Always pay the fireman

[dwasson]

from: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/BREAKING01/60216004

Rural firefighters take pass on battling flames at nonpaying residence

Associated Press

Monett ? Rural firefighters stood by and watched a fire destroy a garage and a vehicle because the property owner, who was injured battling the flames, had not paid membership dues.

Monett Rural Fire Department Chief Ronnie Myers defended the policy, saying the membership-based organization could not survive if people thought the department would respond for free. The department said it will fight a fire without question if a life is believed to be in danger.

Myers said he would make an effort to explain the membership policy to the area?s new Hispanic residents after the property?s owner, Bibaldo Rueda, said he had never been told of the dues policy since moving there 1 1/2 years ago.

According to Barry County Sheriff?s Detective Robert Evenson, the fire broke out Monday on four acres owned by Rueda south of Monett, about 50 miles southwest of Springfield.

Four mobile homes and a number of vehicles were on the property. Rueda managed to get one mobile home out of the way, using a garden hose and buckets, but was burned in the process, Evenson said.

Monett Rural Fire Department responded to the scene but did not fight the fire. Firefighters stood by from the road as the fire burned itself out, watching in case the flames spread to neighboring properties owned by members.

"People need to realize you?ve got to become a member. If you live outside the city limits, you need to join one of the rural fire departments", Myers said.

Rueda offered to pay, Evenson said, but the Monett department does not have a policy for on-the-spot billing.

Nearby Cassville and Mt. Vernon have gone to tax-supported rural fire districts, following a public vote, wherein all fires are fought.

Rural Monett members have not been asked to choose between memberships and tax support, though they came out strongly against a proposed Aurora Rural Bi-County Fire Protection District, which was voted down in 2001.

[Shora]

I am not sure if that is against some type of oath or not but it should be. That fire affected people's lives and future (the burning of one's home and property) and should have been fought if at all possible. I can understand the need for money but I too believe that they have not gotten the word out properly. I believe that a waiver should be signed if you do not want to become a member but to sit on the side of the rode is just plain wrong in my humble opinion. They could have taken care of the financial costs later since the man agreed to pay.

I have great respect for those who put their lives on the line in any form and I am sure that the choice was not up to the individual firefighter. However, people are going to suffer as a result of that decision.

[Leadfoot281]

A policy like this would be nice for my local police. (no flames intended to our LEO members).

Look at it this way; "HomeTown" has a 1,500 population, three cops, two bars, and zero crime. On Fridays and Saturdays they circle the bar and pull over every car that has been there more than a couple hours.

Can you say entrapment?

As far as those firefighters go, I'll bet that they'd fight like heck to save their own garage, "fees" paid or not. There's one way to find out...wink, wink.:D

[PDMarauder]

good screw em. im a volunteer FF where i live and these people cant even donate $3-5 for a job that we do endlessly for free. I go on my fund drive walk wasting god knows how mnay hours of my summer to have people say, " O, i gave my son 5 dollars for lunch and that was all i had" (meanwhile shes about 60) can you come back tomorrow? same story or another one. i could go on endlessly with the excuses, and its not a poor town. if you live here you can spare 5 bucks. the annual taxes are around $8500+

[Hotrauder]

Sounds like a mafia protection plan. Pay or your place burns. How long would it take you to vote for the consolidated pro fire dept. No volunteer pyromaniacs need apply. WTF is a volunteer? I fight fire only if paid? I must be missing the point somewhere here. I grew up in a small town in Maine. If there was an emergency EVERYONE showed up and when there was a fund raiser everyone pitched in. I don't every remember anything as dispicable as standing around watching a neighbrors property burn. I'm sorry but that is just to assinine for words. I am glad I don't live in that sick town and glad I don't have neighbors who think this sort of outrage is ok. Dennis

[MarauderMarc]

That is sick. This is America where we are supposed to be protected and our well being maintained by our goverment. In the time they spent watching the fire, which was longer than putting the thing out, they could have saved alot of the property. I love my country, but it does need some fine tuning.

