Gear Comparison -3.55's - 3.73's - 4.10's [Archive]

juno

08-16-2005, 06:57 AM

Thanks for posting this chart. I'm glad to know that 3.73s would make a very unnoticeable difference on fuel ecconomy yet still yeild great performance. Now I know what gears to step up to when I get some cash for mods.
Yeah, 4.10's would be a blast if you can keep any long highway trips to 70 or so, but 3.73's seem to be a good all around gear. Too bad they didn't put a 5 speed in these. :)

As a rough guess each Ford standard gear set is an increase of about 5% in RPM's. (ie from 3.27 to 3.55 to 3.73 to 3.90 to 4.10, etc.)

StevenJ

08-16-2005, 07:30 AM

Yeah, 4.10's would be a blast if you can keep any long highway trips to 70 or so, but 3.73's seem to be a good all around gear. Too bad they didn't put a 5 speed in these. :)

As a rough guess each Ford standard gear set is an increase of about 5% in RPM's. (ie from 3.27 to 3.55 to 3.73 to 3.90 to 4.10, etc.)
OMG! That's the first thing that popped into my head when I took it on the highway for the first time! If this car had a fifth gear it could easily cruise at 1500 rpm at 80 mph. Maybe in the next big updated, when the Crown Vic gets the new 3v V8 and 6 speed auto, we'll be able to do a nice cruise but until then, the Marauder is the only way to go.

mrjones

08-16-2005, 01:54 PM

Maybe in the next big updated, when the Crown Vic gets the new 3v V8 and 6 speed auto, we'll be able to do a nice cruise but until then, the Marauder is the only way to go.

The Explorer is getting this powertrain now for the 2006 m.y. I'm thinking that would be a great replacement for the MM. Almost the same hp, max torque is much lower rpm AND it does not require premium unleaded. That 6 spd auto should really keep the motor in the sweet spot.

Being an Explorer, being driven the way they are, AND selling 8 bajillion units per day, it won't be long till there are some totalled out and ready to donate their powertrains.

BillyGman

08-16-2005, 03:05 PM

I took an 850 mile trip with my supercharged Marauder a few months ago which also has 4.56 gears in the rear, and I was getting about 17.0 MPG averaging 80 MPH which is just fine with me. The engine only revs at 2,700 RPM's at 70 MPH in O/D with the 4.56's. I've previously had 3.55's and 4.10's in this car, and I think that 4.10's are the best compromise for street and strip.The engine was reving at 2,400 RPM's in O/D at 70 MPH with the 4.10 gears, and it only reduced my gas mileage by 2 MPG as compared to the 3.55's.

With a heavy car, I wouldn't bother with a small gear change. For example, some people here have talked about switching from a 4.10 ratio to a 4.30 ratio. I'm not meaning to be a wise guy here, but I laughed when I read that, because there's no way you're going to feel a difference on the street going from 4.10's to 4.30's with a 4,200 LB car.

That isn't to say that the choice of 4.30 gears to begin with would be a wrong choice. But if you already had 4.10's then going to 4.30's wouldn't even be worth the cost or the effort since it would make such a miniscule difference. I don't mean to start any debates here, but I just thought that you guys might like to hear from someone who actually has used three different gear ratios in his daily driven Marauder, and can speak from experience on that specifically concerning Marauders. But ofcourse the choice of gear ratio is yours to make. it's your car. ;)

SergntMac

08-16-2005, 03:16 PM

I've previously had 3.55's and 4.10's in this car, and I think that 4.10's are the best compromise for street and strip.The engine was reving at 2,400 RPM's in O/D at 70 MPH with the 4.10 gears, and it only reduced my gas mileage by 2 MPG as compared to the 3.55's.

That isn't to say that the choice of 4.30 gears to begin with would be a wrong choice. But if you already had 4.10's then going to 4.30's wouldn't even be worth the cost or the effort since it would make such a miniscule difference. I agree. The 4:10s seem to be the best compromise between performance and economy. If I ever have to do it over again, I'd go with the 4:30s, but I wouldn't bother pulling 4:10s for 4:30s, just isn't cost effective.

