More on the Gas Tank issue

[RCSignals]

Blue Oval News, or specifically "the detroit News" is looking for feedback

Read here (http://warnerrobert.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000538#000014)


The Detroit News is looking for Crown Victoria, Town Car or Grand Marquis owners who have contacted their Ford dealer about having the fuel tank shield kit installed. Those who oppose fuel tank shields are also encouraged to respond. Please write to the news at crownvic@blueovalnews.com

[LincMercLover]

Someone needs to show them pics of the wrecked MM...

It's all in the tips baby! :D :up:

[jefferson-mo]

Did anyone else see on the news last week.....maybe Wed or Thurs.....
I think it was in Chicago..........
The CV cop that got hit on the freeway by the Explorer?
Police car stopped on the freeway(helpin' someone)+ice+speeding(not payin' attention)Explorer+bus in the next lane=high speed collision

They show'd 'em gettin' the cop out of the car (I guess he was in it) and he looked hurt but no fire.............

I noticed the media didn't say anything about a CV getting hit................

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by jefferson-mo
Did anyone else see on the news last week.....maybe Wed or Thurs.....
I think it was in Chicago. The CV cop that got hit on the freeway by the Explorer? Police car stopped on the freeway(helpin' someone)+ice+speeding(not payin' attention)Explorer+bus in the next lane=high speed collision. They show'd 'em gettin' the cop out of the car (I guess he was in it) and he looked hurt but no fire. I noticed the media didn't say anything about a CV getting hit.

I captured this crash from TV news that morning, and hard copy is in transit to Logan and GJA, for import to us here, however that works out. My capture turned out to be 112MB, and not suitable for up or down load via this site, but hopefully, they can work some magic on that. Hold your thoughts, guys, until you watch this crash first hand, you'll be surprised at the outcome. Meanwhile, no serious injury, no fire.

The Panther platform did it's job.

[RF Overlord]

There was quite a bit of activity on CVN about this issue. For the lousy $160 or so the kit costs, it seems like it would be a good thing...I don't know why anyone would be against it, it's got to be better than doing nothing...

[LincMercLover]

I still say it was a short period of mis-understanding of how to mount extra PI equipment in the rear by the departments themselves.

But, the media is slanted. A CV making it out without a firie ending and an uninjured LEO just doesn't sell...

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
I still say it was a short period of mis-understanding of how to mount extra PI equipment in the rear by the departments themselves. But, the media is slanted. A CV making it out without a firie ending and an uninjured LEO just doesn't sell...

I couldn't agree with you more, LML.

[RCSignals]

Still more. they are moving the issue now from Police vehicles to civilian versions of the Panther line.
I believe there is a definite anti Ford Bias agenda behind it all rather one of genuine concern for safety

http://warnerrobert.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000553#000003

http://warnerrobert.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f =10;t=001471

[SergntMac]

Ouch...

This is really getting out of hand...Anyone agree?

[RCSignals]

Well I agree it's out of hand. "Civilians" are getting their info from obviously Biased sites such as that "Center for vehicle Safety". People are avoiding and ignoring the findings of the NHTSB

[RCSignals]

Here is the link to the Detroit News article

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0302/21/a01-91129.htm

[cyclone03]

I wonder how much money Firestone has earmarked for these study's?

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by SergntMac
I captured this crash from TV news that morning, and hard copy is in transit to Logan and GJA, for import to us here, however that works out. My capture turned out to be 112MB, and not suitable for up or down load via this site, but hopefully, they can work some magic on that. Hold your thoughts, guys, until you watch this crash first hand, you'll be surprised at the outcome. Meanwhile, no serious injury, no fire.

The Panther platform did it's job.

You guys get my US mail yet?

Any chance it could be shared here?

[gja]

Video is encoded!!!!
It is in the Windows Media format and is of EXCELLENT quality.
I have a large version @ 13 meg. If you want it PM me.
I also have a small Real media version @ under 1 meg in the Gallery under Other Panther Platform cars.

[Paul T. Casey]

solution is quite simple, DON'T GET REARENDED BY SUV'S DOING 75+ MPH. With MM horsepower and speed this shouldn't be too tough. Depress right foot to floorboard and watch vehicle in mirror get small

[LincMercLover]

Originally posted by gja
Video is encoded!!!!
It is in the Windows Media format and is of EXCELLENT quality.
I have a large version @ 13 meg. If you want it PM me.
I also have a small Real media version @ under 1 meg in the Gallery under Other Panther Platform cars.

