Bye Bye CVPIs, Hello Tahoe Police Package

[Donny Carlson]

The City of Hoover, an affluent suburb of Birmingham, has replaced all their CVPI regular police vehicles with Tahoes. There are a couple command CVPI's still, but I've even seen unmarked Tahoe PP command vehicles driving around. Word is, even the Fire Dept. command CV's are being rotated out for Tahoe "special package" vehicles.

They look sorta like this:

http://www.gmfleet.com/image/showroom/lgcar/05_ChevyTahoe_sp_svc2_LG.jpg

[Breadfan]

At the place I'm working at right now, DLA a gov't agency, their on staff police use Tahoe's. They look kinda cool, I'm curious what engine they use...5.3? 6.0? Would be awesome if they had the LS2 in there, lol.

Betting it's probably just a stipped out fleet-level Tahoe with police add-ons though.

How do you like it?

The main thing I could see is handling and acceleration probably aren't up to CVPI standards. Hopefully they have big tranny coolers, if it has the 4L60-E they dont like heat and stress...my mom's '95 Suburban has 150,000 on the engine but is now on transmission #3...

So, you drive one yet?

[Donny Carlson]

How do you like it?

...

So, you drive one yet?I like 'em, and the LEO's I see on my route (which includes City hall) seem to like them just fine.

No, the only thing I pilot around the city is my LLV, which is postal-speak for mail truck.

I was able to scrounge up a pic of the Hoover Police Tahoes:

http://www.hooveral.org/Images/Rotators/Police/HPDTahoe.jpg

Edit: I did a Google and found out the City of Hoover sued Ford claiming the CVPI's they bought were "unsafe." That explains a lot of why they bought Tahoes. Interesting though -- I know they took delivery on a lot of '03 and '04 CVPI's, though those could have been in the bidding pipeline prior to the lawsuit. I'm sure the bean counters love it that the fleet now is made up of heavy, gas loving SUV's now that fuel prices are soaring.

[RCSignals]

Edit: I did a Google and found out the City of Hoover sued Ford claiming the CVPI's they bought were "unsafe." That explains a lot of why they bought Tahoes. Interesting though -- I know they took delivery on a lot of '03 and '04 CVPI's, though those could have been in the bidding pipeline prior to the lawsuit. I'm sure the bean counters love it that the fleet now is made up of heavy, gas loving SUV's now that fuel prices are soaring.

Ford did say they would not sell to agencies who were suing them. Even though some of those agencies were still putting in orders.

What did Hoover do with all the '03 and '04 it bought? They wouldn't necessarily be ready for replacement yet.

I wonder what their feeling on 'unsafe' will be after a few Tahoes roll, or get hit hard.

[Cartman]

Chevrolet Tahoes use a 5.3. Upscale GMC Denali trim gets 6.0 and AWD, 1500HD (Chevy/GMC) series get a 6.0 and 2x4/4x4. I think only once you go to 2500 series you get the 4L80e. I know a couple guys really making power in 4L60e/4L65e trucks have switched to a 4L80e.

And about the LS2 in other vehicles, yeah there's one in the Vette, one in the 05 SSR, and it's also going into a Trailblazer SS which is supposed to go 60 in about 5.5.

[Bigdogjim]

I wonder what their feeling on 'unsafe' will be after a few Tahoes roll, or get hit hard.


Good point!

[SergntMac]

There may be more issues to consider that just Ford's willingness to service LEAs who have filed suits against them. BTW, I do like this. I like Ford cutting off those who have them in court. You would think that any LEA that investigates MVIs should be able to figure things out for themselves...But, I digress.

Keep in mind that many jurisdictions have a "no chase" policy in place, so, speed and acceleration isn't a chief (excuse my pun) concern anymore. In fact, a well thought patrol plan can eradicate high speed chases altogether. Likewise, police involved collisions are remarkably reduced when high speeds are absent, but this is another topic too. A valid "no chase" plan requires an increase in patrol officers and vehicles, and it is a matter of where/how you want to spend municipal money. Anothr topic too, sorry.

Though popular for many years, the CV/PI hasn't always shown itself as the ideal police car. Other considerations where the CV/PI fails, include prisoner transport, "on scene" equipment supply, and a growing inability to accomodate routine operational equipment, i.e. "cop stuff".