Bootlegger

08-16-2005, 04:32 PM

Just my 2 cents here, what BillyG, and Mac have posted are right on. I had the 4.10s in my 03MM, and the 4.30s now in the 04. I can't tell that much difference in the performance, just a little more rpm at highway speeds, if I had to do it over ,I'd go back to the 4.10's.

rocknrod

08-16-2005, 05:53 PM

Someone say fifth gear ?
How about an Automatic Overdrive. We use these in Hot Rodding sometimes:
http://www.gearvendors.com/images/gears13.jpg

http://www.gearvendors.com/f2wd4s.html

With this you wouldnt need to install, well you read it the article........:)
There is another company that makes these also. I'll find em.

juno

08-16-2005, 06:29 PM

Thanls for the thread. I sent them an e-mail and I will post the info I get!

MarauderMarc

08-16-2005, 08:09 PM

Ive been reading alot about 3.90's being a new big thing. Any info or experience? Im about to purchase 4.10's, but the 3.90 and 4.30 is still beckoning me.

sfsv

08-16-2005, 11:01 PM

BillyGman

08-16-2005, 11:26 PM

:rolleyes: The 5R55Etrans in 05 Mustang GT is an excellent unit to retrofit in a MM, but we would proably need a tuner (Lidio) and some assistance from a Ford engineer (to intergrate the wiring). This transmission has an extra low first gear ratio, allowing your 3.55 gears to respond as if they were 4.30, but allow you to keep your cruise rpm that the 3.55 provide.Since you happen to have mentioned Lidio, allow me to point out that Lidio has stated that he likes the transmissions in our Marauders better than the automatic transmissions in the 05 Mustangs because the ones in the Marauder are beefier, and he believes that they can handle more torque and HP. I trust Lidio's opinion on this, therefore I'd have to say that it wouldn't be any advantage overall, for us to try and install a transmision from an 05 GT in our Marauders.

JACook

08-16-2005, 11:54 PM

:rolleyes: The 5R55Etrans in 05 Mustang GT is an excellent unit to retrofit in a MM, but we would proably need a tuner (Lidio) and some assistance from a Ford engineer (to intergrate the wiring). I dunno. The Mustang 5R55S is based on the older A4LD box used in the Ranger pickups, which itself was
based on the old C3 that was used in Pintos and such. A much less robust design than our 4R70(or 75)W.
Early reports seem to suggest that the box holds up well enough in the Mustang, but I'm not sure how
well one of these would stand up to pulling around a 4400 lb MM with a leadfoot like me behind the wheel...

Logan

08-17-2005, 05:25 AM

'03BlkMM

08-17-2005, 05:48 AM

3.90's are a reasonable compromise as well and should probably be the minimum step up over stock. They offer a decent overall improvement that can be felt and my highway fuel mileage on a recent trip to Houston was 22.7 mpg.

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 08:53 AM

but would probably stick 5.33's in there just to show Gman up. ;)LOL........ w/the 5.13's you would only need first gear for when you're hauling a load of concrete in the trunk. :baaa: :burn:

Badger

08-17-2005, 09:55 AM

What if 3.55s were mated to Trilogy SC? Low end torque that might be more manageable then a higher gear ratio and yet a low cruise RPM too.

I use my car for in/around as well as some long distance driving. It would be nice not having to change gears and driveshafts.

Do the people that have the Trilogy blowers change to higher gears for 1/4 times? I'm not too intetested in racing at the track but want a nice highway ramp and highway passing speed capability.

King Fubar

08-17-2005, 10:41 AM

Badger

08-17-2005, 11:39 AM

KingFUBAR: I assume the 1/4 times and mph on your sig are pre S/C.:D

prchrman

08-17-2005, 12:14 PM

StevenJ

08-17-2005, 01:28 PM

Since you happen to have mentioned Lidio, allow me to point out that Lidio has stated that he likes the transmissions in our Marauders better than the automatic transmissions in the 05 Mustangs because the ones in the Marauder are beefier, and he believes that they can handle more torque and HP. I trust Lidio's opinion on this, therefore I'd have to say that it wouldn't be any advantage overall, for us to try and install a transmision from an 05 GT in our Marauders. Yeah that five speed unit had a lot of problems in the DEW98 cars and it is not a heavy duty unit. You'd be better off taking the five speed auto from the super duty! Oh yes, don't you need an aftermarket gear for 3.90s? I think only Richmond makes them for Ford 8.8s. I may be interested in thoose instead of 3.73s. How well do their gears hold up?

