About Baer Brakes....

[Zack]

Ive had it,:mad: but Im giving them one more shot.
First set of rotors warped within 5000 miles. Many calls of dis-satisfaction to Baer. They kept telling me to go through the bedding process and season them again. Blah Blah Blah. They said there was too much pad transfer on the rotor and frequent panic stops are necessary because they ARE A PERFORMANCE BRAKE. They also say these rotors cant be turned! :bs:
BS. I know when a rotor is warped. So after 6 months of them telling me no rotors were available I got a new set sent to me. They wanted me to send the old rotors back but they didnt include a return tag so I kept them. :rasta:
Now, new rotors are installed with obvious improvents in the way of more material and thicker webbing (fins). First clue I wasnt nuts for being unhappy with the first set. After installation, I broke the pads and rotors in exactly how the sheet tells you to. They seem to be fine.
Drive on this for a few thousand miles then go to Florida. Long story short, the rotors are warped when I get home from 1200 miles on the highway. Makes no sense to me. Call Baer back and get the same nonsense explanation about excessive pad transfer and panic stops burn this transfer off and correct the warped feel.
BS. :bs:
I took the rotors in to be cut and what do you know? It took .013 on each side to true them up. They are not warped, its just pad transfer! Im an **** idiot, right?
So, just had them cut again for good measure and bought Ceramix Pads from Napa. $99 over the counter. Fits 97 and newer Vettes.
Ill keep everyone updated, but this foolishness has almost been as difficult as writing this post. :censor:

[DEFYANT]

Sorry to hear this.

I hope you are not predicting my future. Has anyone else had similar experiance?

[SergntMac]

Sorry to hear this. I hope you are not predicting my future. Has anyone else had similar experiance? Yep. John H. Russo, a member here, has been through two sets of Baer rotors on his Kenny Brown Marauder S. I had to cut my Baer rotors on my 1x late last year, and my Baer brakes went into service in 2002!

Baer makes a good product, I love my stopping power. But and IMHO, the problem is the quality of the rotor itself. Knowing that Baer does not produce their own rotors, it could be that their new "EradiSpeed" rotor is the culprit. I don't have the EradiSpeed rotor, nor did I have a problem with warping. But, my rotors were eating up pads much too soon, and cutting the rotors was one approach in problem solving. Ceramic pads is another.

In all fairness, Baer isn't at fault when their suppliers skimp on quality, much like Ford isn't at fault for the quality of our rear axles. However, IMHO, both are responsible for doing the right thing for their customers. Baer telling customers to run out and hit the brakes hard just doesn't make sense to me. I complained of short pad life and they told me the same thing. "Hit them harder" ?

I took Zack's rotors to the grinder today, we cut .02 off the rotors in two passes to set them true, a total of .04 off the rotor. They look good, but still have a high spot I'm not pleased with. This spells "out of round" to me, but we'll see what happens once Zack gets his Marauder back on the pavement.

BTW, whomever says to y'all that "slotted and cross-drilled rotors can't be cut", doesn't have the right tools to service brakes and would rather sell you a new set of rotors than buy the right equipment.

[drobin]

I have the KVR complete package for over a year and couldn't be more satisfied thanks to Dennis Reinhart.

drobin
"Donald"

[DEFYANT]

I've got about 1000 miles since the install without a problem and a sweet deal on the kit thanks to Jerry Barnes.

Guess I'll have to wait and see. Sebring will be a good test.

[merc]

I don’t have Baer brakes, but have experienced rotor pulsation described in this tread. The TCE kit is shipped with (http://www.colemanracing.com/) Colman Racing Rotors. From what I understand many aftermarket brake kits use this rotor. I called Todd about this issue last year and in short he recommenced bedding the brake pads. The Willwood Q pads offer a tight clearance between the rotors and pads, but with wear the space is increased. I don’t notice much vibration now, and very satisfied with performance and feel. I would be very interested in how you solve your braking issues Zack.

