View Full Version : Took her in for the infamous "blue smoke" issue
Dropped the MM off at the dealership first thing this morning for the infamous "blue smoke on startup" issue.
I know this is a hot topic, so I will do my best to keep you updated with what my dealer says, what they find out, anything that is done to the vehicle, and will describe any pre- and post- follow-up diagnostics they run.
Shora
08-08-2005, 10:26 AM
This will be news that I need!
Here's the background:
2003 300B, daily driver, bone stock, acquired July 2 years ago, 18,600 miles on the odometer. Noticed the blue smoke on startup some time ago but it only seemed to do it once in a while. Lately, it has been doing it every morning after cranking it to go to work at 7:30am. It would do the same thing when leaving from work at 4:30pm each day.
Letting it idle a minute or 2 before shutting it down (as some here have suggested) had no effect. Tapping the throttle before shutting it down had no effect.
I have experienced none of the "tapping" noise others have heard. My issue is just blue smoke on cold startups.
MainEngDwarf
08-08-2005, 02:25 PM
Mine goes in the day after tommorrow. It seems that oil has been backing up the PCV tube(it was full of oil). Ford has known about this problem but hasn't put the info out. It seems Ford has a redesigned valve cover. The parts are finally in and the dealer will replace the valve cover and PCV valve on wednesday. I'll keep you informed(hope this works).
Dennis Reinhart
08-08-2005, 02:28 PM
Dropped the MM off at the dealership first thing this morning for the infamous "blue smoke on startup" issue.
I know this is a hot topic, so I will do my best to keep you updated with what my dealer says, what they find out, anything that is done to the vehicle, and will describe any pre- and post- follow-up diagnostics they run.
If its a A model its the drivers side head
MarauderMark
08-08-2005, 02:31 PM
If its a A model its the drivers side head
Yepp!Thats about the jith of it..
CRUZTAKER
08-08-2005, 04:57 PM
Mine started to blow smoke on startup a few months back....kinda keeps the tick off my mind.:shake:
MENINBLK
08-08-2005, 05:28 PM
Mine goes in the day after tommorrow. It seems that oil has been backing up the PCV tube(it was full of oil). Ford has known about this problem but hasn't put the info out. It seems Ford has a redesigned valve cover. The parts are finally in and the dealer will replace the valve cover and PCV valve on wednesday. I'll keep you informed(hope this works).
I purchased the Steeda Oil Separater just for this.
I will be installing it with pics, hopefully this weekend...
BTW, I don't have any Blue Smoke @ 37,000 miles.
SergntMac
08-08-2005, 05:33 PM
I purchased the Steeda Oil Separater just for this.
I will be installing it with pics, hopefully this weekend...
BTW, I don't have any Blue Smoke @ 37,000 miles. So, why are you buying the Steeda oil separator? If you don't have any "blue smoke" to address, what does this mod do for you?
MENINBLK
08-08-2005, 05:33 PM
So, why are your buying the Steeda separator? If you don't have any "blue smoke" to address, what does this mod do for you?
Eliminates PRE-IGNITION.
SergntMac
08-08-2005, 05:38 PM
Eliminates PRE-IGNITION. This is new to me, please explain more about it? Pre-ignition? What does this sound/feel like?
Tinaree
08-09-2005, 11:40 AM
If its a A model its the drivers side head
Ours is mostly the passenger side exhaust. Very little on the driver's side. Is this still the same problem?
wesman
08-09-2005, 12:25 PM
This is new to me, please explain more about it? Pre-ignition? What does this sound/feel like?
Best article I've read on the subject here:
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/Page_6.php
"An engine can live with detonation occurring for considerable periods of time, relatively speaking. There are no engines that will live for any period of time when pre-ignition occurs."
start back at page 1 to get the whole story.
Alan, which dealer are you taking your car to?
SergntMac
08-09-2005, 01:39 PM
Best article I've read on the subject here:
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/Page_6.php
I agree, an excellent article on the whole combustion process, thank you.
However, I still do not see any connection between the Steeda oil separator, and pre-ignition/detonation. How do they interact?
Well kids…here’s the update I promised you from the invoice from
Northwood Lincoln Mercury in Spring, TX
2003 Mercury Marauder
Production 02/07/2003
Sold 07/21/2003
8/8/05
Action: HT (whatever the hell that is!)
Elapsed time: 11 minutes
8/9/05
Action: End
Elapsed time: 9 minutes
Total: 20 minutes
Concern: Customer states vehicle on cold starts has blue smoke
Cause: X
Correction: Talked to Leo
Comment: Talked to Hotline. Said normal on cold start. 5H1C9003
Tech notes: Check for oil smoke on cold start. Called Hotline. Talked to Leo. He said smoking on cold start is normal. Could start oil consumption test. 5H1C9003
What’s the bottom line?
