Hot weather - parked with the a/c on .....

[the_pack_rat]

What's the longest amount of time you have done such a thing ?.

Today I was waiting for my wife outside the store for @ 45 min perhaps an hour. Sun was out, @ 94 degrees(heat index @ 104).

The a/c started getting a bit warm, gage was only a pinch above what it normally is(opposite the 20 mph mark). Got out popped the hood - poked around & nothing unusual(no steam/leaks - elec fan was running etc etc). Close it up, get back in the car & the a/c is getting warmer & warmer, but gage still not climbing. As I was about to come to the conclusion it was an a/c problem ... SPIKE goes the gage. NOT all the way hot, but hot enough. Down the windows go - off goes the car - up comes the hood - give it some time to cool down & see where I stand. Started it up about 10 minutes later & temps were back to just a pinch above the 20 mph mark. Drove home(10 min) kept an eye on the temp & it stayed right @ there & a/c output was back to normal.

I believe it's been said here, the OEM gage isn't the most accurate & does not move until the coolant temps have already spiked quite a bit.

I can now personally attest to that fact FIRST hand.

Regardless of all the less than ideal conditions(hot outside temps + a/c + not moving for close to an hour) ... this doesn't seem normal to me. I've done pretty much the same thing before ... & this was never a problem.

Perhaps some air got in the system ? ..... mightaswell dig out the 180 t-stat & colder plugs while I'm at it I suppose.

Time to pick up a REAL oil pressure gage along with a TEMP one too I think.

That temp gage responded WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too late, I already knew something was'nt quite right LONNNNNGGGGGG before the gage told me anything.

[Wires]

I've never parked with the engine running as long as you did, but I do notice my a/c getting warmer the longer I am setting with the car not moving.

Hopefully, someone can provide some insight.

[Zack]

Turn it to Max A/C, that should remedy the problem.
To those who dont know what Max A/C actually does, here is the explanation:
A lot of people think Max A/C just increases the blower speed. This is true, but it is recirculating and re-cooling the Air conditioned air in the cabin.
A little door opens up under the dash when you turn to Max A/C and allows the air to recirculate. This is why is gets so much cooler.

[MarauderMark]

Thanks Zack i didn't know this..:up:
Well actually since i got it back i could not do this as the temp rises .it was 100 dgs when i was running it on the highway and the temp went up to 3/4 so i opened the windows and drove w/o it on. i'll have to try it again and see what happens..

[the_pack_rat]

Turn it to Max A/C, that should remedy the problem.
To those who dont know what Max A/C actually does, here is the explanation:
A lot of people think Max A/C just increases the blower speed. This is true, but it is recirculating and re-cooling the Air conditioned air in the cabin.
A little door opens up under the dash when you turn to Max A/C and allows the air to recirculate. This is why is gets so much cooler.It was on manual Max 60 degrees at the time.

Sunshine + daytime outside temps over 80 degrees here ...

I pretty much run anything I'm driving on Max/Recirc ... makes a big difference.

[sailsmen]

Twice 2 summers ago while idleing the temp guage started to rise.

I drove the car and it went back down. I subsequently replaced the thermostat and it has not happened since.

[SergntMac]

You're absolutely right about the temp gauge. I've seen my sit still up to 230 degrees. Another member here said it's an on-off gauge just like the oil pressure, and that could be so. But, I have seen my gauge move above the normal "19 MPH" to about half, and the engine temp then was 240. So, somewhere in between triggers movement, however, much too late in the game to be any value as a performance gauge.

Don't you think it's kind of odd that we are from the four corners of the country, and likewise different climates, but our temp gauges all read the same? And despite which thermostat we have in place? Weird...

[sailsmen]

You are right about the guage.

While monitoring the coolant temp I noticed the guage read virtualy the same between 180*-235*. At around 235*-240* it moved to the 23-24 mph mark.

At this point there will be other signs she is running warm.

The guage is good to have but of limited use. I can guess that there are conditions that Ford anticipates will cause the temp to run up to 235* and they did not want people bringing it in for service if the guage was in a different place than it ususally is.

[CRUZTAKER]

I inadvertantly let mine sit 25 minutes or more in the sun with the A/C on norm.