[SergntMac]

I've got about 1000 miles since the install without a problem and a sweet deal on the kit thanks to Jerry Barnes. Guess I'll have to wait and see. Sebring will be a good test. This is good news, Charlie, thanks. Maybe we're past the trouble?

Can't help asking, what did you spend?

[FordNut]

I have the KVR complete package for over a year and couldn't be more satisfied thanks to Dennis Reinhart.

drobin
"Donald"
You've had better luck than me. Mine have been cut once and need it again. Probably out of spec so I'm shopping around for new rotors.

[sweetair]

I've got about 1700 miles on mine and there is a little pulsing upon hard braking. They squeak quite a bit to. And I too am told by Baer Customer Service to bed the pads. I wanted a new set of pads sent to me. I'm not sure re: thew pulsing because I had to move my balance weights in about 2-3 inches and apply with duct tape as a tepm because they were hitting the caliper. I have a new set of Nittos for the front and rear(and widened rims) and I am waiting to see if the pulsing disappears after they are installed and rebalanced. I am also obviously getting some tire feel thru the steering wheel at high speeds, 80+mph due the need of a balance. It is surprisingly not that bad, but noticable. I'm curious if this is generalized rotor issue with Baer.

[DEFYANT]

I've got about 1700 miles on mine and there is a little pulsing upon hard braking. They squeak quite a bit to. And I too am told by Baer Customer Service to bed the pads. I wanted a new set of pads sent to me. I'm not sure re: thew pulsing because I had to move my balance weights in about 2-3 inches and apply with duct tape as a tepm because they were hitting the caliper. I have a new set of Nittos for the front and rear(and widened rims) and I am waiting to see if the pulsing disappears after they are installed and rebalanced. I am also obviously getting some tire feel thru the steering wheel at high speeds, 80+mph due the need of a balance. It is surprisingly not that bad, but noticable. I'm curious if this is generalized rotor issue with Baer.

I had the same problem with the wheel weights. They must be the high speed weights on the outer most part of the rim.

After I removed the weights the wheel fit fine. It wasn't a problem until about 80mph. There was a little vibration. I had the front wheels rebalanced and all is well now.

[MI2QWK4U]

Zack,
I havent put any miles on the baer brakes yet since having them installed, save driving it 3 miles home from Lid's shop. Too much salt and snow to drive it lately. You mentioned bedding, can you elaborate on this and what the best or most recommended method of breaking them in and seasoning them propely. Any advice or input is greatly appreciated.

[DEFYANT]

Dave, I know you addressed this to Zack, but if I may add my .02...

I called Baer on this since the directions suggest you do one first then the other (Rotors & Pads). This was not practical for me so I called them up.

I was told by Baer to install the complete kit and drive easy for the first 500 miles. Then proceed with the bedding and seasoning as instructed. I did just that.

After the 500 miles, I drove up to the N/E meet where I did the proceedure on the unused runway.

I then drove the car for about another 400 miles since without a problem.

Flame suit on, I am sure someone will have something negative to say about this!

[sweetair]

I had the same problem with the wheel weights. They must be the high speed weights on the outer most part of the rim.

After I removed the weights the wheel fit fine. It wasn't a problem until about 80mph. There was a little vibration. I had the front wheels rebalanced and all is well now.This is good to hear. I am ssssooooooooo looking forward to getting those Notto's on. I am waiting for a little warmer weather, and trying to use a little more tread.

[MI2QWK4U]

Dave, I know you addressed this to Zack, but if I may add my .02...

I called Baer on this since the directions suggest you do one first then the other (Rotors & Pads). This was not practical for me so I called them up.

I was told by Baer to install the complete kit and drive easy for the first 500 miles. Then proceed with the bedding and seasoning as instructed. I did just that.

After the 500 miles, I drove up to the N/E meet where I did the proceedure on the unused runway.

I then drove the car for about another 400 miles since without a problem.

Flame suit on, I am sure someone will have something negative to say about this!


Sorry Charlie, I didnt mean for that to omit advice from others, I didnt realize Zack had this kind of problems and was hoping to hear his specific info. Can you elaborate on what exactly you did to bed the brakes after being easy on them for a few hundred miles?

