An Interesting Article About Speeding

[Dan]

Hey Gang,

This is a great article which contains a lot of facts about speed limits and highway deaths. A lot of it will go against much of what the societal safety nannies and the insurance co.'s would have us believe so approach with an open mind or you might not like the article.

Best,

Dan

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8734

The Nation's Pulse
Safe at Any Speed
By Eric Peters
Published 9/13/2005 12:06:52 AM

You can now drive 80 mph -- legally -- in the state of Texas; 75 in
twelve other states, including Arizona, Colorado and Oklahoma.
Eighteen states, among them California, Michigan and Florida, have
raised their upper limit to 70 mph.

Only Hawaii still "drives 55."

So -- with the exception of the poor Hawaiians -- one can now
lawfully drive 15-20 mph faster than the formerly sacrosanct 55 mph
National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL), which Congress repealed ten
years ago, in 1995.

Prior to 1995, driving at those speeds was "speeding," even "reckless
driving," and put one at risk of a fat fine, loss of license, and
high insurance premiums. The line was this was necessary for reasons
of "safety"; that is, speeds in excess of 55 mph were dangerous
because people were more likely to get into accidents and be hurt or
killed.

We were being ticketed for our own good, you see.

BUT AN INTERESTING THING happened after the NMSL was finally repealed
in 1995. Contrary to the line we were being spoon-fed about "safety,"
motor vehicle accident and fatality rates actually dropped. They have
continued to do so. The latest data (for 2004) show yet another
decrease -- to just 1.46 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles
traveled (VMT).

This is the lowest the nation's fatality rate has ever been.

If "speed" necessarily "kills," then -- ipso facto -- there should be
rivers of blood and twisted steel in states like Texas, Arizona,
Tennessee, and Florida, where people now routinely (and lawfully)
drive 70-80 mph. Things should be notably "safer" in Hawaii.

But no.

The accident/fatality rate in states with much-higher-than-55 mph
limits has not gone up. ("Revenue" from trumped-up speeding tickets
may have gone down, of course, but that's got little to do with
whether the roads are safer.) Higher limits are not leading to the
Mad Max scenario we were warned of in often hysterical bleats by
those opposed to lifting the NMSL. The objective data simply does not
support any of that.

Indeed, quite the opposite. The data suggest that higher-than-55
speeds are, in fact, safer than "driving 55."

If they are not, one must come up with a rational explanation for the
downturn in accident/fatality rates since 1995. The ghost of Dale
Earnhardt is not watching over a nation of "reckless maniacs,"
shielding them from the consequences of their crazy driving.

We're driving faster -- and we're driving more safely.

It's actually an easy thing to explain why this is so -- and,
hopefully, to understand.


OUR HIGHWAY SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED for average speeds in the 70-75 mph
range. The federal government gave us the 55 mph NMSL as a fuel-
saving measure in response to the gas shortages of the early 1970s.
It may have been well intentioned, but the 55 mph NMSL set the
precedent for politically contrived (and artificially low) speed
limits that had nothing to do with safe, appropriate speeds for a
given stretch of road. Motorists were being pulled over and ticketed
for no good reason, and most knew it in their gut. They were driving
70-something before the NMSL, when, suddenly, by the stroke of a pen,
what had been lawful, safe rates of travel well within the design
specification of the road had become illegal "speeding."

The corruption spread. Under-posted speed limits became the rule
rather than the exception. Nearly every road in the country was
afflicted with a posted maximum lawful speed 5, 10, 15 -- even 20 --
mph lower than the 85th percentile speed for that road. The "85th
percentile" is the speed at which the majority of cars on a given
road are traveling; this is the standard according to which all speed
limits are supposed to be set under the guidelines of the "Manual on
Uniform Traffic Control Devices," the "bible" of traffic safety
engineering. The MUTCD and its guidelines are, however, routinely
ignored -- and lower-than-reasonable limits posted that turn nearly
ever driver into a "speeder" subject to being ticketed at any time.

And that, of course, is the nut of the deal. Speed enforcement, to a
great extent, is about money, not "safety." Most motorists can't help
driving close to 85th percentile speeds -- and with the natural flow
of traffic -- rather than hewing to an artificially low limit, even
if it opens them up to a "speeding" ticket. State and local
authorities know this, and know how much money can be raised through
traffic tickets. This is why there was so much resistance to getting
rid of the NMSL.

