liquid CO2 (carbon dioxide)

[LimoMerc]

Just came across this and would like your :twocents: ,Thanks
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-VehicleBrowse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2009884/showCustom-0/p-2009884/N-10114+200731115+111+2004/c-10114

[Bradley G]

Yeah!,

Inquiring minds want to know!
Is this more readily available? does it cost less to re- fill?any advantage to either one?Anybody using this ?
Thanks LimoMerc!
Bradley G

[maraudernkc]

This is what I am going to spray my intercooler with. You can fill these bottles at any welding supply or place that refill cartriges for paint guns.

[Joe Walsh]

This is what I am going to spray my intercooler with. You can fill these bottles at any welding supply or place that refill cartriges for paint guns.

BEWARE!!! Make sure there is no way for the expended CO2 to get drawn into your air filter/intake....

If you are spraying your intercooler, which is down in front of the car and CO2 gets up into your intake it will screw-up your A/F ratio* or possibly make the engine stall,
as CO2 does not combust.

*The computer assumes that all the 'air' being metered is 20% oxygen but in reality some of it is now CO2.

[blackf0rk]

I had this on my Turbo'd Impala. I didn't know anything about Cry02 systems, so when I called the place up to order it, I asked if it came with everything to install it and make it work with my intake. They said, yes.

So I get the system hook everything up and I have it spraying into my intake, since I had used all the parts up. I figured, well, this must be where it goes. So I'm WOT, and I press the switch and it sprays C02 into the intake and the engine stalls. LOL

At this point I didn't put two and two together, so I went home a thought about it. What is in your engine, essentially? FIRE. What's in a fire extngiusher? C02. C02 + FIRE = NO FIRE. *sigh*

So I call the company back up and ask 'em how this thing is suppose to work. They failed to tell me that you need to buy an intercooler sprayer bar, OR the intake bulb, whic 'hovers' in your intake and radiates cold air as the C02 decompresses and passes through the bulb.

Needless to say I never got the know the full effects of C02 on my engine, side from it stalling it LOL

[Mike Poore]

Just came across this and would like your :twocents: ,Thanks
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-VehicleBrowse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2009884/showCustom-0/p-2009884/N-10114+200731115+111+2004/c-10114
CO2 is the stuff in fire extinguishers they use to put out fires; needless to say, it will also put out the fire (combustion) inside your motor also. IMHO, using the stuff to enhance performance makes no sense whatsoever. That's my :twocents:

[maraudernkc]

We use a draw thru design in our supercharger kit for the Marauder. The air enters thru the K&N intake then goes thru the supercharger where the air is then compressed and heats up. The air than passes thru the Intercooler and is cooled and enters into the intake of the motor. We use a Lighting MAF which is right by our air filter than we have our EIAS ( external air intake sensor) at the intake of the motor. When I spray my Intercooler with CO2 the air will be cooled even further and the EIAS will measure the tempature at the intake.



BEWARE!!! Make sure there is no way for the expended CO2 to get drawn into your air filter/intake....

If you are spraying your intercooler, which is down in front of the car and CO2 gets up into your intake it will screw-up your A/F ratio* or possibly make the engine stall,
as CO2 does not combust.

*The computer assumes that all the 'air' being metered is 20% oxygen but in reality some of it is now CO2.

[FordNut]

We use a draw thru design in our supercharger kit for the Marauder. The air enters thru the K&N intake then goes thru the supercharger where the air is then compressed and heats up. The air than passes thru the Intercooler and is cooled and enters into the intake of the motor. We use a Lighting MAF which is right by our air filter than we have our EIAS ( external air intake sensor) at the intake of the motor. When I spray my Intercooler with CO2 the air will be cooled even further and the EIAS will measure the tempature at the intake.
That has nothing to do with what they are warning you about. Spray CO2 on the intercooler and it cools the intercooler, which improves cooling of air inside it. Excess CO2 from the intercooler spray bar just floats around under the hood. If the air filter picks up this CO2, it will remove power, usually even more loss than gained by the cooling. i.e. STALLING.

