With the gas mileage concerns...

[O's Fan Rich]

Just wondering if Lidio, or others, are working on a program for increased economy?
I picture a daily driver tune that gets the max economy with a lower octane need.
Then on weekends or special occasions change the tune to a more spirited version?

Just thinking......

[STLR FN]

I was thinking the same thing. Can someone shed some light?
Just wondering if Lidio, or others, are working on a program for increased economy?
I picture a daily driver tune that gets the max economy with a lower octane need.
Then on weekends or special occasions change the tune to a more spirited version?

Just thinking......

[SergntMac]

My MM is at Sutton Ford right now, getting new fuel pumps. When I get the call it's ready, I will ask Jerry VanDerlinde. Hang on one day, eh?

[MERCMAN]

I am sure that a tune can let you burn lower octane, but to maximise MPG?? I would think that only a tune to the right foot would do that :rofl:

[O's Fan Rich]

My MM is at Sutton Ford right now, getting new fuel pumps. When I get the call it's ready, I will ask Jerry VanDerlinde. Hang on one day, eh?


Can do, Sarge.

[Lidio]

Its hard to squeeze significantly better mileage from some of today’s computer cars. Their already maximized very good these days. Today’s computer controlled engines try to run as closely as possible to an air fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1. As long as your not to deep into the pedal forcing the computer to go “open loop” which generally makes most engines run a little richer so they perform better at WOT or near WOT.

The tune that I offer for the MM’s and many other Ford’s keeps them in closed loop at light and medium throttle just like the stock tune. I run slightly more timing at cruise to make the engine hopefully get a little better mileage and of course run as much timing as possible at WOT to get as much power as we can with out spark knock. Although because of what I do with lock up or lack their of below 63ish miles per hour for a performance and response gain, the mileage in the city tends to go down a little or stay about the same as the stock tune if you drive conservatively.

There are a couple of little things that can be done in the tune that can make today’s computer controlled Ford’s run a little tiny bit leaner at cruise conditions by making the o2’s bias at the high end of the target 14.7 to one A/F. I’ve only played with this a little with my MM when it was stock and really didn’t spend enough time with it to validate that it worked, plus I heard from other tuners that it was minimal at best. So I never pushed it any further and concentrated on making the custom MM tune I offer excel in all the other areas that I felt where either compromised or short comings in the stock tune for better performance.

A lot of people aren’t aware of this but today’s automotive computer calibration guys have the ability to get much better gas mileage out of today’s computer cars by running them leaner then 14.7 to 1 under light load and cruise conditions. You can thank the environmental groups or EPA or one of those for not letting this happen. Supposedly when you run them leaner then 14.7 to 1 to achieve better mileage… one of the emissions goes up at the same time. So the factory tuners are forced to make sure that they for the most part run right at or as close as possible to 14.7 to1 all the time except for WOT.



Thanks

[cyclone03]

With a 3000 stall converter,Kooks system and a tune from DR that keeps the converter locked under light to med throttle in 3rd and OD I get 25-27 mpg on the highway @ 70-80 mph. Start working the throttle the mileage drops to the 21-23 range.Stop and go mixed I'm in the 19-21 range. So Cal dead stopped to 75mph I'm at 16-18.

My normal drive to work has me at only 45mph max with a long wait of at least 15 mins in line to get on Base my mileage drops to 15 or so.
The Converter eats 2 mpg easy in stop and go driving.

Besides what Lideo said above about A/F mixtures I would think keeping the converter locked on the highway may help sqeeze 1-2mpg out of a stock MM.
Ever notice what feels like a down shift at about 50mph with med throtle? Thats the converter unlocking.

[usafsniper]

I've started experimenting with the Acetone additive suggested in a post about a week ago, and so far have managed to squeeze about 2mpg more out of mine in the city which puts me right at 20mpg. The only mods I have are a JLT CAI and Dennis's 3.55 tune. I'm still in the testing stage trying different gas stations and the right amount of acetone. I'm at 2oz per 10 gallons now, with the suggested amounts being between 1 to 3 ounces per 10 gallons. An easy way to figure it is to multiply .1, .2, or .3 times the amount of untreated fuel you put in at fill up, and use that many ounces to treat your tank. Using 2oz, a 19 gallon tank (multiply by .2) would need 3.8oz of Acetone. If you do this, make sure the label says 100% Acetone because sometimes it's diluted with other chemicals.

