor of my local newspaper every time they ran a story about aliens landing in my neighborhood, or to make grocery lists, or to order stuff from Toyrus.com.... all this computing power would be a waste.

[MikesMerc]

Good answer slowpoke!

If I wasn't an avid gamer and video editor I wouldn't have the systems I do. But I enjoy top of the line gaming and multimedia performance, so I get the best stuff I can afford. Of course I like to "hot rod' my PC just like I do my MM. We certainly don't need superchargers to get the groceries...but it sure makes it fun:D

BTW, that video file is stored on our MCM server, not my home computer. You just need a dvd decoder to play it. The file is fine.

[Bradley G]

After reading and understanding about one tenth of what(computer jargon) you guys say.I am not slamming the lattest equipt or underminding your hobby.I installed windows media player 10 and that was supposed to support the code something or other?All I know if it does not have explicit instructions in the window I am viewing on what to do "NEXT" I am so Frustrated:mad2: I Just Want to see Tire shreadding- Billowing Smoke & 281 cubes of supercharged Terror! I don't think it's unreasonable:baby:

Bradley G

[Slowpoke]

After reading and understanding about one tenth of what(computer jargon) you guys say.I am not slamming the lattest equipt or underminding your hobby.I installed windows media player 10 and that was supposed to support the code something or other?All I know if it does not have explicit instructions in the window I am viewing on what to do "NEXT" I am so Frustrated:mad2: I Just Want to see Tire shreadding- Billowing Smoke & 281 cubes of supercharged Terror! I don't think it's unreasonable:baby:

Bradley G

Perhaps that file can be converted into something you can see.....

Hey, and here is another Slowpoke logo... took me all of 4 minutes to make!

[Bradley G]

I do have it saved it to my computer I try to play it with one of the several programs that are supposed to be able to read /decode It says that I don't have codec in windows media player.If you told me step by step what to do then I may have a chance.

Bradley G


Perhaps that file can be converted into something you can see.....

Hey, and here is another Slowpoke logo... took me all of 4 minutes to make!

[BillyGman]

Okay Brad, I believe that you're talking about the burnout video that I sent you which is on CD. I believe that I've also sent you a copy on DVD also, so I'm surprised if you tried to play it on a regualr home DVD player and it wouldn't read it. All I can tell you is, that the file is an MPEG-2 and it's been rendered in SVCD format which might be why you and others are having problems playing the discs I've been burning. My PC as well as Marty's PC played it just fine, as did a co-worker of mine too. But what all three of our PC systems have in common is that they all have a DVD/CD combination drive that came with them.


Therefore, I believe the common denominator here is that we all have the software on our hard drives to play video. More specifically video that's rendered in the SVCD format. Whereas most PC's to my knowledge that have only come with a standard CD only player come with software that's only good for playing CD's that are rendered in VCD format.

[the_pack_rat]

I'm glad this subject came up.

I've been wanting to do something different for a PC myself ... & I'm NOT wanting to purchase another "pre-fab" thing thru Gateway - Dell - HP etc etc.

Presently I'm running a Gateway bought new in Feb 01.

Basic specs :

Performance 1500
Intel 1.5GHz P4
512MB RDRAM PC800(originally 256MB - I upgraded)
32MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce2 Pro-G Graphics Accelerator
SoundBlaster Live w/Digital Audio Output & Subwoofer
Western Digital 120 GB Ultra/ATA100 7200 RPM Hard Drive(originally 60GB - I upgraded).
16X/40X DVD ROM Drive
Recordable/Rewriteable CD ROM drive(unknown speed ?).
Floppy Drive
Zip Drive

My biggest pet peeves with this setup are :

Photo editing can sometimes get sluggish if multi-tasking.
Poor design of the mid-tower case.
Overall noise of the PC in general.

I was told by some local computer guy that often times many of these types of systems are NOT that great for upgrading. I know the power supply on this thing is an ODD one for one. I was also told the motherboard may NOT work with an aftermarket case ... w/o some wiring mods. He gave me the impression it was best to start from scratch ... which I'd imagine it is.

Guess I'm in the market for some recommendations myself.

About the ONLY things I've really researched at all in this project ... that I might like to go with are :

Antec P160 or SLK3700-BQE case.
Seasonic - Enermax - Zalman or Antec 400W+ power supply.
Nexus fan

NOTE - these couple of things above are based on a few things(reviews & such) I've read ON-line. These (2) Antec cases are supposed to be well made & good for keeping things QUIET. The power supplies & fans are supposed to be of decent quality & quiet as well(again from what I read).

I'm certainly open to other input & recommendations.

[Slowpoke]

You can certainly save $ by building it from scratch and there is no shortage of people willing to tell you how to do it... HOWEVER, the amount of time and frustration you will encounter is not worth the money you save. I have been using PC's since 1984 and built dozens of systems from scratch. The first two were fun, after that it became a chore with so many variables it just became idiotic to continue in that vain.

