Better Rotors for my 04 Marauder

[Dan19063]

Seems like my rotors are starting to go south. Im begining to feel a slight pulsation in the brake pedal at high speed stops. I'll be a little disappointd if they need to be replaced with only 11,500 on the car. I am an agressive driver but not very hard on the braking. Was wondering if any of you have changed to a different kind of rotor? Maybe a drilled and slotted one and what have your results been? Is there one brand that is better than another? Should I look at ones that have the zinc coating to prevent rusting? ALL OPINIONS WELCOME:cool:

[Bradley G]

I had the same deal as you mention, I got the dealer to turn them down .003.

They told me, thier is only one cut allowed, by the thickness that the OEM rotors are.
The same shake is back, took a little longer this time.
I talked to Wes @ Innovative Interceptors(Vendor here) he claimed Command rotors are warrantied for warping.
Unless you can swing a Big brake kit, then TCE also a vendor can help you.
Or actually Dynopros or Dennis Rienhart could get you a brake kit or rotors.

Seems like my rotors are starting to go south. Im begining to feel a slight pulsation in the brake pedal at high speed stops. I'll be a little disappointd if they need to be replaced with only 11,500 on the car. I am an agressive driver but not very hard on the braking. Was wondering if any of you have changed to a different kind of rotor? Maybe a drilled and slotted one and what have your results been? Is there one brand that is better than another? Should I look at ones that have the zinc coating to prevent rusting? ALL OPINIONS WELCOME:cool:

[wchain]

Seems like my rotors are starting to go south. Im begining to feel a slight pulsation in the brake pedal at high speed stops. I'll be a little disappointd if they need to be replaced with only 11,500 on the car. I am an agressive driver but not very hard on the braking. Was wondering if any of you have changed to a different kind of rotor? Maybe a drilled and slotted one and what have your results been? Is there one brand that is better than another? Should I look at ones that have the zinc coating to prevent rusting? ALL OPINIONS WELCOME:cool:


With uunder 12K, the dealer will turn them at no charge. 1 yr/12K is still the new car bumper to bumper. That may fix things, but turning removes metal, and if you do a lot of high speed braking, expect them to do it again.

[shameless plug] I suggest you try something like Powerslots, Powerslot Cryo, or Command, all of which I carry. [/shameless plug] Command has claimed their rotors will not warp, if they do, they will replace them at no charge. I have driven a 04 CVPI with their rotors and steel wheels on a test track, and we made repeated 100+ mph panic stops, no warp, no fade. Texas Dept of Public Safety has picked these rotors up in their cars, as well as our local Sheriffs Dept. So far no warpage here on mine, but I've only driven her about a 400 miles in the last 3 months.



And like Bradley said, if you can afford it, the big brakes out there are a good choice as well!

Good luck!
Wes

[qkjuicedpony]

get the baer kit...it is nice

[DEFYANT]

I need to put the brakes on too.

I did not realize how important it was to increase the stopping power to compliment the horse power.

With stock brakes, I had to down shift to get the 4400 lbs to slow down to make the turn off the track!

My brakes are still in good shape. If these are the same as the CVPI brakes, they can really take some abuse. But they are designed for a car with about 300 HP or less.

[LVMarauder]

Except mine was at 22000 miles. my rotors wapred and needed replacement. Didnt want to drop booku bucks on big brake kit. So I talked to Wes and he informed me that powerslot now carries cryo treated rotors. I got slotted cryo treated fronts. I also got Hawk HPS pads. Since having them installed there is a noticable difference in breaking. I had a post about this somewhere back but Il tell you they stop better than stock. How much better than a big brake kits , I dont know. But it gives me a little more peace of mind while..."maneuvering" :rasta:

[Dave Compson]

I am still happy with the command rotors from wes. Check out the thread over at his forum.

[Canadasvt]

I suggest KVR Performance brakes in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. They have great systems for the MM and the Canadian dollar is still cheaper than the U.S.
https://www.kvrperformance.com/world/world.html and click on the right side of page for car search. They supply brakes for the Florida State Police MM's.:beer:

[JohnE]

Brakes take stored energy and turn it into what?

































HEAT!








So, if you hit the brakes while moving fast you do what? Make a tremendous amount of heat!




The smaller the rotors, the less mass to heat up. Larger diameter rotors have more mass, thus more ability to soak up heat. (i.e. Performance brake systems) The down side of larger rotors is more mass at an increased moment to accelerate. (Do a chair spin with arms in, then out to understand.) Not every aspect of performace brakes give you performance. With larger diameter rotors, it takes more energy to make them accelerate. This is the down side (acutally opposite) of performace brake systems.


With a Marauder it is not a wise move to touch the brakes at 100+, they will warp in seconds. Instead let the drag slow you down first, then smartly use the brakes without overheating them.


Real Sports cars have ceramic brakes with high heat pads. And they don't stop well until the brakes are hot. Street cars stop well the first time, then degrade. Think about it though; do you want the first or second emergency stop to work on the street?