But now the cat is out of the bag. Or at least, his head is.
The "speed kills" lie has been exposed.

It's taken more than 25 years, from time the NMSL was imposed to its
repeal in '95, to get highway speed limits back to where they were.
And to free America's motorists from the tyranny of being ticketed at
every turn for "violating" posted limits that themselves were in
violation of both traffic safety engineering principles (MUTCD) and
common sense.

With any luck, the unshackling will continue -- and the rest of
the "revenue enhancement" speed trap racket shut down at the state
and local levels, too.


Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive
Atrocities: Cars We Love to Hate (MBI).

[SergntMac]

Nothing is more fun to play with than "stats".

Chicago's homicide rate is at an all-time low at the present time. Why? Fewer guns on the street? Better law enforcement? Quicker response to crimes in progress? Improved citizen interaction? Bigger guns for cops?

Nope...None of them are the correct answer, anyone want to guess?

Trust me, the answer is related to this topic.

[Stock03]

Aging population?





Nothing is more fun to play with than "stats".

Chicago's homicide rate is at an all-time low at the present time. Why? Fewer guns on the street? Better law enforcement? Quicker response to crimes in progress? Improved citizen interaction? Bigger guns for cops?

Nope...None of them are the correct answer, anyone want to guess?

Trust me, the answer is related to this topic.

[THE_INTERCEPTOR]

Nope...None of them are the correct answer, anyone want to guess?

.

Because everybody's dead. :( :depress:

[MERCMAN]

I suspect the lowering of fatal accidents is due to better designs in safety features, not safer drivers. Most states have enacted mandatory seatbelt laws as well which will also lower fatal accients. The article said nothing about non-fatal accidents. Just my .02 :up:

[Mike Poore]

Hey Gang,
Prior to 1995, driving at those speeds was "speeding," even "reckless
driving," and put one at risk of a fat fine, loss of license, and
high insurance premiums. The line was this was necessary for reasons
of "safety"; that is, speeds in excess of 55 mph were dangerous
because people were more likely to get into accidents and be hurt or
killed.

It makes a good arguement for those of us who love to hate government; but the real reason the speed limit was lowered was because of the oil imbargo and short supply of fuel. (real or cooked up)

The reasoning was, if everyone drove 55, we'd save x billions of barrels of fuel, and, although I've never seen those data to support the claim, it seemed to make sense, to the politicians, at least. The safety issue was all cooked up by the insurance industry, and others who thought it "sounded good" but as new data show, was a total crock. Our insurers, who, if they had their way, would never allow you to drive your cars ....ever. No miles driven = no accidents = no claims = bigger profits.

Of course, we agree, if we want to be insured, cough up higher premiums to drive our "high performance" cars, and they get to decide which models those are. :rolleyes:

[Logan]

I hate cliffhangers... Give up the answer Mac... Damn you and your evil shenanigans!! :D

[Hotrauder]

Nothing is more fun to play with than "stats".

Chicago's homicide rate is at an all-time low at the present time. Why? Fewer guns on the street? Better law enforcement? Quicker response to crimes in progress? Improved citizen interaction? Bigger guns for cops?

Nope...None of them are the correct answer, anyone want to guess?

Trust me, the answer is related to this topic.
Let's see...The price of ammo is up? noo.....all the real marksmen are already in prison?...noooo.... all the bad guys are already dead?....nooooo... numbers lie?....maybe.....how about the numbers of homicides is up.. but less that the total population is up?.....hmmm....therefore a lower percentage rate of homicides?
How about my favorite anti crime measure...more citizens armed and participating in their own defense..:beer:

[GreekGod]

Mac will say figures don't lie but liars sure can figure!

