Newer Cam Questions

[Big House]

Has anyone gone the route of swapping in a set of more aggressive cams and springs as a route to more power without the cost of supercharging and I know this is a dumb question but I was on Comp cams web cite and their cams for our engines list for 1400 and some change. Is that for a set of four or is that per set of two?

Also how much power can be derived from a more aggressive grind? I am an accountant by trade so please don't hit me with the super complicated ratios and lift duration equations. Thanks.

[Haggis]

Has anyone gone the route of swapping in a set of more aggressive cams and springs as a route to more power without the cost of supercharging and I know this is a dumb question but I was on Comp cams web cite and their cams for our engines list for 1400 and some change. Is that for a set of four or is that per set of two?

Also how much power can be derived from a more aggressive grind? I am an accountant by trade so please don't hit me with the super complicated ratios and lift duration equations. Thanks.
The only person that I know of that has touched the internals is Mac, send him a PM or maybe he will see this thread and respond.



I am an accountant by trade...
Your too big to be an accountant. :eek:

[snowbird]

Has anyone gone the route of swapping in a set of more aggressive cams and springs as a route to more power without the cost of supercharging and I know this is a dumb question but I was on Comp cams web cite and their cams for our engines list for 1400 and some change. Is that for a set of four or is that per set of two?

Also how much power can be derived from a more aggressive grind? I am an accountant by trade so please don't hit me with the super complicated ratios and lift duration equations. Thanks.
The 1400$ and change is for the 4 cams but you need springs that will bring it to over 2Ks excluding install. There's a 20 to 25 hp and 10 to 15 tq to gain higher in the rpm range and a loss in the lower one; versus; the cost and install issue, risking the integrity of the engine and driveability.

The Marauder have 3 problems: 1- It's weight and lack of torque, 2- It's weight and lack of torque, 3- It's weight and lack of torque. To change the cams will just amplify this. So i guess people will answer it's a better solution in a lighter and manual transmission vehicule.

[thePunisher]

thats why you call cam motion and have a set of cams custom made...specifically to help in this area...off the shelf cams usually suck anyway...and custom cams arent much more money.....

[Tinaree]

Those cams were about $1200 in Jegs the last time I looked.

They may or may not get you some gains, but properly indexing the cams will insure peak power. So if your cams are off, and you have them indexed when you replace them, you could make more power than advertised; likewise, if they are dead on and you install new ones out of whack, you could lose. Or anywhere in between, maybe even just breaking even.

FWIW, the 96-97 4V has a pretty aggressive grind already (compared to ours) but they make their power up top. You probably want to gain low and midrange, which a 4V engine has trouble doing. They breathe so well. Long tube headers would probably give you better gains than changing cams.

[Fourth Horseman]

Steeda (http://www.steeda.com/store/-catalog/FRdohcHighLiftcamKit.htm) makes a set that I think are compatible with our engines, also... $1600.

[rayjay]

Fourth Horseman, thanks for the link. I don't need the cams, but the associated link to the Steeda oil seperator is appreciated. I cleaned my TB last weekend. No oil in the tube, but the TB butterflys were filthy. The seperator is cheap and I can not think of anything else that would cause the mess but the PCV.

[FordNut]

The Ford FR500 cam kit includes all 4 cams, all new springs and all new valves. Cost is about $1300 (best deal around if you hunt awhile). Installation cost is about $1000 if the engine is in the car. Unless you're gonna have the engine apart for a buildup anyway, it's just not worth it.

[Fourth Horseman]

Fourth Horseman, thanks for the link. I don't need the cams, but the associated link to the Steeda oil seperator is appreciated. I cleaned my TB last weekend. No oil in the tube, but the TB butterflys were filthy. The seperator is cheap and I can not think of anything else that would cause the mess but the PCV.

I think there was a thread about that very part a while back. Let us know how you like it.

EDIT: I think this (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14964&highlight=oil+seperator) was the thread about it.

[SergntMac]

Short answer...Cams = No, on a stock engine. Remember, every mod has it's benefits, and it's drawbacks.

