Next mod advice

[jawz101]

Any opinions?

Currently:
'04 MM Silver
thermo
denso IT20's
PHP CAI
XCal2 w/ DR tune

What should I do w/ say no more than $1500?
I was thinking either kooks exhaust
or UD pullies, 4.10 gears, waterpump

Where would you go next?
Thanks for the input!

[torinodan]

Underdrives, 4.10s, and new tires?:D

[Rider90]

4.10s and the right tune are night and day. I'd save for a S/C although I have trouble following my own advice.

[jawz101]

Am I getting a sense that people don't think the Kooks kit gives the wow factor as much?
New tires? Well... I'm trying to make that a necessity asap :)
Let's say new tires don't count

or should I go for ride like sway bars & control arms. I do think the gears & ud pulleys do sound promising since I get an impression people like the differences they make.

[Bradley G]

If you are going to stay N/a or eventually go with a centrifical supercharger,

A stallion torque converter would give the best return

[jawz101]

If you are going to stay N/a or eventually go with a centrifical supercharger,

A stallion torque converter would give the best return

N/A... Hmm. I may have to do a little snooping on that one. I hadn't looked into the torque converters much

... (edit) looked at the Torque converters for the last 1.5 hrs after posting this.
Looks like if I go the TC route I'd definitely have to do the rear engine cooling while I got the access to do it for an add'l $160.

I get a lot of feeling that UD pullyeys and 4.10 gears are what people want to complement the TC. Right now I'm thinking I'd definitely hit 1500 mark if I didn't go w/ exhaust.
UD + TQ + 4.10 + waterpump (?) + rear engine cooling = say 1500-1600

ok... um... let me quit fantasizing now. I think I need to think about how much money I really have :)
What do you guys think are a good combo if I took away a couple of those mods I mentioned?
Also, what would an intake spacer do for me? I still think it's a myth if it does anything at all.

[Cobra25]

Am I getting a sense that people don't think the Kooks kit gives the wow factor as much?
New tires? Well... I'm trying to make that a necessity asap :)
Let's say new tires don't count

or should I go for ride like sway bars & control arms. I do think the gears & ud pulleys do sound promising since I get an impression people like the differences they make. If you want more of the wow factor this is what I did when I was at your stage of putting in mods. Stallion 3000 Stall TQ Convertor. It will cut up to .7 tenths of a second in your 1/4 mile track time.$720.00 approx cost labor about $300. Next 410 rear gears cost about $180 set. Install price between $300-400 at the most. Totle around $1500-$1600 . If I were you I'd do it that way.

[AzMarauder]

Any opinions?

Currently:
'04 MM Silver
thermo
denso IT20's
PHP CAI
XCal2 w/ DR tune

What should I do w/ say no more than $1500?
I was thinking either kooks exhaust
or UD pullies, 4.10 gears, waterpump

Where would you go next?
Thanks for the input!
Were I you.. I'd do he gears next. They made a MARKED difference in the feel and driveability of my car. I cannot imagine the exhaust adding as much to the SOTP.

[AzMarauder]

UD + TQ + 4.10 + waterpump (?) + rear engine cooling = say 1500-1600



Don't forget the cost of installation.

Another thing I'd suggest is to decide what your endstate will be for the car. Do you plan to remain N/A or is a power adder in your future plans? If so... then don't spend a DIME on things that won't work in your ultimate configuration. Why waste the money for limited temporary use?

[MarauderMarc]

Id do a TC, rear engine cooling, and gears. By the way, if youre going to get the gears done, you might as well get the rear girdle and stud kit. 179.99 shipped by Wes at Innovative interceptors. It dresses it up and reenforces the rear end. The Kooks exhaust is great as well...I just ordered mine.Thats more of a mid mod that you do after the gears, TC, intake, ect. (IMO) Keep us posted on the route you go....

