Stock to Stock

[Big House]

Impala SS or Merc Marauder...who wins. I had a little run in with one yesterday. I was merging onto 295 and saw one approaching from the rear. I got over and gave him an opportunity to pull along side me, but traffic slowed and I stayed in from of him This just didn't sit well with the other driver so he, after a few aggressive manauvers he got in from of me and showed me how loud his exhaust was. I say this because the car really didn't move any faster but was really loud. We finally got to a place where he could really show me what he had so he stomped and tried to pullaway from me...he he he....he tried. Again...with his exhaust bellowing like a sick animal, iI ran him down just as the RPM's crested 3500. I passed him...nodded and went our own ways. That was a fun encounter.

[Marauder2005]

My buddy has a black '96 I think we are a little faster, maybe

not off the line right away but, I think we got just a little more stock

VS. stock...

[Joe Walsh]

Way to go!!! He made a big mistake in trying to run you 'from a roll'.
Out of the hole, an Impala's low end torque will beat a Marauder, BUT once a Marauder is rolling and can use its' high rpm horsepower....BYE BYE! Mr Impala.
I love how these Marauders move when you kick it down at @ 45 mph and let 'er scream!

[merc]

Impala SS or Merc Marauder...who wins. I had a little run in with one yesterday. I was merging onto 295 and saw one approaching from the rear. I got over and gave him an opportunity to pull along side me, but traffic slowed and I stayed in from of him This just didn't sit well with the other driver so he, after a few aggressive manauvers he got in from of me and showed me how loud his exhaust was. I say this because the car really didn't move any faster but was really loud. We finally got to a place where he could really show me what he had so he stomped and tried to pullaway from me...he he he....he tried. Again...with his exhaust bellowing like a sick animal, iI ran him down just as the RPM's crested 3500. I passed him...nodded and went our own ways. That was a fun encounter.

Most SS Impala's on route 295 suffer from pothole damage and the daily drivers have over 100,000 miles on them. Be kind to them in passing, because they are doing their best to stay on the road. Beating up on these old road warriors are like asking my grandfather to run a 10k race. But if they show at the track, I will try my best to serve up a case of whoop ass for all his friends and family. :beer:

[jstevens]

according to chev website, even the s/c 3800 only puts out 240 horses.

I know my chip and 4.10's really get me out the hole. I just love the power this car offers. The site doesn't list the torque, but even stock you've got a pretty good advantage.

[Joe Walsh]

according to chev website, even the s/c 3800 only puts out 240 horses.
I know my chip and 4.10's really get me out the hole. I just love the power this car offers. The site doesn't list the torque, but even stock you've got a pretty good advantage.


Good point...I assumed you ran a mid 90s Impala SS with the 260 hp/330 ft-lbs LT1 V8,.... not a late model Impala SS (FWD turdmobile) with the S/C 3800 V6... :dunno:

[BillyGman]

They're very close IF they're both really completely stock. my brother has a 94 Buick Roadmaster which has the exact same 350 LT1 engine that the 94-96 Impala SS cars had, but the Roadmaster is even 300 LBS heaveir than our Marauders and the Impalas are weighing in at a whopping 4,500 LBS w/out a driver.


Anyway, I was using his Roadmaster for transporataion for several days while I was installing the Trilogy supercharger on my Marauder. Ever since my Marauder was completely factory stock, I had not only taken it to the track, but have also used the "G-Tech" G-meter device to record it's quartermile times on a stretch of highway that I chose that is nice and straight and flat where there's never any traffic on at 1:00 am (which is close to the time that I get out of work). My Marauder in it's stock configuration turned a 15.2 second quartermile ET, with a 94 MPH trap speed, and a 0-60 MPH time of 7.0 seconds.

So when I had my brother's Roadmaster, I noticed that it was quicker off the line if I walked it out of the hole using half throttle, and then once it hit about 20 MPH, I could then punch it. And when I punched it right off the line, it would lay rubber all the way through first gear, and part of the way into second gear. And this car has 100,000 miles on it.