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 02:40 PM

Yeah that five speed unit had a lot of problems in the DEW98 cars and it is not a heavy duty unit. You'd be better off taking the five speed auto from the super duty! Oh yes, don't you need an aftermarket gear for 3.90s? I think only Richmond makes them for Ford 8.8s. I may be interested in thoose instead of 3.73s. How well do their gears hold up?I heard some 4.11 Richmond gears in my buddy's Chevelle SS, and they whined so loud at all speeds that it sounded like I was riding in a truck. And since then, I called Richmond gear to ask them about that, and they told me that even if their gears are installed correctly, the 3.90's and numerically higher ratios will whine because of the way the teeth on the gears are cut.

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 02:42 PM

I like the 3:55's I can hookup at the track and get low 20's on the highway.I can hook-up great at the track also with my 4.56's. 1.6 second 60' times are about the best that anyone is going to hook with a Marauder.;)

rumble

08-17-2005, 02:57 PM

I am still waiting to hear someone putting new gears in the tranny...lower 1st, 2nd and 3rd...I believe this is the way to go all way around...expensive...but if someone blows a tranny maybe they could put it back with said gears...willie

Interesting, does any one actually make different ratios for first and second
for these transmissions?

StevenJ

08-17-2005, 02:59 PM

Well Summit Racing seems to have two 3.90's instock for Ford 8.8s and they both cost as much as 4.10s. Here's the set I'm looking at. http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail. asp&autofilter=1&part=MGR%2DF888390&N=4294925134+4294918962+429490 1314+4294902634&autoview=sku

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mgr-f890411.jpg

Anyone have experience with Motive Gear? I never heard of them before.

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 03:03 PM

I'd stay with Ford gears if I were you.

StevenJ

08-17-2005, 03:12 PM

I'd stay with Ford gears if I were you.
3.73s it is :D! It's a shame Ford Racing doesn't make 3.90s!

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 03:23 PM

good luck....... let us know when you decide to install the 4.10's

StevenJ

08-17-2005, 03:39 PM

Cough, 3.73s. They are cheaper anyway and are fast enough, combined with a chip, to get my car into the 14s which is all I really want. Mines a daily driver so I can't afford the gas for anything more. I may add a custom intake system, like the K&N though.

3.90's are a reasonable compromise as well and should probably be the minimum step up over stock. They offer a decent overall improvement that can be felt and my highway fuel mileage on a recent trip to Houston was 22.7 mpg. Mind letting us know where you got your 3.90s from? How are they holding up?

'03BlkMM

08-17-2005, 04:09 PM

Cough, 3.73s. They are cheaper anyway and are fast enough, combined with a chip, to get my car into the 14s which is all I really want. Mines a daily driver so I can't afford the gas for anything more. I may add a custom intake system, like the K&N though.

Mind letting us know where you got your 3.90s from? How are they holding up?
Mine are Motive 3.90's.
Holding up good, nice and quiet. Its all in the install.
Do it right and they're quiet, do it wrong and they will make noise! I read up on the Mustang sites before buying them and there were plenty of people that said the Motive performance gears were quiet when installed properly. I bought mine from mustangtuning.com, great prices and fast shipping.

StevenJ

08-17-2005, 04:16 PM

Thank you. Wow, the same gear are $230 from Summit! They are only $152 from that site you showed me! Thanks a bunch.

Marauderman

08-17-2005, 04:33 PM

What Mac and Billy said. 3.73's are a waste of time in the Marauder. You don't even notice the difference. 4.10's are a daily driver nice gear, though everyone who's had 4.10's says they'd do 4.30's....

I'd do 4.30's again no problem, but would probably stick 5.33's in there just to show Gman up. ;)
Well, I got another chance to redo mine again since I'm putting in a new rebuild engine, so I am upping mine from 410 to 430's just so I can put those 410's into wifes' '97 T-Bird........and if I don't like it or any noise it makes--I'll just put a set of 410's back in...but like several have said--If given the chance---and that chance was looking me in the eye with these upgrades-- with this new engine--..heck--why not--..and BTW---That 5.33's comment--
really got me ROTFLMA..

