Chipped out.....!

[CRUZTAKER]

Well, I did it. I called Dennis today and ordered stuuuuuff. :banana:

I am so exited. Too bad I can't catch traction in this neck of the woods for another month or so.....
You guys are right. The price is reasonable. His drive shaft is more than I can spend right now. Anyone got a cheaper solution?

Has anyone discussed this scenario:
Fact of life that eventually someone with this chip will go to the dealer for general maintenance and a tech will inadvertantly use his diagnostic machine and say,...reboot the system or try to do a software upgrade for whatever reason WITHOUT your knowledge.:( :bigcry:

I asked Dennis and he wasn't sure. He said he would get back to me. But this man sounds like he is at his wits end busy,(3 PEOPLE ON HOLD, TWO IN OFFICE, AND SILLY ME ON THE PHONE), he didn't even remember he told me to call him. Poor guy, he needs some staff, and some time off in the caribbean. :coolman:

[tym2fly]

I spoke with Kenny Brown Performance when I bought my Marauder, they suggested using the police driveshaft. It is a good swap and I found prices of $215 to $280. Hope this works for you.

[CRUZTAKER]

EXCELLANT. I assume from a Crown Vic, but you know the dealer is gonna ask "what year?" I'll need specifics if anyone has gone this route.
:confused:

I read Logan's instructions for chip installation. It seems straight forward and right up up my alley. I do similar work daily. He just did not show old chip removal, or is the new one just an "add on"?

Also, he did not mention utilizing a wrist grounging strap. VERY important in my line of work as a DSLAM router card costs nearly $10,000. ESD may not destroy a chip right away, but down the road degrade the internals to possible failure. The human body can conduct 50,000 volts in a snap, and you never even know it. :(

[WolfeBros]

Cruz,
The new chip is on a board mounted to an edge connector.
The computer has edge connector pins on it that is not used in normal use. You knock out part of a perforated section of the computer cover, clean the conformal coating off the edge connector pins on the PCB and the new chip and socket just pushes on. Once installed back in the car you can reach up and pull the chip off within seconds if you have to. If you do this type of work for a living ......this will be a piece of cake for you. The instructions are very good about connector bolts, mounting, ect... of module.

And your right about ESD. If you have a wrist strap use it.
By the way.......you will love what this chip does for the car !! :up:

[CRUZTAKER]

OK, I get it, pull the chip before routine service. How does the car act with no chip, but the new plugs and thermostat?

[martyo]

How (and where) does the switch get installed? And, when it is swicthed off is the ECM blind to the chip completely?

Sarge: A few of your well thouight words here would be greatly appreciated......

[vaderv]

A ground strap is a waste of time in an ungrouded dc system... Tires....

[vaderv]

grounded...sorry

[WolfeBros]

We are talking about a ground strap while you have your computer ripped apart. I did the chip install on my workbench and yes it can make a difference. The ground strap in question actually is for grounding you and preventing static buildup when you are working on the computer. It is usually a wrist strap but there are mats and floor tiles as well that can be grounded. When that computer case is off and that board is sitting there all my its lonesome not hooked to anything or grounded at all a static discharge off your clothing, or rug, workbench or whatever can ruin your whole day (not to mention your bank account) if it punches a hole in the substrate of one of the integrated circuits on that computer. Doing that mod in the cold dry winter air adds to the risk.

You are right about the car body itself......it can not go to earth ground while resting on 4 rubber tires.

Cruz and StanleyK, those are both good questions for Dennis R.
I am not sure they have been answered.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by stanleyk
How (and where) does the switch get installed? And, when it is swicthed off is the ECM blind to the chip completely?

Sarge: A few of your well thouight words here would be greatly appreciated......


First of all an ESD = Electro Static Discharge setup is not required, but if you want to go ahead, second the switch is not used since your chip has only one file on it, I can't buy the chip with out the switch so its yours, the switch is for two programs, it can shut the chip off and allow you to go to the stock program but, don't do this if the car has had a gear change, if you want to use the switch just plug it in to the chip and secure the cable to the ECM by tape, now the switch has a machined groove in one side of the threaded boss where the nut is so you can drill a hole to attach it some where that machined grove is side 2 the middle is side 1 the opposite is stock ECM, to put the car in stock ECM the key has to be off, then flip the switch to the opposite position away from that machined grove I will post a picture, now to go back to the performance side again you have to key off and place the switch in the middle position or towards the grove since you only have one program it makes no difference if you are in side 1 or side 2. I just wanted to add that if this is just to confusing I sell a LED switch for 25.00 more so you have a visual indication of what side you are in Green is side 1 red is side 2, there is picture of it on my web site.


http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1045321960-DELTASWITCH.JPG

[SergntMac]

CRUZ (and others, if it applies)

I have the Reinhart chip with a switch. I like being able to cut off the extra power and features when the car is out of my hands. Switch off, the car is in normal ECM mode, and tolerant of lower octane fuels if traveling where 93 is not available. However, with plugs and stat in place, you do not want to drive chip off for any extended period of time, (like more than a tankful of gas). That may cause long term detonation damage because the car is running cooler than normal ECM programs call for. You won't notice the problem, the ECM will detune around detonation, but long term damage may result from that.

