Hot Air Intake ???

[bears34]

I noticed that while all the guys on the Crown Victoria forums are going to the Marauder intake and saying the K&N sucks (pun intended), the Marauder guys are using the hot air intake, whether it be K&N, JLT or another manufacturer. Any reasons for this?

I like the look and sounds of the K&N (I had one on my 2000 Maxima, and loved it.) , but I also understand that the larger MAF from the Marauder intake is a bonus, too.

thanks

[O's Fan Rich]

Actually... it's aCOLD air intake.
The idea is to avoid the ingestion of hot air. That's why they work ( search for the dyno results) and they sound cool when you stand on it and the rpm's go up!

[bears34]

Actually... it's aCOLD air intake.
The idea is to avoid the ingestion of hot air. That's why they work ( search for the dyno results) and they sound cool when you stand on it and the rpm's go up!

Right..."cold" air intake.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you don't actually think that, do you? If it is sucking air from the engine bay, and not from a fender well, it is sucking "hot" air.
I've read dyno results from K&N, and they are very good (I want them to be true but I think they are biased).

I just want to get as many points of view from a different forum. basically, I want to be talked out of getting the K&N (which I don't have to get reprogrammed like I would if I were to get the Marauder airbax and MAF)

[SouLRioT]

The way I'm reading your first post is that you have a CV yourself? If I'm correct most of our info is not going to be the same, I have the K&N on my MM and it helps, how much more is about 5-10 HP, but on the Trilogy MMs they've seen some realy good number around 20 HP or so with one more PSI of boost. But are you going to use the K&N kit for the MM on your CV or is there another kit for the CV?

[O's Fan Rich]

Right..."cold" air intake.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you don't actually think that, do you? If it is sucking air from the engine bay, and not from a fender well, it is sucking "hot" air.
I've read dyno results from K&N, and they are very good (I want them to be true but I think they are biased).

I just want to get as many points of view from a different forum. basically, I want to be talked out of getting the K&N (which I don't have to get reprogrammed like I would if I were to get the Marauder airbax and MAF)

Perhaps you should take some time and see how one is actually installed. Then you might better understand the way they work. When you do, gey back to me and we will discuss this some more.

[Breadfan]

You are basically correct. The design that has the filter element within the engine compartment and not in the lower fenderwell is called "WAI" or Warm Air Intake. A true CAI has ducting to below the engine so it sucks air from outside the car.

JLT reduces the WAI effect with a shield around the filter element, K&N uses a rubber-gasketed baffle to seperate the filter element from the rest of the engine compartment.

While one can go on and discuss the pros and cons of each they certainly do not make either a true CAI. Hence why some remove the headlight when racing, helps them become more of a CAI.

You will see differing opinions on the setup. Some have also tested the inlet air temps to see a difference between the two - I refuse to comment on that since I do not have numbers in my hand. And those numbers may not even be accurate if not tested in a controled environment.

I went with the JLT and for now I'm happy. On a stock Marauder I don't think the difference in performance gains is all that much. The "bling" factor and noise change from the intake is what got me grinning more than seat of the pants. In that respect the price difference pointed me to the JLT. Thusfar I am happy, but I have not yet compared it directly to a K&N unit.

If I had a K&N unit I could use my XCal2 to test how the inlet air temps are affected in a controlled environment. And a flowbench could compare flow.

Dyno results would also be good but again, only if in a controlled environment.

No easy answer, ya know?

[Breadfan]

Perhaps you should take some time and see how one is actually installed. Then you might better understand the way they work. When you do, gey back to me and we will discuss this some more.

As far as I'm concerned the actual definition of a CAI does have the air being directed straight from an out-of-engine bay source. I know the K&N has the baffle but I'm unsure how much insulation it provides. While that air may be cooler than in an unbaffled area, it's still warm and not truly outside air. (When the headlight is removed that does change this quite a bit though)

Since I don't own one I can't really speak for this, and again, to me, numbers speak more than speculation does.

The K&N is a nice kit I do agree!

I've seen one installed up close, and still don't feel it's a true CAI.

[O's Fan Rich]

I hit the "search" feature on the top line.
Herer's some stuff to read, if you wanna
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9336&highlight=K%26N
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13813&highlight=K%26N
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13448&highlight=K%26N
http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14133
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14369&highlight=K%26N
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16844&highlight=K%26N
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14133&highlight=K%26N

Ok, that's enough. Please be sure to read as much as you can. There are some dyno results and a comparison or two. This might help you to decide if it's worth your cash.
Enjoy!!:banana:

[FordNut]

One thing to keep in mind is that it is very rare that a hood is closed during dyno testing. So are power gains really accurate for the conical filter tests?