They had it all day Monday and all day Tuesday. Did nothing to the car. They called someone named Leo on some “Hotline” for a total of 20 minutes spread over 2 days and was advised that it was normal. They told me to not do anything to the car but put gas in it and drive it. Since I had recently had the oil changed, at that dealership a few hundred miles ago, they said to “drive it 1000 miles and bring it back in”. “We are going to do an oil consumption test.”
Me: “It’s not a daily driver anymore. Do you realize how long it will take me to put 1000 miles on it? Be that as it may, I will do as you have instructed and will bring it back when I have put 1000 miles on it. I would point out that if oil is leaking past the valve seals (a VERY common problem that others have experienced)…you probably won’t see any consumption since we’re talking a small amount being burned on startup.”
What else did I get?
A nice nick and scrape through the paint on my rear passenger door above the handle. Through the paint…down to the primer. Nice little nick about the size of the end of a Bic pen cap followed by a nice scrape about an inch long. Looks sort of like orange peel. Pointed it out to my service rep before I left. He picked at it a little, rubbed it with some type of wax, then said, “Bring it back next Tuesday and I’ll have my guy look at it. We should be able to take care of that without going through the bodyshop.”
I’m going to follow their directions to the T.
Any advice, comments, questions, general discussion?
Forenzic
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Well kids…here’s the update I promised you from the invoice from
Northwood Lincoln Mercury in Spring, TX
2003 Mercury Marauder
Production 02/07/2003
Sold 07/21/2003
8/8/05
Action: HT (whatever the hell that is!)
Elapsed time: 11 minutes
8/9/05
Action: End
Elapsed time: 9 minutes
Total: 20 minutes
Concern: Customer states vehicle on cold starts has blue smoke
Cause: X
Correction: Talked to Leo
Comment: Talked to Hotline. Said normal on cold start. 5H1C9003
Tech notes: Check for oil smoke on cold start. Called Hotline. Talked to Leo. He said smoking on cold start is normal. Could start oil consumption test. 5H1C9003
What’s the bottom line?
They had it all day Monday and all day Tuesday. Did nothing to the car. They called someone named Leo on some “Hotline” for a total of 20 minutes spread over 2 days and was advised that it was normal. They told me to not do anything to the car but put gas in it and drive it. Since I had recently had the oil changed, at that dealership a few hundred miles ago, they said to “drive it 1000 miles and bring it back in”. “We are going to do an oil consumption test.”
Me: “It’s not a daily driver anymore. Do you realize how long it will take me to put 1000 miles on it? Be that as it may, I will do as you have instructed and will bring it back when I have put 1000 miles on it. I would point out that if oil is leaking past the valve seals (a VERY common problem that others have experienced)…you probably won’t see any consumption since we’re talking a small amount being burned on startup.”
What else did I get?
A nice nick and scrape through the paint on my rear passenger door above the handle. Through the paint…down to the primer. Nice little nick about the size of the end of a Bic pen cap followed by a nice scrape about an inch long. Looks sort of like orange peel. Pointed it out to my service rep before I left. He picked at it a little, rubbed it with some type of wax, then said, “Bring it back next Tuesday and I’ll have my guy look at it. We should be able to take care of that without going through the bodyshop.”
I’m going to follow their directions to the T.
Any advice, comments, questions, general discussion?
When mine had the "Blue Smoke" I brought it in and they replaced all the valve seals ... they had my car for 2 weeks ... logged 48 hours for the repair ... it were a bummer. Fixered now tho ... so ... I guess I'm happy.
:)
Blackened300a
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
NORMAL?????? Leo Needs his Head examined! I think thats the Dealers way of Saying, "We Cant Handle This Job". As for the damage. Bring it right back to them and have it completely repaired, Even if it requires bodywork. They are responsible for your Car when it is in their possession. The only good thing is that its Documented and if It gets Worse, You have proof that you Brought it to the attention of the dealership. You may need to find another Dealer, Especially one that dont consider a Phone call to be the "Correction" to your problem.
SergntMac
08-09-2005, 03:50 PM
Well kids…Any advice, comments, questions, general discussion? Yeah. Get counseling.
It is what it is, it will do what it does. Ford doesn't mind it, why should you.
Was a time in my life when a high performance engine didn't produce blue smoke at start-up, it was a quart low.
You asked...
Blackened300a
08-09-2005, 03:54 PM
Yeah. Get counseling.
It is what it is, it will do what it does. Ford doesn't mind it, why should you.
Was a time in my life when a high performance engine didn't produce blue smoke at start-up, it was a quart low.
You asked...