I've been assured by my dealer that the chip's presence is transparent to Dealer diagnostics. The wrench may notice that the car runs better than most MMs on a test drive, but unless he crawls under the dash, he can't tell a chip is present. Any program changes to the ECM that are performed "automatically" during a routine visit should not disrupt the chip, nor be corrupted by the chip, because the wrench will have to remove the chip to complete the download. He is not obliged to restore the chip after download, just return it to you.

Now, I know I'm going to get flamed on this, so, go for it, I'm ready.

Why are you buying a drive shaft? Not all MMs show drive shaft vibration issues once the speed limiter is released by the chip. Some have, others not, I didn't. My car runs as smooth as silk through 120 MPH, which is 6000 drive shaft RPMs in 3rd gear (OD off) with 4:10s. Since the motor's powerband ends at 5750 RPM, what's the need to push the shaft this hard?

Vibration isn't a problem for me, but has been noticed by others. I'd say that if you're not getting any vibration, you're okay, unless you spend a lot to time driving over 120 MPH in 3rd gear and want the emotional security of believing you have fixed a problem. Do your chip and gear, and get a dyno test, or, just go for a drive somewhere safe. One drive will tell you, if you see vibration in your mirrors, or feel it through the steering wheel, foot pedals, or your butt-o-meter, then I suggest the Reinhart DynaTech shaft over the FMC PI shaft.

Reinhart's shaft is a kit, it comes with balanced flanges and DANA U-joints, all matched, balanced and certified through 6000 RPM. That's stuff you don't get with the PI shaft, so I'd say if the PI shaft is half the price, remember it's only half the fix. Yes, Reinhart's kit is pricey over the PI fix, but if you are going to continue adding power to your car, it's the better long term solution. The PI shaft has it's limits too, and if down the road, you supercharge or upgrade to a Stallion torque converter, your shaft will be enduring double the power it was designed to endure, and the PI shaft was not designed for that either.

The PI shaft was not designed for racing or hard power transfers, it is simply a fix for problems that surfaced with the stock CV/CVPI shafts when FMC offered higher gear ratios on PIs. Our MMs come with a shaft that is designed for use with 3:55 gears, and it does that well. But, once you gear up, a change may (I repeat MAY) be necessary. If you're going to buy a drive shaft now, buy it when you need it, buy the right drive shaft, and buy it once.

That's my .50c...

[CRUZTAKER]

Damn Sarge, talk about a plethora of information.

You answered it all, and I see no need for a burn. Good deal, did not want to spend the dough on a driveshaft for the few times I expect to hammer the the car that hard. I will still do the vibration test when the weather clears.

It is also nice to know that the techs can't screw up my chip by accident.
I like the switch idea, and aparently it comes with the chip. Did Logan post a review for switch installation? I did not see it in his chip installation review.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by CRUZTAKER
Damn Sarge, talk about a plethora of information.

I like the switch idea, and aparently it comes with the chip. Did Logan post a review for switch installation? I did not see it in his chip installation review.

A "how to" for the switch install is a bit of overkill, it's a standard micro toggle switch, just needs a tiny hole to nest. The cable is about a foot long, park the switch anywhere you want, and happy motoring.

[mensrea]

Well for what it is worth... I have the Police Shaft and I have over 400 rear wheel horse power... I know other supercharged Marauders and Crown Vics out there running on the PI shaft... if money is no concern, buy the Dennis shaft... if you're saving to buy the Torque Converter :) buy the PI shaft. Just my two cents worth, but rest assured that with my HP rating and $$$$ expense, I researched it. See pics below.... Even if you don't plan on running high speeds, I would recommend buying a shaft, whether Dennis or PI...

Now as far as vibration in the driveline.... I experienced horrendous vibration without the supercharger, and wanted to get rid of it pronto. The risk you run is that the shaft can vibrate so much that it blows the seal on the tail shaft housing and then you have to replace the housing as well as the shaft. I wouldn't risk it. Pics of blown seal below.