Umm... where?

If you can, e-mail it to me at my79towncoupe@aol.com.

[LincMercLover]

Hmm... check this out.

Crown Vic PI Video By Ford (http://www.cvpi.com/safety_video.htm)

Pretty much sums it up.

[RCSignals]

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/newsarticle.asp?guid={5093F60E-BBAC-4243-907C-671E7A745B60}&siteid=mktw&dist=nbs


Ford Admits That Crown Vic Failed Crash Test; Dallas Official Questions Why Ford Can Provide Safer Technology to Civilian 'Protection' Car, but Not To Police
2/28/2003 8:07:00 PM









DALLAS, Feb 28, 2003 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- The following press release is being issued by the Dallas City Attorney's Office:

Ford Motor Company officials have admitted in sworn testimony that a Crown Victoria police car equipped with new fuel tank safety shields actually flunked its own crash test.

This disclosure and others were made today by Dallas City Attorney Madeleine Johnson, who is suing Ford in an attempt to discover whether Ford's popular police cruiser is safe. Fourteen law enforcement officers have died in Crown Victoria fuel-fed fires after being rear-ended at high speeds.

Ford announced on September 27 that it would install fuel tank shields on some 350,000 Crown Victoria police cars, touting a crash test that it claimed showed the shields to be effective at speeds of up to 75 miles per hour. A Ford official acknowledged in a deposition taken last month, however, that the crash-tested tank actually leaked more than 40 ounces of a fuel substitute known as Stoddard. Federal standards limit fuel tank leaks in crash tests to no more than one ounce.

"Instead of the success that Ford claimed, the crash test was an abject failure and seriously calls into question Ford's claims that the new fuel tank shields are enough to solve Crown Vic fuel tank safety problems," Johnson said.

Johnson emphasized that even small fuel tank punctures can touch off fiery explosions since the fuel is expelled under pressure in the form of an aerosol-like mist and quickly forms a vapor cloud that engulfs the vehicle.

"We are all too familiar with this kind of tragedy -- we recently lost a member of our own family this way," Johnson said, referring to the death of Dallas Police Officer Patrick Metzler on October 23 after his cruiser exploded when it was rear-ended.

Dallas patrol cars have been equipped with the new shields, which obviously offer some protection from fuel tank puncture, Johnson noted. "But I will continue to press for answers from Ford officials about why they persisted with the shield 'fix' in light of the shield's failure to withstand impacts at high speeds, as well as why they have rejected other technologies offering greater protection," Johnson said.

For example, Johnson noted, Ford has announced that it will begin production soon of a $140,000 Lincoln Town Car with a fuel tank that self- seals if punctured. The new Lincoln "Ballistic Protection Series" is designed to resist high-powered rifles and offer limited bomb-blast protection. It has been in development for about two years, according to Ford.

This same technology was presented to a Ford technical task force last summer as a possible guard against Crown Victoria police car fuel tank punctures. It was rejected as not being production-ready, according to Ford do***ents and testimony.

"If this technology is now available -- and, clearly, it has been for some time -- why hasn't Ford offered this protection to police officers?" said Johnson. "As the leader in the police vehicle market, Ford has a big responsibility to say to law enforcement 'Your cars are as safe -- or safer -- than any other vehicle we make.'"

Johnson also raised concerns about Ford's promise of special trunk packs for police vehicles to guard against heavy objects that might be propelled through the trunk and into the fuel tank in a rear-end collision. Johnson said Ford announced just today that it will produce only 12,500 of the safety packs every year, although there are about 300,000 affected vehicles on the road. Meanwhile, there still is no delivery date for the packs, which were promised by the end of 2002, she noted.

Until the packs become available, Johnson advised law enforcement agencies to remove hard objects or long rigid objects, such as universal four-armed lug wrenches, from their trunks. Only last month, a Texas Department of Public Safety vehicle operating in Bee County suffered a tank puncture when the corner of a videotape mounting bracket punctured the tank.

"It is shocking to learn that the tank, as designed, can be punctured by ordinary radios and electronic equipment," Johnson said. "Currently, we are trying to find out whether the trunk pack will accommodate this necessary police equipment."