[Ken]

Am I getting a sense that people don't think the Kooks kit gives the wow factor as much?
New tires? Well... I'm trying to make that a necessity asap :)
Let's say new tires don't count

or should I go for ride like sway bars & control arms. I do think the gears & ud pulleys do sound promising since I get an impression people like the differences they make.I love my Kook's, and enjoy the sound, they dropped my 1/4 mile time from 14.61 about one month before install w/ just a DR stage 1 to 14.051 (on a 43 degree day) after Kook's install. I've installed a JLT CAI since and Lidio installed my 4.10's and dynoed and retuned it due to A/F ratio issue that was noticeable after my JLT install. While I'm very pleased with the new SOTP feel now. My best time since was at MVIII at 14.20 (85-90 degree day + humid). I was hoping to run at Smackdown at Norwalk today, to see what kind of results I'd get on a cooler day.
But real world, not the drag strip, the comparisons are completely different , My Kook's gave me an increase in power and an audible improvement. As Steve Babcock told me at MVIII, this was the sound that they were shooting for during development, but it didn't pass Gov't noise level specs. in two ranges, so they added another pair of cats, that took care of one range, and the Megs tips took care of the other. As for the JLT, 4.10's and the shift point adjustments, while I didn't notice any improvement in the 1/4 mile, were more SOTP. So it depends on what you are looking for. The enjoyment factor has risen considerably with each of the mods.:burnout: :drive: :D

[BUCKWHEAT]

Any opinions?

What should I do w/ say no more than $1500?
I was thinking either kooks exhaust
or UD pullies, 4.10 gears, waterpump

Where would you go next?
Thanks for the input!

4:30's & Kooks. Don't do the UD's & waterpump till after other stuff...mufflers, suspension, trans oil pan, oil cooler, guages...

It never stops!

[Blackened300a]

Also, what would an intake spacer do for me? I still think it's a myth if it does anything at all.
Intake spacer does NOTHING without Tuning!! I actually felt like I lost power After the install.
In 2 weeks im getting a dyno tune. If the Spacer did anything It will show after the tuning.
Ill Post my Results.
Dennis Said that the Spacer will richen the A/F up and from other guys with the correct tune, I may be only looking at 3hp anyways.
3 hp is better then nothing but not for $110

After I picked up a SCT tune, 4.10's and a set of Pulleys. They made a Nice difference. However, I wish I went with the TC first. Most guys are pulling 7 tenths out of that Mod.

So My Advice for you to keep within the $1500 mark
TC plus install $900
SCT tune $375
U/D Pullies $210
Total $1485 (Give or Take) and Factor in the Shipping
Just Call a Vendor with the Parts Tell him what you need, Hand over the Credit Card and Deal with it on a Monthly Basis,
You'll be Glad you did!

[FordNut]

I'd go for the u/d pulleys, 4.10 gears (and a new program), and stud girdle/rear cover. Probably set aside the rest of the cash to see if a driveshaft is needed.

Next I'd go with the t/c, tranny rebuild/upgrade, and rear head cooling mod. Maybe driveshaft loop since the tranny will be out.

Then headers/exhaust.

I may change the sequence a bit if it weren't for the $1500 stipulation. That's not enough for the exhaust system.

[mpearce]

Where would you go next?This is the question you should be asking yourself! You'll get a billion opinions, sequences, etc, etc. What really matters is the direction YOU want to take your MM in. Think about that before you make a big mod decision. Do you want a car that's good in the turns, and possibly raced on a road course? Do suspension. Do you want a drag strip beast? Do a search on superchargers, NOS, and other forms of forced induction, and save that $1500 bucks.

Sometimes, patience can be a virtue, especially here. The longer you wait, the more cool products and mods will be available for your car, so don't be so quick to pull the trigger.

You want to make your car faster, right? We all do. Do mods that will either make you faster or add real horsepower. Go with a new torque converter, or the Kooks (even though a torque converter doesn't actually add horsepower)

Remember...it's what YOU want for your car. All this I wrote^^^ is just a Bull **** opinion. YOU are the boss here.

-Mat

p.s. a sidenote...Ive raced, driven in, and driven behind Kens MM, who answered you above here. His Kooks look and sound awesome, and no matter what...he always seems to beat me at the track by 1 - 2 tenths, and at least 2-3 mph every time...even though the race sometimes looks dead even. I say it's his Kooks.

[Pat]

The 4:10 gears made my MM wake up and bark. I drive around now with certain authority that a challenge at any speed can be swiftly dealt with.