[Joe Walsh]

That has nothing to do with what they are warning you about. Spray CO2 on the intercooler and it cools the intercooler, which improves cooling of air inside it. Excess CO2 from the intercooler spray bar just floats around under the hood. If the air filter picks up this CO2, it will remove power, usually even more loss than gained by the cooling. i.e. STALLING.


^^^^^^^^YES....YES^^^^^^^

There is no way to predict where the spent CO2 is going to travel and most likely some/most of it will get up into the engine compartment where your air intake is....
The ONLY way to be sure is to have your air intake ahead of the CO2 spray system, which is not feasible or could only be done with a huge RICER snorkel hanging out front. :puke:

[maraudernkc]

You spary the Intercooler for about 6 seconds. This is done right after your burnout at the dragstrip. This liquid gas will freeze the intercooler at about -60 Degrees. You are not spraying the intercooler as your driving the car. I do understand what you are saying about the airfilter but it will be enclosed.

I appreciate the warning! :burnout:

Has anyone used this on there Interccoler before?



That has nothing to do with what they are warning you about. Spray CO2 on the intercooler and it cools the intercooler, which improves cooling of air inside it. Excess CO2 from the intercooler spray bar just floats around under the hood. If the air filter picks up this CO2, it will remove power, usually even more loss than gained by the cooling. i.e. STALLING.

[blackf0rk]

Does anyone read my posts ever? jesus...I how many times do I have to say things.:mad2:

[FordNut]

Does anyone read my posts ever? jesus...I how many times do I have to say things.:mad2:
You mean this one:


I had this on my Turbo'd Impala. I didn't know anything about Cry02 systems, so when I called the place up to order it, I asked if it came with everything to install it and make it work with my intake. They said, yes.

So I get the system hook everything up and I have it spraying into my intake, since I had used all the parts up. I figured, well, this must be where it goes. So I'm WOT, and I press the switch and it sprays C02 into the intake and the engine stalls. LOL

At this point I didn't put two and two together, so I went home a thought about it. What is in your engine, essentially? FIRE. What's in a fire extngiusher? C02. C02 + FIRE = NO FIRE. *sigh*

So I call the company back up and ask 'em how this thing is suppose to work. They failed to tell me that you need to buy an intercooler sprayer bar, OR the intake bulb, whic 'hovers' in your intake and radiates cold air as the C02 decompresses and passes through the bulb.

Needless to say I never got the know the full effects of C02 on my engine, side from it stalling it LOL:
Yeah we read it. It is inconclusive as you said yourself you never got to know the full effect.

[Bradley G]

So if I am understanding this correctly;the carbon dioxide chills the intercooler prior to racing,and the nos cools the AIT during the pass?
Bradley G

[Joe Walsh]

So if I am understanding this correctly;the carbon dioxide chills the intercooler prior to racing,and the nos cools the AIT during the pass?
Bradley G

The only thing that the C02 is for is to cool whatever it is sprayed on...in this case the exterior of the intercooler...

The NOS (Nitrous Oxide) does cool the intake charge BUT its primary function is to supply extra oxygen to the combustion process.
'NOS' = NO2 which breaks down at high heat levels into one molecule of Nitrogen and two molecules of Oxygen.
Additional fuel can be added to use the extra oxygen and VOILA! more HP...NOS is just another way to get more oxygen into an engine.

[MI2QWK4U]

For what its worth, I did extensive research on this concept over a year ago. I discovered that people were having problems with this very kit. Everyone I talked to, including distributors and salesmen told me it was junk, and could hurt your motor if your car ingested the co2. When I talked to a company rep, they told me that that was just a nasty rumor, and there was no way a car could suck the co2 gas into the motor via the air intake. What a bunch of Bullstuff. I did some further checking to find a co2 system that does not vent inside the engine compartment. The results were good, perhaps more noticable on a supercharged car. Read my thread on it.

