Runs better at less than WOT

[Rkammer]

My MM is stock with 3.55 gears and has just the K&N cold air and SCT XCal2 with a custom tune. First gear winds up nice and tight at WOT but when it shifts into 2nd at about 46 MPH it seems to lay down. If I back off the throttle just slightly it will feel like it's accelorating harder than at WOT. This usually means a lean WOT throttle mixture in my experience but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this and how you cured it? Thanks. :confused:

[David Morton]

Mine goes to 50 or so and snaps yer neck good and hard with plenty of acceleration at WOT so no, I don't have any experience with this condition. :D

[Rider90]

My MM is stock with 3.55 gears and has just the K&N cold air and SCT XCal2 with a custom tune. First gear winds up nice and tight at WOT but when it shifts into 2nd at about 46 MPH it seems to lay down. If I back off the throttle just slightly it will feel like it's accelorating harder than at WOT. This usually means a lean WOT throttle mixture in my experience but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this and how you cured it? Thanks. :confused:

I have that feeling from the line. If I floor it, it seems like it takes just a tad longer to take off. If I ease into it, sometimes I can spin or chirp them and it launches great.

[Rkammer]

Mine's fine in 1st gear. It's just after it shifts into 2nd that it lays down unless I back off the throttle a little. :)

[Rider90]

Mine's fine in 1st gear. It's just after it shifts into 2nd that it lays down unless I back off the throttle a little. :)

Well good luck at getting it fixed :D Happy Motoring...

[DEFYANT]

My MM is stock with 3.55 gears and has just the K&N cold air and SCT XCal2 with a custom tune. First gear winds up nice and tight at WOT but when it shifts into 2nd at about 46 MPH it seems to lay down. If I back off the throttle just slightly it will feel like it's accelorating harder than at WOT. This usually means a lean WOT throttle mixture in my experience but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this and how you cured it? Thanks. :confused:
I had the same problem. i fixed it with the purchase of a Trilogy S/Cer.

One theory was at WOT the clutch in the altenator would disengage causing a low voltage condition. The low voltage would cause the electric fuel pump to run at less than peek performance.

I have not tested this theory. As far as I am concerned, consider this a "rumor".

Anyone else hear of this?

[Rkammer]

I had the same problem. i fixed it with the purchase of a Trilogy S/Cer.

One theory was at WOT the clutch in the altenator would disengage causing a low voltage condition. The low voltage would cause the electric fuel pump to run at less than peek performance.

I have not tested this theory. As far as I am concerned, consider this a "rumor".

Anyone else hear of this?
What's a Trilogy S/Cer? This theory makes sense if the fuel pump is running on the hairy edge of lean.

[DEFYANT]

What's a Trilogy S/Cer?
Trilogy Supercharger

Go to the Trilogy section under the Forums tab for more info. :)

[Marauderjack]

Mine does the same thing and nobody has tried to help me figure it out!!! :mad2:

Dennis said all of them do it but he didn't feel it like I do driving it all the time!! :(

Lido said for me to buy his program and it would be fixed.....almost did it until David at SCT said not to....he was going to work on it but that was a year ago.....STILL NO ANSWERS!!! :mad2:

I am like you....affraid it is a lean condition?? :confused:

If you get any answers please let me know what to do....if anything?? :argue:

Marauderjack :cool4:

[rayjay]

After my tune I have a similiar but slightly different situation. The car screams through 1 & 2, but seems to bog down after the shift to 3. The A/F mixture graph is good through out the rpm range. To me it feels like shes running rich for some reason once she gets to 3. I'm still learning to find the "sweet spot" when hitting 3. If I hit it right, whoa, hang on triple digits come up quick. Hoping the DR Cobra exhaust I have on order will help.

[SergntMac]

One theory was at WOT the clutch in the altenator would disengage causing a low voltage condition. The low voltage would cause the electric fuel pump to run at less than peek performance. I have not tested this theory. As far as I am concerned, consider this a "rumor". Anyone else hear of this?
Yes, and it's not a rumor. It's true.