[PDMarauder]

o yeah i completely agree that they should not have watched and let it burn and probably no dept would ddo this except for that one. i was just saying that these cheap people need to buck up when it comes to a one time donation to be who do things for free with no hesitation.

As for dennis, i think you should expand your knowledge a little bi if you do not know what a volunteer fire dept is. The firehouses and fire appartus are 5 times better then the ones you will see in a paid department and theyare not pyromaniacs. On top of this, 87.4% of the United States' fire and ems protection is provided b volunteers. Your town/city may be volunteer and u may just not know it causse they do just as good of a job as paid.

Unless you live in the big city of tampa, your dept is probably vol.

[Mike Poore]

.......... Monett Rural Fire Department responded to the scene but did not fight the fire. Firefighters stood by from the road as the fire burned itself out, watching in case the flames spread to neighboring properties owned by members.

I call it this way. .........If ,it is in fact, true.

The fire chief should be charged with failing to exercise his duty to fight the fire, and jailed. Mr. Rueda should be awarded all the assets of the fire company, and it should be disbanded, and it's charter revoked.

Also, I suspect there will be federal charges pending, claiming the fire company's actions were racially motivated.

[hitchhiker]

I am going to withhold the comment I want to make here.

I will say however, it would centainly more than PO any VFF's out there with policies like this!

:mad2:

[mclemore102]

I agree with most of the statements above about putting the fire out. I am a full time firefighter and our dept. receives no tax money. So we operate off subscription too. And we work like this: It's a $100yr to subscribe. And if we get a call from 911 we have to respond and put out the fire. If your not a paid subscriber and it's a structure fire then you will get a bill for $2000 for the first hour and $1000 for each additional hour were there. That's how we work.

[MarauderMarc]

Wow. Its a shame that we get charged huge bucks to get the help we NEED. 5000.00 to put a fire out AFTER they have already lost everything? Its just like medical expenses and all the polotics relating to that field. For being an American and paying 20% of my income to Uncle Sam, and then paying more taxes when I purchase goods, I should be hooked up fully!

[grampaws]

That is just rotten!! If a neighbour needed help even complete
strangers,I would try to assist them..and sort out any details
later..

[Hotrauder]

o yeah i completely agree that they should not have watched and let it burn and probably no dept would ddo this except for that one. i was just saying that these cheap people need to buck up when it comes to a one time donation to be who do things for free with no hesitation.

As for dennis, i think you should expand your knowledge a little bi if you do not know what a volunteer fire dept is. The firehouses and fire appartus are 5 times better then the ones you will see in a paid department and theyare not pyromaniacs. On top of this, 87.4% of the United States' fire and ems protection is provided b volunteers. Your town/city may be volunteer and u may just not know it causse they do just as good of a job as paid.

Unless you live in the big city of tampa, your dept is probably vol.

I know exactly what a volunteer fire dept should be and these morons you are supporting are not that. My Dad, My brother, my Father in law and I all have been members of volunteer fire departments in different parts of the country and not one of them exibited this criminal behavior. I don't for a minute think that yours would either. I agree that financial support for the Firemen is important and everyone I know agrees. Any fireman who isn't a pyro would not stand by and admire a fire destroying someones house. Dennis

[jgc61sr2002]

That's unbelieveable that a VFD would stand by and watch a building burn if the owner didn't support them.

Our local VFD recieves funds from the property taxes.
They also ask for a yearly donation and suggest 10 cents per day ($36.50).
That sounds reasonable for the job they do.

[glassman99]

Sorry, I have not read anything above this but this is BS. BS. BS BS. If this is not clear, ask me.

[txmarauder]

You guys are not looking at the big picture. What if a volunteer gets hurt. We lost 2 guys years back who volunteer on the side with another department and while working on that department they got killed fighting a church fire. The volunteer dept would not pay for their costs because the church was abandoned and was not paying for coverage. The dept i work for paid for their funeral but because they were volunteering at the time they were killed the paid department could not pay the families the benifits. The main rule is safety, some of us forget that when people need help. Maybe the policy for this department is that you are covered in case of injury or death but only if the incident was with a contributing party. If you really think about it would you risk your family being husband or fatherless for something that was just material when their was no life in harms way.