The only thing we build ourselves is our rackmounted servers which do not contain video or audio; we build them ourselves because we can get exactly what we need depending on the need of the particular server (storage, processing, or intenet device). We use these servers every day and use only top quality components to ensure they run smoothly. Servers are a unique breed, they operate under strain most of the day; at night they continue to operate backing each other up and acting as a repository of data for several PCs' ghosted images.


I'm glad this subject came up.

I've been wanting to do something different for a PC myself ... & I'm NOT wanting to purchase another "pre-fab" thing thru Gateway - Dell - HP etc etc.

Presently I'm running a Gateway bought new in Feb 01.

Basic specs :

Performance 1500
Intel 1.5GHz P4
512MB RDRAM PC800(originally 256MB - I upgraded)
32MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce2 Pro-G Graphics Accelerator
SoundBlaster Live w/Digital Audio Output & Subwoofer
Western Digital 120 GB Ultra/ATA100 7200 RPM Hard Drive(originally 60GB - I upgraded).
16X/40X DVD ROM Drive
Recordable/Rewriteable CD ROM drive(unknown speed ?).
Floppy Drive
Zip Drive

My biggest pet peeves with this setup are :

Photo editing can sometimes get sluggish if multi-tasking.
Poor design of the mid-tower case.
Overall noise of the PC in general.

I was told by some local computer guy that often times many of these types of systems are NOT that great for upgrading. I know the power supply on this thing is an ODD one for one. I was also told the motherboard may NOT work with an aftermarket case ... w/o some wiring mods. He gave me the impression it was best to start from scratch ... which I'd imagine it is.

Guess I'm in the market for some recommendations myself.

About the ONLY things I've really researched at all in this project ... that I might like to go with are :

Antec P160 or SLK3700-BQE case.
Seasonic - Enermax - Zalman or Antec 400W+ power supply.
Nexus fan

NOTE - these couple of things above are based on a few things(reviews & such) I've read ON-line. These (2) Antec cases are supposed to be well made & good for keeping things QUIET. The power supplies & fans are supposed to be of decent quality & quiet as well(again from what I read).

I'm certainly open to other input & recommendations.

[valkyrie]

Alienware machines are definitely high end.

I've got 1 gig of RAM and a 256mb ATI Radeon 9600 Pro in my Dell 8300.

It'll get me along for the next year or so max....after that....I'll be buying an Alienware.


My next computer will have at least 2gb of RAM and several of the specs that Mike talked about.

Looking forward to Battlefield 2 :D


Oh yeah...my desktop will never have less than a 20" screen either. I'm running a 21" CRT monitor but the next one will have a 20" LCD flatscreen.

I have a NEC 20" LCD Screen.

[ckadiddle]

Hey, when you get that new machine, how about donating the "old" one to me ??? ;)

[TechHeavy]

I do have it saved it to my computer I try to play it with one of the several programs that are supposed to be able to read /decode It says that I don't have codec in windows media player.If you told me step by step what to do then I may have a chance.

Bradley G
Bradley, download this free player, (21-day trial) to watch the video: http://www.download.com/Elecard-MPEG-Player/3000-2139_4-10156005.html?tag=lst-0-1

[Mike Poore]

Do I hot rod PC's? Here is a pic of my gaming machine:.

Holy antifreeze Batman! I thought, at first blush, Mike was kidding about that "thing". It's awsome! :bows:

[ap2003]

My personal system:
AMD Opteron 248 (Dual)
MSI Neo 940 mobo
2 x 1g Corsair XMS 3200
ATI Radeon 9700
Sound Card... cheapest thing I could find (not a priority for me)
2 x 80g Seagate SATA - 10k spin - RAID 0
2 x 200 Seagate pata - 8k spin - mass storage
ALl wrapped in a non-descript Antec case with variable fans

Here is the next upgrade...:burnout: AMD (and yes, now Intel, too) is working towards "Dual Core" CPUs for the consumer/soho use. Two CPU dies are put on a single substrate. A single processor system upgrade with one of these, would then operate as a dual. So, the above system, when upgrades will operate as a 4-processor system.

At the office, I also have an HP DL-585 with 4 processors and 32 GB of RAM... just waiting for the the dual core upgrade. (and probably extra 32 GB of RAM while I am at it... of course, the company pays for these things.)


Side Note: From personal testing with multiprocessor enabled applications... Intel processors scale about 30% to 45% with the every doubling of processor cores ... AMDs... scale at somewhere between 80% to 92%. This is a huge AMD advantage.... Let me know if you really want to know the specific difference between the two architectures...and how the architectural difference of the chip building blocks can works so differently between Intel and AMD.