So seeing that the Roadmaster was definately quicker off the line, and had more Low-end torque than my Maruder did when it was stock, I took it up on that same stretch of highway with my "G-tech" device to see how it would compare with the stock Marauder. Knowing how the Roadmaster would smoke the tires off the line from a dead punch, I walked it out of the hole again using half throttle until it got moving, and then I punched it, And the car turned a 15.0 second ET, with a 96 MPH trap speed and a clearly better 0-60 MPH time than the Marauder of 6.3 seconds.

And this "G-tech" device always gave me ET #'s that were within one tenth of a second to the times my car turned at the drag strip back when the car was N/A. So my conclusion is that the two cars are very close in the quartermile with the Marauder having the edge after 40 MPH, but with a good driver in the Impala SS, the Marauder will be playing catch-up once the 40 MPH mark was reached. It would be so close that it could go either way depending on how good the Impala SS driver was at walking the car out of the hole in order to avoid tire spin.

[Big House]

It was the LT1 equipped 95-96 model.

[Bluerauder]

Impala SS or Merc Marauder...who wins. I had a little run in with one yesterday.
Like Joe said ... he made a mistake trying you from a roll. :D I believe that I read a thread here that indicated that from a standing start, the Impala SS would take the first 1/8 mile (on torque) and the Marauder would scream by to take the 1/4 (on horsepower). :burnout:

[BillyGman]

Same engine,exhaust,transmission, and rear end as the ones in my brother's Roadmaster. ;)

[stevengerard]

I raced my siblings roadmaster many times, it always beat me off the line - by 35mph I was passing it. Both were stock, obviously now it wouldn't be close with my DR vortec installed.

[QWK SVT]

Like Joe said ... he made a mistake trying you from a roll. :D I believe that I read a thread here that indicated that from a standing start, the Impala SS would take the first 1/8 mile (on torque) and the Marauder would scream by to take the 1/4 (on horsepower). :burnout:From what I've seen, the average LT1 Impala SS does the 1/4 in about 14.9 - 15.2 @ 91 - 93. Should be a pretty close race, assuming the SS has been well kept. It seems the stock Marauders are in the same range, but at a higher speed, which would correspond with the above...

Mod for Mod, the winner will be the one with the most $$$ invested...

[SergntMac]

Nice job, Big House, congrats.

Badge for badge, the Impala SS has more sporting identifiers. That must count for something...

[Bradley G]

Are you talking about the Impala logo? or the overall sportiness?

Nice story Big House,I have seen quite a few in my area, some I would run, some I will pass on:D
Bradley G

Nice job, Big House, congrats.

Badge for badge, the Impala SS has more sporting identifiers. That must count for something...

[BillyGman]

From what I've seen, the average LT1 Impala SS does the 1/4 in about 14.9 - 15.2 @ 91 - 93. Should be a pretty close race, assuming the SS has been well kept. It seems the stock Marauders are in the same range, but at a higher speed, which would correspond with the above...yes, that I agree with.

Mod for Mod, the winner will be the one with the most $$$ invested...But I dunno about that. From what I saw at the drag strip back in December of 2003 when Marty and I raced the Impala SS club in Atco, NJ, I think that mod for mod, the Impala SS cars will respond better than our cars will due to the extra 70 cubic inches they have under the hood. Just go to their website and click on their timeslips page, and you'll notice that they have plenty of cars well in the 12 second bracket w/out any power adders, and many if not most of them with one power adder such as nitrous oxide are in the mid 11's, and some even in the high 10's.

I think that Marauders look way better than their cars do though, and besides all of that, their cars are pretty old, and therefore many of them have had engine rebuilds.

