Is EGR Necessary???

[Marauderjack]

Is the EGR system necessary??? :confused:

Seems to me that venting HOT exhaust gas into the engine is counter productive if a cool air charge works better?? :rolleyes:

Has anyone played with deleting EGR or can it even be done...any benefit?? :bows:

Marauderjack :)

[Zack]

Just deleted mine.
Cap the header and plug the Egr.
Change a 1 to a 2 in the software and youre done.
Havent calculated MPG changes yet, but I dont care anyway.

[David Morton]

EGR is definitely necessary. It is there to cool off combustion temperatures so less oxides of nitrogen are created.

I know it sounds backwards, hot exhaust gases + cool air fuel mixture = cooler combustion, but the exhaust gases have almost no oxygen and therefore act as ballast.

You can't eliminate your EGR without changing the tune in ways that affect every other system since this basic premise of using measured amounts of exhaust gases affects timing, air and fuel calculations. (Sorry Zack, changing a 1 to a 2 may work as far as not blowing it up but you don't care what I'm breathing anyways, right?)

Not to mention it will void your warranty (emissions warranties are required to be 100,000 miles by Federal law) and decertify your car and that allows the Feds to confiscate it, should they ever decide to start doing so.

[MikesMerc]

many have done what zack did.
Plugged the exhaust bung and capped the intake port.
Tweaked the software.
Runs great and looks good too (much "cleaner" look).

Mileage...dropped about 1-2 mpg on average based on reports.

Of course, this mod is not recommended for those worried about mileage or being fully emission legal.

[RVT04]

EGR is definitely necessary. It is there to cool off combustion temperatures so less oxides of nitrogen are created.

I know it sounds backwards, hot exhaust gases + cool air fuel mixture = cooler combustion, but the exhaust gases have almost no oxygen and therefore act as ballast.

You can't eliminate your EGR without changing the tune in ways that affect every other system since this basic premise of using measured amounts of exhaust gases affects timing, air and fuel calculations. (Sorry Zack, changing a 1 to a 2 may work as far as not blowing it up but you don't care what I'm breathing anyways, right?)

Not to mention it will void your warranty (emissions warranties are required to be 100,000 miles by Federal law) and decertify your car and that allows the Feds to confiscate it, should they ever decide to start doing so.

yep that is the truth, plus if you live in a non-attainment area like i do it won't pass the snifferanymore
and no sticker means no drivey

[Zack]

You can't eliminate your EGR without changing the tune in ways that affect every other system since this basic premise of using measured amounts of exhaust gases affects timing, air and fuel calculations. (Sorry Zack, changing a 1 to a 2 may work as far as not blowing it up but you don't care what I'm breathing anyways, right?)

Not to mention it will void your warranty (emissions warranties are required to be 100,000 miles by Federal law) and decertify your car and that allows the Feds to confiscate it, should they ever decide to start doing so.

When a car is tuned David, the EGR does not function at WOT. When cruising, the computer will command 14.7:1 A/F regardless. The O2 sensors are the computers helper in making these changes when not at WOT.
As for emissions laws, the egr tube is so hidden on the Marauder, It is highly unlikely it will ever be noticed missing. You dont even have to remove the egr tube. Changing the 1 to a 2 simply prevents the EGR Valve from allowing hot gases into the intake. The reason most eliminate it is to create the coolest intake charge possible, thus producing more power.

[David Morton]

Agreed Zack and I'm not criticizing, just putting out the info. I wasn't aware the newer computers had a program that didn't allow any EGR at all.

One more thing to think about, if the Feds ever get around to taking peoples cars off the road it won't be visual inspections that get people. They'll be using sniffers, and if your's says "High NoX" you can bet they'll look to see if it's been removed.

The law provides a $25,000 fine for each instance somebody tampers, removes or disables any emissions device for pay. You can also get brought in for questioning in the case of deliberate tampering. Back in '93 when the Dems had some control over government the scuttlebutt from the reps was that they were looking into the computer sending info to a satellite about faults and then the owner getting a notice to repair and if the deadline passed with no repair registered, the satellite then disabled the car for the next key cycle! Then the republicans took the house in '94 and things settled down. But the pendulumn swings brother and the trend has always been towards more government interference, regardless of what either side runs on. I think both sides of the isle are liars.

So guys that just have a problem will get notices and time deadlines to have repairs made, but guys that have EGRs' or Cats' removed will likely have their cars impounded, pending an investigation. IF (and I say when) the EPA starts getting serious about emissions laws.

Sorry about the downer guys. :bigcry:

[Joe Walsh]

The reason most eliminate it is to create the coolest intake charge possible, thus producing more power.


I find it hard to believe that eliminating the EGR will create a noticeable HP increase..... :dunno: :confused:

But, if you guys feel it works, have at it!

Here in Maryland we have emissions inspections every other year, so tampering with the EGR is not worth any small/perceived gains.