Back when I joined LE, any car that had a MARS light screwed to the roof, was a cop car. One SPDT switch turned it on, another switch enabled a siren on a momentary contact switch, like pushing a doorbell. Going to a hot call was "slap and tickle". Toss your brief case in the back seat, stick your baton under the seat, and you're the cops. It's not like that anymore, and maybe, the CV/PI has run it's course? Cops do a lot more things today, that they did 30 years ago, and the rest of it is done quite differently. Most of this has developed in the last 3 years. Go figure?

Moreover, the "footprint" of the CV/PI "out and about the hedgerows", is suffering. The "CVE", as it's called in another thread here, is wearing thin on the police side of things too.

There are so many retired CV/PIs in private ownership and recycled among the livery services, that the general automotive population has grown numb to it's presence. No one is paying any attention to a bonafide LEA cruisers anymore, and this is a problem. Not a personal "ego" problem for the cop inside, but a "bang for the patrol buck" problem. For the LE Administrator, the presence of his patrol cars on the public way is loosing it's value

For a bonafide patrol cruiser to be most effective, it must have some "forboding presence" even when parked, and the CV/PI is showing it's age. It lives so long in retirement, it's getting hard to see a real cop car anymore.

For those of us who have posted in the "CVE" thread, stop and ask yourselves one thing. If there is such a thing as "CVE", doesn't this also mean real cop cars have lost their effectiveness as psychological deterrents? I think is does say exactly that, and it has already unfolded. I pity the '05/'06 Impala owners who mount a ski/bicycle rack on the roof. When I look at how the more modern lightbar schemes appear in my mirror, I can only imagine the excuses they will have to think of, for being late.

There has been some discussion inside LE that "highway" cars may benefit from extreme neon color schemes, i.e. neon yellow, orange and green. Very safe colors, very visible, most reflective and visual attention getters for sure, which is exactly what a patrol cruiser desires most.

Another consideration for smaller LEAs, is a financially responsible lease program. It could be, that this Tahoe is less expensive in a lease program, than the CV/PI in a 5 year roll-over buy/own/sell plan. The graphics are quite cheap today, order any solid color body and do the generic decal thingy, and you got a patrol force on the street in record time. The more customized your patrol vehicle, the more expensive it is to own/operate.

Just some thoughts, carry on, gents...

[CrazyCor15]

They're pretty good riding vehicles. Got to ride in a demo Tahoe the Flagler County Sheriff(FL) had. Did a tops of a little over 120mph, but we also got it stuck in mud. It was only a 2WD Tahoe.

[RCSignals]

The lease angle may have some merit. Personally I think it's more that the Tahoe is the only RWD platform available from GM for LE (and it has lots of interior space)
Ford also has 'SUV' vehicles available to LE, and has had for years. I'm starting to see more of them (Explorers, Expeditions) in use around here.

Fords concept Police Interceptor of a few years back may be an indicator of the way of the future, in that a truly LE only design is the answer.

[Vortex]

CVPI is still the best option by far when considering the total of size, performance, safety (yep, its still the safest car on the road),comfort, handling and price. SUVs are fine til you need to turn a corner quick. I expect the new Charger will be some competition but they sure seem alot smaller, ie not much room between seats for console mods ect...

[RCSignals]

CVPI is still the best option by far when considering the total of size, performance, safety (yep, its still the safest car on the road),comfort, handling and price. SUVs are fine til you need to turn a corner quick. I expect the new Charger will be some competition but they sure seem alot smaller, ie not much room between seats for console mods ect...

The Charger might turn out to be a good highway patrol car in the vein Mustangs and Camaros were (equipped with the right drive train). It has visibility problems, and rear seat access appears to be a potential problem for 'seating' prisoners.

I've seen a few '04 Mustangs in use around here.

[Big House]

They are out there, don't be fooled. The wife got pulled over by a green Tahoe in South Carolina.

[SergntMac]

Fords concept Police Interceptor of a few years back may be an indicator of the way of the future, in that a truly LE only design is the answer. Reminds me of the venerable Checker, and what a car that was too.

We had a few marked Checkers on test programs until Checker folded, and from a Fleet Manager's point of view, it made one Hell of a neat police car. Chevrolet powertrain was pretty damn quick, and easy to repair. Imagine a 350 HP 350 CID engine with a two speed race Powerglide and 4:10s. Square box aside, who's going to get away? Damn things were so strong, no seven point cage could do better. Plus, you could fit a whole Tact team inside for a raid, or use three of them to clean out any disorderly house.