I personally do believe the heat shroud with weatherstrip which the k&n uses is functional but doubt the other type of heat shield has much effect.

On the other hand, if you're running a blower and moving tons of air, you run into a situation where warm/hot air is better than no air, so it's worthwhile to change anyway. And in some instances there is no choice but to change because of s/c inlet routing or intercooler mounting.

[merc6]

there are holes where the filter sits on both setups. The stock airbox and bellows may have colder air but that air is not as direct as the K&N, JLT or even my custom setup I jhad before the K&N. The non shielded intake had noticable gains just hovering over the gas rom a stop even tho only on the hiway did it realy proform. Thats where I noticed the big difrence over most intake s on this car. Trust me if I could use the fender or lower bumper I would ;)

[Marauder2005]

I noticed that while all the guys on the Crown Victoria forums are going to the Marauder intake and saying the K&N sucks (pun intended), the Marauder guys are using the hot air intake, whether it be K&N, JLT or another manufacturer. Any reasons for this?

I like the look and sounds of the K&N (I had one on my 2000 Maxima, and loved it.) , but I also understand that the larger MAF from the Marauder intake is a bonus, too.

thanks

Do you have any relationship to "Metroplex"? :lol: :D

[Smokie]

It's my opinion this air box isolates the filter from engine compartment hot air best.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/4/8/TrilogySupercharger004Medium.j pg

[FordNut]

Smokie,
I agree to "isolates". Not "insulates". Best option would be a similar design which is made of a heat insulating (plastic?) material instead of a heat conductor (metal?). Or maybe paint the metal one with thermal barrier paint.

P.S. That engine compartment sure looks good. Nobody can argue about the Trilogy looking great and fitting like an OEM setup.

[merc6]

I'm bias to my "Luke Warm" intake then ;)

[QWK SVT]

I have a JLT, and did some datalogging with my XCal2 (It's amazing what you can do with that thing) and laptop... Sure, if you sit there with the engine running, the IAT's will go up, but as soon as you start moving, the IAT's start to drop.

Also, the engine needs to be quite hot, for it to heat the air up, too... Most of us don't hot lap at the track, so it's really a non-issue. After a good cool down, the engine will be the same as ambient. It took almost two minutes (very low speed and idling) for the coolant temp to raise 20*. After one hard acceleration event, it quickly jumped by another 40 degrees. It wasn't until well after reaching normal operating temperature before I really documented a big jump in standing IAT's. It took 10-minutes of hard driving, actually... Basically, if you're cooling down between runs, you don't have much to worry about.

disclaimer: the above was recorded on a 75* day - YMMV

[Smokie]

Smokie,
I agree to "isolates". Not "insulates". Best option would be a similar design which is made of a heat insulating (plastic?) material instead of a heat conductor (metal?). Or maybe paint the metal one with thermal barrier paint.

P.S. That engine compartment sure looks good. Nobody can argue about the Trilogy looking great and fitting like an OEM setup.

You are right Brian, I choose my words carefully.:D The SS absorbs engine heat, I can insulate the cover for true insulation but sacrifice looks ( I guess I'm vain.:D ) The truth is that I have enough engine power to propel car into mid 12's, maybe evn low 12's if cold air existed in Florida.

As long as I have stock wheels and tires, they will be limiting factor for 1/4 mile ET's. Thanks for the compliment.

[Dragcity]

I'm considering Attempting a 'Cold Air Intake' and looked at the JLT and like it and the $$. I am wondering why we dont use some piping/venting to take the place of the inlet from under the bumper area?

I intend to get a good look at this next nice day I'm free. I like that polished aluminum piping and think we should be able to fabricate something.

I'm sure someone has already looked into this, but I haven't heard any chatter about this approach...

[jawz101]

I'm biased towards the PHP CAI as well. It's about the closest commercial one I've seen to CAI. This homemade setup (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12500&highlight=dryer) from 1 member is about the closest thing I've seen to cold air

[DEFYANT]

I was going nuts looking for that thread!

thanks.

[jawz101]

yeah... I dunno if I could do that though. I would have at least painted the grill and front of it black so it would be a lil more hidden. Nice project though.