Pic of blown tail shaft seal due to shaft walking (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/details.php?image_id=118)

[Dennis Reinhart]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mensrea
[B]Well for what it is worth... I have the Police Shaft and I have over 400 rear wheel horse power... Dennis doesn't make the shaft, just sells it. The shaft is a DynoTech Driveshaft. The DynoTech is a great shaft, but it is pricey.

But hey, plenty of other experts on here with opinions...




First of all, thank you for letting every one know where I get the shafts from, but since they have the Dynotech label on them when they are sent out, almost every one knows any way, I in no way said they were my shaft.

I told Logan I was using this company, and Logan recieved the first shaft from them, he was my test car, I have Dynotech make these shafts, since I have an account with them and they are making shafts for my company for five other cars, and I am sold on there products.

I sent Dynotech a Marauder shaft and had them make it just like I did, the Lincoln Mark 8 shaft, so I was the originator for this and I did this for the club, I was the one who did this, not Dynotech, yes they make the shaft for my company, I don't really think its that expensive. Considering pricing I have seen for what other companies are offering upgrades for the Marauder.

I make very little off the shaft if I can get 10 members at a time I can get a group buy, so the cost will go down, and it is a better shaft than the stock Ford PI shaft.

But again I have never said this was a necessity, some members have never had a horrendous vibration even after gear change, so to each his own. Either way I am just here to help if I can.

[WolfeBros]

and Dennis.......I know I speak for everyone here........we are glad that you are there for us. :bows:

[mensrea]

Wow.....

[RF Overlord]

I second that, or third it, or whatever...Dennis, I don't think anyone meant to say that you were the cause of the shaft being costly, and I'm also sure the shaft is worth every penny if you need it. I still don't see why any civilian NEEDS to drive at speeds that require a drivshaft like that, but that's a different thread...

BTW, if anyone wants to see REALLY expensive stuff, www.seanhylandmotorsport.com will induce immediate heart failure... no offence intended, and yes, I know he's a sponsor, and yes, I'm sure the parts are extremely well made and durable, but still...they're way out of my league...

[Logan]

I noticed a significant driveline vibration after installing the Dynotech shaft Dennis sent me. To each his own.

Having not tried a PI shaft, I couldn't commetn either way. To each his own.

[SergntMac]

I knew I was going to get flamed...And I have a much better picture of things now.

My post was for clarification and advice to a newbie. I believe I was helpful to him, perhaps others too, with a straight up discussion of the facts. Bottom line is that there is no sense in replacing anything that is not broken. Test first.

I did not misrepresent Dennis Reinhart, or his DynoTech drive shaft. I mentioned the manfacturer from the beginning, and suggested Reinhart as the best source, because I know, he knows, what we need. Fortunately, Dennis himself has stepped in to further clarifiy who produces the shaft and who's design it is. I call it pricey because it's double the cost of other suggested fixes. But, it's pricey without complaint because it's tested and certified through 6000RPM. The PI shaft is not, and you could easily NOT repair a vibration issue when the cause is other driveline parts, like flange and u-joints. The Dynotech shaft will handle everything the 4.6L can throw at it, supercharged or not, and it is surely worth every penny. I'm pleased to spend my money with Reinhart, because he's cut all the corners off this (and other) upgrades to the MM.

I resent an intentional dissent, this is wasted time over bent feelings, that were not present when the thread began. Yes, I know what they say about opinions, and you are just another opinion. I hope not to see much more of this again.

Again, my best advice is my first advice, test what you have before spending any money, then spend your money where you feel it is best spent. IMHO.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I agree with you about, the shaft so again, you are the man and I look forward to reading your posts. And I cant wait till next month to get started on a afordable SC kit for the club, my plans are cold air kit for the N/A car and shortie headers, cat back and good Mufflars, thanks every one for your support.

[Billatpro]

Well, I guess that settles that.

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by SergntMac

My post was for clarification and advice to a newbie. I believe I was helpful to him, perhaps others too

I AM THE NEWBIE....:alone:

I sure didn't want to cause trouble either. Financially I am not as well off as many of the members on this site. I was just looking for an alternate way out that I could justify the expenditure. If I could afford it, I would buy the best.

Afterall, I am buying the best, and I am tickled at the cost effectiveness of Dennis' chip upgrade package.

Dennis: I was so excited on friday when I ordered that I failed to tell you my programming needs. I am not embarrased....this is Barry Glassner in Broadview Hts. Ohio. I will not be changing gears, and likely not the driveshaft . Please program me appropriately. There, I just saved a long distance call to Fla.