[QWK SVT]

But I dunno about that. From what I saw at the drag strip back in December of 2003 when Marty and I raced the Impala SS club in Atco, NJ, I think that mod for mod, the Impala SS cars will respond better than our cars will due to the extra 70 cubic inches they have under the hood. Just go to their website and click on their timeslips page, and you'll notice that they have plenty of cars well in the 12 second bracket w/out any power adders, and many if not most of them with one power adder such as nitrous oxide are in the mid 11's, and some even in the high 10's.

I think that Marauders look way better than their cars do though, and besides all of that, their cars are pretty old, and therefore many of them have had engine rebuilds.
I agree, in theory they probably should respond a bit better, with the extra displacement. Short of a S/C most Marauders will not be able to match peak TQ numbers - which should have a big impact on the 1/4 mile times.

Somehow, they seem to stay close, when it's just basic bolt ons, though :confused::
An SS with full exhaust, CAI, 3.73 gears, chip and stall = 13.8 - 14.2.
That seems pretty consistent, with the MM, too. Maybe the addition of some pulleys to even it out.

As for running 12's, I don't think too many can do that, without forced induction, nitrous or opening up the engine. With the LT1, there are so many options for heads/cams/etc. that they can make that car hustle, for a pretty good price. Hell, a stock rebuild, with a little clean up inside the heads and an LT4 cam will really motivate the big car.

PS - I COMPLETELY agree with the looks assessment!:cool:

[BillyGman]

The Impala SS website timeslips section breks their cars down into 6 different classes according to the level of modification performed on their engines. So I think you'll find it interesting to check that out. It's quite revealing. I seem to remember Glen (our own "Stumpy" who's also a member of the Impala board) running 12.99 ET's with merely an intake tube upgrade, computer re-flash, headers, gears and an aftermarket torque converter. I don't believe he had opened up the engine to have any heads and cam work at that time.


But maybe he will stop in here and weigh in on this himself. In the meantime their timeslips page that's divided into 6 different classes is very interesting.;)

[BillyGman]

Okay. below is a link to the Impala SS "Top ET" page. Click on it, and look at the top where it explains the 6 race classes. You'll notice that it syas class number 6 as being N/A stock motor. The only thing that they're allowed to do to their cars in that class are exhaust changes, gears,torque converter upgrades and air filter and intake tube changes. The only other thing would be bigger rocker arms, but I can assure you that a different rocker arm ratio doesn't do a whole lot (I've performed that mod to my old 350 Vette when I had it until last year).


Click on the link below and look at the following three entries:

#82 Rick Bagnard 12.7 ET (2,800 RPM stall speed, & 3.73 gears)

#87 Eric Seaman 12.7 ET ( 3,200 RPM stall speed & 3.73 gears)

#102 Nabil Guffey (I raced against him ) 12.9 ET

all of these guys had stock N/A engines(stock cams and stock heads, and stock bottom ends with the original 5.7L displacements). If you click onto the "details" link next to each of their names on that list, it will tell you exactly what mods they've done to their drivetrain that enabled them to turn those ET's. There are more examples on that list that prove that a bigger displacement engine in an equally heavy car to the Marauder responds better to the same mods that Marauder owners have done to their smaller engined cars. It's just a fact of life. But like I've previously mentioned, I think that our Marauders look a whole lot better. ;)

here's the link so you can see for yourself:

http://dan.esteban.com/impalass/ReturnTopET.asp

[Bradley G]

I was told by a SS owner at the track, that his car only weighs 3850 #'s ?I thought they weighed within 100-150#'s of the Marauder.
Bradley G

[BillyGman]

I was told by a SS owner at the track, that his car only weighs 3850 #'s ?I thought they weighed within 100-150#'s of the Marauder.
Bradley G Are you sure that he didn't remove the back seat and some other things from the interior?

[QWK SVT]

Okay. below is a link to the Impala SS "Top ET" page. Click on it, and look at the top where it explains the 6 race classes. You'll notice that it syas class number 6 as being N/A stock motor. The only thing that they're allowed to do to their cars in that class are exhaust changes, gears,torque converter upgrades and air filter and intake tube changes. The only other thing would be bigger rocker arms, but I can assure you that a different rocker arm ratio doesn't do a whole lot (I've performed that mod to my old 350 Vette when I had it until last year).