The deaths of Officer Robert Smith of Florida in 1997, Officer Hung Le of Louisiana in 1998, and Officer Skip Fink of Arizona in 2000 all involved Crown Victoria fuel tanks that exploded after being punctured by items in the vehicles' trunks.

Johnson said depositions also revealed that the trunk packs, which include a Kevlar sheet, will cost $210 each -- four times Ford's original estimate. Ford has indicated that it does not intend to pay for the trunk packs, but that law enforcement agencies must cover expense, instead.

"Ford is obligated to provide trunk safety kits to police agencies free of charge, and we will continue to press Ford on this issue," Johnson said.

Ford has claimed repeatedly that the technology does not exist to protect fuel tanks from punctures or leaks in high-speed, rear end crashes. Johnson said that depositions have confirmed that Ford has refused consistently to adopt fuel tank safety technology that is readily available from numerous sources. The Crown Victoria, which was manufactured 24 years ago, has the oldest unchanged design of any car on the market. The longer a car is marketed without a design change, the more profitable it is for the manufacturer.

Johnson said that depositions also reveal a startling lack of action on Ford's part to design a "fix" for the fuel tank problems that addresses the types of fuel tank damage that have led to fires and deaths.

"If I sound frustrated with Ford, it's because I am," said Johnson. "They say one thing in public and another in sworn testimony. We've been at this for months, and we aren't at all sure that our officers are any safer."

The City of Dallas and others suing Ford over the Crown Victoria police cars are gathering sworn testimony from Ford officials as part of a consolidated discovery process before a federal judge in Cleveland. Johnson filed suit against Ford seeking Crown Victoria safety information last December in the wake of Officer Metzler's death.

Contact: Mike Kelly, 512/327-6788
or David Shultz, Dallas City
Attorney's Office: 214/670-5723


SOURCE Dallas City Attorney's Office

Mike Kelly, +1-512-327-6788, for Dallas City Attorney's Office;
or David Shultz of Dallas City Attorney's Office, +1-214-670-5723



For me this article leaves many questions

What the article does not state is how many cars were tested, and what years of cars were tested. There are at least two different shield kits for years from 1992-2003

What speed were these shields tested at? It isn't clear if they were done at 75mph or the previous mentioned 50mph

If the cars passed the rear crash test at 50 mph without shields, why did the test fail with shields?

[jgc61sr2002]

RC - Excellent article. Ford should issue the Kevlar trunk packs to all PI's . It sounds like the are reuseable and can be transfered to new PI's by the individual Police Departments. The failing of the test is another reason that FMC should issue the gas tank protector to all CV,GM,and MM's. But it all comes down to bucks and FMC to admit they have a problem, which is highly unlikely. John:(

[SergntMac]

Forget it RC, it's over. Seems like Ms.Johnson is much like many of us here, grabbing at short term jollies, and not thinking of the long term goal. Maybe she bagged a jack-a-lope in the shoot-out, but she better get herself some first aid for that hole in her foot.

I think it grossly unfair for a prosecutor to publically comment on an investigation in progress. This is a discovery hearing, that which allows both the plaintiff and defendant particular rights in gathering evidence. Whether it be good or bad evidence, depends on who is asking the question. Generally, mums the word about these proceedings, because one never knows where the discovery will lead.

Ms.Johnson shouts "I got 'em," and in doing so, spoils her own (and FMCs) chances for a fair hearing in open court, with an open minded public. Ms.Johnson is an agent of the government who should not have any personal opinion or bias while conducting her investigation. Her outbursts over "who should pay" and for what, is short-sighted short-term gratification, and it's an insult to the American justice system. This is prosecutorial misconduct, due process is the new victim now, and if I were Ms. Johnson's superior, she would be up on charges herself.

Ms. Johnson got her moment in the sun, but as RC points out, it is premature to claim she found any smoking gun. Sadly,the damage is done, and FMC will pay for her opinion. No one reads this stuff very deeply, and even here, I am sure many of us will point a finger at FMC and say " got ya."

This is dirty politics by an agent of the state, and if Ms.Johnson is going to be allowed to play this way, why not just surround all FMC facilities with Army troops and shoot all employees on sight...works in South America, eh?

I think FMC, and the panther platform, is done. The trial is over, and the verdict is guilty by public (and tainted) opinion.