The Checker was the best taxi ever made hands down, and it would have made a great police cruiser too. Our chief problem with the program, was getting the officers assigned to these vehicles to stop charging "customers" for the ride to the lock-up.

CVPI is still the best option by far when considering the total of size, performance, safety (yep, its still the safest car on the road),comfort, handling and price. SUVs are fine til you need to turn a corner quick. I expect the new Charger will be some competition but they sure seem alot smaller, ie not much room between seats for console mods ect... I'm not disagreeing with you on bit, but you're not thinking along other lines. The points you illustrate mean little to the folks running the town and paying the bills.

In their minds, "bang for the buck" is measured by versatility and fulfilling mission critical needs. To give an example, a few suburban departments around me are again looking into the "police medical technician" science, a concept 20 some years old, and still working in some communities. Briefly, on duty cops are also certified Paramedics, and their police car is a "level 1 first responder aid station" (read ambulance) that handle the routine/minor calls that exhaust a fully staffed FD "Mobile Intensive Care Unit." So, the cop called to the accident scene can treat minor injuries, and evaluate more serious injuries as "eyes and ears" for the stronger medical response not called out until he calls. Ditto crime scenes, if the dude is already dead, why bother rolling the heavy duty stuff? Only a trained specialist can make this call, and cops are getting this training. I think this is great, after I kick BoBo's azz because he wouldn't drop the gun, I get to patch him up before I book him. Now that's flexibility, eh?

Moreover, two towns near me have cross trained their cops as firefighters, and one just recently disbanded their two year old full time fire department, restoring the former volunteer force it replaced. Seems they feel that because cops are patrolling the streets 24/7, while firemen respond from a dead stop, and sometimes dead sleep, the cops are usually first at any scene, and response time does change the nature of the disaster at hand. "Meat on the stove" can become the whole house burning down, while full time firefighters wake up, get dressed, and get to the scene. It's worse when volunteer firefighters are the norm.

They have an Expedition loaded with two 50 gallon tanks of water, which look like two common hot water heaters to me. In fact, they probably are exactly that. 100 gallons of water could address things until the volunteers arrive with the serious equipment, and I think this makes utility sense. The sooner you get water on it, the less of a fire it will be.

BTW, one of the tanks has been certified to carry drinking water, how would this have helped a few folks in Louisana? This Excursion could take another two tanks too, for 200 gallons of water, and still have room for 200 MREs. How would this help your average residential "development" in any sudden disaster?

OTOH, I'd like to see such a police car chase down a speeder with 100 gallons of water "floating" around the back end. Obviously, this issue isn't on the minds of these town administrators, but money, and sudden disaster are. In their minds, the cops are there to protect them, and should they choose to divert LE service to public services on a routine basis, is their decision to make.

Was a time in my life, when every community maintained their own ESDA, aka "Civil Defense Corps." That gave way to Federal programs and the money went to bolster Fire and Police service. Now this pendulum swings back, I'm not surprised at all, that minicipal administrators are looking for a new police car. Better hope the Mayor doesn't own a Dominoe's...

[RedMerc04]

The Charger might turn out to be a good highway patrol car in the vein Mustangs and Camaros were (equipped with the right drive train). It has visibility problems, and rear seat access appears to be a potential problem for 'seating' prisoners.

I've seen a few '04 Mustangs in use around here. Im not sure if im right but i think that the chargers and magnums with the police package come with the 3.5L 250 hp v6. So unless they offer the Hemi (which in my eyes is common sense to just have it) I think the Vicky would be a better patrol car.

[RCSignals]

Im not sure if im right but i think that the chargers and magnums with the police package come with the 3.5L 250 hp v6. So unless they offer the Hemi (which in my eyes is common sense to just have it) I think the Vicky would be a better patrol car.

From what I've read, the V6 is the base engine for those.
The Magnum has been available as a Police Vehicle for a while, but apparently isn't a popular option. It also has visibility problems.
Seems most of DCX new offerings have visibilty problems, Magnum, 300, and Charger.
I was recently in LA, and there seems to be many Magnums on the road there (not LE), but almost every one I saw was a V6 version, not the V8. (the big employee pricing sale may be why so many are on the road there?)

[SergntMac]

Okay, I'll shut up. No sense in writing what doesn't get read.

[RCSignals]

Reminds me of the venerable Checker, and what a car that was too.