[MENINBLK]

I'm running K&N AirCharger, with mostly everything stock, and Lidio's tune.
I'm averaging 20 mpg in sandals, 18 mpg in sneakers, and 15 mpg in my cruising shoes.
Tuning your right foot has a lot to do with MPG...

[jonroe]

I have had Lidio's tune now for about 3 weeks including a vacation trip to the beach. I have seen little or no change in mpg. I got 24 on the highway on the beach trip and continue to get 19 - 20 at home with a mix of city/highway. The best you can do is drive more conservatively. I will NOT trade the vastly improved city drivability with lock-up off against a tiny increase in city mpg.

Jon

[Bluerauder]

:laugh: :laugh:

I'm averaging 20 mpg in sandals, 18 mpg in sneakers, and 15 mpg in my cruising shoes. Tuning your right foot has a lot to do with MPG...
So true ......... but I think that I would need a full right leg, ankle and foot cast on before I see any substantial improvement in MPG. I just love hearing those pipes too much. :rofl:

I have noticed that I am getting much better performance out of the $3.29 gas than the $2.79 stuff. :rolleyes:

[SergntMac]

I'm looking forward to a road trip to Reinhart's in a few weeks, and my concern is for tolerance of lesser grade gasoline. I'll deal with the cost of fuel, but I am worried about availability.

At some gas stations local to me, 93 octane is "not available" but 91 and 87 are, and at reasonable (considering the present market conditions) PPG. Since I have a lower compression engine, I asked Jerry and Zack about loading a conservative tune into my HHP for the trip. They said it could be done simply by backing up on the initial timing, and adding a few safeguards that may help me and nurse my right foot through the trip. I'm also wary of greedy dealers loading their 93 octane tanks with lower grades. Same efect as gouging, less chance of getting caught.

Those of us who have HHPs, have some flexibility with our tune that may be beneficial. Whether you are tuned by Reinhart, or, Lidio, it's SCT software, and I'm told it can be done.

Zack?

[MM03MOK]

Sounds like a good safeguard, Mac. Would high-volume truck stops be safer choices for gas? Might be good to pack your CB too. Dan can hold all the electronics in his lap.

[SergntMac]

I've started experimenting with the Acetone additive suggested in a post about a week ago, and so far have managed to squeeze about 2mpg more out of mine in the city which puts me right at 20mpg. The only mods I have are a JLT CAI and Dennis's 3.55 tune. I'm still in the testing stage trying different gas stations and the right amount of acetone. I'm at 2oz per 10 gallons now, with the suggested amounts being between 1 to 3 ounces per 10 gallons. An easy way to figure it is to multiply .1, .2, or .3 times the amount of untreated fuel you put in at fill up, and use that many ounces to treat your tank. Using 2oz, a 19 gallon tank (multiply by .2) would need 3.8oz of Acetone. If you do this, make sure the label says 100% Acetone because sometimes it's diluted with other chemicals.
I did a search of "acetone" here and came up with a lot of opinions, favorable to unfavorable. Please keep us posted on your progress, live data always impresses me over links to articles and "professional" opinions. Thanks, good luck with your study.

[Zack]

Anyone with ANY power adder or not can run 87 octane, but performance will drop off significantly.
Im one of the only members who have the SCT Software, so I have the ability to make the necessary changes myself.
To run 87 octane AND be safe at all throttle positions, you simply pull timing.
I attempted to paste the screen from the software here, but failed.
Just pull about 6 degrees of timing at all loads and rpm's and you should be fine.

[O's Fan Rich]

I'm looking forward to a road trip to Reinhart's in a few weeks, and my concern is for tolerance of lesser grade gasoline. I'll deal with the cost of fuel, but I am worried about availability.

At some gas stations local to me, 93 octane is "not available" but 91 and 87 are, and at reasonable (considering the present market conditions) PPG. Since I have a lower compression engine, I asked Jerry and Zack about loading a conservative tune into my HHP for the trip. They said it could be done simply by backing up on the initial timing, and adding a few safeguards that may help me and nurse my right foot through the trip. I'm also wary of greedy dealers loading their 93 octane tanks with lower grades. Same efect as gouging, less chance of getting caught.

Those of us who have HHPs, have some flexibility with our tune that may be beneficial. Whether you are tuned by Reinhart, or, Lidio, it's SCT software, and I'm told it can be done.

Zack?


That's part of my concern, and if 89 octane is cheaper, I'd like to buy it for daily use... safely.
I can carry my tuner, and switch tunes at the pump if needed.