[DEFYANT]

After the 500 miles, I simply followed the instructions that came with the brakes.

[MI2QWK4U]

After the 500 miles, I simply followed the instructions that came with the brakes.


So thats your secret! Instructions, thats a novel idea! I will have to find them...

[Donny Carlson]

I had Jason turn them (drilled, slotted) to take out a vibration right at the end, and was about to put on new pads. Baer pads are like $94 for the fronts, though they take their time filling orders. I had great service out of my Baers, lots of comments. The new owner loves em. Thumbs up.

[Zack]

So thats your secret! Instructions, thats a novel idea! I will have to find them...

My instruction sheet told me to bed the pads Immediately!????
Like I said, Ive had it but they look so cool :D

[BillyGman]

Please! Zack, Defyant, please tell us what in the world the two of you are talking about. What the heck does "bedding the brakes" mean????? yes yes we know.."the directions say it"...but what exactly do they say??? What is the exact procedure required to bed them??????? Nobody is answering this, and both Dave and I would like to know. Please explain!!!

[jdando]

Here is a "bedding" process stolen from some other brake re-sellers website....

Most processes are similar, with minor changes.


From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about 45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this couple of times to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.
Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely and sit for any length of time with your foot on the brake pedal, you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors. (Note: With some less aggressive street pads, you may need to do fewer than eight near-stops. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)
The brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even smoke, is normal.
After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and cruise for a while, using the brakes as little as possible. The brakes need 5 to 10 minutes to cool down. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still hot.
If club race pads, such as Hawk Blue, are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph. If full race pads, such as Performance Friction 01 or Hawk HT 14, are being used, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph.
After the break-in cycle, there should be a slight blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.
After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. This is especially true if you have installed new pads on old rotors. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer. If necessary, bleed the brakes (http://www.zeckhausen.com/bleeding_brakes.htm) to improve pedal firmness.Your mileage will vary, some settling will occur, flame suit on. This is presented as information on one way to do it, not the only way in the world to do it.

jeremy

[jim geary]

So guys, tell me. Are the Bear brakes worth the trouble or would I be better
off going with a different manufacture? Reason I ask is mine have been on
order for almost 3 months now and if they are going to be a problem than I
would rather get my money back and get something else. Talk to me.
Jim Geary.

[Zack]

So guys, tell me. Are the Bear brakes worth the trouble or would I be better
off going with a different manufacture? Reason I ask is mine have been on
order for almost 3 months now and if they are going to be a problem than I
would rather get my money back and get something else. Talk to me.
Jim Geary.

Some people have great luck, others dont.
Kinda like the whole Eibach debate, you have to try them out and see for yourself

[SergntMac]

So guys, tell me. Are the Bear brakes worth the trouble or would I be better off going with a different manufacture? Reason I ask is mine have been on order for almost 3 months now and if they are going to be a problem than I would rather get my money back and get something else. Talk to me. Jim Geary. Take a peek here, Jim. I like this option a lot, and I'm getting a kit for my #3 Marauder.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24337

[blackf0rk]

My personaly opinion is that Baer brakes are riding on their name now - thanks to Overhaulin' :down: It's not just on this board that it seems Baer is a manufacturer producing a hit-or-miss product. On this board and others I've heard the same things - poor warping rotors and little to no customer support.

In defense to their name (what is good for anyways?) there seems to be other people completely satisfied with them. Again though...it's a gamble. When you buy the kit, will you be the one screwed or the one happy you got a good kit?

I don't know about you, but spending 1K on a hit-or-miss product is not a wise investment; I don't care whose name is on it.

[Cheeseheadbob]

I am going to chime in here. I had an issue with a damaged rotor in shipment. There was no way the rotor could have been damaged enroute. I got in touch with Baer through Trilogy, and I had a replacement rotor within days with a return authorization from Baer for the damaged part. I have done the "seasoning" and "bedding" procedures and am enjoying the awesome stopping power. I have 2000 miles on the brakes so far and have only had some minor squeeks at very low speeds. IMHO it is a great setup, not only performance wise, but damn they look good!