CO2 Intercooler Thread (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10640)

[SergntMac]

For what its worth, I did extensive research on this concept over a year ago. I discovered that people were having problems with this very kit. Everyone I talked to, including distributors and salesmen told me it was junk, and could hurt your motor if your car ingested the co2. When I talked to a company rep, they told me that that was just a nasty rumor, and there was no way a car could suck the co2 gas into the motor via the air intake. What a bunch of Bullstuff. I did some further checking to find a co2 system that does not vent inside the engine compartment. The results were good, perhaps more noticable on a supercharged car. Read my thread on it.

Dave...I read through your link and frankly, it doesn't do your mod any justice. That thread is filled with wiseazz crap that obfuscates your contribution. I took the liberty of culling the pics, and your factual performance reports. Please forgive my edit.

I feel your mod is remarkable, and quite valuable to supercharged cars using heat exchangers. I hope I got it all correct, and I hope you're not upset by my effort. I'm only trying to extract your investigative data from distracting remarks. If you disagree with my intent, please e-me and I'll make any corrections you deem necessary.

I was approached by a company that developed, or actually adapted a cooling system for liquid cooled Ford supercharged setups, primarily designed for Cobras and Lightnings. Since the intercooling setup on the Trilogy Marauders is very simular to the Cobra setup, it was thought it might help out.

Their initial research data on a Cobra with this prototype system appreciated a 45 degree drop in coolant temps in fluid entering the intercooler/supercharger. For anyone that knows anything about coolant temps in the supercharger as related to performance as a result knows that is a BIG deal. The Marauder setup is yet another shot at prototyping a system that will yield results for liquid intercooled S/Ced cars.

This approach eliminates the biggest problem with some other sytems that vent the CO2 on the heat exchanger directly, the problem with that setup is you run a risk of injesting some CO2 into your air intake which is very bad. There are some problems inherant to this venture and it seems more trouble than its worth, but *****, I love playing with this car!

The Eatons on trilogy cars is larger than on the Cobra, not sure about lightnings, but our setup makes more heat than the cobra. I am plumbing some temp sending units to monitor the coolant temperature as it leaves the supercharger, very hot, and the coolant temperature as it leaves the CO2 cooling unit, which should be cooler and goes directly to the supercharger to cool intake air better. I really wont be able to determine how effective it is until I can monitor temps, and adjust jet size accordingly.

If we can duplicate the 45 degree drop in inlet coolant temp for the supercharger, that means when using the system on the street or strip, you can have another program on your chip that will allow you to tune in relation to that inlet temp which could mean timing and as a result more RWHP by fliping the chip and chilling your coolant. I will let you know if you are interested in the results of our ongoing plunking with it.

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1070-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1068-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1067-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1076-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1104-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1106-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1103-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1102-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1088-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1087-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1096-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1099-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1093-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/252Cryo_1094-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/252Cryo_1402-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/252Cryo_1401-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/252Cryo_1400-med.JPG
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/252Cryo_1397-med.JPG

I have done a lot of research on different cooling methods, from old fashioned ice bath containers in the trunk, to tapping the freon sytem to chill coolant, to using CO2. Of those top 3 methods, the CO2 seemed safer, less invasive than tapping the AC system, cheaper, etc. Of CO2 systems, I eliminated the "spraying" CO2 thru the heat exchanger, to much of a risk of sucking in the CO2 in your intake, leaving the system we are trying to modify to the Eaton equipped Marauder.

This system vents the CO2. The cooling occurs when the liquid CO2 is sprayed into the coolant chiller (shown mounted to the crossmember in the pictures). The CO2 hits the hot coolant flowing thru the unit, and becomes CO2 gas, which is vented safely away from the air intake side of the motor compartment. The freshly chilled coolant is then run thru the intercooler mounted to the Eaton so you have cooler charge air. It is impossible to recirculate the CO2 gas, it would take a pump to compress the gas and that just wont work. The tank should give you 3-4 runs, but thats speculation now and is one of the things we are working on figuring out.