Thank you Ms. Johnson, I've always wanted an Edsel.

[RCSignals]

I agree with you completely Mac. Thae article story which was clearly released by her office, is written as if it were a trial, not a deposition.

[RCSignals]

I've looked through old links and articles I've saved. This new article states Ford previously stated these Shields were good up to 75mph rear impact
"touting a crash test that it claimed showed the shields to be effective at speeds of up to 75 miles per hour"

Can someone find that quote for me and post it?

I can't find a quote from Ford stating that. Just that these Shields were the first step in an ongoing process, and the special committee formed of Ford members, law enforcement members etc were still investigating solutions.

Also this article states "that the crash-tested tank actually leaked more than 40 ounces of a fuel substitute known as Stoddard. Federal standards limit fuel tank leaks in crash tests to no more than one ounce. "

My understanding is that there is no Federal standard for rear crash testing over 30 mph.
Therefore, the Federal standard would not apply in crash tests over that. If they now do, then Every vehicle manufactured and for sale in the US surely must be retested.

[gja]

=====WARNING, rant follows==========

This entire issue is utter nonsense !!! I wonder how many people actually can grasp the amount of energy released at an impact of a speeding vehicle. It is a truly mind-boggling figure. I do not believe that a vehicle could be specifically designed to withstand such an impact and have no incidence of fire/mass-dismemberment. If they DID make such a vehicle it will surely cost more than anyone would be willing to pay, and would have horrendous performance, or would go through gas like an Arabian army tank.

I TRULY feel for the LEOs' who have lost their lives. But the fact remains that stepping into harms way is a way of life they choose. And many would rather be dead than not be 'on the job'. If you can't understand that, no amount of explaining will ever clear it up for you. If you do understand, no explanation is needed.


All this so-called fact-finding is just so much witch-hunting. They are looking for someone to place blame, when it is simply the law of averages and the law of physics combining to produce and unfortunate outcome. This is LIFE...sometimes life is long, sometimes it is short.

Hey, I think I will sue the farmers and ranchers on behalf off all the obese folks, and while I am at it I will sue my employer for being a contributor to my high stress level and hypertension.

GOOD GRIEF and GOD !! I hope FoMoCo bats this silly rap and gets a precedence set so no further suits follow. It is folly to buy a car and expect it to absorb a crash like an M1A tank.

Go on, flame away........:flamer:

[RCSignals]

http://warnerrobert.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f =10;t=001511


In a shocking development, after an intensive scientific study, into the safety of the Crown Vic, the Federal Goverment admits that the Crown Vic PASSES all current and future planned goverment's safety standard for fuel tank integrity by a HUGE margin.

Not only does the CV pass the government's only standard of 30mph, it did so without any fuel leakage, eventhuogh the standard allows for some leakage.

-The amount of energy absorbed in the Feds 30mph standard is just over 100,000 ft-lbs of energy.

Furthermore, the Feds tested the CV at 50mph, way beyond their own standard, and guess what, it passed again with absolutely ZERO leakage, even though some leakage is allowed.

- the amount of energy absorbed in the 50mph test, which is not a Federal standard, and a test most manufactureres do not do, is about 250,000 ft-lbs of force. Two and Half times the Standard, and the CV passes with 0 leakage.

The Feds further tested the CV without the recent mods or beefed up frame at a speed of 72mph, a completely unheard of test standard, and found that the amount of fluid leaked over a 25 minute period was half of the CVs only peer vehicle, the Caprice.

- this test at 72mph represented an impact force of about 525,000 ft-lbs of force, or MORE THAN FIVE TIMES the standard.

Its important to note that these tests were conducted on 1996 CV vehicles without the recent fuel tank mods, or the new beefed up frame on the '03s.

Some of the real-life accidents that involved fatalities had impacts of up to 6,600,000 ft-lbs of force!! That is SIXTY SIX times (66x) the Federal standard!!!

The Fed's report also found that the CV has a fire fatality rate LOWER than the average of all other sedans and one that is comparable with its only peer vehicle, the Caprice.

While auto accident and fatalities are indeed tragic, they are also a fact of life. Scarce safety resources are better spent attacking real problems than chasing after imaginary defects that have been proven by independent research and testing NOT to exist. Making trial lawyers richer does not make my car any safer.