I do not agree that this is what is taking place in Rkammer's complaint, but the symptoms would be very similar. So, suspect as it is, there's an easy fix that rules this out. Return the SCT Xcal2 to the tuner and have them turn the altenator on full time. If the symptoms disappear, you'll know for sure. If not, no harm will come of it.

[Smokie]

My MM is stock with 3.55 gears and has just the K&N cold air and SCT XCal2 with a custom tune. First gear winds up nice and tight at WOT but when it shifts into 2nd at about 46 MPH it seems to lay down. If I back off the throttle just slightly it will feel like it's accelorating harder than at WOT. This usually means a lean WOT throttle mixture in my experience but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this and how you cured it? Thanks. :confused:Ray, I have stock gears, stock tranny and T/C. When I purchased a custom tune from Dennis R. it corrected poor shifting quite well, my 1-2 shift was at 5900 rpms and it was snap your neck solid. Once it shifts your car is momenteraly out of the peak of the torque power band and this may be what you are feeling until your rpm's climb again.

Without datalogging or your car being on a dyno to measure torque curve and A/F ratio is a lot of speculation and I hate doing that, but I can provide you with the accumulated experience of 3 years on this forum and as an owner.

The K&N kit is far more likely to cause a rich condition than lean (unless you left something loose in the intake path), our cars, do not have a history of running lean, the tune you have from Dennis is very likely the same program I purchased from him and it does not run lean ever all the way to 6400 rpms.

My opinion is that your shift points may need some tweeking, at exactly what rpm's does your 1-2 shift take place? and more important what do they drop to right after the shift...the answer may lie there.

[Bluerauder]

If I back off the throttle just slightly it will feel like it's accelorating harder than at WOT.
I recall seeing a "drag strip" post about 7-8 months ago on this same subject. Can't remember who made the post ... but it indicated that 7/8's throttle seemed to pull harder and resulted in faster times and trap speeds.

Here's the link to an earlier comment 12/15/2004 by BradleyG (see post #3) !!

Better Response at 7/8 Throttle (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14700&highlight=7%2F8)

[RoyLPita]

I wonder how much is the retrofit kit to get rid of the clutch on the alternator?

[Rkammer]

Ray, I have stock gears, stock tranny and T/C. When I purchased a custom tune from Dennis R. it corrected poor shifting quite well, my 1-2 shift was at 5900 rpms and it was snap your neck solid. Once it shifts your car is momenteraly out of the peak of the torque power band and this may be what you are feeling until your rpm's climb again.

Without datalogging or your car being on a dyno to measure torque curve and A/F ratio is a lot of speculation and I hate doing that, but I can provide you with the accumulated experience of 3 years on this forum and as an owner.

The K&N kit is far more likely to cause a rich condition than lean (unless you left something loose in the intake path), our cars, do not have a history of running lean, the tune you have from Dennis is very likely the same program I purchased from him and it does not run lean ever all the way to 6400 rpms.

My opinion is that your shift points may need some tweeking, at exactly what rpm's does your 1-2 shift take place? and more important what do they drop to right after the shift...the answer may lie there.
I will be data logging as soon as I can find some time to take her out to my favorite "tuning place". As for shift points, the DR tune has the full throttle shift points at about 46 MPH for the 1-2 (about 6200 RPM on my tach) and about 86 MPH for the 2-3. Don't remember what it drops back to after the shift. I do notice that the DR tune also has the torque converter locking up in 2nd gear at 40 MPH (in WOT only) which make it go into lock-up as soon as the car shifts into 2nd. I don't know if I like this because the engine may be to low in RPM but I asked Dennis about it and he says that's the way the tune is supposed to be set up. I may try and remove this 2nd gear WOT lock up to see what happens (using Extreme Tune). It may be better to lock it up around 60-70 MPH after the engine revs a bit higher. Anyone else want to chime in here regarding this 2nd gear WOT lock up with the SCT tune? I'll continue to report on this thread what I find as there seems to be a few members that have/had this condition. :)

[Shaft333]

Could it be from the car going into an open loop mode at WOT?