SergntMac

08-17-2005, 05:13 PM

I'd do 4.30's again no problem, but would probably stick 5.33's in there just to show Gman up. ;)
5:33? Ummm...Great idea! I got a Powerglide I'm not using...

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 07:14 PM

. Its all in the install. .Not with Richmond gears 3.90 and numerically higher it isn't. And that's according to their tech people.

BillyGman

08-17-2005, 07:22 PM

What if 3.55s were mated to Trilogy SC? Since that supercharger makes real good low-end torque, then it's great with the 3.55's. I changed the gear ratio on my Marauder waaaaay before I ever even thought about supercharging it. otherwise I would've likely stayed with the 3.55's had I known I'd end up getting the Trilogy kit.

There are some board members here who have the 3.55's and the Trilogy kit, and they LUV it. I believe that Rick (aka " Marauder S/Cer #5") and Chuck (aka "TallBoy") both still have the 3.55 gears, and are both Trilogy customers. So I think that would be fine.

'03BlkMM

08-17-2005, 09:00 PM

Not with Richmond gears 3.90 and numerically higher it isn't. And that's according to their tech people.
I agree with you. I've read by quite a few people to stay away from the Richmond's.
I was mainly addressing that to those individuals that believe that any gears other than FRPP are inferior or noisy. Just because you go out and buy something other than FRPP gears doesn't always mean you are doomed to listen to gear whine. I encourage anybody looking at buying a particular brand of gear to seek out others that have installed that particular brand and model of gear to see how they liked them.

Tinaree

08-17-2005, 09:32 PM

Since that supercharger makes real good low-end torque, then it's great with the 3.55's. I changed the gear ratio on my Marauder waaaaay before I ever even thought about supercharging it. otherwise I would've likely stayed with the 3.55's had I known I'd end up getting the Trilogy kit.

There are some board members here who have the 3.55's and the Trilogy kit, and they LUV it. I believe that Rick (aka "S/Cer #5") and Chuck (aka "TallBoy") both still have the 3.55 gears, and are both Trilogy customers. So I think that would be fine.
I wonder how low the breakoff is with that tranny. I have at least one set of 3.27s laying around if you want to try it. They are just taking up room and would probably appreciate a good home. Or they're worth a couple bucks at the scrapyard; I'm all about recycling :D

BillyGman

08-18-2005, 12:21 AM

I wonder how low the breakoff is with that tranny. I have at least one set of 3.27s laying around if you want to try it. They are just taking up room and would probably appreciate a good home. Or they're worth a couple bucks at the scrapyard; I'm all about recycling :DThanks, but since I've already performed two gear changes on my Marauder, I wouldn't look forward to doing another one. It's a big job. Maybe the pros who do them often can breeze through the job in several hours, but since I've only performed two of them myself on the Ford 8.8 rear, it's a big job to me. And since it's a lot of work, I wouldn't dream of doing all that work, and using anything but brand new gears.

BillyGman

08-18-2005, 12:31 AM

I agree with you. I've read by quite a few people to stay away from the Richmond's.
I was mainly addressing that to those individuals that believe that any gears other than FRPP are inferior or noisy. Just because you go out and buy something other than FRPP gears doesn't always mean you are doomed to listen to gear whine. I encourage anybody looking at buying a particular brand of gear to seek out others that have installed that particular brand and model of gear to see how they liked them.Yep, there are other gears that aren't noisy, however it's often easiest for the person performing the installation on a Ford 8.8 rear to use Ford gears since it usually works out that you end up using the same pinion shim thickness as the original Ford pinion gear used. You still have to take your pinion depth measurements with a depth mic, as well as measuring the backlash too, and check the teeth mesh pattern with the marking compound just to be sure, like you would with other gears.

But when you replace Ford gears with Ford gears, the mock-up installation, and measuring steps usually only need to be performed once, rather than several times like with other brands of gears that will often require a different pinion depth, and therefore different pinion shim thicknesses.

prchrman

08-18-2005, 03:13 AM

Interesting, does any one actually make different ratios for first and second
for these transmissions?

