How good is the stock exhaust?

[SideshowBob]

I'm looking at doing the tune and cold air kit for my '04 MM, and I'm wondering how good (or bad) is the stock exhaust?

[David Morton]

It's good. Good enough for my tastes, not too loud, just enough throaty sound.

The cold air kits will make it a lot louder coming from the engine compartment, from what I hear.

Get the tune first and see how you like it. You may decide to get a supercharger or turbo and want to wait on the other air management items. But a tuner is a definite "go" in almost any mod scheme. Read on, grasshopper. When you can take the pebble from BillyGmans hand, then you will be ready.

:lol:

[Smokie]

I'm looking at doing the tune and cold air kit for my '04 MM, and I'm wondering how good (or bad) is the stock exhaust?A lot of members are making very good power numbers with the stock exhaust, it's not really were you would start if your goals are modest.

You would make a change if you are looking for a different sound or look, If you are considering force induction you would benefit with a change that starts at the cast iron manifold, this is the biggest bottleneck.

Changing only mufflers would change the sound; don't expect to feel a performance difference.

[RF Overlord]

^^^what David Morton and Smokie said^^^

Unless you go for the full Kooks or Reinhart exhaust, and they're not inexpensive, you won't see much of a power improvement. There are a number of mods you can do that are a bigger bang for the buck on a N/A car. On the performance side you have: tune, 4.10 gears, CAI, underdrive pulleys, and intake spacer...then there are some nice handling mods, too: Z&M or Metco rear control arms, Addco sway bar upgrades, stainless steel brake lines...I'm sure I've forgotten a few, but you get the idea.

Except in case of Barry's car (CRUZTAKER), which is a freak unto itself :eek: :D , the full exhaust systems make a bigger difference when you install a power-adder such as a supercharger or turbo, or if you add nitrous.

[rayjay]

My car is doing very nicely with CAI, intake spacer and dyno tune. I'm awaiting my DR Cobra Exhaust to help with the lower end.

[SideshowBob]

It's good. Good enough for my tastes, not too loud, just enough throaty sound.

The cold air kits will make it a lot louder coming from the engine compartment, from what I hear.

Get the tune first and see how you like it. You may decide to get a supercharger or turbo and want to wait on the other air management items. But a tuner is a definite "go" in almost any mod scheme. Read on, grasshopper. When you can take the pebble from BillyGmans hand, then you will be ready.

:lol:


This brings up a second question: With no other performance mods but the tune, will the cold air make enough difference to justify the expense? In other words, how good (or bad) is the stock air intake?

[rayjay]

This brings up a second question: With no other performance mods but the tune, will the cold air make enough difference to justify the expense? In other words, how good (or bad) is the stock air intake?
Yes they are worth it. Do a search here and you will find all the numbers for each. With a dynotune, PHP/JLT hybrid intake and PHP spacer, on a hot day, my 04 made 272.4hp and 295ft#s tq. That is a significant improvement over stock. Next up for me is the DR Cobra exhaust which is being fabricated now. Future will be UDPs soon and maybe 4.10s, next year. I will have to redyno, but should be in the 300hp at the wheels ballpark figure.:D

[jstevens]

The CAI will not pin you to the seat. There is a seat of the pants gain just nothing huge. The best part is the sound and bling factor.
It is worth the money. Even for the K & N, which wasn't cheap, I'd do it again.

I found the 4.10's made a huge difference. It can really come off the light now with some power.

[fastblackmerc]

The CAI will not pin you to the seat. There is a seat of the pants gain just nothing huge. The best part is the sound and bling factor.
It is worth the money. Even for the K & N, which wasn't cheap, I'd do it again.

I found the 4.10's made a huge difference. It can really come off the light now with some power.
Try the following mods before any exhaust work.

4:10's
JLT or K&N intake (I chose the JLT because of the cost)
underdrive pulleys
colder spark pugs
180 thermostat
tune for one of the vendors

The colder stat & plugs are a questionable HP adder but they are cheap to purchase & install yourself. In fact if your handy with tools you can do all the above with the exception of the the 4:10's, unless you know what you doing.

I did the above and got 280.6 HP & 310 TQ.

[SergntMac]

With no other performance mods but the tune, will the cold air make enough difference to justify the expense? In other words, how good (or bad) is the stock air intake? The following comments are based on my personal and first hand testing and obsevation.

IMHO, the OEM induction path on the MM is the best ever produced by FMC. It actually attemps to gather cold air from outside the engine bay, and exclude warmer engine bay air. However, this path is blocked by the driver's side headlight pod, and the opening in the core support isn't desireable. Nonetheless, what was developed and produced by FMC for our MM, is now standard equipment on '04 Panther based products. It's the closest to a true cold air kit that I've seen.

Of the aftermarket kits, again, IMHO, the PHP kit does the best of trying to gather that same cold air, and as best it can shield away hotter engine bay air, but it still gets mixed. The upside here, is that it gets more air to the MAF than the OEM air box, and the downside is that it's warmer air. This, sadly, is the trade-off.

IMHO, the benefit of the JLT kit, is that it smooths out the interior of the induction path for better turbine dynamics over the OEM "zip" tube, and it provides more possibilities for greater volume. But again, this is affected by the forward movement of the vehicle, and it's again, warmer air.

I believe the best aftermarket product I've seen is the bellows from Metco. This replaces the OEM zip tube with a smoother induction path, provides the possibility for greater air volume, fits the OEM air box and MAF in their OEM location, and it looks great. Soon, I hope to marry the Metco bellows to the PHP kit on SlowPoke's MM, and hopefully see what (if any) improvement is born. He's recently SCT tuned by Jerry VanDerlinde at Sutton Ford, and a candidate for a realistic "before and after" dyno test. We'll see?