[BillyGman]

Jeremy, thanks for that definitive answer. :up: I wanted to know this, because even though I don't have Baer brakes on my Marauder, I just bought the 11" ones for my Chevelle. But it didn't say anything in the directions that I got with my Baer kit about having to "bed" the brakes.

So I'm not at all sure if this is just something that has to be done with their 13" and 14" rotors or not. Perhaps I'll call them to ask about this. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a straight answer on that one though. With some of these after market companies, it's a matter of who answers the telephone when you call. Some of their employees are very unknowledgeable, and will often tell you whatever they might think that you want to hear, be it right or wrong. :rolleyes:

Although the factory brakes on Marauders aren't great, the one positive thing that I have to say about them is that they're really lasting me a long time. I have 42,000 miles on them, and they've just recently beggan to show signs of a replacement being needed. No squeling or gtinding yet, but the pedal is getting low as is the fluid level due to some pad and rotor wear. I've never had brakes last me 40,000 miles before on any car that I've owned. I'm pretty hard on brakes.

[69mach1]

In the past I've experienced rotor warping when the wheel lug nuts were put on via air impact and not a star pattern. Since then I've used a torque wrench applied via star pattern and no issues. This has been with OEM brakes(not a MM), I didn't know if it may play a part in the Baer rotors warping...
2 cents for a Sunday.

69mach1

[DEFYANT]

I am finding a lot of brake dust and some squealing sometimes. It goes away with some good driving that gets the brakes nice and hot.

[stevengerard]

I have the KVRs from Dennis, no problems, I did a lighter version of what Jeremy posted. Hopefully your 3 miles from Lidio's shop didn't do too much to the rotors Mike. I did the break-in as soon as the car came off the lift and let it sit for an hour before I drove it again.

[G-Man]

Overall, I have had great success with the Baer brakes. Unbelievable stopping power, no squeals, etc. I have literally beat the piss out of these things, 140+ with hard stabs down to 35, then back again for several cycles. Not a bit of fade, nothing, just pure confidence.

I warped the sh@! out of the first set of fronts that I had. Twice! Baer replaced them free of charge then followed up to find out that the mechanic didn't use a torque wrench for the caps or wheels. The new set has 15K on them and have been flawless.

That's been my experience.

[Zack]

Overall, I have had great success with the Baer brakes.
I warped the sh@! out of the first set of fronts that I had. Twice! Baer replaced them free of charge then followed up to find out that the mechanic didn't use a torque wrench for the caps or wheels.
That's been my experience.

Thank you. You've had a piss poor experience with Baer Brakes like the rest of us.

[G-Man]

Thank you. You've had a piss poor experience with Baer Brakes like the rest of us.

I guess from the "glass half empty" look, that could be true.

[DEFYANT]

I guess from the "glass half emty" look, that could be true.

:lol:

Stop, yer killin me!

[BillyGman]

Unfortunately, the Baer brake break-in procedure is even more complicated than the one listed here in this thread. I just copied and pasted the entire laborious procedure from the Baer website in a new thread......

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25288

[AzMarauder]

My instruction sheet told me to bed the pads Immediately!????
Like I said, Ive had it but they look so cool :D

Look... my wife is pretty understanding.....
But if I show up in bed with a set of brake pads I fear the worst !:rolleyes:

There just HAS to be a better way ? :burnout:

[Badger]

Has anyone looked at freezing these rotors?
You know...the cryo treatment instead of the first step of the break-in procedure for the Baers?

[BillyGman]

Has anyone looked at freezing these rotors?
You know...the cryo treatment instead of the first step of the break-in procedure for the Baers? I dunno, but you're killin' me with that avatar. :D Whenever I see it, I can't get that crazy song out of my head...BADGER..BADGER.. BADGER......

[Badger]

Mushroom!:banana:

[MI2QWK4U]

What do you torque the lug nuts at?

[Breadfan]

What do you torque the lug nuts at?