My first reaction was that it would be the obvious case.
At WOT, some FI cars stop using the sensors and just go by a programmed map that may or may not be optimal. Back off the throttle, get back into a closed loop mode and "bango!" your motor is back on all fours.

[Rkammer]

Could it be from the car going into an open loop mode at WOT?

My first reaction was that it would be the obvious case.
At WOT, some FI cars stop using the sensors and just go by a programmed map that may or may not be optimal. Back off the throttle, get back into a closed loop mode and "bango!" your motor is back on all fours.
Good thought. Data logging will tell me more. Stay tuned.

[Smokie]

I will be data logging as soon as I can find some time to take her out to my favorite "tuning place". As for shift points, the DR tune has the full throttle shift points at about 46 MPH for the 1-2 (about 6200 RPM on my tach) and about 86 MPH for the 2-3. Don't remember what it drops back to after the shift. I do notice that the DR tune also has the torque converter locking up in 2nd gear at 40 MPH (in WOT only) which make it go into lock-up as soon as the car shifts into 2nd. I don't know if I like this because the engine may be to low in RPM but I asked Dennis about it and he says that's the way the tune is supposed to be set up. I may try and remove this 2nd gear WOT lock up to see what happens (using Extreme Tune). It may be better to lock it up around 60-70 MPH after the engine revs a bit higher. Anyone else want to chime in here regarding this 2nd gear WOT lock up with the SCT tune? I'll continue to report on this thread what I find as there seems to be a few members that have/had this condition. :)Ok Ray, lets focus on that 46 mph shift. If your number is accurate, you are shifting into 2nd at 5500 rpms, too low in my opinion because after the shift you are totally out of your power band.

3:55 rear axle
2:84 tranny first gear
28.5" tall OEM tires
46 mph= 5500 rpm's
50 mph= 5900 rpm's
52 mph= 6200 rpm's

I am focusing on your stated 46 mph at the shift, your rpms are too low if the number is accurate.:)

LINK (http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/mph_calculator.html)

[MENINBLK]

Have you tried changing your fuel filter ?
It only takes one bad tank of gas to make this filter restrictive.

[Rkammer]

Ok Ray, lets focus on that 46 mph shift. If your number is accurate, you are shifting into 2nd at 5500 rpms, too low in my opinion because after the shift you are totally out of your power band.

3:55 rear axle
2:84 tranny first gear
28.5" tall OEM tires
46 mph= 5500 rpm's
50 mph= 5900 rpm's
52 mph= 6200 rpm's

I am focusing on your stated 46 mph at the shift, your rpms are too low if the number is accurate.:)LINK (http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/mph_calculator.html)
Smokie, I observed the car shifting into 2nd at about 6200 RPM on my dash tach. I did't actually observe the speedometer but got the 46 MPH from the graph of the tune as viewed on SCTs "Extreme Tune" software. I'll check it when I go data logging today.

However, you may be missing a point with your 52 MPH = 6200 RPMs. That assumes the torque converter is locked up and there is no slippage. That's not the case during the 1-2 shift as the converter isn't locked yet. If the converter is causing a 10% slippage then the actual speed suring the 1-2 shift might be about 47 MPH. Don't know if 10% is an accurate estimate but will check both speed and RPM out later.

[Smokie]

.... will check both speed and RPM out later.
I hope the weather is better there than here.:)

[Todd]

The K&N kit is far more likely to cause a rich condition than lean (unless you left something loose in the intake path)
You may have that backwards.... More air without specific correction/compensation with more fuel will cause a lean condition.

Not saying a K&N can cause your car to run lean but the principal is there.


Or did I miss the boat on where you were going with that....??? (dont worry, it happens often)

[SergntMac]

More air without specific correction/compensation with more fuel will cause a lean condition. Not saying a K&N can cause your car to run lean but the principal is there.You are correct. If more air leaks in after the MAF processes it, the fuel charge will be lean, and you won't notice it right away. First, the 02 sensors will detect the lean burn and add more fuel, and it will go rich if the air leak is temporary, as it can be under the torque twist of the engine in a WOT pass, or a sudden downshift. Of course, this is the worst possible time to run lean too.