You Dont mind a $35k car smoking on start-up???? Especially when Its a problem thats been resolved by other members on the Board?? I would be a Pest at the Ford Dealership Until its resolved! Its not a $10k Ford Focus.
Shaft333
08-09-2005, 04:22 PM
In twenty years are we going to be installing umbrellas over the valves?
How much smoke is it?
You say you don't drive it much, could that be a factor of exagerrating what Ford considers normal?
(I have no conclusions, really, just curious)
What's the liklehood of this causing poor performance years down the road? A little leakage means a little extra carbon which eventually becomes a whole lot of carbon, which means valves stop sealing right... Isn't that basically the case from a whole load of SBC's and another, smaller, load of Mitsubishi V6's in a bunch of Dodges from the late 80's early 90's?
Sarge,
This is the only part of your response I don't quite understand:
Yeah. Get counseling.
It's hard to know your emotion since we are dealing with the written word. I don't like to assume...but from meeting you briefly at the first Marauderville and from what I've gathered on this board...I predict that this isn't a personal jab at my character for reporting an issue. I get the sense that you're trying to convey a message of "drive it like you stole it and have fun doing it." As always, I appreciate your candor and willingness to help others with your wisdom and knowledge...and I appreciate your insight.
I can't recall a time where I complained about the issue. I merely experienced what others had experienced, the blue smoke on startup, and wanted my dealer to look at it while the vehicle was still under warranty.
That said, I agree with Blackened300a that at least now it is well documented with my dealership. I have been proactive in trying to resolve the issue and report it in a fair and balanced way to others here so that they might gleen something from what I experience with this particular issue. I will follow the dealer directions and bring the vehicle back to them in 1000 miles so that they can conduct their tests and further document a concern. I will again report the findings. If Ford says, "That's just what it does"...so be it.
Rider90
08-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Have a mini-meet of Marauders in your area, gather at the dealership, bring the tech outside and tell him to watch the other tail pipes compared to yours. Normal? More like Lazy.
How much smoke is it?
You say you don't drive it much, could that be a factor of exagerrating what Ford considers normal?
Shaft333,
My apologies for not being clear on this subject. Let me rectify that.
For the past 2 years my MM has been my daily driver. Only last week was I able to purchase a 2002 Mazda Protege to use as a daily driver. I want to keep the miles down on the MM and am in a position where I can have a second car note.
Over the past 6-9 months, the blue smoke at startup has been a daily occurrence when I crank it up in the morning to go to work and in the evening to go home from work. Some mornings it's just a bit of smoke and other mornings it is quite a lot of smoke. There really doesn't appear to be any common thread as to when it smokes a little or a lot. However, in the hot afternoons here in Houston...there seems to be quite a lot of smoke on cold startup when I crank her to go home each day at 4:30pm. Any relationship there? Maybe...but I am far from being ANY sort of expert.
MainEngDwarf
08-09-2005, 04:53 PM
They are completeing the work on mine tommorrow. I'll let everyone know how it comes out. Mine doesn't do it all the time but when it does it's a big cloud out of the passenger side.
Mike Poore
08-09-2005, 04:55 PM
Alan, I have trouble understanding why one dealership will tell you: "Yep, we're familiar with that issue, here's the TSB, and we'll fix it"; as some have done, while other dealerships stonewall, or truly have no reference or information about the issue, or what to do about it. I mean, don't they talk to the same folks at L/M Corporate? Does it change from DSO to DSO? It makes no sense to me that one dealership will ackwnoledge and fix a problem, while another will not. :dunno:
SergntMac
08-09-2005, 05:02 PM
You Dont mind a $35k car smoking on start-up???? Especially when Its a problem thats been resolved by other members on the Board?? I would be a Pest at the Ford Dealership Until its resolved! Its not a $10k Ford Focus. Nope. I'm not upset one bit, dude. And, my MM cost me a lot more than the 35K you mention, maybe twice that, given it's history. It's my second MM, the first cost me 41K out the door, but that was an advanced sale donchakno...
Not when my MM runs mid 12s in the Quarter mile with myself and three passengers in the car.
Not when I can eat up American OTR blacktop at 140 MPH.
Not when I can wear through three sets of Pirelli tires in 30K miles.
Not when I can leave my garage, fill up with 93 octane and make it to Indy in two hours, Seymour, IN. in three hours, Detroit, or, Cleveland in four hours, Atlanta, GA., in ten hours, and Orange Park FL. in 13 hours, and get 24 MPG too.
Not when my last dyno says 464 RWHP, 430 RWTQ, and my last 1/4 mile timeslip says 12.43x, with a 1.71 60' time.
I've rebuilt my engine, my tranny, and my rear end, for performance, maybe I bought this car twice?
