Questions about Modifications?

[V10_P70]

Looking at several posts lately, it seems when a problem occurs with a modified car, the next step is to remove the modification and play dumb to the dealer. The questions needs to be asked "How come these parts can not stand up to the dealer review?".

Organizations like SEMA promote and help specialized vendors to build parts for the aftermarket. This organization has been instrumental in getting laws passed so that modified cars do not get dealer void warranty issues.

Why then, are we going out of our way to remove these parts from our car's?

[Directedby]

One reason and one reason only - MONEY.

If a dealer can blame the problem on an aftermarket device, he will, therefore voiding the warranty and saving him/Ford any repair costs.

[Mad1]

Originally posted by V10_P70
Why then, are we going out of our way to remove these parts from our car's?


I think it's because most people are scared to stand up to dealers, whom they think are more "knowledgable."

Check out this previous thread. Federal Law (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=23263#post23263)

Dealers must be able to prove that a modification caused the failure, not just deny you warranty service. Just remember to throw the The Magnuson-Moss Act at your dealer if they talk about voiding your warranty because of a mod. If they don't know exactly what that means, then you're talking to someone who is likely trying to get away with charging you for a warranty repair.

[jgc61sr2002]

Mad1 - The federal law is good but it is not an overnight fix. If you have a problem it could take months or perhaps years to resolve in the courts if it goes that far. Remember the dealer has all the time in the world, It's your car that will be tied up in litigation. IMHO it is better to be safe than sorry. It is not a matter of standing up to the dealer. John

[RF Overlord]

As posted by prchrman in another thread:

use a little common sense...it always helps...

Chips, 4.10s, different mufflers, etc...are well-established mods that have been done to cars for YEARS, with little or no negative side effects. Start putting on nitrous, massive blowers with 15 lbs. of boost, and cutting the wheel-wells to make room for drag slicks and you're now asking for the big denial plan from your dealer...

With that said, jgc is right; dealers have two things in their favour: time, and lawyers on retainer...

[CRUZTAKER]

^^^what he said^^^

I have absolutely NO FEAR of any complications, as long as I keep the mods reasonable, and do not go out of my way to ask for trouble.

Just me....we're all different.

[martyo]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
lawyers on retainer...

Usually that is music to my ears, but in this instance, it is not! Remember, the dealers fight these battles literally for a living. There battle to disclaim is not just with the customer that is standing in front of them, but all future customers with "modded out" cars. They fear the question of "where is the line drawn?" The cost will always be cheaper for the dealer to fight you than for you to fight the dealer. The dealer has much more at stake in the future.

Why give the dealer the opening for a fight? Pull the easy stuff out (like the chip) and don't worry the hidden stuff like the gears. This approach just betters your chances of avoiding problems and disputes.

Best part about our cars is that because most of the dealers are clueless on what came with the car in the first place, most of them don;t know how the car should look or be set up when it is "stock". So far, my dealer hasn't noticed a thing about my car (even though I did NOT pull my chip and they were under the dash......).

[jgc61sr2002]

Marty You are right the dealers are clueless. But give them a reason and they will start some serious looking. John

[SergntMac]

I do not disagree with any of the posts here, but I would like to make a slight correction.

"Dealers" do not provide any warranty, everything they do to our MM is reimbursed by LM with claim numbers. The way I hear it, it's the wrench that diagnoses the need for repair, and he gets a proceedure number and claim number from a computer, or, a warranty hot line. All repairs require pre-approval, and certain repairs require inspection before repair. No approval, no pay out.

From the dealer's point of view, it's all back room business he needs to stay open, and he really doesn't care who's paying the bill, as long as it gets paid under his roof. Unfortunately, the dealer gets to deliver the bad news when it's bad news, and it's the dealer, through his wrench, that gets something questionable approved or not. If they are on your side, cool. If not, should we expect them to go forward with any repair without assurance of payment? I think not, and this is where "we with mods" get stuck in the middle.

Motors could run up to 10K to replace, and for the first few years of a car's production, we should mod with caution. If there is something flawed in a design somewhere that doesn't surface untill 10K miles, and we would normally be entitled to the a fix for free, we may disqualify ourselves by having a mod present on the car. If my MM were two years old already, I wouldn't care, the bugs would have been worked out by then. But, it's not, and there is no previous model year history to guide us, so, it's mod with caution, for now, and be ready to unbolt what you can.

If it's something big, like motor or trans, and the factory won't pay up, the dealer still doesn't want to lose your back room business. At this point, a smart dealers will argue and appeal on your behalf, because they do not want you to spend your repair money elsewhere.

Just my .02C

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by SergntMac

...for the first few years of a car's production, we should mod with caution. If there is something flawed in a design somewhere that doesn't surface untill 10K miles,

...there is no previous model year history to guide us,

Sarge, you are of course right about the car itself, but I thought the motor (with the exception of the intake) and transmission, which are the two most likely to have a catastrophic (expensive) failure, have already been established in other models for a number of years?

[LincMercLover]

The BLOCK itself has, but this "design" of the motor hasn't. They took the DOHC heads, put 5.4L spec cams in, and the Rousch intake on top. Not to mention the possible redesign on the exhaust manafolds. The tranny is an established one, but not with this program/configuration I don't think.

[darebren]

Mods!? what mods! I mean I have no idea what is in there...mods? what do you mean? Are you saying that when I leant my car to my neighbor for a couple days, he went and installed a chip, themo, plugs and 4.10's!? that bastard!

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Sarge, you are of course right about the car itself, but I thought the motor (with the exception of the intake) and transmission, which are the two most likely to have a catastrophic (expensive) failure, have already been established in other models for a number of years?

Sorry if I have caused any confusion on this, but to be honest here, I don't know where the MM motor came from. It could be a full 4.6L Cobra motor, with a flipped intake, or, it could be a knock off built for the MM. There are so many versions of the 4.6L DOHC, I'm lost. If anyone can point me to a tech site that can explain what's inside the box, in the detail I would like to see, I would appreciate it. Because I don't know, I'm assuming the MM motor is a first year design, and I suppose I'm just being cautious about it.

[looking97233]

Sarge, I don't know exactly what is different either, but here is a pic of the 4.6DOHC in a 2001 SVT Cobra. It does look very, very similiar. Turn the intake around and? Mabye it is just a reversed intake and different cams? Can anybody awnser this?

[LincMercLover]

Between the 5.4L spec cams, that intake, and I'm thinking exhaust manafolds, these are the only differences between the motors.

[SaxGuy]

Cobra motors are also hand built

[SergntMac]

Okay, I'm nominating myself for the Darwin award on this question, so, flame away.

Somewhere I got the impression that the Cobra motor has a cast iron block, steel forged innards, and we got all aluminum block and cast innards? That why I'm wondering if the MM motor was a Cobra like design, but a LM build. I'm hurting for 411 on our motors.

[looking97233]

Sarge- Our motor is very similar to the 2001 Cobra motor. The 2003 Supercharged Cobra does indeed have forged internals and an iron block.

[SergntMac]

I added something to this, but in another thread. Look in the Garage for "Update" It's about Mad 3R's motor.