[teamrope]

A lot of people aren’t aware of this but today’s automotive computer calibration guys have the ability to get much better gas mileage out of today’s computer cars by running them leaner then 14.7 to 1 under light load and cruise conditions. You can thank the environmental groups or EPA or one of those for not letting this happen. Supposedly when you run them leaner then 14.7 to 1 to achieve better mileage… one of the emissions goes up at the same time. So the factory tuners are forced to make sure that they for the most part run right at or as close as possible to 14.7 to1 all the time except for WOT.



Thanks

Thanks Lidio, you just answered a question I have been asking myself for some time now. I've often wondered why I was able to get up to 30 MPG out of my 82 GM with a 5.0, and only one time 24 MPG out of the MM.

[usafsniper]

Anyone with ANY power adder or not can run 87 octane, but performance will drop off significantly.
Im one of the only members who have the SCT Software, so I have the ability to make the necessary changes myself.
To run 87 octane AND be safe at all throttle positions, you simply pull timing.
I attempted to paste the screen from the software here, but failed.
Just pull about 6 degrees of timing at all loads and rpm's and you should be fine.


You talking about the tuning program you can download from their web site? I've got it and an XCalibrator 2, but haven't played with the program yet. I'm assumuing I only have to sync in the XCalibrator to my computer, open the current tune, save it as tune #2, make the necessary adjustments and then reload the car?

[metroplex]

Lidio: Do you happen to know how much leaner we need to go for better gas mileage? 5% leaner than 14.64:1? Boost EGR to reduce NOx?

MI does not have emission inspection, so high NOx is not an issue.
I'm sure the kind classy folks here in SE MI that run cars w/o cats and have plastic bags for windows put the same amount of thought into the environment as the rest of us.

Currently my Vic gets 13-14 mpg in the city. If I can score an extra 1-2 mpg, it would be worth it.

BTW, Acetone did nothing for my gas mileage.

[FordNut]

Lidio: Do you happen to know how much leaner we need to go for better gas mileage? 5% leaner than 14.64:1? Boost EGR to reduce NOx?

MI does not have emission inspection, so high NOx is not an issue.
I'm sure the kind classy folks here in SE MI that run cars w/o cats and have plastic bags for windows put the same amount of thought into the environment as the rest of us.

Currently my Vic gets 13-14 mpg in the city. If I can score an extra 1-2 mpg, it would be worth it.

BTW, Acetone did nothing for my gas mileage.
Based on what my tuner tells me, there is no way with the OEM PCM to control the closed loop AFR. The PCM always goes for 14.7:1, but when the car is at WOT the PCM goes into open loop control and uses the programmed values. However, if you change the base timing so that the car can use lower octane fuel there is a double benefit in that lower octane fuel produces better mileage and it's cheaper.

[metroplex]

Based on what my tuner tells me, there is no way with the OEM PCM to control the closed loop AFR. The PCM always goes for 14.7:1, but when the car is at WOT the PCM goes into open loop control and uses the programmed values. However, if you change the base timing so that the car can use lower octane fuel there is a double benefit in that lower octane fuel produces better mileage and it's cheaper.
I am using the factory base timing and my gas mileage is actually worse with 87 octane fuel. SCT's 93 octane base timing actually pulls timing from the off-idle to light cruise load ranges (but increases timing at 50%+ load by as much as 13-16* at the very high RPM regime) Could that have something to do with it?

[Lidio]

Lidio: Do you happen to know how much leaner we need to go for better gas mileage? 5% leaner than 14.64:1? Boost EGR to reduce NOx?

MI does not have emission inspection, so high NOx is not an issue.
I'm sure the kind classy folks here in SE MI that run cars w/o cats and have plastic bags for windows put the same amount of thought into the environment as the rest of us.

Currently my Vic gets 13-14 mpg in the city. If I can score an extra 1-2 mpg, it would be worth it.

BTW, Acetone did nothing for my gas mileage.

There are a couple of minor adjustments that can be made for o2 bias that could potentially make them get a tad better mileage. But this adjustment is limited to about 3% richer or leaner from 14.7:1 and some vehicles because of chamber design, EGR etc... cant handle any leaner then 14.7. I've messed with this a little on other cars and got no real results so I left it alone. One of the main things that can help for better mileage is increased timing at light and medium loads like I tried to do with all our tunes. And above all, conservative driving.

I've always left EGR stuff alone because this can cause a flat or poor feel in the engines tune if to aggressive. So as far as EGR for the most part I've left alone.

Thanks