Dennis, I drive thru Waldo on the way to mom's house. What are the odds I get nailed?! ISJ

THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU

[WolfeBros]

Geez..... I was thinking switches and chips when I made my comment.
I have no experience on the driveshaft. Looking back on this thread it looks like I threw the Sarge under the bus which was not my intention.
For that I apologize to my friend. His comments as always were right on. In my view anyway. Sorry Sarge, my words, intentions and timing of the post all conflicted with me getting my morning coffee. I'll be more careful in the future. As far as Dennis......I meant to say we are all glad we have a vendor like him around to support our efforts. The fact that he is here gives us more than one choice when we chose to upgrade our cars. And having more choices benefits us all. Again sorry for the misunderstanding.

[SergntMac]

No sweat, Bud, it wasn't you, and I agree with you as well. Dennis is the guy who's running a business and supporting his family on his word, that's good enough for me.

[martyo]

I spoke to Dennis personally in the middle of all this. His advice is sound. His parts are sound. His views are welcomed.

[mensrea]

I think people here should spend some more time on other boards, a vocal dissent is often the best way to discuss change. Check out the other sites if you want to see really heated discussion... this is tame.

remember people are passionate about THEIR cars and as a result opinions will vary.

[WolfeBros]

Your right Mensrea.....we are tame compared to other boards I have seen. I hope that is because that although we do have differing opinions from time to time, our mutual like and respect for one another keeps this board from becoming a circus. Cars invoke passions like everything else. We get up in one anothers face on occasion. The maturity level here seems to keep things from getting out of hand. Or so it seems.
IMHO and I could be wrong. :D

[nomad]

My .02. As far as the differing opinions of members and the"tameness" of most responses. IMHO classy cars beget classy people.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by mensrea
I think people here should spend some more time on other boards, a vocal dissent is often the best way to discuss change. Check out the other sites if you want to see really heated discussion... this is tame.

remember people are passionate about THEIR cars and as a result opinions will vary.



Well, Menesara I will disagree with you there about heated discussions, there is no need for a heated discussion, that only happens when ignorant people are faced with facts and logic and they are embarrassed with and faced with there lack of knowledge with the subject matter at hand, so then they try and figure out some way to distract from the topic at hand, so far I have not seen that many heated topics here and I am very glad of that.

I have far more experience than you when it comes to posting or frequenting other car sites, I post on over 10 sites, just to mention a few are the Corral and Stang. Net Crown Vic. Net, TCCOA I have an impeccable reputation there, not as a subject matter expert, but as someone who is honest and upfront and wants to help.

You see I never have at one time prefaced to be an expert or know all the answers. I don't, but the thing of it is, I don't bull ****, if I don't have the answer I will tell you that, and at the same time I will tell you I will get you a correct answer, so again there are no need for flame wars or heated discussion, normally common sense and professionalism prevails. when it doesn't the moderators step in and lock the thread or delete posts. Again this is very good site I enjoy being a part of it, I am here to learn as well as help.

[Beadhead]

My $.02. What I appreeciate about this board is that the members can discuss and disagree, offer differing viewpoints, and still act like gentlemen. Dennis is correct when he implies that other boards could take a lesson from this one (AND its moderators!)

P.S.: As a philosopher (maybe Joubert?) once said, "Reason before passion".

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by mensrea
I think people here should spend some more time on other boards, a vocal dissent is often the best way to discuss change. Check out the other sites if you want to see really heated discussion... this is tame.

remember people are passionate about THEIR cars and as a result opinions will vary.


I've been reading other boards for years, automotive related and not. I agree that there is a pattern of "normal" behavior in many boards that's better understood as "typical." Normal occurs when it happens, and it goes unchecked. Normal isn't better, or correct, it's just typical.

I do not subscribe to those other boards, because they spend more time pitching s**t at each other, than they spend on the topics. Nothing really gets agreed upon, not much knowledge is shared, no teaching, no learning, very little honest laughter at really funny stuff, just mean taunts for each other.

I subscribe here and call it my home, because of the quality of friends, and the quality of knowledge shared, the depth of laughter, and the depth of personal pride. We are not normal, or, typical, we are better than them, and I'm proud of that.

Sharing an opinion usually leads to a disscussion of fact. Exchanging those facts is the purpose of a logical argument, and yes, it can be heated at times. When lessons are taught and learned, we all benefit, but we must never lose respect for the individual or his opinion. We are above normal people here, with above normal automobiles. Rightfully so, we hold above normal opinions, and with above normal passion. Let's keep this board moving ahead, set a new standard among our counterparts. Let's show above normal respect for each other, and ourselves.

'nuff said on the topic, yes?

[Logan]

Exactly. 'nuff said and this thread went so far off topic It'd be a five day trip by the Concord to get it back...

So on that note... Feel free to open a new thread if any wishes to continue praising the site. Honest, I don't mind. :D