Torsen and 3.73 INstalled

[BK_GrandMarquis]

I just these installed today. It was done at Dwayne Gutridge's shop in Jackson, NJ. Small shop but the guy knows his stuff. Took all day but it was partly my fault. I was late for my appointment because I got lost getting there. :( When I got there, they were installing a spool for a Mustang. Man was that thing loud. :eek:

So I went out to take it for a test drive and pick up my sister. On the way back I just lined up at the crosswalk like I always do and an Eclipse or something similar pulled up. I saw he was a younger guy and figured he might be up for something. I had my sister with me so I tried not to upset her too much. I took off spiritedly but not floored, probably 3/4 throttle. It's also drizzling now. He didn't seem to like a larger car pulling away from him so he kept up with me and slowly pushed his car too. I just kept accelerating and it's so much nicer than stock, no wheel spin either but I wasn't really pushing it. The little car pulled away and I let him go. Not positive I could have beat him but it would have been pretty close. I really try not too do this on public roads but sometimes it just gets the better of you. :drive:

I get to really find out how fast and how well the Torsen T2-R performs this Sunday at my next autocross. :D

[David Morton]

I will be following your posts on this one, my friend, as I am a big fan of the Torsen.

[Joe Walsh]

I too love the Torsen Differential, but have heard that it is not the best choice for a car that is drag raced. I've heard that if you drag race, you should stick to an Eaton Posi. I'm not sure that: drag racing + 4400 lb car + lots of HP + Torsen is a good equation...Any thoughts?

[metroplex]

I had a Detroit TrueTrac, which is a beefed up version of a Torsen T-2. The T-2R is basically a T-2 with clutch plates for better torque biasing (think of a Traction-Lok Torsen hybrid).

My TrueTrac spit out 3 of the side cap bolts due to shear probably from the stresses it was subjected at the ring-gear side of the carrier. I started feeling abnormal torque biasing where the axles felt "locked up" when making turns on slippery surfaces.

Upon closer examination (I tore the damn thing apart) I noticed why Mustang owners were grenading Torsens and TrueTracs left and right when using drag slicks or drag radials. The wall separating the pinion gears from the side gears were very thin. Excess driveline shock can result in something breaking...

I'm a former Torsen owner, I just converted to a Traction-Lok w/ the +1 clutch mod. In retrospect, if I had to do it all over again, I would have just gotten a Traction-Lok in the first place and saved me a lot of money in the long run.

How much did the T-2R cost in parts? $500? $600? They jacked up the price for the TrueTrac just recently. It went from $260 to $480 over a span of 3 years.

You can check out pics of my TrueTrac here
http://www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/TT.html

You can check my write-up for the Traction-Lok rebuild and install here
http://www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/tlok.html

The Torsen is a style of differential and if you bought a Torsen, it would have been made by Toyoda (if it's really new) or Zexel if it was old-stock. Prior to Zexel, Gleason made the Torsens. I know Torsens are preferred by autocrossers and off-roaders, but they can grenade at the track when subjected to intense driveline shock (manual trans, lots of torque, AND drag radials/slicks).

Also, the HMMWV uses the Torsen T-1. The Torsens in general are designed for light to medium duty applications (i.e. 2-5 Ton vehicles). When you get into heavy applications, 20 Tons to 70 Tons, the Torsen isn't good for anything. You will only find lockers, beveled open differentials, or viscous coupling (aka Traction-Lok).

I've seen Traction-Lok differentials where the spider gears are stripped. I've also seen Eaton clutch LSDs blown the **** up same with Auburns. When the latter 2 grenade, they literally grenade. One guy lost his $160 Ford Racing SVO girdle cover due to a grenaded differential.

Overall, I'd stay the heck away from Eaton and Auburn. They are overpriced clutch limited slip differentials. They're not any stronger than the stock Traction-Lok, and both Auburn and Eaton do not cover the warranty when you break them during racing. However they're marketed as bulletproof and good for use in racing applications. I know they're trying to cover their a$$es legally, but it's a shame they're trying to sell them in this manner.

For a daily driver/occaisonal race car I'd go with the stock T-lok with the +1 clutch mod (more clutch surface area).

For a pure autocrosser / daily driver, the Torsen is a good way to go. Tractech has just started selling 3 pinion TrueTracs that can handle more abuse and has better torque biasing. If you ask me, and it's just MHO, stick with your Traction-Lok in the long run. I have not seen the internals of the latest T-2 or T-2R's. It'd be nice to compare the 3-pinion Tractech with the latest T-2 or T-2R.

[cyclone03]

Good post metroplex,a good friend of mine always recomends Traction-loc's with 31 splines over everything for street strip use,the clutchs will wear out almost always before they brake,then rebuild and off you go.

[metroplex]

I agree. Most of the cases where the clutches burn out are when the drivers race their vehicles on a regular basis or hold down the throttle when they lose traction on 1 wheel. But rebuilding the clutches is cake.

It's better than sending your differential back to the manuf for a rebuild ($20 shipping, possibly manuf. fees), or getting a new differential ($400 easy).

A rebuild costs $60 for the kit and about 1 hour of your time.