Nonetheless, I have never been more please with/by any automobile in my life, including the hard-hitting big block super stars from the General in the late '60s. Nothing I have driven, or, owned before, matches up to what I am driving today, and I drive it e v e r y d a y, weather permitting, and notwithstanding it other "creature comfort" features.
Yep...A little blue smoke at start-up doesn't frost my cake, considering everything else that's in the mixing bowl...
SergntMac
08-09-2005, 05:26 PM
Sarge, This is the only part of your response I don't quite understand: E-mail sent, we will figure it out.
wesman
08-09-2005, 08:28 PM
I agree, an excellent article on the whole combustion process, thank you.
However, I still do not see any connection between the Steeda oil separator, and pre-ignition/detonation. How do they interact?
No clue here. Maybe MeninBlk will chime in.
Alan - do not underestimate how much some repeated complaining will get you at a dealer. I have seen the top half of an engine replaced because the customer wanted the EPA rated fuel economy on the window sticker, and complained daily that he did not get it. They started replacing stuff just to shut him up, his MPG never changed.
Tom Kuznicki
08-09-2005, 08:47 PM
Not only will they tell you that the smoke is normal, these nitwits from Ford are even stating that 1.5 quarts of oil in 1000, thats right ONE THOUSAND miles is considered NORMAL in a Marauder. Lets think about this for a minute. OK time's up. If any one of us owners were to go on a 3000 mile trip at any one time, that means that by the time we reach our destination we will only have 1.5 quarts of oil left in the pan. Now, if we were to take our car to a dealer with only this much oil in it do you for a solitary second believe that the dealer would honor the warranty on your vehicle. NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. They would cancel you like a stamp and accuse you of abusing the vehicle. Anyone with smoke or oil issues better contact Ford or risk being stuck with an oil pig after warranty. IMHO
wesman: I might need to use that technique!
Tom: You are absolutely correct.
I think this will be my course of action:
Drive the MM for 1000 miles, bring it in, let them run an oil consumption test.
Their response will dictate my next step. If they tell me "That's just the way it is.", I will have them note that on my service records and request any future repairs related to this issue be covered in full by Ford. I will also call 1.800.392.FORD and ask for the Ford Zone Rep of my area to speak to them about the issue and see what he/she suggests. If they replace the valve seals under warranty I will applaud their efforts, thank them for their professionalism, and contact my Ford Zone Rep and compliment the dealer on a job well done.
I think I owe it to myself, and to Ford, to follow their directions and doing as they've suggested. I will continue down this path until all avenues are exhausted.
Dennis Reinhart
08-10-2005, 07:14 AM
Again I hate to see people get jerked around, a oil consumption test may show NOTHING if its a bad drivers head, there is a TSB on this, I am in school for two days if you call me on Friday I will fax this over to you.
Again I hate to see people get jerked around, a oil consumption test may show NOTHING if its a bad drivers head, there is a TSB on this, I am in school for two days if you call me on Friday I will fax this over to you.
Dennis - many thanks! I look forward to calling you on Friday.
Dennis Reinhart
08-13-2005, 10:10 AM
Dropped the MM off at the dealership first thing this morning for the infamous "blue smoke on startup" issue.
I know this is a hot topic, so I will do my best to keep you updated with what my dealer says, what they find out, anything that is done to the vehicle, and will describe any pre- and post- follow-up diagnostics they run.
HERE IS THE TSB FOR THE TICKING NOISE this apply AS WELL AS BLUE SMOKE ON START UP.
Now it does no specifically say smoke on start up, but you have to read the TSB it states that there will be damage to the valve guides, which of course will cause oil to leak in the cylinders, and some of you may wonder why they do not change both heads the answer is very simple the passenger head was made by a different company and they do not have this issue, only on the drivers side, so I hope this helps the members here I have already arranger to have member in Miami to bring the car and I will have the head replaced UNDER WARRANTY.
HERE IS THE TSB FOR THE TICKING NOISE this apply AS WELL AS BLUE SMOKE ON START UP...
Dennis,
I wanted to publicly thank you for your help in this matter. Thanks for taking time out of your already hectic schedule to send the information. I appreciate it more than you know.
Lowell
08-13-2005, 06:31 PM
I will verify the findings of the TSB. My MM was at the dealer for a length of time. I did not rush them. The valve guide seal are replaced. The dealer kept my MM one extra day to let sit overnight, it did not smoke for them. The dealers driver brought my car to me and picked up the loaner. My MM sat for four hours. Blue smoke on start up. Drivers side head is in at the dealer. Drivers side head will be replaced after MVIII. Be polite be persistant. Issues are resolvable. My dealer did no damage to my MM while in for service. Best of luck to all who share this issue.