This system does not spray on the heat exchanger, it passes thru the chiller unit cooling the liquid. That silver unit that has the heater hose on either end in the pictures is the chiller unit. It is not a closed system, and vents the CO2 gas as the liquified CO2 hits the heat from the coolant. Imagine the liquified coolant is appx 100 degrees below zero!

There is a lot of potential for making this work in our cars. It should be mentioned that CO2 is redily available at welding supply shops, medical suppy centers, beverage companies, and any supplier that deals with gasses.

It is safe to handle, not explosive, and dirt cheap. A 10 lb bottle costs $7 to $10 to fill. It cant hurt your car, just make it run like it does on a crisp fall or spring day, when it is 80 degrees out! If it gets a 40 degree drop in coolant temp on the cobra, there is no reason we cant get that for a supercharged marauder. I will try to plumb the temp sensors in the coolant lines and get the gauge hooked up for more info.
That's it folks, the real skinny on this deal, for the guy who took it upon himself to explore this mod.

Thanks, Dave. I learned a lot just editing, and I'm very interested in learning more about this kit. Humidity kills a supercharged anything, and I'm looking for an edge this summer.

[MI2QWK4U]

No prob Mac, I posted that thread in haste this afternoon, didnt realize it was full of junk along with the info.

This could be a valuable mod, I primarily used it to take the edge off of things when it was really hot out. I dont have enough data and research to say its acually worth tuning around though. That is to say, theoretically, if I lower the coolant temp from 115 to 75 degrees, I should be able to change my timing and increase horsepower dramatically. To me, its too much of a risk to place my full trust on. However, as you all know, in the cooler weather the supercharged cars...all of them...perfer cooler weather and run much better the colder the charge air is. There fore, even though I didnt tune around the chiller system, I did notice a DRAMATIC difference in how the car ran. At norwalk during a test and tune, I made one run at 115 coolant temp when I took the green light( i did this on purpouse hotlapping and not turning on the intercooler pump full time, it should be noted that this is NOT typical for a trilogy water cooled temp as you will read next). Next, I let the intercooler work as designed and at the time of launch, it was down to 97 degrees, on a cooler day without hot lapping this temp is usually around 75-80 degrees with cool down between laps....Lastly, I let the intercooler drop the temp down to around 100 again, and hit the chryo system. I let it run in short bursts in staging, then a long burst after the burnout (which will raise the temp), the end result was a coolant temp of 66 degrees when I launched. If you understand the difference in how your car runs in 50 or 60 degree weather compared to 90 degrees, then you will understand how I felt the chryo made a difference. Letting the stock intercooler do its job (coolant temp 97) dropped a tenth of a second from the time i set when i intentionally ran the coolant hot (115). When I made a run with the coolant temp chilled at 66 degrees, it was almost 2 1/2 tenths of a second faster. In fact I think it was Mike Zavislak that made the comment about my times with the chryo on at norwalk when it was in the high 90s, were the same as my times at Milan earlier in the season when it was in the 60s.
So I guess if you want to be brave and do some timing around the cooler temps, you could. I was happy at picking up 2 1/2 tenths on a hot day, or another way of running times equal to a 60 degree day when its 90 degrees out.

This system does not vent the co2 anywhere near the intake, so that wont affect your perfromance at all. 10# tanks of co2 will run you $8-10. Hooks up simular to Nitrous. I have a control switch in the car along with a light to remind me its on and functioning. I can gauge the performance by watching the Dakota digital gauge mounted inside the car on the left side of the cockpit. A lot of the pics Mac posted will show this.

Dont get sucked into that cheap co2 system, it will definitely cause you to stall and possibly detonate. Its not worth the chance...and they will say you hooked it up wrong and that someplace in fine print it warns you. Buyer beware.