We had a few marked Checkers on test programs until Checker folded, and from a Fleet Manager's point of view, it made one Hell of a neat police car. Chevrolet powertrain was pretty damn quick, and easy to repair. Imagine a 350 HP 350 CID engine with a two speed race Powerglide and 4:10s. Square box aside, who's going to get away? Damn things were so strong, no seven point cage could do better. Plus, you could fit a whole Tact team inside for a raid, or use three of them to clean out any disorderly house.

The Checker was the best taxi ever made hands down, and it would have made a great police cruiser too. Our chief problem with the program, was getting the officers assigned to these vehicles to stop charging "customers" for the ride to the lock-up.
I'm not disagreeing with you on bit, but you're not thinking along other lines. The points you illustrate mean little to the folks running the town and paying the bills.

In their minds, "bang for the buck" is measured by versatility and fulfilling mission critical needs. To give an example, a few suburban departments around me are again looking into the "police medical technician" science, a concept 20 some years old, and still working in some communities. Briefly, on duty cops are also certified Paramedics, and their police car is a "level 1 first responder aid station" (read ambulance) that handle the routine/minor calls that exhaust a fully staffed FD "Mobile Intensive Care Unit." So, the cop called to the accident scene can treat minor injuries, and evaluate more serious injuries as "eyes and ears" for the stronger medical response not called out until he calls. Ditto crime scenes, if the dude is already dead, why bother rolling the heavy duty stuff? Only a trained specialist can make this call, and cops are getting this training. I think this is great, after I kick BoBo's azz because he wouldn't drop the gun, I get to patch him up before I book him. Now that's flexibility, eh?

Moreover, two towns near me have cross trained their cops as firefighters, and one just recently disbanded their two year old full time fire department, restoring the former volunteer force it replaced. Seems they feel that because cops are patrolling the streets 24/7, while firemen respond from a dead stop, and sometimes dead sleep, the cops are usually first at any scene, and response time does change the nature of the disaster at hand. "Meat on the stove" can become the whole house burning down, while full time firefighters wake up, get dressed, and get to the scene. It's worse when volunteer firefighters are the norm.

They have an Expedition loaded with two 50 gallon tanks of water, which look like two common hot water heaters to me. In fact, they probably are exactly that. 100 gallons of water could address things until the volunteers arrive with the serious equipment, and I think this makes utility sense. The sooner you get water on it, the less of a fire it will be.

BTW, one of the tanks has been certified to carry drinking water, how would this have helped a few folks in Louisana? This Excursion could take another two tanks too, for 200 gallons of water, and still have room for 200 MREs. How would this help your average residential "development" in any sudden disaster?

OTOH, I'd like to see such a police car chase down a speeder with 100 gallons of water "floating" around the back end. Obviously, this issue isn't on the minds of these town administrators, but money, and sudden disaster are. In their minds, the cops are there to protect them, and should they choose to divert LE service to public services on a routine basis, is their decision to make.

Was a time in my life, when every community maintained their own ESDA, aka "Civil Defense Corps." That gave way to Federal programs and the money went to bolster Fire and Police service. Now this pendulum swings back, I'm not surprised at all, that minicipal administrators are looking for a new police car. Better hope the Mayor doesn't own a Dominoe's...


Hi Mac. A 'Swiss Army knife' approach probably isn't best either, as far as vehicles go. (Policepatrolambulancefirewate rtankercivildefence Interceptor)
(I'm not sure it is as far as Emergency Service personnel either)
Police-Fireman-Paramedic. I just don't know.

A slow return to 'Civil Defence' is probably a very good thing. Such an organisation may have helped greatly pre and post 'Katrina'
I remember years ago having to 'exercise' CD communications systems. Key civilian players were supposed to participate, but never did. That was in Canada, but I understand not too different here in the US.

[LCSO34]

Not a Police package Tahoe, but a plain jane Yukon. Our agency recently purchased two Tahoes and they seem to work out nice. They are lower though by about 3". Michigan State Police rates the Tahoe about the same as the Crown Vic. I don't pull the trailer everyday if I did probaly would want something bigger.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC_2980.JPG

[merc6]

Is that a led bowtie in the window? Also D.C. has unmarked durangos...one blew my doors off the other day.

[DEFYANT]

Last time I checked the only police vehicle certified for high speed driving was the CVPI.

[merc6]

arlington and alexandria have yucons and expeditions iirc. Every now and then I see a CVPI but old town is suvs.