[RF Overlord]

As Speedy Gonzales used to say: "Holy Frijoles!"...

THAT should certainly get the "doom and gloom" people to STFU...

[jgc61sr2002]

The panther platform is the safest car on the road today and as stated before , the only one with a perimeter frame. The PI's are used and abused like no other vehicle and the CV which most Police Departments is the one that holds up the best. John

[SergntMac]

Great essay, RC, thank you. But, without an author to credit the test results or commentary to, it's as worthless as most of the inflamatory stuff published to date. Jeeze, if only the NHTSB would come out and say this, eh?

Well, let's keep hoping...

[RCSignals]

Mac. Agreed. The fellow who wrote that obviously is paraphrasing the NHTSA report. I used to have a link to it but naturally can't locate it.
It may be on their site and or http://www.cvpi.com

[RCSignals]

Interesting photo Too bad there isn't a story to go with it

http://www.fhp.state.fl.us/html/photogallery/graphics/Harrigillbyhiscrashedcruiser.j pg

[martyo]

Interesting photo indeed. If a picture speak a 1,000 words, I like the story this picture tells.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by RCSignals
Mac. Agreed. The fellow who wrote that obviously is paraphrasing the NHTSA report. I used to have a link to it but naturally can't locate it.
It may be on their site and or http://www.cvpi.com

I found a press release and full report here

http://www.cvpi.com/NHTSA.htm

Still absorbing this myself, but Ms. Johnson may have shot herself in both feet after all.

[CRUZTAKER]

Nice find Mac, makes my find look irrelevent.
Realizing this topic was coming to a close, I decided to add something myself. This small article was in the Mon. March 3, 2003 Money section of the USA Today:

[RCSignals]

Interesting that news article says "in court" It was in a deposition, not a trial

[RCSignals]

"Other safety measures in the works for Crown Victorias

March 3, 2003

BY JOEL STASHENKO
ASSOCIATED PRESS

ALBANY, N.Y. -- State Police officials are retrofitting safety devices on an allegedly fire-prone model of the Ford Crown Victoria, while Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton pushes for that and other safety devices to be installed on all such police cruisers.

The Crown Victoria accounts for about 80 percent of police cars nationwide.

All 1,000 Crown Victoria Interceptors in New York's State Police fleet have been retrofitted with a $27 plastic shield that goes around the gas tank of the vehicle and is supposed to inhibit fires during accidents.

Last week, Clinton sought to require more monitoring and safety improvements to the estimated 350,000 Crown Victoria police cars nationwide.

"Every hour of every day, hundreds of thousands of men and women in law enforcement put their lives on the line to protect us from harm," the New York Democrat wrote in a letter to U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta. "We should do all we can to ensure that as our law enforcement officers do their jobs, they are not to be put unnecessarily in harm's way."

State Police Superintendent James McMahon said Ford Motor Co. is developing a fuel bladder to go inside the gas tank of the vehicle to inhibit puncturing in an accident. NASCAR race cars have a similar bladder, he said.

Ford is also working on a device that would cover vulnerable areas of the fuel system with fire-surpressing powder in case of an accident, and on a lining unit for the trunk of the Crown Victoria. That would keep items policemen carry in the back of patrol cars from slicing through the rear wall of a vehicle and into the fuel tank in case of a violent blow from behind, McMahon said.

According to the superintendent, State Police are also "looking at other vehicles" for use as patrol cars, though the Crown Victoria dominates the market because of its roomy interior and full steel-frame construction.

Trooper Jeff Kayser, car committee chairman for New York State Troopers Police Benevolent Association, said the force must incorporate any retrofits that would improve the safety of Crown Victorias.

"We expressed our concern to him (McMahon) that the cars aren't safe enough and there is technology that needs to be added to the cars aftermarket," Kayser said. "Obviously, it's going to cost them some money. But we stop people every day on the side of the road. It's a huge issue for our people. Money shouldn't be an issue. Can you place a value on the life of a trooper?"

In addition to the Crown Victorias, the State Police have perhaps 100 other vehicles, including Chevrolet Camaros and some four-wheel-drive vehicles, a spokesman said.

On Dec. 19, Trooper Robert Ambrose was killed in a fiery crash when a Jeep going about 90 mph struck the Crown Victoria he sat in on the side of the State Thruway in Yonkers from behind.