When I returned to the car, the belts were squeeling. Turns out coolant boiled over, and onto the pullies. Temp guage was maxed out at H.

I thought I killed the car.:alone:

I let it sit, cool down, started it back up, and went on my way.

Phewww.....I'l NEVER do that again.

[shakes_26]

Memorial Day weekedn returnign out of the Keys, I sat in 101F, AC on set for 73F, for about 1.5 hrs, thats after sitting in traffic stop and go for about 2.5 hrs.

The only gripes were from the back seat about the traffic not moving. It was comf and the car temp needle sat there where it always does.

[LimoMerc]

These cars are no different than a big black TownCar in the sun. The problem is the radiators get clogged up and need to be cleaned out, but dont reach for your pressure washer just yet. Do this out of the sun with the engine cool, this will make it less likely you'll bend the fins. There is a tool that is designed to slip between the radiators and hooks to a garden hose, I can find out details tomorrow. I also remove the plastic radiator covers in the summer. An air gun works well to if you have a long enough wand.

Keep cool:coolman:

[Marauderjack]

The temp gauge on my 04 was pointing at 20 MPH from the factory and after I put in the 180* thermostat it points at 19 MPH and never moves up at all?? :confused:

I'd say the gauge works but is not calibrated....just gives an indication if it ain't where it is supposed to be?? :cool:

I have never had any overheating problems with any of the Panther cars I've owned and we see 100+ temps here in the summer too!! :bows:

Marauderjack :D

[Wires]

Since my car is at the dealer anyway, I'll have them check that out - it sounds like my fan isn't running.

Thanks for the info and sorry for kinda tagging onto the other question.

[jfclancy]

[QUOTE=the_pack_rat]What's the longest amount of time you have done such a thing ?.

Well with the price of gas why did you not just get out of car? OOps sorry
It seems to me the coolant in our air conditioners is far less efficent than the old good stuff, Probably need some movement of the car for best results
I know MAX recycles air but once it gets warm it just keeps getting worse. Works fine if you get the inside cool first then put on MAX. It was 103 here the other day actual temp not thi and my air worked fine. But then again I am cheap over 3 minutes waiting I shut 'er down all alumi engine don't you know. Hope you did not hurt anything.

Joe Clancy :beer: :beer: :beer:

[the_pack_rat]

Well with the price of gas why did you not just get out of car? OOps sorry
It seems to me the coolant in our air conditioners is far less efficent than the old good stuff, Probably need some movement of the car for best results
I know MAX recycles air but once it gets warm it just keeps getting worse. Works fine if you get the inside cool first then put on MAX. It was 103 here the other day actual temp not thi and my air worked fine. But then again I am cheap over 3 minutes waiting I shut 'er down all alumi engine don't you know. Hope you did not hurt anything.
Joe Clancy :beer: :beer: :beer:Sit there & sweat my jewels off ?!?!?!?!

That wasn't gonna happen ... not until I saw there was a problem :P

Didn't hurt anything, but I am noticing I'm having to set the a/c to a lower temp, even after I've been in there awhile & moving. My 75-78 degree Max setting doesn't seem to be working as well as it once did.

The t-stat must be getting funky or there is some air in there ..... the 180 stat & colder plugs need to go in.

[ahess77]

One additional thing that many of us have are underdrive pulleys. So when you're sitting at idle, your AC isn't turning as fast as it was intended on a stock motor.
I find that if I'm sitting in traffic for an extended duration I have to put it in neutral and rev to 1500 rpm to keep it cool for 2 reason, to turn the AC compressor faster and to get the voltage up for the blower motor in the HVAC.

[ahess77]

Hey,
Who replied to this old thread?

Sorry, it was highlighted at the bottom of the screen after a search.

[Aren Jay]

It is a good thing to know though and added new info to old threads is better than starting a new thread.

One would think that the temp guage is just a warning if something is wrong. Not a real guage. If within a tolerance it displays normal. If it goes above the tolerance it raises rapidly. Pull over, turn ac off or if you can't pull over or turn the engine off, roll the windows down and turn the heat on full.