[Hotrauder]

Mac will say figures don't lie but liars sure can figure!
The Sergnt is right as always. Some, not here of course; seem to subscribe the the old philosophy, " seldom right but never is doubt.":lol:

[marauder307]

Had to laugh ironically at the "Hawaii" mention...actually, average speeds out here during rush hour are in the 15-20 mph range, and IVO Waikiki they often go to zero. Folks out here have no sense of spatial relationships either; that is, they never got the Einsteinian idea about how two objects cannot occupy the same place in space at the same time...consequently, in just my three weeks here I've already had numerous near-rearenders on the vehicles I've been driving (first a rental Charger, now the Black Hulk). They just simply shove their way into your lane, and your movement one direction or another be damned.

I guess I'm expecting too much...the idea that a civilization that was operating out of dugout outrigger canoes a scant 100 years ago could somehow master the intracacies of a modern automobile is just going too far for the Hawaiians, I guess... :shake:

[MM03MOK]

Nothing is more fun to play with than "stats".

Chicago's homicide rate is at an all-time low at the present time. Why? Fewer guns on the street? Better law enforcement? Quicker response to crimes in progress? Improved citizen interaction? Bigger guns for cops?

Nope...None of them are the correct answer, anyone want to guess?

Trust me, the answer is related to this topic.Less law enforcement/manpower. How did you put it? It's not a crime (or a stat) until you're caught?

[stevengerard]

Less law enforcement/manpower. How did you put it? It's not a crime (or a stat) until you're caught?

Or they are not counting it as homisides, hotrauder has a good guess too. I also think with faster speed limits you have a tighter range of sppeds while when the 70 became a 55 you had folks going 45 -80 now you have people going 65 - 80

[Motorhead350]

I'm printing this up and showing it to the judge when I go to court next month for doing 86 in a 55. :D Oh I got pulled over on the Chicago Skyway yes the Skyway! :rofl: You woundn't believe what the cop said to me. "Get rid of this car." To stop my speeding problem. "Get a 4 banger like everyone else your age." "Your shoes are too heavy." And I ware converse all stars the lightest shoes you can buy. And many other funny things. Sry this is a little off topic, but I got the need to speed. :drive:

[BillyGman]

Because everybody's dead. :( :depress:LOL!!!!! I almost fell off my chair when I read that^ reply!!! Best laugh I had in the last couple days... thanks!!!!.:rofl:

[Rider90]

I hate cliffhangers... Give up the answer Mac... Damn you and your evil shenanigans!! :D
http://www.dvdanswers.com/images/screenshots/supertroopers_2.jpg
FARVA: Yeah ill have a uh liter of cola
BURGER GUY: What?
FARVA: A liter of cola!
BURGER GUY: Liter-O-Cola do we make liter-o-cola?
THORNE: Why dont you just order a large Farva?
FARVA: I don't want a large Farva I want a goddamn liter of cola.
BURGER GUY: I don't know what that is.
FARVA: Liter is french for give me some fu**in cola before I rip off your fu**in lips!!

[SergntMac]

I hate cliffhangers... Give up the answer Mac... Damn you and your evil shenanigans!! :D Okay, okay...

The question was "how did Chicago lower it's homicide rate in one year, to less than half that of the year before (2003-2004 stats), and the answer also applies to the topic of speeding, and traffic related deaths.

mercman was close, mentioning safety equipment and mandatory seat belt use...

The answer is...Drum roll please...

In 2003, Chicago bought 100 additional ambulances (MICU), two Lifestar helicopters, and hired 200 additional Paramedics.

It's simple math to see how fewer people died of their injuries and wounds.

Like I was saying to mercman last week, there's not a square inch of America that doesn't have a cop, a fireman, and a paramedic assigned to patrol it. Faster response = less death, both traffic and crime stats count dead bodies.

Stats...More fun than...Nevermind.

[Rider90]

With more ambulances running around, any increase in emergency vehicle accidents?

[GreekGod]

+100 ambulances and + 200 Paramedics sounds like a lot, even for a city the size of Chicago! I wonder if there was a critical shortage that was rectified? Also, how Chi-town's homicide rate compares to similar sized cities? Was the rate for traffic accident deaths lowered any?

[Dan]

I agree with about stats. They can always be moved in one direction or the other. But there were some facts presented in this article that I wanted to highlight.

One is that the entire interstate highway system was designed to sustain an average speed of 70-75 MPH. The other point that was made is that, according to the Manual for Unifrom Traffic Control Devices, highway speeds should be set at the 85th percentile speed (the speed that 85% of the traffic naturally flows at for a given stretch of road.)