Big House
08-13-2005, 06:44 PM
Alan,
Very well put. And I assure you Sarge meant no harm by his remark. I would though like to commend you on word choice and usage. I have experienced in other forums, where one took another's words wrongy and proceded to; how shall I say "rip them a new one." So I say to you "good on ya mate."
Big House
Sarge,
This is the only part of your response I don't quite understand:
It's hard to know your emotion since we are dealing with the written word. I don't like to assume...but from meeting you briefly at the first Marauderville and from what I've gathered on this board...I predict that this isn't a personal jab at my character for reporting an issue. I get the sense that you're trying to convey a message of "drive it like you stole it and have fun doing it." As always, I appreciate your candor and willingness to help others with your wisdom and knowledge...and I appreciate your insight.
I can't recall a time where I complained about the issue. I merely experienced what others had experienced, the blue smoke on startup, and wanted my dealer to look at it while the vehicle was still under warranty.
That said, I agree with Blackened300a that at least now it is well documented with my dealership. I have been proactive in trying to resolve the issue and report it in a fair and balanced way to others here so that they might gleen something from what I experience with this particular issue. I will follow the dealer directions and bring the vehicle back to them in 1000 miles so that they can conduct their tests and further document a concern. I will again report the findings. If Ford says, "That's just what it does"...so be it.
Lowell,
Interesting post! Correct me if I followed it wrong...but it appears as if you are saying that after your dealer replaced your valve seals, you continued to get blue smoke at startup. Now they're going to replace the entire head? Please keep us updated on your situation. I am very interested. I hope to use the information that Dennis provided as a tool when I meet next with my service manager.
Big House: Thanks for your kind words, sir!
Dennis Reinhart
08-14-2005, 10:25 AM
Lowell,
Interesting post! Correct me if I followed it wrong...but it appears as if you are saying that after your dealer replaced your valve seals, you continued to get blue smoke at startup. Now they're going to replace the entire head? Please keep us updated on your situation. I am very interested. I hope to use the information that Dennis provided as a tool when I meet next with my service manager.
Big House: Thanks for your kind words, sir!
Gee I dont know how to say it any more, if you have the bad head replacing the valve guide seals will not fix the problem, since its a bad casting the only way to fix this is by replacing the head. This apears to be the case here the dealer may not be aware of the TSB they soon will be and they can call Ed Roberts here in Orange Park he can help.
Dennis,
I hear ya on that one! Maybe Lowell can give more detail about his situation. I guess he can provide whether or not he was getting the tick..tick...tick noise or if he was just experiencing smoke at startup like me.
I may be wrong...but I seem to remember reading that early 300As were "typically" the ones with bad heads. I think a couple of you alluded to that after my original post. Not sure what Lowell has, but mine is a 300B. I've yet to experience the ticking noise others have.
I'll show my service manager the information you sent and keep everyone posted on where that leads.
Thanks again for your expertise, Dennis!
Lowell
08-15-2005, 03:56 AM
I Have a 300A built 7-02. I never heard a tick. My dealer is now aware of the TSB. My dealer had several phone calls with Ford. My dealer had to go several levels to get an individual, who was aware of the drivers side head issue on the MM. I am very happy to be near the end of this issue.
I Have a 300A built 7-02. I never heard a tick. My dealer is now aware of the TSB. My dealer had several phone calls with Ford. My dealer had to go several levels to get an individual, who was aware of the drivers side head issue on the MM. I am very happy to be near the end of this issue.
That's great news, Lowell. Keep us updated!
Tinaree
08-15-2005, 08:56 AM
HERE IS THE TSB FOR THE TICKING NOISE this apply AS WELL AS BLUE SMOKE ON START UP.
Now it does no specifically say smoke on start up, but you have to read the TSB it states that there will be damage to the valve guides, which of course will cause oil to leak in the cylinders, and some of you may wonder why they do not change both heads the answer is very simple the passenger head was made by a different company and they do not have this issue, only on the drivers side, so I hope this helps the members here I have already arranger to have member in Miami to bring the car and I will have the head replaced UNDER WARRANTY.
I guess I missed it but I don't see a TSB????
MI2QWK4U
08-15-2005, 02:07 PM
Yeah. Get counseling.
It is what it is, it will do what it does. Ford doesn't mind it, why should you.
Was a time in my life when a high performance engine didn't produce blue smoke at start-up, it was a quart low.
You asked...
Mac, smooth as ever, this guy isn't even from detroit, he asked a question. It's your choice not to answer, unless this is another cryptic joke. Have another beer before you fall off the stool again.
mcblk03mm
08-15-2005, 06:50 PM
Dropped the MM off at the dealership first thing this morning for the infamous "blue smoke on startup" issue.