When I built my engine last winter, Randy Crowley and I checked all specs for wear and tear. After 22K of supercharged abuse, everything cam/valve related was well within OEM specs, Hell, it looked new. During reassembly, a few of the valve spring seats needed to be shimmed into a correct fit, but it's a rough cast head (shrug), what are you going to do. That proceedure was probably more performance efficient than anything else done to the heads. Other than port matching and a ver mild three angle valve seat clean up, the heads and valve/cam train are all OEM and meet stock specs.

When debating replacing cams with a more aggrerssive profile, several issues need to be thought out. Driveability first on the list, and performance gains vs. costs next. Install money wasn't an issue, it was a freebie since the engine was out anyway. But, in Randy's professional opinion, he made it very clear that that the OEM cams are more than well suited for their task, and it would be hard to improve upon them. Besides, adding cams without head work, is stupid.

The aftermarked companies, like Comp Cams (which he favors) have to get rather radical to beat the OEM grind. Moreover, the most you could expect in gains, would be likewise HP and TQ gains, about 20-25 each. These are good numbers, mind you, but if you're not building an engine, the install labor must be considered, and that pushes mod cost close to 2500 bucks. So, would you pay 100 bucks for one HP or one pound of torque at the rear wheels? It's your money, but again, adding cams without headwork is stupid, so, add another grand to that anyway?

Don't overlook the drivability issues. Perky cams and flowing heads produce power, but the power can get twitchy in casual driving. Picking up 25 RWTQ between 2000 and 4000 RPM is tempting, but if you want more torque to move the car faster, it's easier to make the car lighter...IMHO.

Wouldn't cost you a nickle to pull out all the soundproofing, rear seats, door panels, trunk matting, stereo system, and so on. Triming a 1000 pounds from the car is a piece of cake, and she'll scream at the low end (if you got traction), and so will everyone else in your family.

If you want to retain the luxo-barge features you bought this car for, cams = no. Just my .02C...

BTW...The FR500 cams require new valves, springs, keepers and keys, and so on. The FRP kit is complete with everything you need, FRP p/n M-6550-T46, 1695.00. The matching FR500 DOHC heads are p/n M6049-T46 for the passenger head and M-6050-T46 for the driver's head, 795.00 each. Adding all of it in your dream build will add just over 4K to the build cost, and will deliver a whopping 60 RWHP (with headers). Once again, cams = no, for your average streetable family oriented MM.

[gohogs]

Sarg....you the man! I don't post much on the site, but you consistently make sense. Hopefully, some day I'll have the oportunity to meet you in person instead of just listening to the oracle from afar!

[Warpath]

...Wouldn't cost you a nickle to pull out all the soundproofing, rear seats, door panels, trunk matting, stereo system, and so on. Triming a 1000 pounds from the car is a piece of cake, and she'll scream at the low end (if you got traction), and so will everyone else in your family.
...

The fam would probably start screaming before you even start driving with no seats in the rear.

[Joe Walsh]

I bought a set of Crower 'Baja Beast' DOHC cams for my forged 5.0 engine build-up. I got them from Summit for $990/ set of 4.
You won't get that price anymore...more like $1300 now.
I also got a matching set of springs/retainers and a set of +1mm oversized SS valves. The heads had some mild port work done as well.
I know you're thinking that I've killed my low end torque, BUT...the Baja Beast Cams are made for HEAVY vehicles and don't add a lot of extra duration...mainly more lift.
Plus I've added 24 cubic inches (305cid with the big bore/94mm) so I can "have my cake and eat it too".....I just can't afford any milk with my cake... :lol:

I agree with what others have said...If you are not going to rebuild the engine, the cost of a set of cams (springs are not absolutely needed with some milder aftermarket grinds) is way to high for the HP gains.

Cost for FOUR cams is one problem with a fancy DOHC V8! :(

[Tinaree]

Fourth Horseman, thanks for the link. I don't need the cams, but the associated link to the Steeda oil seperator is appreciated. I cleaned my TB last weekend. No oil in the tube, but the TB butterflys were filthy. The seperator is cheap and I can not think of anything else that would cause the mess but the PCV.
Once that separator gets filled to a certain level it doesn't do anything. You'll need to drain it regularly.