The MUTCD is a Federal Government manual and it went out hand in hand with the interstate highway system.

Now, without using stats we can and should be able (and, even more importantly be willing) to draw some conclusions from these two facts.

1. 85th percentile speed is the safest speed.
2. Setting the speed higher or lower than that makes the road less safe.

There are traffic engineers who would debate that these are more than conclusions but that they are facts. Those traffic engineers will tell you that the one thing with the most impact on vehicle speed is road design. The term that they use for this is "Design speed."

They will also tell you that to make drivers drive more slowly on a road it must be designed so that higher speeds make faster travel less safe. Since most drivers have a reasonable self preservation instinct, they (the 85%) will naturally drive at the "design speed."

I could tie this into the failure of the motoring public to use traffic signals or move right but I will spare you. :)

The point is that our entire interstate highway system was built, from its inception, with the safety of the motoring public in mind. When speed limits are played with for political or financial reasons people die.

Best,

Dan

[MAD-3R]

Speed Kills
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Take Ludes

[Dan]

The truth, speed by itself has never killed anyone (not the drug, wize guy. :) )

It is the DIFFERENCE of speed that does the killing. Hmmm, consider that for a while.

Now, if we allow the travelers on a highway to set the speed then we have the lowest variance in speed between vehicles. Interestingly enough, 85% will drive that speed without signs or enforcement. Put signs up for whatever that speed is and viola, almost everyone is now obeying the law. WOO HOO!

The net result is safer highways and lower fatality rates and (gasp) less revenue from tickets.

I can see the politicians liking that above sentence until he hears that last part about ticket revenue at which point he would frown and say, "Oh, we can't have that! No way."

Some people blame the police. I don't. They don't make the laws, they only enforce them.

Still, it is sad when revenue supercedes that value of life and safety.

Editorialising aside, it is speed difference that kills, usually, and not speed.

Dan

[ts-pa]

I thought that the 85% refered to the percentage travelling in the left lane. It sure seems that way!

[BruteForce]

Cliff Notes version:

Its not speeding that kills you... its the sudden stop at the end that does it.


The truth, speed by itself has never killed anyone (not the drug, wize guy. :) )

It is the DIFFERENCE of speed that does the killing. Hmmm, consider that for a while.

Now, if we allow the travelers on a highway to set the speed then we have the lowest variance in speed between vehicles. Interestingly enough, 85% will drive that speed without signs or enforcement. Put signs up for whatever that speed is and viola, almost everyone is now obeying the law. WOO HOO!

The net result is safer highways and lower fatality rates and (gasp) less revenue from tickets.

I can see the politicians liking that above sentence until he hears that last part about ticket revenue at which point he would frown and say, "Oh, we can't have that! No way."

Some people blame the police. I don't. They don't make the laws, they only enforce them.

Still, it is sad when revenue supercedes that value of life and safety.

Editorialising aside, it is speed difference that kills, usually, and not speed.

Dan

[merc406]

All I know is driving 55 makes me fall asleep, motors I've had give off a drone or just seem out of balance at that rpm range , or it could be me :D :lol:

[Dan]

Great humor here.

I sometimes, too, feel like the 85th percentail are stuck in the fast lane. :)

THANKS FOR THE CLIFF NOTES. :)

RE: Falling asleep at 55 you have hit on a point not yet covered that goes back to the "too slow is just as unsafe as too fast" argument.

People tend to drive in a much more alert manner when they get to drive within the design speed of a road.

For example: a road with a design speed of 50 and a limit of 75 will cause accidents and be unsafe because, on average, people will not have the skill required to safely travel the road. Conversely, a road with a design speed of 75 and a limit of 50 will cause accidents and be unsafe because there will not be enough go on to keep the attentiveness of drivers.

I am glad that someone brought this up because it allows us to unfold yet another aspect about the effects of incorrectly set limits.

Best,

Dan

[CBT]

Love me some speed. The Marauder has the lower speedometer of my 2 cars...:burnout: :burnout:

[FastMerc]

I remember reading an article about speed,The study proved that people are more alert and aware of there surroundings at higher speeds,at slower speeds they were to relaxed and not paying attention.To much time to do other things wile driving!