The knock sensors may also jump into the game, because they will detect and report the early stages of detonation you can't hear. Keep in mind that when you DO hear knock, you are already in some deep *****. I was looking at a 4.6 DOHC piston just this afternoon that looked just fine, until Randy showed me the evidence of long term detonation from running lean on a regular basis, even without running the engine hard.

It's what happens when someone tries to fool the system by running 91 instead of 93 octane every other tankful. You wouldn't see it without it being pointed out, but the piston top was eating away around the edge. When it gets thin enough, and can no longer support the top ring on the downstroke, the top of the piston comes off, sometimes in chunks around the edge, like a dry pie crust flakes off.

[Joe Walsh]

I wonder how much is the retrofit kit to get rid of the clutch on the alternator?

The clutched alternator is a one way mechanical clutch* that is designed to prevent belt 'chirp' when the engine shifts at high RPMs.
The clutch never disengages the alternator from being driven by the belt in a forward direction.

The alternator's charging function CAN be deactivated by a custom program/tune. (I think Lidio has, and can do this with his tune)

*kind of like the rear gear cluster/cassette on a 'ten speed' bicycle. You can drive it forward, but if you backpedal, it will freewheel.

[Smokie]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Smokie


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></I>
The K&N kit is far more likely to cause a rich condition than lean (unless you left something loose in the intake path), our cars, do not have a history of running lean, the tune you have from Dennis is very likely the same program I purchased from him and it does not run lean ever all the way to 6400 rpms.



You may have that backwards.... More air without specific correction/compensation with more fuel will cause a lean condition.

Not saying a K&N can cause your car to run lean but the principal is there.


Or did I miss the boat on where you were going with that....??? (dont worry, it happens often)I am not aware of any member that has installed any flavor of air intake kit that caused a documented lean condition, if you were referring to leaks after the MAF then sure you would go lean, but that applies to OEM intake also.

The only documented lean conditions that I am aware of, were members with S/C cars that were running high boost and the injectors/fuel pump or MAF were maxed out.

[BillyGman]

Hmmm, all is I can tell you is that before my Marauder was supercharged, as well as now that it is, I've never had that problem. The car has always run the strongest at WOT. And I've had computer chips from two different vendors here including Lidio. I'd go to Lidio with this problem if I were you.

[Mike Poore]

What's a Trilogy S/Cer? This theory makes sense if the fuel pump is running on the hairy edge of lean.
RAy, make an appointment with Dennis Reinhart and get that thing on the dyno. It seems to me, if you're having issues that may indicate anything other than optimal conditions, it could lead to detonation, which in a lean condition is disasterous in these motors. Dennis is a contribututing vendor on this site, and close enough to, perhaps, save you from yourself. ;)

[BillyGman]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></I>
The only documented lean conditions that I am aware of, were members with S/C cars that were running high boost and the injectors/fuel pump or MAF were maxed out.I think you've missed Todd's point. what he was saying is that if there's going to be any air/fuel ratio inbalance created by a less restrictive intake set-up, then it is NOT going to be a rich condition, as you've previously suggested. And I agree with that.

[Rkammer]

RAy, make an appointment with Dennis Reinhart and get that thing on the dyno. It seems to me, if you're having issues that may indicate anything other than optimal conditions, it could lead to detonation, which in a lean condition is disasterous in these motors. Dennis is a contribututing vendor on this site, and close enough to, perhaps, save you from yourself. ;)
I'm scheduled to visit Dennis R. for his dyno day next week. Before then, I'll do some data logging with my Live Link and I'll know then if the engine is running lean or not.

[SergntMac]

The clutched alternator is a one way mechanical clutch* that is designed to prevent belt 'chirp' when the engine shifts at high RPMs.
The clutch never disengages the alternator from being driven by the belt in a forward direction.