I know this is a hot topic, so I will do my best to keep you updated with what my dealer says, what they find out, anything that is done to the vehicle, and will describe any pre- and post- follow-up diagnostics they run.
Yeah, I have an 03... Had 34000 Miles on it when i decided to do something about the blue smoke at start-up. Brought it into a local Lincoln Mercury dealership ( Hasset " of wantagh", for any of you from new york- They suck). They tried to tell me first, they couldnt duplicate hte problem. When i went there, I started it with them and it did it- as it usually did Equally out of both tail pipes. I argued, that since it did it equally out of both tailpipes, there must have been problems in both heads. ( even no theirs a cross over, it would tend to lean more otward one side). They said No, but then agreed that both heads needed replacing. 14 Days with No car, Smoking finally stopped. I have also experienced what i think some of you are saying, a Intermittant tick from the motor. But do ***** that there is a problem, get two heads out of them.
Also, my car shudders when it locks over drive. This will be the second Tranny, it was replaced once due to the Reverse Snap ring issue. This time Im just going to pay a Rebuilder to do it right, ( Blue streak clutch's, Factory TEch valvebody, etc) instead of a Trash Ford reman. unit.
Walrod
08-16-2005, 06:07 AM
You can fix the transmission shudder by having the transmission fluid replaced.
DeadVic
08-17-2005, 08:02 PM
Alan-
Northwood LM will do you right most of the time, in my experience. You need to work with Rick in Service and he'll get you in and out quickly. Sometimes you get these BS answers from them but if you bring them the data Dennis shared they will take it seriously.
I had, what I considered serious, an issue with my Navigator which happened in their care. They did try to say they didn't cause the problem but with persistence they did finally make it right. The service manager got involved and did me right immediately.
Keep us updated.
Oh, and regarding the damage to your ride, same thing with my Navi. They must like throwing wrenches in that shop is all I can figure. They did make it right in the end though.
I know the whole experience can be frustrating at times. Stick to your guns and if we need to do that mini meet in their lot, let me know.
You need to work with Rick in Service and he'll get you in and out quickly.
Yep. Rick is the ONLY guy I ever deal with when I go there. He is a great guy. In their defense, I'm not experiencing the ticking noise that others have described...but a new member of this board was kind enough to send me his exact invoice from when he had his MM done.
I faxed the info that I got from Dennis over to Rick. I will black-out the personal info on this shop invoice I got from Raul and fax it to Rick, as well. We'll see what happens.
I'm torn between Sarge's advice of "drive it like you stole it and stop worrying about the little crap" and them breaking into my engine, doing more damage to my car, and having it start the blue smoke again after a few thousand miles as others have experienced. It's a roll of the dice, I guess.
harryo
09-07-2005, 02:50 PM
I just got back from my dealer. He had the car all day. He claims that he can't do anything about the blue smoke unless he see's it happening. Mine only does it every couple of months (40,000 miles) . i also have a problem with my gas gauge dropping off really quick til it reachs about a half and then everything is good, the dealer claims it is OK I know there is a TSB on the gas gauge problem but can't find the number.
Well kids…here’s the update I promised you from the invoice from
Northwood Lincoln Mercury in Spring, TX
2003 Mercury Marauder
Production 02/07/2003
Sold 07/21/2003
8/8/05
Action: HT (whatever the hell that is!)
Elapsed time: 11 minutes
8/9/05
Action: End
Elapsed time: 9 minutes
Total: 20 minutes
Concern: Customer states vehicle on cold starts has blue smoke
Cause: X
Correction: Talked to Leo
Comment: Talked to Hotline. Said normal on cold start. 5H1C9003
Tech notes: Check for oil smoke on cold start. Called Hotline. Talked to Leo. He said smoking on cold start is normal. Could start oil consumption test. 5H1C9003
What’s the bottom line?
They had it all day Monday and all day Tuesday. Did nothing to the car. They called someone named Leo on some “Hotline” for a total of 20 minutes spread over 2 days and was advised that it was normal. They told me to not do anything to the car but put gas in it and drive it. Since I had recently had the oil changed, at that dealership a few hundred miles ago, they said to “drive it 1000 miles and bring it back in”. “We are going to do an oil consumption test.”
Me: “It’s not a daily driver anymore. Do you realize how long it will take me to put 1000 miles on it? Be that as it may, I will do as you have instructed and will bring it back when I have put 1000 miles on it. I would point out that if oil is leaking past the valve seals (a VERY common problem that others have experienced)…you probably won’t see any consumption since we’re talking a small amount being burned on startup.”
What else did I get?