[pantheroc]

The speed limit makes no difference when an idiot pulls off the shoulder or a backed up lane in front of you. Almost tagged an idiot last week when I was way below the speed limit, anticipating it might happen. Imagine if I was doing the posted limit of 60? The guy must have slept through physics (oops too stupid for that) or common sense 101.

Must be more drivers becoming more aware of their surroundings, looking ahead and anticipating the possible outcomes of what lies ahead that reduces accidents.

[Dan]

There is no way to take into account aberrations in traffic which are dangerous at any speed and on any road.

What properly set speed does do is help drivers to be more aware so that aberrations are noticed more quickly.

Best,

Dan

[CBT]

I remember reading an article about speed,The study proved that people are more alert and aware of there surroundings at higher speeds,at slower speeds they were to relaxed and not paying attention.To much time to do other things wile driving!I agree with that 100%, BUT, high speed driving really keys up your senses and adrenaline, and that will only last for so long before you start popping No-Doze and slamming coffee to maintain that 'edge', especially on some of the runs i've done.:)

[Mike Poore]

:drive:
I agree with that 100%, BUT, high speed driving really keys up your senses and adrenaline, and that will only last for so long before you start popping No-Doze and slamming coffee to maintain that 'edge', especially on some of the runs i've done.:) :bs:Here's another way to look at it; and I might add, just as valid a reason as the other ********* statistics.

If I drive 50MPH and it's 100 miles to my destination, then I'm on the road 2 hours. Right? But, if I drive 100MPH I'm only on the road 1 hour. That's a 50% reduction in the time I'm exposed to the possiblity of getting involved in a traffic accident.

:drive: So, it follows that I would be twice as safe by driving 100MPH

[Dan]

Before we get too off topic here we are not talking about "high speed." We are talking about 85th percentile speed meaning the speed at which 85% of the traffic naturally flows on any given section of an interstate highway.

85th percentile speeds neither "keys one up" nor "bores one down." That is the beauty of it. It is the natural speed in which you are going to be interested or engaged in what you are doing.

Mike, your example is missing a key element. That element is the 85th percentile speed of the road. If the road was designed for an 85th %ile speed of 100 then you would be at no more risk driving at 100 for that one hour than anyone else would driving a road with an "85th" speed of 50 for twice as long.

There really are no statistics in this equation. It is all based on proven engineering practice, appropriate road design and speed limits which fit inside of those parameters.

Best,

Dan

[oldekid]

Before we get too off topic here we are not talking about "high speed." We are talking about 85th percentile speed meaning the speed at which 85% of the traffic naturally flows on any given section of an interstate highway.

85th percentile speeds neither "keys one up" nor "bores one down." That is the beauty of it. It is the natural speed in which you are going to be interested or engaged in what you are doing.

Mike, your example is missing a key element. That element is the 85th percentile speed of the road. If the road was designed for an 85th %ile speed of 100 then you would be at no more risk driving at 100 for that one hour than anyone else would driving a road with an "85th" speed of 50 for twice as long.

There really are no statistics in this equation. It is all based on proven engineering practice, appropriate road design and speed limits which fit inside of those parameters.

Best,

Dan My reply has to be at least 10 characters, so now I can say. . . huh?

[Dan]

John,

Please elaborate your question. I don't know what you are saying "Huh?" to.

Best,

Dan

[oldekid]

John,

Please elaborate your question. I don't know what you are saying "Huh?" to.

Best,

DanSorry Dan, just way too much math for me. I'll never speed again. . . . :lol:

[Mike Poore]

Sorry Dan, just way too much math for me. I'll never speed again. . . . :lol:


Me neither! :laugh:

[Dan]

You guys are kooks. :)

Best,

Dan

[Hotrauder]

You guys are kooks. :)

Best,

Dan
Geeez, I'm starting to have second thoughts myself. Perhaps I should just let mother drive from now on! What is the 85 percentile of 37 mph?

[Dan]

Is that how fast your mother drives? :)

The speed at which 85% of the drivers choose to drive on an insterstate is the 85th percentile speed.

Dan