[GreekGod]

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 305916" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>pat</TD><TD class=alt2>The 4:10 gears made my MM wake up and bark. I drive around now with certain authority that a challenge at any speed can be swiftly dealt with.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 305704" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>Rider90</TD><TD class=alt2>4.10s and the right tune are night and day.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 305888" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>FordNut</TD><TD class=alt2>I'd go for the u/d pulleys, 4.10 gears (and a new program), and stud girdle/rear cover. Probably set aside the rest of the cash to see if a driveshaft is needed.








</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>[Quoting Ken]:My Kook's gave me an increase in power and an audible improvement. As Steve Babcock told me at MVIII, this was the sound that they were shooting for during development, but it didn't pass Gov't noise level specs. in two ranges, so they added another pair of cats, that took care of one range, and the Megs tips took care of the other. As for the JLT, 4.10's and the shift point adjustments, while I didn't notice any improvement in the 1/4 mile, were more SOTP. So it depends on what you are looking for. The enjoyment factor has risen considerably with each of the mods.


Seems like the 4.10's are most highly recomended. I've read that Steve Babcock said the MM should have come with 4.10's. Q. to Ken: Are you saying that Babcock wanted the Kook's sound and got it without them?

[Rider90]

so they added another pair of cats
That doesn't sound right to me. All the panthers have four cats, right? Why would ours be an exception? It isn't for noise reasons, they need four to pass - well atleast four of Ford's cats to pass. I'm supposed to believe they designed the Marauder with a two cat setup and gave it four *only* to suppress noise? I'm calling bull**** on this one.

[jawz101]

This is the question you should be asking yourself! You'll get a billion opinions, sequences, etc, etc. What really matters is the direction YOU want to take your MM in. Think about that before you make a big mod decision. Do you want a car that's good in the turns, and possibly raced on a road course? Do suspension. Do you want a drag strip beast? Do a search on superchargers, NOS, and other forms of forced induction, and save that $1500 bucks...

I couldn't agree with you more. This is thread has done more for my decisions than anyhing and I'm digging the interest & responses from you all.

I have felt some leaning towards the TC, UD's, gears & kooks as the most significant mods mentioned.

A few things I've been thinking about is that I really don't think I'm concerned w/ suspension.
I haven't been leaning towards a drag car as much as a big top-end sleeper.
I love how this car sounds quiet until I put my foot into it.
The idea of getting this thing to lay rubber is nice too.

For some reason I have this hesitancy about gears.
Maybe it's that when it comes to mechanics/physics I get lost.
For some reason I have this thought that I would be required to buy more just to make the best of it.
Would a torque converter be pointless w/o a gear change? I mean they both are for the low end. It sounds like one is to get your rpm's up & the other is to keep your wheels use those rpms. Any inputs/physics lessons:)?

Also, are the kooks headers the most effective part of a full kooks exhaust? How much are they alone & what is the performance difference of just getting that part of the exhaust upgrade?

(I would have to say that the only reason someone goes w/ more cats is noise suppression. That's the only reason I've heard a perf shop even suggest having more. I can't call bull on that one because no other reason makes sense)

thanks

[mpearce]

Also, are the kooks headers the most effective part of a full kooks exhaust?
Yes, if you just get the headers alone...you can go full custom exhaust the rest of the way and still get very significant power gains. If anyone doubts me on this PM MikesMerc. He's got the Kooks headers, and the rest is full custom exhaust. His car runs 11.50's.

-Mat

[GreekGod]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by GreekGod

so they added another pair of cats

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That doesn't sound right to me. All the panthers have four cats, right? Why would ours be an exception? It isn't for noise reasons, they need four to pass - well atleast four of Ford's cats to pass. I'm supposed to believe they designed the Marauder with a two cat setup and gave it four *only* to suppress noise? I'm calling bull**** on this one.Rider90-I think someone else must have said that quote. I don't remember saying anything about cats.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[FordNut]

Would a torque converter be pointless w/o a gear change? I mean they both are for the low end. It sounds like one is to get your rpm's up & the other is to keep your wheels use those rpms. Any inputs/physics lessons:)?

Also, are the kooks headers the most effective part of a full kooks exhaust? How much are they alone & what is the performance difference of just getting that part of the exhaust upgrade?