The driver of the Jeep, whom McMahon said was intoxicated, also died.

McMahon called Ambrose's death a "tremendous tragedy." The trooper's family is suing Ford for $250 million, contending negligence in manufacturing the Crown Victoria.

Ford defends the vehicle, saying it has performed admirably for thousands of police forces throughout the country. Company spokesmen have also pointed out the 13 police officers who died in the Crown Victoria in recent memory perished after they were hit by vehicles going at least 70 mph.

"Our sympathy goes out to the officers' families, but we do not believe any other comparable vehicles' fuel tanks could have survived the severity of these impacts," the company said in a recent statement.

The Crown Victoria also has the government's five-star crash rating, the highest available, Ford said.

At a legislative hearing in New York last week, state Republican Sen. Dale Volker said most people who talk about protecting policemen from the kind of high-speed crash that killed Ambrose don't understand the issue.

Volker, who said he investigated many fatal auto accidents as an Erie County sheriff's deputy, asked McMahon, "Did you ever remember an accident when a car was hit at 90 mph and someone survived?"

"It's not often," McMahon, a 37-year veteran of the State Police, replied.

"That's the problem with this kind of issue," Volker said. "Any car hit at 90 mph, and you're in it, the chance of survival is nil."

[RCSignals]

I wonder if Hillary realises she drives around in a Lincoln Town Car?

[SergntMac]

The more, the merrier, right? I mean, why not...

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0303/04/d01-99194.htm

[MAD-3R]

Actually, both articals have a great final couple of paragraphs to them. On about the fuel leaking only in the 75mph test crash. (liquids don't compress) and the other concerning surviving a 90mph crash.

[RCSignals]

They won't quit either. It doesn't matter that the NHTSB has declared it a non problem
It doesn't matter that these "standards" the platform fails for rear end crashes are non existent, and their own. It doesn't matter that the Federal standard is 30mph for rear crash tests, and Ford tests themselves to 50, with the platform passing handily.

The "Center for Auto Safety" is set up and run by trial lawyers, not the "safety concerned"

I notice they once again are playing with statics "At least a dozen officers have perished in fires after high-speed rear-impact collisions involving the Crown Victoria since 1996." The statement varies with every article.

I know this whole issue is a pain, but it is relevant to us. It has been moved from being a "Police" issue, because of the work that is done by Police in these cars, but is now being moved to cover the entire Panther platform.
They want our cars gone!

[MAD-3R]

I just want my Clue bat.....

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
I just want my Clue bat.....

Shall I guess who/what you may want to swing at?

[RCSignals]

ARTICLE:
By JOE MAHONEY
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/65050p-60616c.html

State troopers have their Irish up because the pick for grand marshal of the St. Patrick's Day Parade is a boss with Ford, which cops say makes dangerous patrol cars.

Troopers say they have no quarrel in particular with James O'Connor, a Manhattan-born vice president for Ford Motor Co. But they say Ford's Crown Victoria patrol cars have gas tanks that have been known to rupture or explode on rear impact, and they say Ford has not done enough about the problem.

"It is discouraging to think that a vice president of a company that has insulted police agencies and associations with its defiant stand against efforts to ensure the safety of our nation's police officers would lead this year's parade," the board of directors of the New York State Police Benevolent Association wrote in a letter yesterday to parade chairman James Barker of Queens.

On Dec. 19, state Trooper Robert Ambrose was killed on I-87 in Yonkers when his Crown Victoria was rear-ended while parked on the side of the road. At least 13 cops nationwide have died in fires after high-speed rear-impact collisions involving Crown Victorias since 1996. Ambrose's family is suing Ford for $250 million.

Ford says the cars are safe, though it has helped police departments retrofit them with gas tanks shields.

O'Connor could not be reached for comment, but Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley said the state PBA is off-base.

"We're really sorry they feel that way," Kinley said. "We still maintain the Crown Victoria is a safe vehicle, and we're doing everything we can to make police work safer."

But Dan DeFedericis, the union president, said Ford's efforts have been too little and too late.

"We feel Ford has stuck their head in the sand," he said. "I know there are families of deceased police officers who have a different view than Ford."