I have turned rotors enough times to know better. They work great for a very short period of time, then braking pulses are back, then worse. Factory rotors on my car were pretty good. Actually if you follow performance brake pad procedures for bedding in, slightly warped rotors would improve and sometimes the pulsing would go away.



I think I'm the first to have a set of Command Automotive rotors warp. Not sure exactly why? Have not been harsh on them. However my Command Auto rotors have not warped anywhere near the point that even new factory rotors do. Developed a slight pulsation and never has gotten worse. Purhaps 1/4mi track stops from 105mph or stopping a heavy boat? Not sure, but I have a repeat problem that is better with the Command Auto's than factory rotors in my case.

[Rider90]

I recently did a full powered 75MPH to ZERO stop due to the old man in the black Cadillac STS driving on the wrong side of the highway in my lane at night. My rotors are warped, some noticable shudder on harder braking now. I don't care, any money I spend on brakes will have to be an upgrade and not to go into the OEM direction as I think our brakes suck when they get a kiss of heat.

[Warpath]

Just as added info and not in response to any particular post: Brake shudder or roughness is a function of not only the rotors and brakes, but of everything between the brakes and you including suspension, frame, body mounts, body stiffness, seats, steering column... What basically happens is what you feel in the steering wheel or seat track or floor board is a resonance from the cyclic output of the uneven rotors. Some vehicles can isolate/dampen this frequency better than others. It appears that MMs are somewhat sensitive to brake roughness. Perhaps its the added body mounts which shift the natural frequency. Anyway, OEs try to design a vehicle to be insensitive to it. We're not always completely successful due to compromises.

[Zack]

I have had nothing but problems with my Baer Brakes.
The customer support is dismal at best.
Im on my second set of rotors. First set warped instantly, took them 6 months to set me a new set. Second set has 6000 miles on them. They are warped very bad now as well. I just took the rotors in to be cut this morning. I stayed to watch the first rotor be cut.
They had to take .024" to true it up.
Yes, 24 thousanths. That is absolute bull****.
They look good though!

[ahess77]

My OEMs warped at about 15k to the point that when I applied the brakes at highway speeds the anti-locks would engage. The LH was the bad one, steering wheel would vibrate & then anti-lock would start pulsing too. So I'm guessing my stopping distance would have been a LOT farther than normal.

I just put on the Command rotors two weekends ago and have a total of 7 miles on them so I can't really tell you how they are except that they weren't warped out of the box.

I also put on a set of the Napa high-performance ceramic pads. Does anyone know who makes those?

One more question, I put thread anti-seize compound (the silver stuff with aluminum powder in it) on the exterior of the hub where the rotor touches it because I had a bit of a problem in removing the OEM rotors. Any thoughs on if that will work or if it will melt away and end up on the rotors/pads?

[David Morton]

get the baer kit...it is niceOr the KVR kit from Dennis Reinhart.

I got mine for less than the Baers and don't have to get special balancing as the KVR kit clears the stock wheel weights. I'm told the Baers require special weights or static balancing.

I also didn't have to do any grinding or modifications to the steering knuckles. I was also told you must modify the knuckles to install the Baer kit, which makes them unusable for anything other than their parts. I could restore mine to factory original condition.

But then again, why would I want to.

I have put 10,000 miles on them and believe it was the best first mod anybody can do for their Marauder.

To quote Fordnut, "I only thought I had good brakes."

[BruteForce]

The only changes I had to make with the BAER kit was move the balance weights on the front wheels. No grinding or other fabrication.

[David Morton]

Thanks BruteForce for the clarification. I must be thinking about the other kit available here, the one with the fixed caliper design. But maybe it was an "Overhaulin" episode I saw that had a Baer kit and they were grinding off the knuckles. Maybe I'm all wet.

Oooh, all wet. Think I'll give Kathy a call.

[Rider90]

Sad to hear about the Baer kit.

[FordNut]

I have had nothing but problems with my Baer Brakes.
The customer support is dismal at best.
Im on my second set of rotors. First set warped instantly, took them 6 months to set me a new set. Second set has 6000 miles on them. They are warped very bad now as well. I just took the rotors in to be cut this morning. I stayed to watch the first rotor be cut.
They had to take .024" to true it up.
Yes, 24 thousanths. That is absolute bull****.
They look good though!
Zack,
Contact me about this... I've found a vendor of some killer rotors but haven't been able to take a rotor off long enough to send it to them for matching up. Maybe we can locate a front rotor that is not in use?!

BTW, my OEMs warped, the wife's OEMs warped, my KVRs warped once and are starting to pulsate again. Maybe we're harder on brakes than the average driver!

[69mach1]

Has anybody checked if the 13" rotors off an 05 Mustang can be fitted to the MM? Not sure which 05's have the larger rotors... maybe the Mach1.:rolleyes: Since they use the same 18" wheels as an option it might be feasable. It's a thought I haven't had time to pursue just yet:shake: . On a note about warped rotors I know sometimes it's not the rotor that's warped but out-gassing of the brake pads that leave a residue on the rotors that ends up with a pulsing in the brake pedal.