[Pat]

FYI; the EGR system was discussed in a previous thread, some additional info may be had. www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15617 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15617)

[Marauderjack]

Linky...."Not Found"??? :confused:

I have complained about my car "bucking" slightly in TC lockup at constant speed or slight acceleration!! I remember the same symtoms with a CV I had and it was a bad EGR.....Can it be cleaned?? :cool:

Checked on the price and it is about $80.00 but the "gasket" is $25.00??? Wonder if it is needed?? :confused:

Marauderjack :D

[BlackHole]

Checked on the price and it is about $80.00 but the "gasket" is $25.00??? Wonder if it is needed?? :confused:

Marauderjack :D

The gasket is very well needed or you well have a slight chance of carbon monoxied/N2O leaking around the valve. And thouse creating another pollution point on the car

[Rider90]

What if you live in a county that does not do any emissions testing?

If my cats were removed intentionally, this is illegal - right?

But if my cats were to fail unknowingly, there is no emissions testing through-out the county, so how am I to know? Is that stand point also illegal?

I disconnected the EGR on my 04 F-250 6.0L and noticed no difference, but mentally things were working better.

[MitchB]

EGR is NOT necessary, but it is desirable. EGR works only at part throttle. A good EGR setup will give you better fuel economy without impacting overall performance. Discounting very limited situations, I see no benefit in eliminating it.

Mitch

[Warpath]

EGR can increase hp since as David mentioned, its a buffer and lower combustion flame temperature. That lowered temp can allow advanced timing. Its similar to water/methanol injection except egr doesn't burn and it is usually entered into the intake hot. I've heard about cooled egr but I don't know what production engines use it. The opposing arguement to keeping egr is that it takes up space that could be used by air and fuel. The additional air and fuel make more hp. But, I don't know if its more than advancing timing with egr would give you.

[CRUZTAKER]

Interesting reading...I learned something I believe.

Ironically enough, the EGR has been the root of a recent dilemma. My 92 Vic has recently stalled while driving at 25 mph or so and frequently at stop lights. Going through the toll gates was embarrassing. I'd have to put the car in neutral when it would start to rough idle at a stop light to avoid the stall. The 'check engine' light would come on, and stay on after the restart for a few miles, and then go off again a few miles down the road. These events occurred once or twice a day starting early last week while in Chicago.

I pulled the codes today. I had a total of 12 EGR fail codes. I just replaced the EGR valve switch, and tube 9 months ago...but never the valve assy.

I learned these particular parts are a PITA to replace on a Vic, cost way too money, and seem to go bad right after the first owner sells the car.:shake:

[the_pack_rat]

Interesting reading...I learned something I believe.

Ironically enough, the EGR has been the root of a recent dilemma. My 92 Vic has recently stalled while driving at 25 mph or so and frequently at stop lights. Going through the toll gates was embarrassing. I'd have to put the car in neutral when it would start to rough idle at a stop light to avoid the stall. The 'check engine' light would come on, and stay on after the restart for a few miles, and then go off again a few miles down the road. These events occurred once or twice a day starting early last week while in Chicago.

I pulled the codes today. I had a total of 12 EGR fail codes. I just replaced the EGR valve switch, and tube 9 months ago...but never the valve assy.

I learned these particular parts are a PITA to replace on a Vic, cost way too money, and seem to go bad right after the first owner sells the car.:shake:Have you cleaned out the ports lately ?.

The NON plastic intake 4.6's(91-95) EGR ports are notorious for getting all plugged up.

[CRUZTAKER]

Have you cleaned out the ports lately ?.

The NON plastic intake 4.6's(92-95) EGR ports are notorious for getting all plugged up.
And how does one do that....?:confused:

[the_pack_rat]

And how does one do that....?:confused: Check these out :

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article15.html

http://www.crownvic.us/forum/showthread.php?t=13208&highlight=EGR

Ford should have included this in the recommended maintenance schedule section of the owners packet ...... much like the window regulators & the 96+ 2V cracking intake manifolds :rolleyes:.

Hope it helps you.

[CRUZTAKER]

Thanks a bunch Eric....I...well not I, but Bradley's cronies, are all over this now. Great articles, and good picks to boot.

:up:

[David Morton]

.... much like the window regulators & the 96+ 2V cracking intake manifolds :rolleyes:.

Hope it helps you.I just got notified of a class action settlement on the cracking intake manifold. I paid $1000 plus to replace the intake on my old '97 GM three years ago. I will use the money to pay for new tires. $496 for the two 555R Nittos for the track and the rest for a set of 4 KDW2s' for the street.

I wish they would send me one for the window regulator that broke too.

[Marauderjack]

David Morton.....

Are the EGR valves on our cars prone to clogging like the older CV's?? If so are they cleanable or do you just have them replaced?? :confused:

Marauderjack :(