(I would have to say that the only reason someone goes w/ more cats is noise suppression. That's the only reason I've heard a perf shop even suggest having more. I can't call bull on that one because no other reason makes sense)

thanks
Not pointless, it's just that most of us would like to do all associated mods in an area at one time. i.e. gears, girdle, chip reprogram, possible driveshaft as one area (the rear end has to be opened so do all the stuff there at once)then tranny, converter, rear cooling mod as another area (the tranny has to be out so do all the stuff there at once). Labor charges will eat up your mod budget if you're not careful. The torque converter and tranny stuff will easily exceed your $1500.00 limit. The rear end stuff will not.

The Kooks headers can be bought without the rest of the system, but the problem with that is finding a shop that has a mandrel bender and uses stainless tubing. If you don't care about the more restrictive crush bent pipes and the aluminized tubing, have at it. But the labor of custom fabrication will probably be higher than the pre-fabbed stainless, mandrel bent, bolt-in system. Either way, when you add the labor charges for the header installation you will likely exceed your $1500.00 limit.

The reason for four OEM cats is indeed emissions related, not noise reduction. It is that way for many more Ford product lines than the panther chassis and has been that way for a number of years.

[Donny Carlson]

That doesn't sound right to me. All the panthers have four cats, right? Why would ours be an exception? It isn't for noise reasons, they need four to pass - well atleast four of Ford's cats to pass. I'm supposed to believe they designed the Marauder with a two cat setup and gave it four *only* to suppress noise? I'm calling bull**** on this one.
According to a friend of mine who's a Ford Senior Master Tech, the first pair of cats are "light off cats" for the second pair. This increases efficiency and lifespan of the cats, but does add some restriction of airflow. Replacing these with single cats (like Magnaflows, which is illegal unless the OEMS are bad or damaged......;) ;) ) you'll still pass emissions, but may get an efficiency code thrown and they'll fail eventually, much faster then the originals.

[GreekGod]

<HR style="COLOR: #dddddd" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->


Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by GreekGod

so they added another pair of cats

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I finally figured it out-I was quoting Ken from post #11. Sorry from my poor computer skills.

[AzMarauder]

I couldn't agree with you more. This is thread has done more for my decisions than anyhing and I'm digging the interest & responses from you all.

I have felt some leaning towards the TC, UD's, gears & kooks as the most significant mods mentioned.

A few things I've been thinking about is that I really don't think I'm concerned w/ suspension.
I haven't been leaning towards a drag car as much as a big top-end sleeper.
I love how this car sounds quiet until I put my foot into it.
The idea of getting this thing to lay rubber is nice too.

For some reason I have this hesitancy about gears.
Maybe it's that when it comes to mechanics/physics I get lost.
For some reason I have this thought that I would be required to buy more just to make the best of it.
Would a torque converter be pointless w/o a gear change? I mean they both are for the low end. It sounds like one is to get your rpm's up & the other is to keep your wheels use those rpms. Any inputs/physics lessons:)?

Also, are the kooks headers the most effective part of a full kooks exhaust? How much are they alone & what is the performance difference of just getting that part of the exhaust upgrade?

(I would have to say that the only reason someone goes w/ more cats is noise suppression. That's the only reason I've heard a perf shop even suggest having more. I can't call bull on that one because no other reason makes sense)

thanks
The thing about the gears is it puts the engine in the useable torque / hp band much quicker. The driveability is SIGNIFICANT. You notice it on take off... on deceleration...

It doesn't change horsepower an ounce... but it makes the car quicker....

Not that I did it "correctly" but from what I gathered from those folks I spoke with I knew my endstate would be Supercharged. So I picked an XCAL with Lidio because it could be used with the S/C. Next time I had some coin I did gears because it could be used with the S/C. (no wasted money as I progressed) Then widened rims and wider tires. Finally the S/C, JLT, and DR exhaust. Other than electrons for the first Lidio tune there was no wasted effort in my progression. I admit I was fortunate to be able to come up with enough to S/C realtively early (less than one year ownership) thus I didn't have to really test my will power.

But that would be my bottom line. Decide on the end state and then plug it the parts that work with it... and don't settle for something in the interim that doesn't compliment the endstate. Wasted money and time.