The alternator's charging function CAN be deactivated by a custom program/tune. (I think Lidio has, and can do this with his tune)

*kind of like the rear gear cluster/cassette on a 'ten speed' bicycle. You can drive it forward, but if you backpedal, it will freewheel.
I wont disagree with you. You must know something I have not yet learned.

My experience in this has come from owning two Marauders, one N/A and one S/C. My education started with my N/A Marauder in June of 02. Everytime I went WOT, or, deep into the throttle to pass someone, my voltage would drop into the 11s. At my first dynotune with Jerry W., I asked him about this and he went into the software and "turned the altenator on full time." That fixed it.

When I bought my second and S/C MM in June of 03, it did the same thing, and when Jerry W. tuned that MM, he did the same thing again. This time I got an interesting lecture on how this affects power, and how much more critical it is when S/Ced. He urged me to get a Kenny Bell Boost-a-pump, which operates on the principle of increasing fuel pump voltage under WOT to maintain pump pressure.

At my last dyno tune a month ago, after installing my built engine, we had to rebuild the EEC program due to my customization. Jerry VanDerinde, a Jerry W. student, started from SCT scratch, and along the process (which took 13 hours), I asked if he turned the altenator on full time under WOT. He sad "oh, let me get to that right now" and he did.

I don't know why anyone would deactivate an inactive altenator, that seems to be insurance that fuel pressure will drop and the EEC will pull timing and spark, resulting in a loss of power, perhaps worse. I would imagine it's better to turn the altenator on fiull time under WOT, to insure adequate power to the fuel system. Of course, I can be wrong, I only know what I've been told. If this isn't possible, and doesn't have merit, these folks have been having a lot of fun with me for a few years now.

I hope they enjoyed themselves.

[Blackened300a]

You guys are looking way too deep into this. I had this same exact problem 2 months ago after I installed a SCT tune from Reinhart. I called Dennis and he told me that it was a shift point adjustment. I sent my Xcal to him, He Made the adjustment, Sent it back and Problem Solved.

[BillyGman]

I know for a fact that the alternator on the Marauder in the stock form cuts out. The Trilogy kit replaces that mechanism by supplying a removal tool and and standard pulley, and before I installed the Trilogy supercharger on my car, I remember how that late at night when I'd be coming home from work at midnight on the highway, and I went at full throttle, i would always literally see the headlights dim, and the voltmeter would read 11 volts until two seconds AFTER a let off on the go pedal. it happened all the time. Once I installed the new pulley, that didn't happen anymore.

[SergntMac]

You guys are looking way too deep into this. I had this same exact problem 2 months ago after I installed a SCT tune from Reinhart. I called Dennis and he told me that it was a shift point adjustment. I sent my Xcal to him, He Made the adjustment, Sent it back and Problem Solved.
Dude, why did ya have to go and break the rules like this? Doncha know that real solutions are supposed to go in a PM? We only share the BS solutions here, keeping things confused keeps us going...

[Blackened300a]

Dude, why did ya have to go and break the rules like this? Doncha know that real solutions are supposed to go in a PM? We only share the BS solutions here, keeping things confused keeps us going...Oh ok Then a new set of muffler bearings and a adjustment of the Gaferated Slyrod are needed in order to get the power back in 2nd gear!

Hope that helped

[Dennis Reinhart]

Mine does the same thing and nobody has tried to help me figure it out!!! :mad2:

Dennis said all of them do it but he didn't feel it like I do driving it all the time!! :(

Lido said for me to buy his program and it would be fixed.....almost did it until David at SCT said not to....he was going to work on it but that was a year ago.....STILL NO ANSWERS!!! :mad2:

I am like you....affraid it is a lean condition?? :confused:

If you get any answers please let me know what to do....if anything?? :argue:

Marauderjack :cool4:
If you call me tomorrow I will help any way I can

[Smokie]

I think you've missed Todd's point. what he was saying is that if there's going to be any air/fuel ratio inbalance created by a less restrictive intake set-up, then it is NOT going to be a rich condition, as you've previously suggested. And I agree with that.No I didn't missed his point, I just have not seem any evidence of a single MM. owner that installed any kind of less restrictive intake set-up that resulted in a documented lean condition . On the other hand I know of several owners, myself included that installed a less restrictive intake set-up and wound up with a rich condition because the MAF overcompensated for the extra air.