My 2 cents,

Hi O Silver

Jon aka 69mach1 :burnout:

[Todd TCE]

Let's assume for a minute you can get the Mustang rotors on there. Offset is about the same. Width is the same....

How do you plan to fit the caliper back on them? Seems to me you're going to come up about 1/2 short of the holes.

[Krytin]

One more question, I put thread anti-seize compound (the silver stuff with aluminum powder in it) on the exterior of the hub where the rotor touches it because I had a bit of a problem in removing the OEM rotors. Any thoughs on if that will work or if it will melt away and end up on the rotors/pads?
Been using anti-seeze compound like that for 20+ years with no problems. Have also used it on caliper slides - use sparingly! Excess will drip or sling off.

[Warpath]

I have had nothing but problems with my Baer Brakes.
The customer support is dismal at best.
Im on my second set of rotors. First set warped instantly, took them 6 months to set me a new set. Second set has 6000 miles on them. They are warped very bad now as well. I just took the rotors in to be cut this morning. I stayed to watch the first rotor be cut.
They had to take .024" to true it up.
Yes, 24 thousanths. That is absolute bull****.
They look good though!

Did you follow the break in procedure correctly? I've heard that if you don't follow the rotor break in procedure properly, they'll warp in no time. This is the first time I've heard anything negative about Baer brakes.

69mach1 - Modern day pads don't gas out until you get them really, really hot - well above normal brake temperatures.

[flescher]

I have not seen anyone mention cryogenic treatment of the rotors. I have done this on racecars for a few years and found not only more stable rotors, but slightly increased braking and more importantly predictability. They stop the same each time.

This year I did this to a set of Marauder rotors. Not sure but I think I got them from Performance Friction. They are basically stock replacements. I shipped them to my cryo treater in St. Petersburg, FL. I think it cost 50-80 bucks for the treatment. I actually had the car out at Sebring after having done the rotors where I was teaching at a drivers school and did a couple of hot laps with maximum braking, and anyone who knows Sebring knows that this is a real brake buster. Some fade on the second lap but they still stopped. I'm still driving that car with no vibration at all. Heat will warp unstable rotors, but if you stablize them with cryo treatment they won't warp.

Another thing about aftermarket brakes. Bigger rotors stop better because of a larger swept area not because they are more massive. More mass, heavier rotors, will stop more times without brake fade, but swept area increases and pad size are what aftermarket rotors offer that permits better braking. This is one reason not to cut rotors but replace them. I would add that cryogenic treatment should still be done on aftermarket rotors. Additionally, brake pad compound is critical to better braking. Some compounds provide more friction, and some are able to operate at higher temperatures without fade.

[flescher]

P.S. Where can I get technical/pricing info on KVR and Baer brake kits? Having driven at Sebring with stock brakes, I want to upgrade before next year's drives school gives me another chance for some hot laps.
H

[Warpath]

Larger diameter rotors also create a larger moment arm. In other words, the pads have more "leverage" to stop the wheel.

[valleyman]

P.S. Where can I get technical/pricing info on KVR and Baer brake kits? Having driven at Sebring with stock brakes, I want to upgrade before next year's drives school gives me another chance for some hot laps.
H

I don't know about the Baer but I got my KVRs from Dennis Reinhart and he can tell you anything you want to know about them. Also I remember (I think) a post somewhere on this site comparing the two side by side with lots of pics.

I'm quite happy with my KVRs and went with them over the Baers because I wouldn't need special weights when balancing and because of the price.:bandit:

[David Morton]

I want to add that I do believe our brake boosters are maybe not big enough to hold enough reserve vacuum for the braking cycles we need on some road courses. Hard brake, let off and quickly back to heavy throttle with the attenuant low vacuum then brake hard again and now booster assist is much lower.

Perhaps we can benefit from a large vacuum reserve tank. Where to put it though? Coffee cans worked well back in the 80s'. Perhaps a bank of them, four or five under the M/cylinder. Would only add a pound or so of weight.

[Warpath]

I remember some company selling vacuum canisters. They were about the size of a... uh... crap, I can't think of anything the same size - about 4" diameter and around 6" long judging from the box. You could also go to a parts yard and grab a bunch of OE canisters from behind dashes - the ones used for HVAC operation. They're plastic and won't weight much.

[flescher]

I seemed to have ple nty of vacuum for 2 hot laps of Se bring.
H

I want to add that I do believe our brake boosters are maybe not big enough to hold enough reserve vacuum for the braking cycles we need on some road courses. Hard brake, let off and quickly back to heavy throttle with the attenuant low vacuum then brake hard again and now booster assist is much lower.

Perhaps we can benefit from a large vacuum reserve tank. Where to put it though? Coffee cans worked well back in the 80s'. Perhaps a bank of them, four or five under the M/cylinder. Would only add a pound or so of weight.