[ghost03]

Its funny this post popped up . Last night my car was sitting with the A/C on along side the beach for 30 minutes or so and when I got in the car to drive away the car felt very sluggish. Looked at my temp gauge and it was 3/4 up instead of the normal 20MPH mark. Turned off the A/C and started to drive and the temp went back to normal.

This morning I went to go top off the fluid just in case eventhough I didnt see any leaks and it was pretty much full.Hopefully it was just an air bubble and not something more serious

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks sitting around with the air on without driving the car is just asking for trouble?? I wouldn't even leave mine for 10 min, let alone over an hour :eek:

[cyclopsram]

Yup, no idling is better for the car and for the environment... Some countries allow no idling...even shutting off engine at red lights is required... no warming up to melt frost either....we are a bunch of softies..

[Smokie]

Yes an old thread but worth revisiting. Let me offer some personal experiences. I owned the MM. since '02 and a Crown Vic since '95.

Neither car has ever overheated or failed to provide cold A/C output in situations where I sat in a parking lot waiting for my wife for as long as one hour, that should be easy for our cars. Much harder on the cooling system and A/C is being caught in a traffic jam on the interstate where I have been trapped without a means of escape for as long as 2 hours AND traveled about 1 mile in those 2 hours with a total of 5 people in the car.

Remember our cars are used by LEO's for a reason: they can idle all day long without overheating, yes I know the police package has a better alternator but the A/C is the same.

If your car overheats idling in Park your idle speed is too low...or you have a problem, the car can easily take extended idle times*.

* My opinion is based on personal observation and long time ownership of panther platforms.

[Shora]

I guess I'm the only one here who thinks sitting around with the air on without driving the car is just asking for trouble?? I wouldn't even leave mine for 10 min, let alone over an hour :eek:

In my line of work, I contract local police officers on a very regular bases.

I can honestly say, that 99% of the time, they leave the car idling with the A/C on for hours (2-3) easy. They do this in the summer months in the South FL sun and don't seem to have any problems.

For example, I used them everyday for the last 3 weeks and the temps were in the mid to high 90s and they never turned off their cars. (BTW, they ALL loved my brother's and my Marauders).

It's sad if our cars cannot handle 30-60 minutes once in a blue moon.

[Jon01]

The a/c system isn't as efficient sitting at idle as moving because there is no airflow over the condensor to bleed off the head, it functions similar to a radiator.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Thats right, I didn't even think about p71s, Ive always noticed police always keep their cars on, with/without air conditioning on. Although I still would'nt do it.

[OneBADLsE]

I would never idle any car for close to an hour(personally). Not even on my 2v.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I run mine for very long periods of time w/ the AC on in the sun,idling, occasionally (ever heard of Washington DC area traffic?). So does everyone else driving a Lincoln in New York. This should not cause a problem. CHeck it out.

[RCSignals]

P71s have higher idle speed, and an engine oil cooler.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I find that if I'm sitting in traffic for an extended duration I have to put it in neutral and rev to 1500 rpm to keep it cool for 2 reason, to turn the AC compressor faster and to get the voltage up for the blower motor in the HVAC.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Oh man. I would expect this from an 80s clunker, not a 35k car. Is it really worth it to save a few HP by driving important accessories slow enough that they don't work well anymore? I have an old crappy car to drive if I want no AC!

[ckadiddle]

I had the temp spike thing a while back. Temp would shoot up, then drop back down to normal by the time I got pulled over out of traffic to check it out. Dealer replaced some electric fan switchy thingy to correct it.

[RCSignals]

I find that if I'm sitting in traffic for an extended duration I have to put it in neutral and rev to 1500 rpm to keep it cool for 2 reason, to turn the AC compressor faster and to get the voltage up for the blower motor in the HVAC.


Oh man. I would expect this from an 80s clunker, not a 35k car. Is it really worth it to save a few HP by driving important accessories slow enough that they don't work well anymore? I have an old crappy car to drive if I want no AC!


You should have quoted his whole post, instead of only part of it. Do you think a 35K car with underdrive pulleys won't experience this?
I do think his experience is a bit extreme, but it may just be because he has a blue.


