LineLock update

[carfixer]

I had started a thread about installing LineLock on a Marauder (thread) (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21621&highlight=line+lock) and need to update some information.

I just finished installing one on a '03A and found a big difference.

On cars with traction control, the line on the rear section of the master cylinder is for the front brakes.

On cars without traction control, the line on the front section of the master cylinder is for the front brakes.

In either case, it is the 3/16" brake line, not the 1/4" brake line. In other words, it is the smaller diameter line in both cases.

I also found a different and better way to wire it in. Instead of using my O/D cancel button to activate it, I found a way to tap into the cruise control off button. I use a toggle switch to change the function of the cruise off button to either linelock mode or cruise mode. I've done it on 4 MM's now and it works great.

[Tallboy]

Roger that. This Hurst Line-Loc is the *****. Carfixer wired it up like this: I now have a toggle switch mounted inside my center console. In the "down" position, the car operates as from the factory. Flipping the switch "up" turns my cruise control "off" button, to the Line-Loc solenoid activation button. As long as I hold that switch down, the front brakes are locked solid. [The rear tires, however, are free to spin like a whirling dervish.] Once I let go of the cruise control "off" switch, the car rolls out of the burnout, and I look like a pro-drag racer [nothing could be further from the truth]. All the while, I'm no longer "cooking" my rear brakes. I love it!

Special thanks to BillyGman for providing the correct part numbers and some valuable input! :beer:

[DEFYANT]

Roger that. Flipping the switch "up" turns my cruise control "off" button, to the Line-Loc solenoid activation button. As long as I hold that switch down, the front brakes are locked solid. [The rear tires, however, are free to spin like a whirling dervish.] Once I let go of the cruise control "off" switch, the car rolls out of the burnout :beer:
Now this is a trick install!! Very nice indeed! I'll add this mod to the list!:D

Thanks

[Todd TCE]

I want to chime in here a moment and say that I and Wilwood do NOT endorse the use of these products on the aftermarket BBKs. Extended use of high pressure held in a firm mode can severely damage a caliper. Yes, both stock and aftermarket. I mention it only as a CYA.

Now...back to your regularly scheduled forum.

[Tallboy]

I want to chime in here a moment and say that I and Wilwood do NOT endorse the use of these products on the aftermarket BBKs. Extended use of high pressure held in a firm mode can severely damage a caliper. Yes, both stock and aftermarket. I mention it only as a CYA.

Now...back to your regularly scheduled forum.

I have a couple of questions...

1. How long/what is considered "extended use"?
2. What's the difference between my foot holding the brakes down, or the solenoid doing it for me?

[BillyGman]

2. What's the difference between my foot holding the brakes down, or the solenoid doing it for me?There isn't any difference Chuck. He was just throwing out one of those Attorney written type disclaimers in an effort to release himself from any liabilities. The Summit catalogue does the same thing even though they sell the line lock set-ups. they tell you..."Not for use on cars with ABS" but it works fine on my Marauder, and it doesn't effect the ABS, since the line-lock solenoid isn't even in use while you're using your foot on the brake pedal. Take his warning eith a grain of salt, because he's just concerned with covering his butt.

[Tallboy]

There isn't any difference Chuck. He was just throwing out one of those Attorney written type disclaimers in an effort to release himself from any liabilities. The Summit catalogue does the same thing even though they sell the line lock set-ups. they tell you..."Not for use on cars with ABS" but it works fine on my Marauder, and it doesn't effect the ABS, since it isn't even in use while you're using your foot on the brake pedal. Take his warning eith a grain of salt, because he's just concerned with covering his butt.

Yeah I saw that, too. I did a couple "panic stops" on a back-road just to be sure. ABS works flawlessly.

[fastblackmerc]

I have a couple of questions...