[Bluerauder]

Rural firefighters take pass on battling flames at nonpaying residence.
This is really a step back in time. This is the way firefighting was handled back in the 1700's. In fact, in Philadelphia (where Ben Franklin started the first professional fire department) there are still some bronze plaques over many of the house doors in the Independence Hall, Chestnut St., Walnut St., and Society Hill section. These plaques were sold by competing fire departments to indicate who had paid their fire "insurance" dues. Didn't know anywhere still did it this way after nearly 250-300 years.

That said ... (and I come from a long BCFD history) ... if that is the standard practice in that locality, then I have no sympathy for the owner. It was a calculated risk that they gambled on and lost. Same goes for life insurance, health insurance, flood insurance, and car insurance. There ain't no "free" fire departments and if local taxes don't support the service, it has to be paid for somehow. The membership method has precedent in history.

The story is sad ... but folks should not expect to get something for nothing. Ignorance is no excuse. IMHO. :soapbox:

[MarauderMarc]

So the issue is money. I see. The root of all evil. If you are poor, dont expect good medical coverage, legal coverage, AND by all means dont expect fire coverage. If you become a Firefighter, Policeman, Army, ect., you are agreeing to put your life on the line for anybody in the time of need. End of story. Money or not. Canada is beginning to look more and more like the place to live.

[txmarauder]

So the issue is money. I see. The root of all evil. If you are poor, dont expect good medical coverage, legal coverage, AND by all means dont expect fire coverage. If you become a Firefighter, Policeman, Army, ect., you are agreeing to put your life on the line for anybody in the time of need. End of story. Money or not. Canada is beginning to look more and more like the place to live.

If that is how you feel then please move, You will never find a REAL firefighter who will put their life on the line for material goods. Now if their is a civilian life in danger than we will unless we know we wont make it out alive. When that happens we just have to remember all the lives we can save in the future instead of trying to save a life already lost. Your way of thinking is what gets firefighters, cops and soldiers killed, remember there is a difference between being a hero and being stupid.

[MarauderMarc]

If that is how you feel then please move, You will never find a REAL firefighter who will put their life on the line for material goods. Now if their is a civilian life in danger than we will unless we know we wont make it out alive. When that happens we just have to remember all the lives we can save in the future instead of trying to save a life already lost. Your way of thinking is what gets firefighters, cops and soldiers killed, remember there is a difference between being a hero and being stupid.

Wow. The politics of my own personal safety, gotta love it. Im not talking about material goods, but centimental, maybe even goods that keep the family alive, like food, clothing, bedding, ect. If it can be saved WITHOUT risk of dying, then whats the problem? A firfighter is not only a life saver, but is trained to PUT OUT fires. I bet if it was their friends house, and they forgot to pay their dues, they would have put it out. Its all about politics, money, and in this case, possible racial profiling. Sounds like this department needs a few fundraisers, and a few consecutive weeks standing on the corner with a boot. Its easy to sit there and defend them when it wasnt YOUR stuff on fire. The guy even offered to pay right then and there because he had no clue about the dues. Just think if that was you and your garage was on fire with your MM in it and a savable fire was being spectated by an entire department instead of puting the fire out because of some $$$. :shake:

Now Im not trying to start a war or a feud, Im just expressing my opinion and having a grown up debate. This is not in any way me reflecting personal views to anyone opposing my opinions. We are all different people with different minds that dont think alike. Outside this debate we are all friends with the same hobby.