I am not commenting on a theory, just documented facts. Granted I admit I have not read every single post since this forum was formed, so I may have missed that owner with the less restrictive intake set-up that told us he documented a lean condition after instaling it.

[Rider90]

Oh ok Then a new set of muffler bearings and a adjustment of the Gaferated Slyrod are needed in order to get the power back in 2nd gear!

Hope that helped

This guy needs to go back to school.

Anyone who is anyone knows that when you adjust the alignment of the Slyrod, the efficiency of your blinker fluid is compromised thus risking the failure of the semi-collapsable coolant injector system.

jeeeeesshh

[SergntMac]

This guy needs to go back to school.

Anyone who is anyone knows that when you adjust the alignment of the Slyrod, the efficiency of your blinker fluid is compromised thus risking the failure of the semi-collapsable coolant injector system.

jeeeeesshhHold on a sec, Jason, he said "Gaferated Slyrod" and we all know (up) that he meant to say "Galled Sylirod".

Change this syntax, can you hear him now?

[Rider90]

Hold on a sec, Jason, he said "Gaferated Slyrod" and we all know (up) that he meant to say "Galled Sylirod".

Change this syntax, can you hear him now?

Ohh ok, no I got it now. Thank you Mac. Do keep in mind though when the RPM's of the Galled Sylirod reach 2,200 they will heat up and transfer that heat onto the valve-lock turnbuckle clamp in turn bringing the oil ring nut to it's melting point. This has left me stranded a time or two, not one of those things I want to discuss...

[Dennis Reinhart]

I am not sure this is alternator related, the best way to determine the issue is test drive the car and if you can not determine the issue data log the WOT run, I have never seen a Marauder run lean with any after market CAK.

I have seen them run rich, but I am not saying its not possible either, and even in those cases I have not driven a car that lay-ed down because it was slightly rich as being described here, normally its in the shift lock transmission shift schedule, with out driving the car, I have no way to guess, and a Dyno tune will not fix a shift schedule problem, it can verify proper AF at WOT.

I am not sure what the issue is but I am sure it can be fixed. I am constantly trying to improve the tunes on our Marauders just as any SCT dealer does. On N/A Marauders we can shut the alt off at WOT but it automatically comes back on at a preset min voltage level we can adjust, if you have a SC Marauder the alternator stays on all the time, for obvious reasons.

[Blackened300a]

Ohh ok, no I got it now. Thank you Mac. Do keep in mind though when the RPM's of the Galled Sylirod reach 2,200 they will heat up and transfer that heat onto the valve-lock turnbuckle clamp in turn bringing the oil ring nut to it's melting point. This has left me stranded a time or two, not one of those things I want to discuss...
Well Im not sure what Issue Marauder you guys have but I have a Gaferated Slyrod in mine and there is a 14 step adjustment process in the service manual. Without the adjustment it can cause a major breakdown to the tire on the Flywheel which as we all know like our regular tires, Must have the air changed for the different seasons. Dont forget the Muffler bearings!! All Jap Crap Ricer Mufflers dont have the bearings installed, and you see how they sound!

[TooManyFords]

I call this....

BLACKENED DANCE!
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661

[Rider90]

LMAO @ Blackened & John :laugh:

[Krytin]

My MM is stock with 3.55 gears and has just the K&N cold air and SCT XCal2 with a custom tune. First gear winds up nice and tight at WOT but when it shifts into 2nd at about 46 MPH it seems to lay down. If I back off the throttle just slightly it will feel like it's accelorating harder than at WOT. This usually means a lean WOT throttle mixture in my experience but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this and how you cured it? Thanks. :confused:Yes - Exactly the same phenom. No cure yet - just don't mat it very often!