I think you can see deer whistles on the last 2 pics:rolleyes:

[SID210SA]

yeah... I dunno if I could do that though. I would have at least painted the grill and front of it black so it would be a lil more hidden. Nice project though.

I think you can see deer whistles on the last 2 pics:rolleyes:

or you could use Defyant's lower grill mod in conjuction...:coolman:

[bears34]

Thanks guys. You've been a big help. It seems like you Marauder guys actually read and respond to your forums with solutions and answers.
To answer any questioins:
a. I own a 2003 Crown Vic Police Interceptor
b. K&N does make a kit for the Crown Vic
c. I have no idea who Metroplex is and don't know why you think I would, Marauder2005?

[bears34]

SID210SA, can you tell me what treatment you used for your taillights?

[Dragcity]

Thank you for the link. I have an idea. As I see it, we have a path to front, outside air. We need to get enough of it. Can we use all the openings that are part of the "lower grill mod" and tie it all into a main plenum to be pulled through the venting and into the conical JLT filter (or type). The filter would have to be insulated and enclosed to segregate from ambient engine temps.

Granted a lot of work and fabrication, but may be well worth it. Not sure if stealing the air from the low tranny cooler would cause problems there, but another thing to consider in the design. I wish I had the time to do this. Could be mocked up with thin cardboard and then fabbed out of Carbon fiber, aluminum, stainless...

You drag racers (who don't want your hood chopped) should look into something like this.

Just another thought. we could go back to the 'Aftermarket Air Conditioning' thread and try that approach. A 10,000 BTU air conditioner out in front of the removed driver-side headlight.. Where's or Photoshopper????

[jawz101]

for some reason metroplex has a marauder air filter box in his crownvic/grand marquis. I also didn't know if that would lend gains to other panther models oem air boxes. I'll sell ya one for 20 bucks regardless.

bears- m2k5 is just jokin'. metroplex is all over the Crown Vic forums and ours. He offers some ok insight but we tell him to just go ahead and get a Marauder.

I think it's overkill to do any fabrication on getting a ram air intake... but that's just me.

[DEFYANT]

The newer CVPIs have Marauder air boxes. FYI. 2003 CVPI may already be equipt.

[bears34]

The whole reason the CVs are going with the Marauder box is due to the 80mm MAF. The 2005 or 2006 may have the Marauder intake, but I know mine doesn't...bummer. I'll need to buy the Marauder intake kit with the MAF for $180 and get a microtuner for $375 to reprogram the computer.
The Marauder also has a "zip tube" with less bends leading to the TB.

[SID210SA]

SID210SA, can you tell me what treatment you used for your taillights?

They are called "Vynal Shades" made from a thin sheet of plastic that you heat and shape to the lenz and then cut out the excess...I'll try to send you a p.m. on it....:coolman:

[SID210SA]

SID210SA, can you tell me what treatment you used for your taillights?

P.M. sent.....:coolman:

[SergntMac]

The very first time I read the phrase "cold air intake", I disagreed with the term. Apply some logic here, gents.

The stock air box seals off engine bay air and sucks air exclusively through a portal in the core support, from behind the driver's side headlight module. By nature of it's collection, this is colder air, but air flow is restricted by the size of the portal, and again by a flat panel filter inside the air box. I imagine flow and temps improve when the car is moving forward.

The aftermarket kits mentioned here include a larger conical filter that sucks air from all directions around it, shield in place or not. However, this air is the same volume of colder outside air blended with warmer engine bay air. I would expect air flow to improve 100 percent, but not without warming to some degree.

Those who have documented solid gains from aftermarket kits are forgetting one thing. They are getting a dyno tune at the same time they are documenting, a tune that takes advantage of having more air available at idle, or, without forward movement. Even if not retuning, just measuring, it's still more air with less restriction. This is why a retune is also often suggested, to glean out the total benefits of the kit.

If you're not following me, imagine breathing through a garden hose while you run around the block, and do it again replacing the garden hose with a radiator hose. More air is better, and more air produces gains and that's all that happening here.

The fact that the kits blend outside air with engine bay air makes the "cold" of little importance in any gains. Calling it a "cold air intake" is simply wrong, because it's not improving the availability of cold air. The portal on the core support isn't any bigger, and the source is not exclusively outside air anymore.

The "heat shields" are likewise mis-named. Simply being made of metal, they absorb and eventually radiate heat themselves. There may be some limited benefit here, but shielding heat? Not.

Just my .02c...Carry On, gents.