1. How long/what is considered "extended use"?
2. What's the difference between my foot holding the brakes down, or the solenoid doing it for me?
Don't know anything bout "extended use" but if you use the brakes without the linelock your rear brakes will be applied. Linelock is a solenoid that holds the brake pressure only on the front brakes. To use it you apply the brakes, engage the linelock switch (don't release it until your ready to launch), take your foot off the brake pedal (the linelock will keep the pressure on the front brakes not the rear.

[BillyGman]

Yeah I saw that, too. I did a couple "panic stops" on a back-road just to be sure. ABS works flawlessly. Yeah, I've put about 15,000 miles on my Marauder since me and a friend installed the Line-Lock, including driving through four snowstorms, and the brakes are just fine. In fact, I now have 35,000 miles on the car, and never had any brake work done yet.

[Todd TCE]

Yes your assumptions are correct. However what I'm telling you is that most applications of this part are done with pressures far exceeding those of the normal pressures required for general stopping. Calipers will flex under these pressures and can be damaged severely. Both stock iron parts as well as those of the aftermarket in aluminum. Damages won't jump up at you but in time it 'may' lead to loss of brake pedal feel, unusual pad wear, and a general loss of brake effectiveness due to binding. Wilwood for one does not recommend line pressures above 1200psi. While I have personally tested them at 1500, you can in fact have a sever failure of a caliper, line or perhaps ABS system with extreme pressures beyond those which they were designed for. In short; use them at your own risk of damages.

[BillyGman]

Yes your assumptions are correct. However what I'm telling you is that most applications of this part are done with pressures far exceeding those of the normal pressures required for general stopping. Calipers will flex under these pressures and can be damaged severely. Both stock iron parts as well as those of the aftermarket in aluminum. Damages won't jump up at you but in time it 'may' lead to loss of brake pedal feel, unusual pad wear, and a general loss of brake effectiveness due to binding. Wilwood for one does not recommend line pressures above 1200psi. While I have personally tested them at 1500, you can in fact have a sever failure of a caliper, line or perhaps ABS system with extreme pressures beyond those which they were designed for. In short; use them at your own risk of damages.Hmmm, I honestly didn't realize that. Thanks for your input. I guess it will depend on how often the line-lock is actually used.

[AzMarauder]

Roger that. This Hurst Line-Loc is the *****. Carfixer wired it up like this: I now have a toggle switch mounted inside my center console. In the "down" position, the car operates as from the factory. Flipping the switch "up" turns my cruise control "off" button, to the Line-Loc solenoid activation button. As long as I hold that switch down, the front brakes are locked solid. [The rear tires, however, are free to spin like a whirling dervish.] Once I let go of the cruise control "off" switch, the car rolls out of the burnout, and I look like a pro-drag racer [nothing could be further from the truth]. All the while, I'm no longer "cooking" my rear brakes. I love it!

Special thanks to BillyGman for providing the correct part numbers and some valuable input! :beer:
This is MOST excellent... I would like the wiring diagram on this.. long as there are no Pink wires with black striped involved.

[Tallboy]

Yes your assumptions are correct. However what I'm telling you is that most applications of this part are done with pressures far exceeding those of the normal pressures required for general stopping. Calipers will flex under these pressures and can be damaged severely. Both stock iron parts as well as those of the aftermarket in aluminum. Damages won't jump up at you but in time it 'may' lead to loss of brake pedal feel, unusual pad wear, and a general loss of brake effectiveness due to binding. Wilwood for one does not recommend line pressures above 1200psi. While I have personally tested them at 1500, you can in fact have a sever failure of a caliper, line or perhaps ABS system with extreme pressures beyond those which they were designed for. In short; use them at your own risk of damages.

Todd, thanks for the info.