[BillyGman]

No I didn't missed his point, I just have not seem any evidence of a single MM. owner that installed any kind of less restrictive intake set-up that resulted in a documented lean condition . On the other hand I know of several owners, myself included that installed a less restrictive intake set-up and wound up with a rich condition because the MAF overcompensated for the extra air.

I am not commenting on a theory, just documented facts. Granted I admit I have not read every single post since this forum was formed, so I may have missed that owner with the less restrictive intake set-up that told us he documented a lean condition after instaling it.Okay Javier. I see your point now that you've gone into more detail. One thing comes to mind though....I really wonder how many MM owners who have changed their filter and intake tube set-ups have had air/fuel ratio tests performed by someone with a tailpipe sensor rather than via the accurate measuring method (which is via a hole bored in the exhaust BEFORE the cats).

I say that, because I have heard of a number of MM owners getting dyno tunes as well as AFR tests performed by someone using a tailpipe sensor, and that just isn't accurate taking AFR reading AFTER the cats. And if a percentage of the people you're refering to had their's taken with that inferior method, then we cannot be convinced that their engines were running rich or lean. it just isn't conclusive. Therefore I don't believe that this is even worth debating over. I do thank you for your input though.

[sfsv]

:rolleyes: If I can recall correctly the MM does not have a clutch on the altenator like the 04-05 CVPI with the 200 watt alt. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[BillyGman]

:rolleyes: If I can recall correctly the MM does not have a clutch on the altenator like the 04-05 CVPI with the 200 watt alt. Please correct me if I am wrong.Oh yes it does. Atleast some of them do anyway. I removed the one on mine myself. I have an 03 Marauder BTW.

[Rkammer]

Mine has the clutch too. It's a very late 2003.

[Mike Poore]

Mine has the clutch too. It's a very late 2003.
Have fun at Dennis' shop. Say HI! :D to Blondie for me.

I wish I could be there to watch.

Um, you have to take your own buttermilk, I understand. ;)

[Marauderjack]

I think Dennis has a good point in that I have always thought the TC was partially locking causing a "Bog Like" condition?? When backing out of the throttle a half inch or so it almost feels like it releases the engine as it jumps 400-500 RPM's and then you can go back to WOT with good acceleration....WEIRD!! :censor:

Please keep in mind that if you start from a stand still....wind out 1st gear and catch second......the bog is not there!!?? :confused: It only seems to happen when downshifting to 2nd from a higher gear?? :argue:

BTW, I have looked at the alternator and it does not enter into this scenario. When it cuts out the voltage drops but doesn't seem to have any effect on this "Bog" at all. :help:

Maybe Jerry W. can shed some light on this??

Marauderjack :o

[Rkammer]

BTW, I have looked at the alternator and it does not enter into this scenario. When it cuts out the voltage drops but doesn't seem to have any effect on this "Bog" at all. :help:

Maybe Jerry W. can shed some light on this??

Marauderjack :o
When the voltage drops (at that very moment) have you looked at spark retard, fuel pressure, or O2 voltages to see if the engine has gone lean and retarded timing? :confused:

[Rider90]

:rolleyes: If I can recall correctly the MM does not have a clutch on the altenator like the 04-05 CVPI with the 200 watt alt. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Although it seems we have a 135-amp alternator.
source (http://www.wai-wetherill.com/products/partimage.cfm?wai_num=1-2433-31FD-2)

[SergntMac]

When the voltage drops (at that very moment) have you looked at spark retard, fuel pressure, or O2 voltages to see if the engine has gone lean and retarded timing? :confused:
It's quite possible with live data reads and logging. Now that this technology is available in our newest of hand help programmers, playing engine detective is very useful.

Over the last two years I've been using a Davis CarChip EX to record this data for later transfer to a computer. It will record and store up to 300 hours of driving. I'm using a ScanGuage right now, which delivers instant reads refreshed 20x a second. Yeppers, it's possible, but probably safer to have a co-pilot do the reading.

[Blackened300a]

I call this....

BLACKENED DANCE!
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/image.php?u=3499&dateline=1117457661
It took me a long time to learn how to dance and play the drums like that so Its only fair I have a dance named after me!