[RoyLPita]

I had a Detroit TrueTrac, which is a beefed up version of a Torsen T-2. The T-2R is basically a T-2 with clutch plates for better torque biasing (think of a Traction-Lok Torsen hybrid).

My TrueTrac spit out 3 of the side cap bolts due to shear probably from the stresses it was subjected at the ring-gear side of the carrier. I started feeling abnormal torque biasing where the axles felt "locked up" when making turns on slippery surfaces.

Upon closer examination (I tore the damn thing apart) I noticed why Mustang owners were grenading Torsens and TrueTracs left and right when using drag slicks or drag radials. The wall separating the pinion gears from the side gears were very thin. Excess driveline shock can result in something breaking...

I'm a former Torsen owner, I just converted to a Traction-Lok w/ the +1 clutch mod. In retrospect, if I had to do it all over again, I would have just gotten a Traction-Lok in the first place and saved me a lot of money in the long run.

How much did the T-2R cost in parts? $500? $600? They jacked up the price for the TrueTrac just recently. It went from $260 to $480 over a span of 3 years.

You can check out pics of my TrueTrac here
http://www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/TT.html

You can check my write-up for the Traction-Lok rebuild and install here
http://www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/tlok.html

The Torsen is a style of differential and if you bought a Torsen, it would have been made by Toyoda (if it's really new) or Zexel if it was old-stock. Prior to Zexel, Gleason made the Torsens. I know Torsens are preferred by autocrossers and off-roaders, but they can grenade at the track when subjected to intense driveline shock (manual trans, lots of torque, AND drag radials/slicks).

Also, the HMMWV uses the Torsen T-1. The Torsens in general are designed for light to medium duty applications (i.e. 2-5 Ton vehicles). When you get into heavy applications, 20 Tons to 70 Tons, the Torsen isn't good for anything. You will only find lockers, beveled open differentials, or viscous coupling (aka Traction-Lok).

I've seen Traction-Lok differentials where the spider gears are stripped. I've also seen Eaton clutch LSDs blown the **** up same with Auburns. When the latter 2 grenade, they literally grenade. One guy lost his $160 Ford Racing SVO girdle cover due to a grenaded differential.

Overall, I'd stay the heck away from Eaton and Auburn. They are overpriced clutch limited slip differentials. They're not any stronger than the stock Traction-Lok, and both Auburn and Eaton do not cover the warranty when you break them during racing. However they're marketed as bulletproof and good for use in racing applications. I know they're trying to cover their a$$es legally, but it's a shame they're trying to sell them in this manner.

For a daily driver/occaisonal race car I'd go with the stock T-lok with the +1 clutch mod (more clutch surface area).

For a pure autocrosser / daily driver, the Torsen is a good way to go. Tractech has just started selling 3 pinion TrueTracs that can handle more abuse and has better torque biasing. If you ask me, and it's just MHO, stick with your Traction-Lok in the long run. I have not seen the internals of the latest T-2 or T-2R's. It'd be nice to compare the 3-pinion Tractech with the latest T-2 or T-2R.

The Ford Ranger FX4 level 2 4X4 uses a Torsen differential with a set of 4.10 gears.

[metroplex]

The Ford Ranger FX4 level 2 4X4 uses a Torsen differential with a set of 4.10 gears.

The Chevrolet SSR uses a Torsen T-2 w/ the automatic transmission option.
The HMMWV uses a Torsen T-1.

However, these are all LIGHT duty applications (less than 2 ton rated vehicles). A medium (2.5 ton +) or heavy application would not use a Torsen in any of its axles (2-8+), just FYI.

I've heard of drag racers grenading TrueTracs and Torsens one after another only in high torque and high driveline shock applications. The design allows for many weak spots, and if you look at my webpage you'll find a photo depicting how thin the wall is separating the pinion gears from the axle side gears. Under high driveline shock, the wall can crack and cause problems. When 3 of the 4 side cap bolts blew out on my TrueTrac (00 Vic), I experienced abnormal torque biasing that resulted in hairy conditions when making turns on slippery surfaces.

If I could go back 2 years, I would have avoided the TrueTrac altogether and just bought a brand new Ford Traction-Lok.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

I'm a former Torsen owner, I just converted to a Traction-Lok w/ the +1 clutch mod. In retrospect, if I had to do it all over again, I would have just gotten a Traction-Lok in the first place and saved me a lot of money in the long run.

How much did the T-2R cost in parts? $500? $600? They jacked up the price for the TrueTrac just recently. It went from $260 to $480 over a span of 3 years.

For a pure autocrosser / daily driver, the Torsen is a good way to go. Tractech has just started selling 3 pinion TrueTracs that can handle more abuse and has better torque biasing. If you ask me, and it's just MHO, stick with your Traction-Lok in the long run. I have not seen the internals of the latest T-2 or T-2R's. It'd be nice to compare the 3-pinion Tractech with the latest T-2 or T-2R.I came back today from a very satisfied day at the autocross!!! :banana2:

The Torsen is dated 1/18/05 although the website advertised it as a Zexel. It ran for $600. I took some simple picks of the differential when it was out of the box last Wednesday. I'll post them later if anyone is interested.