A nice nick and scrape through the paint on my rear passenger door above the handle. Through the paint…down to the primer. Nice little nick about the size of the end of a Bic pen cap followed by a nice scrape about an inch long. Looks sort of like orange peel. Pointed it out to my service rep before I left. He picked at it a little, rubbed it with some type of wax, then said, “Bring it back next Tuesday and I’ll have my guy look at it. We should be able to take care of that without going through the bodyshop.”
I’m going to follow their directions to the T.
Any advice, comments, questions, general discussion?
Gryphonzus
09-07-2005, 05:42 PM
Well I am in a quandry, big word huh? I have a 2004 DTR and I started mine up the other day and it smoked on startup. It is not a daily driver either so it probably had not been started for 4 or 5 days. I will keep an eye on it and see what it does. I am taking it into the shop to have the trim piece on the rear trunk replace that goes across the back over the license plate. It is sagging where it goes over the plate area. I will mention this to them then.
I have a 2004 DTR and I started mine up the other day and it smoked on startup. It is not a daily driver...
Please keep us updated.
If nothing else, I am intrigued by the different dealer responses regarding this issue...so I am anxious to hear what your dealer tells you.
Tom Kuznicki
09-08-2005, 04:43 PM
Sarge,
This is the only part of your response I don't quite understand:
It's hard to know your emotion since we are dealing with the written word. I don't like to assume...but from meeting you briefly at the first Marauderville and from what I've gathered on this board...I predict that this isn't a personal jab at my character for reporting an issue. I get the sense that you're trying to convey a message of "drive it like you stole it and have fun doing it." As always, I appreciate your candor and willingness to help others with your wisdom and knowledge...and I appreciate your insight.
I can't recall a time where I complained about the issue. I merely experienced what others had experienced, the blue smoke on startup, and wanted my dealer to look at it while the vehicle was still under warranty.
That said, I agree with Blackened300a that at least now it is well documented with my dealership. I have been proactive in trying to resolve the issue and report it in a fair and balanced way to others here so that they might gleen something from what I experience with this particular issue. I will follow the dealer directions and bring the vehicle back to them in 1000 miles so that they can conduct their tests and further document a concern. I will again report the findings. If Ford says, "That's just what it does"...so be it.Alan; I am now on the 3rd 1000 miles of the oil consumption test. Each time I have taken the car back, they look at it for less than 2 minutes, bring it back and report that , crankcase still full, even though I know for a fact that it isn't. Ford stated that 1.5 quarts of oil every 1000 miles is considered NORMAL on the Marauder. The fact that you are going to take their word and let it be is the furthest thing you should do. I myself will fight them tooth and nail because for what we paid for these vehicles, and the technology there is today, these cars should run from oil change to oil change without ever using 1/2 quart of oil in 5000 miles , providing you are not running and ripping every time you start the car up. Matter of fact, our Marauder is actually my wifes grandkid transport and I guarantee she does not beat the car.
Alan; I am now on the 3rd 1000 miles of the oil consumption test...snip...The fact that you are going to take their word and let it be is the furthest thing you should do.
Tom,
My MM certainly doesn't burn oil as Ford describes as "acceptable" for our cars. If anything, I figure the amount that gets burned at startup is, at best, a miniscule amount between oil changes. I'm going to continue to drive it, enjoy it, and take it back to my L/M dealer so they can finalize their oil consumption test to meet the Hotline requirements.
One of three things will happen:
1. They will replace the entire driver's side head per info I've collected from Dennis and others from this board and have faxed to my service rep. (Thanks again guys. You know who you are!)
2. They will replace the valve seals per info I've collected from Dennis and others from this board and have faxed to my service rep.
3. They will say nothing is wrong and that it is "normal". I'll continue to drive it like it was meant to be driven, continue proper upkeep, and let the dealer document anything they do to it or for it so there are no questions about how the vehicle was serviced while in my possession.
If I get answer #3, I will expect written documentation from the service manager/dealership owner/Ford Hotline rep accepting responsibility for future repairs due to this issue. (Hey...I can dream, right? :D )
Lowell
09-08-2005, 11:21 PM
My dealer called me to tell me that my new cylinder heads are in. I leave my 03 300 A Wednesday next week, for surgery. I will post the results when I get my MM back. Yes, they are replacing both heads.
My dealer called me to tell me that my new cylinder heads are in. I leave my 03 300 A Wednesday next week, for surgery. I will post the results when I get my MM back. Yes, they are replacing both heads.
That's excellent news, Lowell. Glad to see your dealer stepping up to the plate! I think many of us are initially being given the run-around. With the information that Dennis and others have provided me...I don't see how they can continue to deny my claim once they finish all their oil consumption monkey business.