I'm not entirely sure that's as important as torquing to the same value all around. Obviously over or under-doing it would be a problem, but having different torque per lug will cause warping mighty fast on any rotor.

G-Man's experience can be tied to bad torquing, it's a variable that atleast sped up the rotor warping. Look at how proper torque has given him 15,000 miles an no warping on his current set. I doubt the rotor matieral or quality changed, unless he got lucky. Proper torquing is important though...now one could definitely say it sounds like the Baers are particuarly sensitive to correct torque and the star pattern.

Also, heating the brakes up and then cooling them off fast will warp them. ie. getting them nice and hot and driving through a puddle or hitting them with a hose/carwash.

Baer rotors can't be worse than the ones GM use. I know alot about warping rotors, I owned a Pontiac Grand Am.

Can you use different rotors with Baer kits?

[drobin]

I have KVR's and torque specs are same as factory specs (97lbs.)

drobin
"Donald"

[Zack]

I drove around for about an hour last night with my Ceramix Pads from Napa and Im incredibly pleased with the results so far.

[Marauderman]

SO far --I have had no problems with my Baer's----me and TAF got ours the same time--gosh--don't know when that was---a long time ago--I must have 20K on mine now---and they have been perfect so far----

I just was easy on them for the first 500 and then like all other new brakes used them as usual--except these were capable of taking more --but I didn't- it could be at the beginning --having someone who knows what their doing install them---I am very thankful for Scott at Team in ALt. Ga. for that install--he knows what hes doing----anyway--the day wife had to stop at the next light when doing 100 --the Bears slowed the beast down slowly and without any problem---

Overall- I have been really easy on the brakes--maybe thats the answer to longetivity--but that appplies to everything I suppose---but even TAF spoke of mine not squeeking when his did it over a year ago ----I hope they last longer---I guess I need to check the pads--you guys got me concerned now...guess I haven't been much help here--sorry--------Tom

[BillyGman]

I drove around for about an hour last night with my Ceramix Pads from Napa and Im incredibly pleased with the results so far. Then I must have missed something in this thread, because I thought it was the Baer rotors that you were having issues with. :confused:

[Zack]

Then I must have missed something in this thread, because I thought it was the Baer rotors that you were having issues with. :confused:

I had the rotors turned and switched to the Ceramix pads.
Who knows what 5000 miles later will bring.

[John F. Russo]

Ive had it,:mad: but Im giving them one more shot.
First set of rotors warped within 5000 miles. Many calls of dis-satisfaction to Baer. They kept telling me to go through the bedding process and season them again. Blah Blah Blah. They said there was too much pad transfer on the rotor and frequent panic stops are necessary because they ARE A PERFORMANCE BRAKE. They also say these rotors cant be turned! :bs:
BS. I know when a rotor is warped. So after 6 months of them telling me no rotors were available I got a new set sent to me. They wanted me to send the old rotors back but they didnt include a return tag so I kept them. :rasta:
Now, new rotors are installed with obvious improvents in the way of more material and thicker webbing (fins). First clue I wasnt nuts for being unhappy with the first set. After installation, I broke the pads and rotors in exactly how the sheet tells you to. They seem to be fine.
Drive on this for a few thousand miles then go to Florida. Long story short, the rotors are warped when I get home from 1200 miles on the highway. Makes no sense to me. Call Baer back and get the same nonsense explanation about excessive pad transfer and panic stops burn this transfer off and correct the warped feel.
BS. :bs:
I took the rotors in to be cut and what do you know? It took .013 on each side to true them up. They are not warped, its just pad transfer! Im an **** idiot, right?
So, just had them cut again for good measure and bought Ceramix Pads from Napa. $99 over the counter. Fits 97 and newer Vettes.
Ill keep everyone updated, but this foolishness has almost been as difficult as writing this post. :censor:

I have 52000 miles on my Kenny Brown car. I had changed my rotors twice at about 10,000 miles each time because of warpage.

Baer replaced them at no charge twice. Now I driven about 25 to 30,000 miles with no problems. I have been driving the same way for 50,000 miles.