[txmarauder]

From the post it is hard to tell at what stage the fire was at. That being said if it was a trash can fire and the fire dept just stood their until the trailor burn to the ground, then yes a little work could have saved alot. But if when they got on scene the and the house was already at a stage of a total loss then our job is to protect lives first then any structures around the fire from becoming involved. The job of a firefighter is #1 to save lives then property. In this case it was a mobile home which has nothing to do with the price but the fact that more and dangerous materials are used in mobile homes which makes a fire more dangerous and harder to put out. The roof structure of a mobile home will not hold up to a fire as long as a wood constructed house. So depending on when they got there it might not have been safe to go in and if they were to shoot water from the outside they WILL have pushed the fire through the structure as well as knocking down the walls in the process as well as possibly catching another home on fire. You also have to realize that the news and papers never get their facts straight and always point fingers. That is what keeps people watching and reading the news it makes it interesting. Like the article said he lived there over a year and a half and if the fire was close enough to the other homes to protect them then i am sure his neighbors talked to him at one time or another about how the fire dept works in his area. For him to want to pay for service when he needs it isnt fair if so i will cancel my car insurrance and only pay when i get into an accident. And who knows, maybe the homes they were protecting were not contributing either maybe the news just assumed they were when in fact they were savable unlike maybe his. Keepsakes are hard to lose but when ever you hear about somebody losing the car or home the main concern from everyone is their health and wellbeing. There are alot of unanswered ?s but if he had insurrance he will be ok in time. I do whatever i can to help in incidents but i and my officer will NEVER risk our lives for something that cant be saved.

[hitchhiker]

So the issue is money. I see. The root of all evil. If you are poor, dont expect good medical coverage, legal coverage, AND by all means dont expect fire coverage. If you become a Firefighter, Policeman, Army, ect., you are agreeing to put your life on the line for anybody in the time of need. End of story. Money or not. Canada is beginning to look more and more like the place to live.

When you move to Canada, are you selling your Marauder?

:D

[dwasson]

Wow. The politics of my own personal safety, gotta love it. Im not talking about material goods, but centimental, maybe even goods that keep the family alive, like food, clothing, bedding, ect. If it can be saved WITHOUT risk of dying, then whats the problem? A firfighter is not only a life saver, but is trained to PUT OUT fires. I bet if it was their friends house, and they forgot to pay their dues, they would have put it out.

Everytime three people get together there is politics. And, as I repeat constantly, Your need does not impose a duty on someone else. And you're right, if it was their friend's house they may have decided to fight the fire. They wouldn't have had to though.

Life is about contracts, explicit and implied. There was no contract between this homeowner and the fire department. There was no contract made that required the firefighters to risk, death, injury, or even a small blister, for this homeowner. And the reason is, the homeowner didn't pay his dues.

If the firefighters would put out fires for someone who doesn't pay his dues, how difficult would it be to collect dues in the future? If the citizens of the area are unhappy with this situation they can change it. If not enough of them are upset enough, the concerned people can move.

If you think that you can move to Canada and not pay your share you are in for a shock. The level of taxation in Canada is higher than in the US. I guess that is how the Canadians want it.

[Bluerauder]

If the citizens of the area are unhappy with this situation they can change it. If not enough of them are upset enough, the concerned people can move.

It would appear that the citizens of Monett are happy with the fire membership system the way it is right now ....


Nearby Cassville and Mt. Vernon have gone to tax-supported rural fire districts, following a public vote, wherein all fires are fought.

Rural Monett members have not been asked to choose between memberships and tax support, though they came out strongly against a proposed Aurora Rural Bi-County Fire Protection District, which was voted down in 2001.

[DEFYANT]

:) :pimp: :drink: :popcorn:



:beatnik:

[PDMarauder]

back to Dennis's post, dennis sorry if i read you wrong but i completely agreed with you in the beginning and would never support the free burning of someones property. i kinda just meant like they should have paid but either way they should got protection.

Anyway i think everybody is right on here in their own way, cause theres a 100 ways to put it into perspective. TXmarauder hit it on the head with the fact it could just be a media issue etc. A) the house couldve been fully involved upon arrival and the dept did nothing but prtect surroudning houses, B) the fire dept is completely wrong and should pay the price, not the FFs but the chiefs office. etc etc etc....

[MarauderMarc]

As I said before, this is only a difference of opinion to me. I dont think differently towards anyone with opposing views. I wasnt really serious about Canada, it was something I toyed with a few times, but I hate the cold. Plus I love my 9mm. There are a lot of possible variables to the story, so to make a final judgement according to what the stupid media tells us is dumb. Guys I love you all, even if we dont all agree on the same thing. Thats the beauty of individuality.