Yes they do...another thing...Richmond gears, Ford gears and others maybe-could be made by the same people anyone know? Like many products just get rubber stamped with own name...willie

Tinaree

08-18-2005, 07:56 AM

Interesting, does any one actually make different ratios for first and second
for these transmissions?
Lentech does. I don't know what the allowable range is.

rumble

08-18-2005, 09:16 AM

Lentech does. I don't know what the allowable range is.

If I have figured this right you would need to replace the 2.84
stock first gear with a 3.28 to get the same reduction with 3.55's
that the stock will get with a 4.10

Is this a practical mod for every day street use?

prchrman

08-18-2005, 10:08 AM

If I have figured this right you would need to replace the 2.84
stock first gear with a 3.28 to get the same reduction with 3.55's
that the stock will get with a 4.10

Is this a practical mod for every day street use?

For me it would be more practical for I live in the mountains and need a lower first and second gear...then on trips it would basically be the same...willie

BillyGman

08-18-2005, 11:12 AM

Yes they do... Like many products just get rubber stamped with own name...willieRichmond machines, and heat treats their own gears.

Wires

08-18-2005, 11:57 AM

Sorry if these thoughts have already been posted.

It seems that personal preference plays a large role in gear selection, as well as percentage of "highway travel."

For me, at about 25-30 percent highway, the 4.10s are just right. If I traveled on the highway 70 or 80 percent of the time, I'd want 3.90s. 100 percent, and I'd probably stay with 3.55.

If I NEVER went on the highway, then I'd have 4.30's or 4.56s, and enjoy every stoplight.

I suppose for every person, there's a similar progression.

I think that if there were a five speed available, I'd want the 4.10 rear, first-fourth the same as we have now, and a .5-.6 fifth for a 2.9-3.27 equiv. (equiv with stock .7 fourth)

I thought about going to smaller tires and lowering the ride height, but I don't want to go bigger than the 4.10 with the stock tire size. I guess I thought of that too late.

Tinaree

08-19-2005, 02:20 PM

If I have figured this right you would need to replace the 2.84
stock first gear with a 3.28 to get the same reduction with 3.55's
that the stock will get with a 4.10

Is this a practical mod for every day street use?
I really couldn't answer that, but I feel in my gut that it would be fine. Higher gearing is where you get into trouble, especially at the marauder's weight.

The one I have I got used, and have not found out the gearing but it is geared super low in 1st. I need to call lentech and see what they have on file for this tranny. This is going in the mustang, not the merc, but it will probably be set up with 4.56s as an NA daily driver. I haven't decided yet. I have no qualms about streetability. I seldom exceed more than twice the posted limit anyway :D

Of course, I'll have the ability to adjust and control all the aspects via the baumann unit, so you may want to look into what you can do to achieve the same thing. And it also will depend on the convertor used. For the drop-n-go you suggest, the stock converter may not be adequate for the stock shift points. Great question!

BillyGman

08-20-2005, 12:22 PM

This is going in the mustang, not the merc, but it will probably be set up with 4.56s as an NA daily driver.
Incase you aren't aware of this, if you do install 4.56 gears in a Ford 8.8 rear, be advised that a special cross shaft pin will be needed to complete the installation. The stock cross shaft pin CANNOT be used with the 4.56, 4.88, & 5.13 ring & pinion gear ratios in the Ford 8.8 rear end.

I wouldn't want you nor anyone else here to have to find that out the hard way like I did simply because the boneheads at Ford racing continue to neglect to even make any mention of that in their catalogue. :rolleyes: Therefore even some of their major distributors like summit Racing aren't even aware of the need for a special cross shaft pin for those three gear ratios. :shake:

And BTW, since Ford doesn't sell a special cross shaft pin either, you'll have to purchase the one that Richmond gear makes. You can get it at www.summitracing.com (http://www.summitracing.com/) for $39 (part # RMG-8002791) below is a link to the exact webpage on the Summit site.....

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=Richmond+cross +shaft+pin&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=27&y=15