(After I wrote the above , I noticed that SergntMac mentioned my situation. Thanks Mac.)

[bob williams]

Did any one debure the slots and holes before installing, I have a vette also and did the debur treatment , breaks work great

[BillyGman]

I have 52000 miles on my Kenny Brown car. I had changed my rotors twice at about 10,000 miles each time because of warpage.

Baer replaced them at no charge twice. Now I driven about 25 to 30,000 miles with no problems. I have been driving the same way for 50,000 miles.

(After I wrote the above , I noticed that SergntMac mentioned my situation. Thanks Mac.)How long did it take Baer to replace your first set? I'm asking you this, because it's typical for them to be 12 weeks behind on their orders. :rolleyes:

[BillyGman]

Did any one debure the slots and holes before installing, I have a vette also and did the debur treatment , breaks work great Exactly what is the debur "treatment"?? I know what deburring means, but what exactly did you use to debur them? (steel wool, emery cloth, wire brush???)

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Unfortunately, the Baer brake break-in procedure is even more complicated than the one listed here in this thread. I just copied and pasted the entire laborious procedure from the Baer website in a new thread......

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25288

I know this thread is old and I felt that starting a new thread mite be a wast of space , but after reading the pros and con of this kit , I ordered and received the baer brake kit. It will be mounted very soon and have also read jdando and billy G-mans bedding procedure so when mounted will report what the results are.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/0/9/S4200001.JPG


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/0/9/BaerBigBrakekitInstall003.JPG

More Photos in the photo Gallery including the installation Procedure... :)

[Rider90]

Beautiful pictures! Keep us updated :cool:

[BillyGman]

[quote=03SILVERSTREAK]I know this thread is old and I felt that starting a new thread mite be a wast of space , but after reading the pros and con of this kit , I ordered and received the baer brake kit. It will be mounted very soon and have also read jdando and billy G-mans bedding procedure so when mounted will report what the results are.

Yeah, I bought front and back Baer brakes also for my 70 Chevelle. I hope that I didn't make a mistake by choosing them. By all means let us know how you do with them on your Marauder. I know they stop the car fantastic since I drove someone else's Marauder that had them. It's these reports of the warpage issues that has me wondering.

[shakes_26]

Billy,

I lay down a beating on the Baers on the track for two days. I beat on them on the street, at the drag track, basically all the time.
No hint of warpage. Nada. Nil, zip. I just changed the front pads over after the 2 day Sebring event, the front rotors are as true as can be.


[quote=03SILVERSTREAK]I know this thread is old and I felt that starting a new thread mite be a wast of space , but after reading the pros and con of this kit , I ordered and received the baer brake kit. It will be mounted very soon and have also read jdando and billy G-mans bedding procedure so when mounted will report what the results are.

Yeah, I bought front and back Baer brakes also for my 70 Chevelle. I hope that I didn't make a mistake by choosing them. By all means let us know how you do with them on your Marauder. I know they stop the car fantastic since I drove someone else's Marauder that had them. It's these reports of the warpage issues that has me wondering.

[MarauderTJA]

Have had my new Baer brakes on the car now for three weeks. Broke them in with just normal driving like the set previously on my Mustang. Absolutely love them and no problems what so ever.

[DEFYANT]

.....still a happy Baer customer here :D

[04MRADR]

I just hit 40,000 on my 2004 Marauder and have original brakes. I do about 80 % turnpike driving, the rest city stop and go. My brakes still look great. On my 2000 Grand Marq my mechanic insisted on ceramic brakes. That's what he uses and I can see why. They don't seem to heat up as bad. The heat up he tells me causes warping and accelerates the brake weaing problem. I will go with ceramics when the time comes. Had them on my 2000 Grand Marq until I traded it in and they were like new after many miles. Also, ceramics don't produce brake dust on the rims like asbestos brakes.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/0/9/BaerBigBrakekitInstall003.JPG

More Photos in the photo Gallery including the installation Procedure... :) Here,s another
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/0/9/BaerBigBrakekitInstall010.JPG