I've not had any contact with the K&N kit, but IMHO, it also blends warmer engine bay air with what cold air is available from outside the engine bay. I understand it produces about the same results as the other combinations, and it's the only kit that is a complete throttle body to core support resolution in one box. But, like I pointed out earlier, none of these kits are effective at excluding warmer engine bay air, therefore, they are not true "cold air induction" solutions. However, the bottom line is "bang for the buck" and if you can buy 10-12 RWHP and 10-12 RWTQ for under 300 buck, it's a good deal.

Dennis mentioned in another post here that he's working on a solution that will beat them all hands down. I just finished testing his "power pipe" bellows, it's aluminum, conforms to the hood liner, and I had it ceramic coated to control heat transfer too. It looks great, take a peek?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7120&cat=500&page=1

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7121&cat=500&page=1

Now, if Dennis decides to build this kit, it will get married to the PHP box, and I predict outstanding performance. However, as it produces the most performance gain we have seen to date, it's also going to be the most expensive. This power pipe is a beauty, and beauty isn't cheap. For you serious racers, the benefits should be obvious.

[MikesMerc]

This brings up a second question: With no other performance mods but the tune, will the cold air make enough difference to justify the expense? In other words, how good (or bad) is the stock air intake?

In a nutshell, unless you mod the motor or add a power adder, the stock intake tract is just fine. The only reason to add a CAI kit on a stock motor is for the bling and sound factor.

Ford has been using CAI technology since 1986 when the mustang went EFI. Even back then the airbox was sealed off from the engine bay and drew air in from the fender well. The only issue was the somewhat restrictive tubing that was in place if you needed more cfm into the motor due to mods like heads, blower, etc.

Over the years many vendors have made custom tubing to improve on that design. Here is the "original" Power Pipe from Anderson Ford Motorsport: http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/17918/

Unless you have a reason to need the extra air flow, the stock set up does great. So if i were picking a CAI for a stock motor, I'd go with the one that looks best.

[txmarauder]

Sergntmac, I mentioned that to to Dennis a few weeks ago in his quest to make a cai kit and asked him to sell me one as i am engineering my own true cold air kit and he has yet to respond. The thread is http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19535&page=2&pp=15&highlight=jlt
I hope he will sell me one or let me know who his vendor is so i can get one. I think that tube will give the stock appearence everyone wants.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I'm looking at doing the tune and cold air kit for my '04 MM, and I'm wondering how good (or bad) is the stock exhaust?
It's very good I like the way it sounds but if you add the x pipe it does improve the sound as well as a RWHP gain. I have tried both. I installed Kooks on my car and I ran them top the stock mufflers its deep throatier sound,

[RF Overlord]

I think that tube will give the stock appearence everyone wants.I agree with tx...I like the looks and if it provides even a modest gain, I'll be all over it...

Dennis, will your intake tube work with the stock airbox?

[MENINBLK]

Dennis, will your intake tube work with the stock airbox?

Talk about hijacking threads... :nono:
:hijack:

[SergntMac]

I agree with tx...I like the looks and if it provides even a modest gain, I'll be all over it...Dennis, will your intake tube work with the stock airbox? If I may impose my opinion here, probably not.

Dennis is trying to mate his induction pipe to the PHP kit, for the best combination ever. The OEM air box is not ion his list of parts for this improvement at the present time. Dennis has the copyright to reproduce the PHP induction kit, which replaces the OEM air box, and he wants to produce the best air path possible for the MM, throttle body to cold air supply. I may be speaking out of turn, but I have tested his bellows, and it is a second coming of a "power pipe", and for our Marauders.

This is just an idea which needs more development time. If anyone can make it work, Dennis will. If it does not produce remarkable performance, it will not be available. This crap takes time, let's be patient, K? My next dynotune on this project is scheduled for 7/26/05. We shall see, eh?

[Smokie]

Dennis is trying to mate his induction pipe to the PHP kit, for the best combination ever... We shall see, eh?Sarge I am very interested in what you are discussing, if it's ever developed, will it fit in this set-up?

MY CAR (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7124&size=big&cat=500&page=1)

[txmarauder]

HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. DR responded right after me and still did not address my question. DR did i do something to you, if so let me know what so i can appologize. I am not trying to steal your idea, I am NOT considering ANYTHING CLOSE to the PHP box. Let me know. Thanks
Greg

[SideshowBob]

Hmmmm... It's beginning to look like all I really need at this time is the tune (I'm thinking Xcelerator) and maybe a K&N filter for my stock air box. While I'd love to go the whole nine yards and add a supercharger, headers,pipes, etc., Victory motorcycles has just announced that their 2006 Kingpin will have the 100 inch engine and 6-speed tranny, and my trade-in plus the cost of a supercharger would get me a brand new bike. But then again, one lucky lotto ticket and I can have both!

[MikesMerc]

Dennis has the copyright to reproduce the PHP induction kit, which replaces the OEM air box, and he wants to produce the best air path possible for the MM, throttle body to cold air supply. I may be speaking out of turn, but I have tested his bellows, and it is a second coming of a "power pipe", and for our Marauders.


If this is true, then he'll sell a bunch of them on the looks alone. But anyone with moddest modifications will enjoy the power as well.

Keep us posted!

[SergntMac]

Sarge I am very interested in what you are discussing, if it's ever developed, will it fit in this set-up? MY CAR (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7124&size=big&cat=500&page=1) This is what we're working on now, Javier.

Keep us posted! Will do.