Lowell
09-25-2005, 06:08 PM
I got my MM back Friday 9-23-05. Both heads replaced. After driving to Hickory Corners to see the IMOA event, and Kalamazoo to visit family, logged 410 miles, NO SMOKE. Oil at the same level. I am elated. I rolled 26k miles on the way home Saturday from IMOA event. Two years and 20K miles working out this issue. I would like to thank all of you who gave me input to get this issue resolved. By the way my dealer did not mark my car in any way while working on my MM. 2003 300A built 7-02. Be patient problems are resolvable.
Marauder2005
09-25-2005, 06:13 PM
I got my MM back Friday 9-23-05. Both heads replaced. After driving to Hickory Corners to see the IMOA event, and Kalamazoo to visit family, logged 410 miles, NO SMOKE. Oil at the same level. I am elated. I rolled 26k miles on the way home Saturday from IMOA event. Two years and 20K miles working out this issue. I would like to thank all of you who gave me input to get this issue resolved. By the way my dealer did not mark my car in any way while working on my MM. 2003 300A built 7-02. Be patient problems are resolvable.
Lowell, was your oil level/presure dropping before?
Tallboy
09-25-2005, 06:14 PM
I got my MM back Friday 9-23-05. Both heads replaced. After driving to Hickory Corners to see the IMOA event, and Kalamazoo to visit family, logged 410 miles, NO SMOKE. Oil at the same level. I am elated. I rolled 26k miles on the way home Saturday from IMOA event. Two years and 20K miles working out this issue. I would like to thank all of you who gave me input to get this issue resolved. By the way my dealer did not mark my car in any way while working on my MM. 2003 300A built 7-02. Be patient problems are resolvable.
I'm happy your car is fixed, pal! :banana2:
Now, pull up a chair, crack a cold one, :beer: and stare at it for me, will ya? :lol:
Lowell
09-25-2005, 06:26 PM
Yes my oil level would drop. When I went to Indy, MVII, I used a quart in 700 miles. When I went to Dream Cruise, MVIII, I used a half quart in 600 miles. My oil consuption was very erratic as was the blues smoke erratic. The hotter the weather, more oil used, more blue smoke on start up. Oil pressure, I do not know, I still have the stock guage.
Gryphonzus
09-25-2005, 07:16 PM
Well I got my car back from the dealer and they said they could not duplicate the problem. Not surprised since it seems to have to sit for a few days. I may have the oil back up in the pcv like I saw earlier in this thread. How do I check this? And where is the area located. I know on my Harley F150 there were alot of problems with oil being blown back into the supercharger by the pcv. Some of the guys put a oil drain filter with a glass canister and after a week it was half full or empty depending on your point of view.
:) I had Valve Seals replaced 8-08-05 and have driven about
2k and so far not one puff of smoke at start up. I purchased 8-02 didn't look to see the build date. Running Royal Purple 5w 20 and it will use about a pint in 5500 mi. :beer:
Thanks:
Bob
stuart petri
10-13-2006, 11:41 AM
I am having the same problem. What was the final word on this issue? The dealership is telling me that it wont smoke for them ,and they are trying to brush me off. Thanks for any insight in this matter. 04 marauder 35,000 mi
Stuart.
I never worried about it too much after getting insight from Sarge. However, I've since sold my Marauder and moved on to another vehicle.
MainEngDwarf
10-17-2006, 12:04 PM
I had the blue smoke at start up issue. The dealer in NY where I bought it tryed to fix it and failed,(new valve cover and PCV setup, new valve seals in the passenger side head). When I moved to Va Beach in Jan. I decided to try again. Luckily I got a real good mechanic at the Ford dealership down here. He discovered that not only was it smoking at startup, but was puffing smoke occasionally while running. Ford decided to do a teardown and replace rings. When the engine was tore down they discovered "soft" rings in all 8 cylinders, and the ring gaps lined up in 4 cylinders. :confused: Since they had the heads off,( and they couldn't find the proper tools to tear the heads down) They sent them to a local ( and reputible) machine shop, where they found out of spec valve guides and seals. Needless to say they rebuilt the heads. Now the engine is quieter, tighter and I hate to say it(not really) but faster. I guess there are still good dealer mechanics out there. :D
grzellmer
10-17-2006, 04:35 PM
Stuart
My successful story is in the attached thread.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23008
It has been nearly a year (and 16K miles) since the new heads were installed. About once a month I see a hint of blue but no ticking ever. My dealership really did go to bat for me. I would buy another car from them but they "consolidated" with another LM dealer about 6 months ago.:depress:
Since the install and break in period I have driven the car differently. Full throttle on ramps to the freeway, etc... I don't beat the car, but I don't baby it either. Net has been that it runs much better than it ever did the previous three years.
Makes me want to buy another Merc. If they just had another RWD, V8 musclecar. :bigcry: Guess I'll have to hang on till the Challenger or Camaro are available.
Good Luck
Gary
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