In the interest of covering my a$$, I called Baer brakes and asked for technical assistance. A very helpful guy named Ben picked up, and I explained my line-loc set-up to him. I told him I was cautioned about possible brake system damage from the use of line loc. He said that the use of line-loc will not damage the brakes in any way. The line-loc solenoid is not capable of generating or increasing brake pressures, only "holding" what the master cylinder will put out. When you engage the soleniod, the brake pressure you are applying to the system to keep the car still is simply "held" by the soleniod. Then the rear brakes are relieved of any pressure, enabling a proper burnout and significantly reducing brake wear/abuse. I explained I wanted the system pretty much to keep from cooking my rear brakes at the drag-strip. He assured me it was actually a smart thing to do, and that many of his customers use line-loc with confidence.

[Todd TCE]

No problem one way or the other. You're free to do as you wish. Remember that the pressure is the pressure and as he stated has nothing to do with the valve. The harder you push on the pedal to hold the car then 'set the switch' is what I'm concerned about. I've seen 3000psi on a dash gauge before and I know that didn't do anyone any good!

I'm not here to put the fear of God into anyone who does this. I'm simply agreeing with my caliper builder on their use and CYA for those who might consdier it for them. Other than that "it's all good". :cool:

[MarauderTJA]

Claude's line lock set up is awesome. I love it and it works flawlessly.:)

[carfixer]

I've received some requests on wiring and installing LineLoc. Here are the diagrams:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/electrical.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/Hydraulic.jpg

Note, the fitting that goes into the master cylinder is unique and must be removed from the factory line and installed onto the 3/16 line that you make that goes from the solenoid to the master cylinder.

[DEW34]

I've received some requests on wiring and installing LineLoc. Here are the diagrams:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/electrical.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/Hydraulic.jpg
Claude you da man, now get back inside and stop watching the storm we dont need yo u to get hit in the head with a coconut j/k you and the family stay safe !
mike

[FordNut]

Why is the toggle switch necessary? Looks like the cruise control button is connecting to ground to energize the relay. It's apparently doing the same thing to activate the cruise control. Without the toggle switch, the line lock would be activated every time the cruise control is turned on. Since the button is only pressed momentarily to activate the cruise control it shouldn't affect the brakes since you generally don't activate cruise while braking. Only issue is whether the voltage from the relay back-feeds into the cruise control and prevents it from working properly. Somebody who has the switch installed like this could just turn on the switch, drive around and try cruise control out (if it hasn't been done accidentally already).


I've received some requests on wiring and installing LineLoc. Here are the diagrams:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/electrical.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/Hydraulic.jpg

Note, the fitting that goes into the master cylinder is unique and must be removed from the factory line and installed onto the 3/16 line that you make that goes from the solenoid to the master cylinder.
Why is the toggle switch necessary?

[shakes_26]

It probably isnt required. But I'd rather have the ability to isolate it entriely from the steering wheel inputs. Also, I'd recommend placing a diode on the relay between the coil feed and ground (86 and 85), just keep those spikes down (another benefit of the toggle switch).

[FordNut]

It probably isnt required. But I'd rather have the ability to isolate it entriely from the steering wheel inputs. Also, I'd recommend placing a diode on the relay between the coil feed and ground (86 and 85), just keep those spikes down (another benefit of the toggle switch).
Or just make sure it's one of the relays with a built-in diode.

[carfixer]

The switch is necessary. I tried it, cruise doesn't work.

[glassman99]

Thanks for the detailed information Claude. I am getting my line lock installed this week.:banana2:

[FordNut]

The switch is necessary. I tried it, cruise doesn't work.
Thanks for the testing!

[TooManyFords]

Talk about Déjà vu! While swapping the motor this week I'm going to tackle this too.

Thanks again Claude!

John

[juno]

What is the part number for the Hurst Lineloc?

[KillJoy]

John, no need to search..... here are the part #'s from Summit racing, and the link for you to order them online if you wish.....

Hurst Roll control part # HUU-1745000 $109

Hurst Installation kit part # HUU-5671510 $27

Hurst Mustang
conversion kit (has metric fittings that
the Marauder & Mustang both use) part # HUU-5671516 $15


and the link to the webpage.....

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=Hurst+Roll+con trol&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=31&y=11


:)


KillJoy