One additional thing that many of us have are underdrive pulleys. So when you're sitting at idle, your AC isn't turning as fast as it was intended on a stock motor.
I find that if I'm sitting in traffic for an extended duration I have to put it in neutral and rev to 1500 rpm to keep it cool for 2 reason, to turn the AC compressor faster and to get the voltage up for the blower motor in the HVAC.

[larryo340]

Oh man. I would expect this from an 80s clunker, not a 35k car. Is it really worth it to save a few HP by driving important accessories slow enough that they don't work well anymore? I have an old crappy car to drive if I want no AC!
I have to agree^^^^^^^^
It's hard to justify the very low HP increase with underive pulleys with the downside of voltage and the all important A/C. On a daily driver or a car you use often I would leave the pulleys alone. Besides when you go to W.O.T. the A/C shuts off, and if I'm not mistaken doesn't the alternator shut down some at W.O.T. ?

[RCSignals]

I have to agree^^^^^^^^
It's hard to justify the very low HP increase with underive pulleys with the downside of voltage and the all important A/C. On a daily driver or a car you use often I would leave the pulleys alone. Besides when you go to W.O.T. the A/C shuts off, and if I'm not mistaken doesn't the alternator shut down some at W.O.T. ?

an Engineer decided on the stock pulley sizes for optimum performance in everyday use, changing that you have to expect consequences to some degree.

The alternator can be shut off when WOT through custom tuning. I'm not sure it's a factory default

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

Saturday, 115 in sunny southern cal - parked for 35 minutes no problem staying cold. I love this car.

[69mach1]

I think one possibility(after a long period) is the condenser inside the is car icing up and stopping air flow through the condenser there by stopping cold air from coming out the dash. By changing from “max” A/C to "regular"A/C it brings in warm air(instead of recirculating cabin air) from outside and the condenser(inside) won’t freeze up.
My 2 cents from the peanut gallery. (don't know if the nomenclature is correct but the theory is )

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[racorcey]

I think one possibility(after a long period) is the condenser inside the is car icing up and stopping air flow through the condenser there by stopping cold air from coming out the dash. By changing from “max” A/C to "regular"A/C it brings in warm air(instead of recirculating cabin air) from outside and the condenser(inside) won’t freeze up.
My 2 cents from the peanut gallery. (don't know if the nomenclature is correct but the theory is )

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Under most circumstances you would be correct. However....on 2003+ CV, GM, MM, and Lincolns, Ford went to a rather simple anti core freeze-up system. They placed a thermistor (same type as that used for the outside temp measurement) on the outlet side of the evap core. You can see it by popping up the hood and looking at the top of the evap cover. There's an electrical connector with two wires going to what looks like a plastic plug on the driver's side of the evap cover. It's basically a twist-n-lock type plug. That plug contains a termistor that sits right directly in front of the outlet side of the evap core. It's tied directly to the PCM. When the evap outlet temperature gets down to between 38 and 40 degrees F, the PCM switches off the a/c compressor. It just continues to cycle this way, keeping the core from freezing up.

This method is now used in place of the older style low-side refrigerant pressure switch. It's advantage is that it's about impossible to freeze up the evap core. It's disadvantage is that it's not calibrated closely enough to let the evap core get down to about 34 degrees like the older method of control. Add in the fact that the firewall adds in about 5 to 8 degrees of heat on top of what's coming out of the core, and what you have are dash outlet temperatures that run about 42 to 44 degrees at best. That's why a lot of us are complaining about the a/c not being quite a "cool" or "efficient" as the pre-2003 Ford cars. And that's with a properly operating system!

I've often thought about seeing if it were possible to make a high-resistance "shunt", calibrated such that it would fool the evap thermistor by about 4 degrees warmer. In other words, at an evap outlet temp of 34 deg F, the total resistance back to the PCM would look like it was really about 38 deg. That extra four degrees makes a difference! Since the thermistor is a NTC device (negative temp coeficient), a resistive shunt is possible. However, since it's not a linear device, this complicates things a bit. I just don't have the time to work on it. Maybe someone else can pick up the slack. I believe the Ford Service Manual lists the resistance values at different temps. Or you could just take out yours, shove it in the Fridge and experiment.:)