I am totally satisfied with the performance of the Torsen and the 3.73 gears today. I ran times in this order:

Morning runs.
60+ secs. Practice run
55+ secs.
52.598 secs.
52.493 secs.
51.575 secs. + 2 second penalty for hitting cone

Afternoon runs
53.185 secs + 2 second penalty for hitting cone
51.433 secs.
51.33 secs.
51.107 secs.
49.641 secs. still wondering if I hit a cone in the last turn. Really hoping I didn't. :confused: (Edit) They just posted the stats. No penalty!!! :woohoo:

I was so shocked to break 50 seconds that I forgot to look at the exact time. :(

The fastest time of the day was 41.0+ secs. I have been regularly 10-12 seconds behind the fastest car of the day. Today I was within 8 seconds, which makes me very happy. :burnout:

Either way, I believe it was money well spent and I had a great day at the track!!!

[metroplex]

Nice runs!

$600? Yep, they're about that expensive. The T-2Rs have extra clutch packs for more torque biasing and better axle "lockup". When you burn them out, you'll need to rebuild it or send it back for a rebuild. The T-2s are very similar to the TrueTracs, and the latest TrueTracs use 3 pinion setups (basically 6 pinion gears, 2 axle side gears). There's a lot of moving parts which means faster heat buildup, faster gear oil shearing, and more stresses. Just be thankful you have an automatic transmission - you might get away with drag radials or drag slicks but I would not try it on a regular basis.

I still wouldn't put a Torsen in my car, been there done that and it left a bad taste.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Here is a link to a guy that was taking pictures of the event. I'm happy to say there are quite a few pictures of my car on there.

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album174?page=22


Great event and fantastic pictures. Can't wait to do it again. The next two events will only be a day apart. There will be one on Friday the 27th and another one on Sunday the 29th. :woohoo: Anyone feel like joining me? I am taking the day off so I can make the Friday event. :D

Here are some pics of the Zexel Torsen T2-R

[metroplex]

Interesting pics. I wonder how many pinion sets there are ? It looks like 4!

It's also interesting to see that they're using 4 bolts on the ring gear side of the carrier, and didn't spread it out evenly but they did use beefier bolts.

[BK_GrandMarquis]

I will be following your posts on this one, my friend, as I am a big fan of the Torsen.
Just an update from another enjoyable day of autocross. My time from what I can remember of the day are consistently 8 seconds from the fastest time of the day. Fastest times were from a Corvette Z06 by a driving school instructor and a Go Cart/mini Formula type car. That's about a 2-4 second improvement over my previous events. I have the QA1 shocks at the max setting of 12 on the front and rear. This definitely help with the body roll. There is no wheel spin from a hard/sharp turn anymore. Actually I push it much harder now through the turn because I know the car can grip now. I had a couple of turns/slaloms where I was caught off guard when the rear was pushing harder (more grip) that I thought it would and almost fish tailed out of control. Good thing they tell you to "keep both hands on the steering wheel". :D Before the Torsen install, the car would spin it's wheels in a hard turn and end up slowing down because of this.

I got another event this Sunday and looking forward to it.
:burnout: :drive: :burn:

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Another day at Giant's Stadium autocrossing. :D

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album37?page=13

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album37?page=16

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album37?page=22

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album37?page=23

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album37?page=24

Tough, fast course with a couple of hairpin turns. The weather was great too. Unfortunately the next scheduled event is July 29. :( :bigcry:

[wesman]

Great thread, BK, very interested in this setup. Where did you get it?

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Great thread, BK, very interested in this setup. Where did you get it? Did you need to change axles or do they have a 28 spline?

I got the differential from here:

http://www.on-trackperformance.com/

I didn't need to change the axles, they run on the stock 28 spline. If you do get them, print out the installation instructions. Mine didn't come with any and they are just slightly different to install. The guys that I used have drag racing history and he seemed pretty knowledgeable but never saw this type of install before.

Here are some links:

http://www.torsen.com/files/Torsen%20Traction%20Differenti al%20Technical%20Sheet.pdf

http://www.torsen.com/files/Torsen%20T-2%20Technical%20Sheet.pdf

http://www.torsen.com/distributors/installFord.htm

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Another day at Giant's Stadium autocrossing. :D

Tough, fast course with a couple of hairpin turns. The weather was great too. Unfortunately the next scheduled event is July 29. :( :bigcry:
I posted some videos of the event on my SuperFord site.

http://www.superford.org/vehicles/registry/detail.php?id=2315&s=25913#content[/url][url="http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/registry/detail.php?id=2315&s=25913#content"] (http://www.superford.org/vehicles/registry/detail.php?id=2315&s=25913#content)

Take a peek. Maybe one or two of the Marauder guys could join me one day. It's a blast!!! :burnout: :drive: :burn:

[rocknrod]

Question .....We don't have Posi/Trac-Loc whatever ?

[BK_GrandMarquis]

Question .....We don't have Posi/Trac-Loc whatever ?

I'm not positive but Marauders should come with some sort of LSD/Posi. The Torsen T2-R is more road racing oriented. That's all.