Click on the link below and look at the following three entries:

#82 Rick Bagnard 12.7 ET (2,800 RPM stall speed, & 3.73 gears)

#87 Eric Seaman 12.7 ET ( 3,200 RPM stall speed & 3.73 gears)

#102 Nabil Guffey (I raced against him ) 12.9 ET

all of these guys had stock N/A engines(stock cams and stock heads, and stock bottom ends with the original 5.7L displacements). If you click onto the "details" link next to each of their names on that list, it will tell you exactly what mods they've done to their drivetrain that enabled them to turn those ET's. There are more examples on that list that prove that a bigger displacement engine in an equally heavy car to the Marauder responds better to the same mods that Marauder owners have done to their smaller engined cars. It's just a fact of life. But like I've previously mentioned, I think that our Marauders look a whole lot better.

here's the link so you can see for yourself:
http://dan.esteban.com/impalass/ReturnTopET.asp
Thanks for the link - I've spent some time surfing thru a number of entries... The one thing I notice is that the quick ones all have great 60' times. The slowest of the three above was 1.738 :burnout: That's what torque and slicks (which they all seemed to be using) can do. Shaving weight off the bumpers is not something I'd be willing to do in my quest for quickness, but I noticed that a lot in the list.

I still agree, once they get past the simple bolt ons, the LT1's large aftermarket support is far superior to that of the DOHC 4.6L.

I also notice a lot of entries in the 14's, with just the basics - Chip + Gears + Intake + Exhaust. There's a fair bit of variation, but here's a quick sampling:

220 Dave Goshorn 14.118 @ 97.23 (chip, 3.73, pulleys, throttle body, CAI, headers, removed mufflers and some suspension)
230 Garry Forman 14.232 @ 97.01 (chip, 3.42, CAI, full exhaust, drag radials)
302 Tom Weil 14.802 @ 95.15 (chip, 3.73, catback, pulley, CAI)

So, I still think that a lightly modded MM and an equally lightly modded SS will be close, and likely come down to driver. They obviously have a factory average, and varation on either ends of the spectrum... So, line up against one and you could win, or you could lose. That's racing, and what makes it interesting! ;)

[QWK SVT]

I was told by a SS owner at the track, that his car only weighs 3850 #'s ?I thought they weighed within 100-150#'s of the Marauder.
Bradley G
There's some parts missing, for sure... I'm guessing at least the spare, jack, seats, and A/C gone... Maybe even a few other things, too.

One of the one's Billy just posted about had Trailer hitch and sway bars off, front passenger seat and rear seat removed, Weld drag lites ang lite weight front and rear bumpers. The car weighed a reported 3830lb without driver...

[teamrope]

From what I've seen, we are very close. I'm glad the SS was produced, otherwise, there would have been no motivation at FMC to produce our beloved MM's.

On top of that, they made it cool to drive a 4 door. :)

[BillyGman]

yeah, I suppose that there's probably many more Impala SS owners that won't hesitate to start removing alot of creature comfort car parts in order to strip some weight off their cars than there are marauder owners since our Marauders are merely a year or two old while their cars are ten years old. But "stock vs Stock" they are very close in the quartermile with each having strong points in a different part of the race.

[Bradley G]

He would not share details,he seemed very intimidated.

He told me this while pushing his car into the final spot, before staging.
I made a comment about another SS that was there that day,(It was painted metalic Barbie pink.)"what do you think of the other SS that is here today?"
he replied"Yeah!, they ( track security)gave him the boot!"
I replied "how come?"
He stated " he took out his dash and other interior parts!"
I did not ask him if he did anything to save weight,he was preoccupied with pushing his car.All he would tell me is, his best last season.:rolleyes:
Bradley G
Are you sure that he didn't remove the back seat and some other things from the interior?