The auto maker is a major sponsor of the parade, which typically draws about 300,000 spectators along Fifth Ave. and millions of television viewers.
Originally published on March 7, 2003

[jefferson-mo]

OK guys...here we go. This was in my local paper Friday Mar 7



http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/fri/metro/news_2m7copcar.html

[sailsmen]

After reading the NHSTA report this whole thing reeks of $$$$ and political posturing. The Dallas DA is posturing for political reasons, the union has a cause to justify it's existence, the "auto consumer safety groups" have a cause to justify their existence and the plaintiffs have a huge financial interest in seeing Ford portrayed as grossly negligent.

I ask you to remember the Audi "unintended acceleration" fiasco of a few years ago. I will never forget one of the major net works hired an engineer to highly modify an Audi to show "untinended acceleration". At the end of the day it was proven there was nothing wrong with the car and the law of physics also applied to Audi. In most cases the vehicles were driven by the secondary driver and the brake pedal was closer to the gas pedal then most US marketed vehicles.

I also ask you to remember the GM side saddle gas tank video done by another major network. The tank was purposely over filled, the wrong gas cap was purposely used on the tank and fireworks were attached to the frame rails.

The $$$$ issue is influenced by the tabbacco settlement in which the alledged victims received zero dollars. I personally know one of the lead plaintiff attorneys and his personal take is $30 million a year for 25 years. He also bought the leading witness a house before he testified againest the tobbacco industry.

[RCSignals]

They continue to manipulate the statistics. From the San Diego article
"At least 15 police officers across the country, including three in Arizona, have died over the past seven years in fires sparked when gas tanks in squad cars ruptured in rear-end collisions."

The trend is to portray the figures back to 1996, instead of 1982. I guess if they print it as 1996 enough it will become true

[RCSignals]

The San Diego Article in case it disapears


Local law enforcement retrofitting patrol cars


By Joe Hughes
STAFF WRITER

March 7, 2003


Law enforcement agencies throughout the county are modifying an estimated 1,500 squad cars in an attempt to prevent fuel tanks from exploding after high-speed, rear-end crashes.

At least 15 police officers across the country, including three in Arizona, have died over the past seven years in fires sparked when gas tanks in squad cars ruptured in rear-end collisions.

The cruisers, built by Ford Motor Co. under the Police Interceptor trade name, have been the focus of complaints from police and private agencies nationwide.

The rear-wheel-drive police sedan, sold commercially as the Crown Victoria, has long been the vehicle of choice for police departments nationwide.

Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley said there are 350,000 Police Interceptors on the road.

"We have shipped kits for 240,000 cruisers," she said yesterday. Ford is paying for the modifications.

No officers have been killed from gas tank explosions in San Diego County. But there have been some close calls.

In March of last year, a California Highway Patrol officer was seriously injured when her squad car broadsided a pickup in Pauma at nearly 80 mph. The squad car caught fire. Two people were killed in the collision – but not from the resulting fire. The CHP has refused to release exact details of that crash and it is not clear if the fire was connected to the ongoing problem.

"We've been fortunate so far," said John Alley, fleet administrator for the San Diego Police Department. Alley said no San Diego police cars have experienced fire/fuel tank problems.

The department averages two to three accidents involving police cars daily, officials say. Almost all, however, are minor fender benders.

The added safety measures are receiving a big thumbs-up from officers.

"We are all for anything that makes us safer out there," CHP Officer Mark Gregg said. Gregg works in the agency's San Diego division, where 45 cruisers are being upgraded.

San Diego police, by far, have modified the largest number of cars – 709 – in the county.

"We are about 98 percent finished," Alley said.

The Sheriff's Department has modified about 60 percent of its fleet of 400 cruisers, officials said.

The work includes placing rubber shields over the differential cover, rear axle and fuel tank. A new mounting is placed between the tank and rear bumper.

The public has also become interested in the kits, which Ford offers to consumers at $105 each. That does not include labor costs.

However, Ford officials and the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration believe police officers are much more likely to be involved in high-speed, rear-end collisions that end up in fiery crashes from fuel tank explosions.

An NHTSA study completed in October found that Crown Victorias exceeded federal standards for fuel system safety.

The fatal accidents have mostly occurred when the cruisers are rear-ended while parked on the side of a freeway. For that reason, police agencies advise officers to park as far to the side of roadways as possible.



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Joe Hughes: (619) 542-4591; joe.hughes@uniontrib.com




Copyright 2003 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.